Enlightenment & Transcendence

[Cognisant]

As commonly explored in fiction an enlightenment (as there are many variations on the theme) is an epiphany which brings about some manner of change in the one who is enlightened which changes how they interact with the world, which in turn brings about the resolution of the conflict/dilemma that the story's plot revolved around.

A simplistic example would be a shōnen manga protagonist getting some manner of power-up from realizing their hidden potential, solving a riddle in their master's teachings, reaffirming their motivations through the bullshit power of friendship, etc. Generally speaking the better justified this power-up is the more seriously the story takes itself and the less like "a stupid cartoon for children" it seems. The weighted clothing in Naruto and DBZ are quite silly, the restraint levels in Hellsing are only slightly less silly, Luke Skywalker having the fortitude and insight to stop playing the emperor's game was ingenious.

Both Sidious and Darth Vader could have killed him easily but by refusing to fight Vader he forced Sidious to take matters into his own hands, he knew if father and son had time to talk things out Luke would eventually turn Vader against him which is exactly what happened. What Sidious didn't realize was that Vader was willing to sacrifice himself to save his son, so from the moment Luke refused to fight he was screwed. Luke's epiphany was realizing that he didn't need to defeat the emperor, rather that it was a fundamentally a philosophical conflict so it was never really about winning the war, to defeat Sidious all he has to do is win the debate.

I think this is a fantastic example of enlightenment being the deciding factor in a protagonist's victory over adversity and if there is such a thing as real enlightenment I expect that's what it will be, not a key that unlocks your untapped power but rather the wisdom to truly understand the nature of the game being played.

Unfortunately that epiphany itself can be interpreted one of two ways, to an objectivist enlightenment is the pursuit of understanding an objective reality, whereas to a subjectivist enlightenment is transcending the limitations of what was supposedly reality. In the movie The Matrix it seems Neo's incredible talent for bending the matrix to his will is because he's accepting what everyone else is teaching him, that the matrix isn't real (which is true) but everyone else already believes that so what is it really that makes him so special?

I'd argue it's the fact that unlike Morpheus for whom the unreality of the matrix is akin to a religious belief, Neo's epiphany stems from a place of understanding, he's a software developer who just found out the entire world he knew is actually software running on a computer. As a programmer himself he's attacking it in ways more sophisticated than simply willing it to do what he wants, this is what it actually means when he can see the code, it's not that he's just that fucking special it's that he actually understands what he's seeing beyond the surface level of what it's meant to represent.

Granted it's just a fictional universe and that's just my personal theory, but it makes sense doesn't it?

Going back to reality again it makes sense that a true all encompassing enlightenment isn't just going to be an epiphany or even a series of epiphanies, it will require an incredible depth of understanding and profundity of wisdom. Likewise the goal of transcendence (from the limitations of the human condition) isn't simply a prize to be won when you guess the right answer, it's something that will require an enormous amount of effort. If you want to make a sword it's not enough to know metallurgy and blacksmithing techniques you actually need to put that knowledge into practice and practice it until you're good at it and only then through blood sweat and tears will you actually be able to make something of merit.

I've neglected to give an in-depth explanation of what being transcended means but it's late and I have work tomorrow.

 

[Black Rose]

I saw the white light once. and the gold figure. and the maiden.

enlightenment comes from the heart. it is profound love.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

In a sense I see some elements that are common between say Matrix and Shonen media.

• Awareness
  • Environment
  • Self
• Integration
  • With the self
  • Integrating with the environment
  • The environment with the self
• Experimentation
  • Risk
  • Leveraging

The media you seem to like are def more nuanced and are thematically linked with the story very well.
Shonen on the other hand, well, the outright/explicitly represent these things visually and verbally every couple seconds. That DBZ, Zenkai boost was a weird addition that every anime has if we're being honest. The writers must have had a transcending moment when they outright leveraged the fact that they were a warrior race and just multiplied the bullshit trope with their senzu beans/other healing thingys.

 

[Cognisant]

I think fiction informs our perception of reality and in that regard poorly written fiction can be harmful.

The idea that enlightenment can be a paradigm changer that makes success come easy is harmful in that it tells people if success isn't easy then they haven't reached enlightenment yet, so they pursue enlightenment instead of success. You see this is multi-level-marketing schemes like Amway which offer people the opportunity to run their own business (when really they're a sales rep for Amway) and people fall for it because they lack belief in themselves.

They don't want to source their own products, make their own brand, manage their own logistics or come up with their own business plan, they just do what Amway tells them, while constantly consuming Amway's "motivational" media. Which is all about how they need to push the business and sell the product and how some people have become successful through Amway and it's all a matter of motivation and perseverance, basically "you're not enlightened yet but if you keep doing what we tell you then one day you will be".

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Yeah, something I thought about when it comes to inventing anything. You have to invent two things minimum.

