ENFP- thoughts and behaviour

[Minuend]

So I was writing a PM to @ayn about being an ENFP, but it got so long and I realized hearing from other ENFPs would be interesting as well. So I'm making a thread about ENFPs.

@Auburn might object to some things, though, I just pick up bits of understanding here and there, I haven't really studied it too much.

This is how it is for me:

I am an ENFP leaning on Te. Dominant Ne makes me see connections, combining the gathered facts and observations. Whenever I encounter something, I look "outwards". It's like instantly jumping up from the position I'm standing and seeing the whole map from above. I makes me hesitant, because I am always aware of disadvantages and advantages.

I always check negative consequences before I act. It's difficult for me to zone in on one element, because I see the world like a giant connected cob web where you can't really pull just one string without influencing the rest of the net.

When dealing with people, I use my human related intuition (Fi is giving me feedback on this, I believe) to understand people combined with my Ne who puts everything together and the "logical" (which needn't be logical due to human error) function Te that put everything into order.

I always check my Te to see if my thoughts are valid. Logic is very important to me. I don't base my decisions and opinions on Fi (other than that it probably makes me a bit more patient with other people, makes me try to see things from their perspective because I suppose Fi is behind the desire to be have inner peace and to have a world of acceptance rather than one of prejudice. So I am biased to a end product where we can be at peace. Though, I have no problem acknowledging that everything we are, think and feel are a product of the human world, that it does not reach beyond that, there's no "right or wrong". But then again, I don't really see that as a bad thing).

Now, Se and Si are the functions I know least about. But I do enjoy physical sensations. I enjoy experiencing and taking things in, or use a quiet setting to meditate (like the garden). I can be a bit oblivious about my surroundings because I'm lost in thought. I've noticed when thinking about something, if something unusual shows up in my visual field, my brain is like "hey, hey! Look over there, there's something odd". And then my eyes kinda follow that object even though I'm not really concious of it because I'm very concentrated on my thoughts.

I share lot of traits with INTPs, like sarcasm, cynicism, need for alone time, nerd activities (from video games to science), thinking a lot- having a lot of stuff going on inside, analysing about everything, independence is very important to me etc.

More later. Uni time.

Summon:

@Dormouse @AlisaD

 

[Polaris]

My sister is a definite ENFP. You two are vastly different.

You seem to have dominant Ti. From what I have observed.

On a side note: perhaps that is conditioned. I think you are more "evolved" on the F-side of things. Perhaps that is life experience. You are an "old soul".

INTP is still my guess. INTP's can be quite different in character.

 

[Auburn]

Oh neat thread. Minuend is definitely an Ne lead but I can't say with full certainty what the second function is. @Minuend - the way you described your discerning functions sounds like Ti+Fe... hmmm.

I don't mean to confuse you minnie~! sowwie if i am. x.x
edit: but this thread is a good idea though. you may be able to figure it out by comparing yourself to other ENFP.

Also, summon: ^^

@speiss

 

[Cegorach]

I do mostly intend to avoid talking typology on the forum, but, as I was one of the primary individuals who suggested that you may be NeF (ENFP), I'd like to say that what I quote Auburn posting below here is actually something I do see as worthy of consideration and debate:

Oh neat thread. Minuend is definitely an Ne lead but I can't say with full certainty what the second function is. @Minuend - the way you described your discerning functions sounds like Ti+Fe... hmmm.

I'm about as certain as I can be with any pseudoscientific theoretical model that you're an Ne Dominant, but, were I in your position, I wouldn't settle too strongly on NeF based on what I've spoken of my observations alone.

It is what I consider you to be, yet I've went through enough paradigm shifts in looking at people and their types to know how easy it is to get stuck in interpreting people without enough flexibility of perspective.



I agree with Dormouse and AlisaD as excellent examples for a thread on this topic (not sure if they would agree necessarily), but hopefully you'll gather from this what is intended to be deduced by the topic. If the past is any indicator for threads involving accounts of type I wouldn't be too surprised if you see it devolving into stereotypes of how you should behave, misleading accounts of what it's like to be 'x' type from people who are mistyped (in my interpretation, at least), or members squabbling over multiple typology models that don't even mean the same thing in definition (meaning that two congruous types in title may share absolutely nothing in definition).
Perhaps that's a bit off-topic and pessimistic, however, as I do hope for the best.

 

[speiss]

I have been summoned.

Hello, Minnie dear.

Lots of what you say resonates with me as well: logic being very important, sharing the cynicism and sarcasm that typically comes along with evolved T traits, having trouble paying attention to the outside world when so deep in thought (has gotten me in trouble during gym volleyball entirely too many times). To be honest I haven't thought about my personality type in a while, even though initially, after Auburn took the liberty of speculating that I was an ENFP, I subsequently became obsessed and read up on everything there was to read up on. He totally was the cause behind a major identity crisis, he was!

Whenever I took the personality test or whatever, no matter how honest I tried to be, I always received INTP (and once ENTP). But, even though I like to think that most of my behavior consistently takes logic and reasoning into consideration, the Fi has started to turn up often since I've started taking note of it. I can speak with strangers for hours once we've met, charm them into liking me, sympathize about their problems, yet for some reason I'm very distant and, well, just terrible, really, when it comes to actually comforting others. Even very close friends!

And there's also that Ne net you mentioned earlier, which is a very nice way to put it, actually! Personally it takes me absolutely forever to make decisions. A notorious example would be when I'm faced with 30 kinds of candy to choose from in a store. Once I got so overwhelmed by all the choices in an aisle where all was candy, I got so distraught I didn't buy anything! But I like to think though that I've tamed my indecisiveness when it comes to that. Now I just default to Skittles. But yes, the Ne does have me aware of consequences, of the advantages and disadvantages ("too much chocolate makes me sick, but the larger pack of Twizzlers is a dollar more, and if I spend a dollar more then I won't be able to get Starburst, so I might as well get the M&Ms. But will I like the M&Ms as much as I would like the Twizzlers? They might last longer since there's more of them…" etc. xD).

Someone I've found my mind to be similar to, at least somewhat, since we're both Ne dominants (although he's not entirely too fond of putting himself into a definite class), is @Melkor, who is Ne+Ti (and who I summon, because it's always fun to bother him). But being an ENTP, for me, at least, seems unlikely since he can be so much crueler than I!

Something I'd also like to mention quickly are the morals of an ENFP. Like you pointed out and I agree with, there is no "right" or "wrong" or what have you, but I do find myself… having a sort of honor code, if you will, even though at first I didn't want to admit it. I can't lie. If I absolutely must I can only do it very very badly. Although I have little objection to nicking products from convenience stores (which I haven't done in years, anyway), the thought of stealing personal possessions is horrific! I don't like anyone to feel badly about themselves, and in fact even when not in their presence I like to speak nicely of others. No negativity here!

But in any case, that's my two cents for now.

 

[縱横家]

Something I'd also like to mention quickly are the morals of an ENFP. Like you pointed out and I agree with, there is no "right" or "wrong" or what have you, but I do find myself… having a sort of honor code, if you will, even though at first I didn't want to admit it. I can't lie. If I absolutely must I can only do it very very badly. Although I have little objection to nicking products from convenience stores (which I haven't done in years, anyway), the thought of stealing personal possessions is horrific! I don't like anyone to feel badly about themselves, and in fact even when not in their presence I like to speak nicely of others. No negativity here!

I've noticed that in (definite, in so far as the MBTI model has any applicability) ENFPs, as well. Would it be accurate to say that it's more of a natural code with subconscious gravity, rather than something you make any particular effort to adhere to?

I've also noticed that it seems to be able to co-exist with extreme immorality, nastiness and cruelness. It seems to arise with other behaviours, impacting the overall behavioural patterning of the person, but not necessarily shutting down anything that might seem externally contradictory to it.

So a person can be unable to lie whilst being riddled with dishonesty, and wreaking the effects of that dishonesty on others around them. They can be unable to lie whilst not acting at all kindly-- their inability to lie just determines the way in which their cruelty expresses itself. It's more like a physical reflex, inextricably tied up with a deep inner well of feeling (Fi), than something which is virtuous or consistent by external and conscious standards of honour and virtue.

I'm not attacking it-- I find it unutterably beautiful. But I'd be interested to see how that description of how functions seem from the outside matches up with ENFPs' experience of them.