You need invent the thing, and the thing that makes sure you use the thing. This of course is a endless causal chain so, yeah. At what point you can actually apply what youve initially created is extremely murky.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Kinda non descript, this whole process (creating/enlightening) is very much excluded from most media. Tbh this is why I've liked most Marvel content until recently, they were extremely nuanced. I thought that the climactic end of the infinity saga was just convoluted because it was the ending and they wanted to attract everyone. Those movies need the opposite of a directors cut.

 

[ZenRaiden]

If I had money I would be considered successful.

That simple. Trouble is matrix and transcendental stuff tries to address people in non material realm.

Non material success is seen as dumb, since its not possible to measure by convention.

Neo is trying to reconcile both material and spiritual value of humans.

We as humans no longer value our life on material alone.

Even in India thousands of years ago people did not.

Humans are more than a pay check.

If Neo wanted to be just another guy he would keep his job, he would not pick up the phone and sit in his cubicle and then later in movie open up a software firm.

Prior to matrix there was movie office space.

This movie illustrated well how people are trapped in jobs that make zilch sense and give them zero relief or pleasure of success.

Even though everyone in office space was successful, the job it self was soul sucking, spirit destroying experience.

Its not a spiritual crisis either. Its common sense. Sitting in cubicle is boring. Your like a vegetable sitting there pressing buttons and looking at reports for god knows what purpose and you have a clueless boss who makes a already terrible job even worse.

Yet most people in non western world would take a job like that instead of slavery in a heart beat.

The spiritual crisis of Neo is even though he wants to go beyond mere material he does not know what it means, how to do it, why even do it, and he has no justification.

Its not even a tenable position.

The thing is most humans are material existentialist.

They acquire money and status and die. AND THEY ARE FUCKING HAPPY>

I mean why not be happy with that.

But I tell you why not be happy. Because these people never reach their true potential. They don't like it. They like it more than being poor, but realistically they don't even put 40 percent of their energy into it.

We live in a world where wealth is easy to achieve and living is easy.

Yes we tend to convoluted job hunting and make interviews into ritualistic psycho trillers, but they are just glorified rites of passage to see if you can take it up the ass and not complain too much.

Your not successful if you can make it through idiotic interviews and shift papers.
Its soul sucking bullshit. Its not bad either. But its hardly something that makes humans happy. Not unless you convince yourself that this is the way to live.

Realistically guys like Waren Buffet are just super intelligent specialist.
He is a old man sitting in his room doing boring work all day. No different from you sitting in cubicle. Only he does the work for his own portfolio and knows financial theory enough to make billions.

But his life is so boring that he is one out of seven billion people who can take the boredom and trouble of reading pages and pages of numbers and try to make sense of them. He is happy, but no one else would be happy in his shoes.

Some people would probably rather commit suicide than live like him.
That is what makes him so rich and makes most people avoid doing such work even if their life depended on it.

Realistically humans are more than material wealth.

Humans are non divisible sum of all experiences good and bad, unique and mundane.

Thus to transcend means to go beyond mere job. It means to reconcile the inner world that dreams in everyone with the world, but its not possible to do it with money or sex or giving someone a present on Christmas.

Now for many this sounds like narcissistic self absorbed bull.
It very well mean that in some cases.

But for me, and I am optimist I do believe there is value in humans that goes beyond trivial existence. And I think if thousands years of human history have something to say anything about this its true.

Its not about just spiritual, or religious or dogmatic pursuit of metaphysical.

Its the values we have inside us that we never tap into because of materialistic and social constrains we put on ourselves and we torture ourselves with trivial existence and expectations even though we don't have to.

I mean take office space for example. Why is the boss such a dick. He could be a nice guy and help everyone in the office, they could all do their jobs and fuck off and go home to their families and have nice time.

Instead the boss represents the spiritual crisis. He has nothing. So he creates needless drama and evil to justify his own importance.

This is spiritual crisis in practice. People don't see their own real value so they create a plane of existence where its all about progress reports and data and files and bull.
Everyone knows it has to be done, and everyone knows he is the boss. So what?
So nothing. At the end of the day he is the same boss, just more of a jerk, because his position justifies it.

Realistically humans don't need much justification to be jerks.

Think about anytime of the day you were a jerk and look at the real reasons.

Probably very little needs to be said as to why you were in that moment a jerk.
Sometimes we don't even know we are jerks.
Sometimes we are jerks, because we learn to automatically respond to situations.

The only difference between intelligent jerk and stupid jerk is that intelligent jerk will find a more intelligent way to be jerk. But even dolphins act like jerks even though they are pretty intelligent.

But putting jerkness aside since its not that important look at life as is.

At the end if you put your life on piece of paper and write down what happened you cannot capture the essence of life. If by chance you can put down essence of your life on piece of paper or into a book then you are not much different than a piece of rock.

Human subjective experience is not quantifiable, it has no immediate purpose and it definitely does not make your parents or teachers or your boss happy.

However it is the essence that makes you the person you are and one day that subjective thing is something that will change the way you see things, do things, think about things and have impact in the material world.

Exactly the world people so much value. But you cannot transcend to those higher values of subjective and materialzing them by following traditional paths that are commonly seen as the proper path to success. Those are trivial paths, albeit visible and objective.

The trouble is no one can tell you what those subjective values are. You have to figure out them for yourself.

Unfortunately no one else, but you care. That is why there is this inner struggle a inner battle between you and the machines. Those who do not see the matrix.

Capiche.

 

[ZenRaiden]

 

[ZenRaiden]

Also we are already entering a world where material possessions will be really not useful. If for example we have replicators we will replicate food and material.

What will people do then. How will people organize in hierarchies, who will be the big boss then. Who will be rich. How are we going to decide what takes priority.
What jobs are important. Who gets what pay?

Not even communist have answer for that other than peace and harmony in life. Which is a hippy clique favored by the communist anarchist.

 

[Black Rose]

Peace of mind. The middle way. This is what Buddhist enlightenment is.

People wonder if there is more to life than the dull and mundane.

They want more.

 

[ZenRaiden]

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I think we're still a long way off from breaking entropy, a la creating/destroying matter. We would still need some sort of material to start with, even with plants and microbes we need dirt and worms with nutrients, no to mention the sun. And much like copper and gold are highly efficient for transferring (conducting) electricity yet trash at being durable, certain materials will be better at certain things. I have no idea how such a market where we buy "food glue" and "compost sauce" would work. Vital and rarer nutrients like Sodium would def be at the center of it. I don't think we'll be 3D printing meat for a while.

I think being intelligent correlates with not having to depend on others. I do know that intelligence does correlate with compassion, but these don't contradict each other.

If you don't have to depend on others, you likely don't have to think about them too much, especially with how they see the world because that supposedly is the opposite of what an intelligent person wants to do. Dolphins being the indisputable alpha predator of their environment likely engage (much like humans) in fucked up shit to amuse themselves. They'll experiment to see if they like it, and if they do, they'll do it again. It's how skateboarding and killing small animals leads to skateboarders and serial killers. This is just a rationalization of course.

They say a busy mind is a happy mind. People's subjective objective I think is what fucks them up. They have a highly unattainable goal in mind and see that as their only way to get what they value. I think setting adjacent and skill building goals that will incidently help them move closer to their goal is the key.

 

[ZenRaiden]

The replicator was hypothetical. Having a car worth milion will not change the fact its a box on wheels.
I think what drives rich people is hardwired status seeking and aggressive reasource managmet which is not bad, but those who are like that have no brake fluid in this traits. Certain type of wealth is justifiable, but still middle class is too rich already.
Human value no longer has material connection. We are system dependent, but values of system are man made make belief poppycock.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

I now believe that a different approach needs to be taken when considering what is "transcendental".

Realistically, an individual can only be transcendental to their past selves. Then of course the words are meaningless in that context.

What one is actually talking about there is efficacy.

The brain uses different neurons when using a new tool vs using a tool they are very familiar with. One interpretation is that the brain starts to see the tool as an extension of itself. As if it were to have ownership of it beyond possession.

We can increase efficaciousness concerning certain things, but really we are just adding extensions and better integrating something in the environment or ourselves to ourselves.

So technology, in that sense, is by which we can transcend, but at that is only until we change our behavior. Trancendence is a state that one must expend energy to maintain, and even this can just be simplified into improving ones efficacy about something.

On the feeling of enlightenment, I guess I would refer to the etymology. Our vision is obscured or we feel like there is a load atop of us, and transcendence whatever that is, gives us some illusion of control.

Jung's individuation is not necessarily transcendence then right? It is transcending some awareness sure, which possibly allows us the opportunity to act on this awareness, but it all goes back to efficacy.

 

[Black Rose]

We inhibit ourselves because of our conditioning.

If we could let go we would be free of reactivity, and robot responses to stimuli.

We would not be in control but neither would our impulses.

Only our ability to direct attention would greatly increase.

Thought would not be random but quiet and non-emotional.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

If we could let go we would be free of reactivity, and robot responses to stimuli.

In the sense that we are automatons, we are not simply procedural. We are generative. Procedural with extra steps? We are kinda made off of smaller automatons put together I guess. The sum of these parts is what makes the total output "intelligent".

I suppose this is where the use of wild hypotheticals comes from. It's like a simulation that prepares us for a scenario that we may not be ready for. So many people don't know how to pose a good question though, and for good reason.

 

[Black Rose]

generative being recurrent
procedural being feedforward

The first we can learn new things nonlinearly the second is not adaptive.

We respond the same way to what has happened we never can see that by acting differently we can get different results.

emotion is what hard codes our responses.

so if we want to change we need to change our emotions.

(when something isn't working do something different)

(plan to a certain depth)

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Love this channel, but they haven't gotten me to click on any of their videos. Oof