And there's also that Ne net you mentioned earlier, which is a very nice way to put it, actually! Personally it takes me absolutely forever to make decisions. A notorious example would be when I'm faced with 30 kinds of candy to choose from in a store. Once I got so overwhelmed by all the choices in an aisle where all was candy, I got so distraught I didn't buy anything! But I like to think though that I've tamed my indecisiveness when it comes to that. Now I just default to Skittles. But yes, the Ne does have me aware of consequences, of the advantages and disadvantages ("too much chocolate makes me sick, but the larger pack of Twizzlers is a dollar more, and if I spend a dollar more then I won't be able to get Starburst, so I might as well get the M&Ms. But will I like the M&Ms as much as I would like the Twizzlers? They might last longer since there's more of them…" etc. xD).

Something else to watch for with this (although it might only be at certain ages, or in stressful situations) is Te kicking in and overcompensating massively. The deep feeling of Fi combined with the indecisiveness of Ne is pretty paralysing-- it has an air of freezing in headlights, or failing to perform duties in battle, about it-- and I think some ENFPs react to that by over-assertive and inaccurate blunt-force-trauma use of their tertiary.

Tangibly, that comes across as combining the coldness of Te with unreasonableness and a deliberate severance of empathy. Tertiary is meant to down-regulate secondary, anyway, isn't it? I guess the shutting down of empathy would make sense, then. But it can make for a very imbalanced form of action.

----

And, also: I've noticed a kind of... well, vampirism... in ENFPs. Particularly if their Fi/Si functions are processing a lot of trauma, or run deep. Ne can act as a kind of escape route from their desolation. And Ne can perhaps act as an escape route from its own paralysis of possibilities in these cases. Essentially, the ENFP latches onto another person or group or culture, treating them as if they were ultimate reality, all that mattered. They drink them in, escaping from their own internal paralysis through them, mirroring (and... elaborating upon them) beautifully with their Ne. Focusing on the form life takes in another, physical, embodied being also mitigates the scattered-indecisiveness which Ne can afflict an ENFP with, particularly if it's operating in conjunction with a damaged or chaotic Fi/Si. I guess, also, that the model would put an emphasis on this kind of hyper-intense use of Ne as likely to occur in reaction to traumatic or scarred Si (given that primary and inferior counteract one another), which does match with my experience...

This kind of takes the 'drinking in', 'absorbing everything' orientation that comes through in wide Ne-eyes to another level. As though it were trying to fill the hole that had been ripped in their heart by the pain of life, and its violation of what would satisfy their expectations (as coloured/processed by Fi).

I think?

p.s. This is one reason why we typology being imperfect doesn't make lack of knowledge of it any less damaging. The oscillation between happy-excited Ne and traumatised-internal Si easily comes across as manic depression, and might be diagnosed as such. It would also, actually, be interesting to study how umbrella terms like 'manic depression' relate to, or operate in, different function-arrangements...

---

I've kind of focused on the darker ways ENFPs functions can work together in this post, so I'd just like to make clear that I think they can be world-shatteringly beautiful beings. And curious, and wonderful, and untarnished... and, just, redemptive for humanity generally.

 

[Dormouse]

When will you people come to terms with the fact that I'm not an ENFP?

How many more kittens must I slaughter as testament to my heartlessness? How many innocent bystanders must I carelessly skewer? I'll even denounce rainbows and sugar.

Please, I'm trying to work with you.

Spoiler

I'll describe some similarities/differences I have with the behaviours outlined in the original post, and you can come to your own conclusions.

When making decisions, I tend to fixate on one aspect of the issue. Sure, I can compile a list of advantages and disadvantages, but my choice is usually already made and I'm only working to rationalize it.

Occasionally I'll become confused and abandon my plotted course. Regret is subsequent.

I prefer to avoid dealing with people altogether, because I seem to lack the intuition observed in those more capable at interacting. Basically, I've an idea of how human connection ought to be, and since it's apparently unattainable I'll forego the affair entirely.

Conversely, I suck at being alone, simply for a lack of places to put my thoughts, which tend to linger unpleasantly when I find myself deprived of a sentient outlet.

Logic is important, obviously. I'm pretty sure our brains are calibrated to reject anything that makes no sense, and would expect that statement to be pretty universally applicable. Frivolity is still tons of fun, but it occupies a purely hypothetical realm, divorced from reality.

I'm rarely unaware of my surroundings. The birthplace of my daydreams generally lies in some strange observation.

 

[Minuend]

My sister is a definite ENFP. You two are vastly different.

You seem to have dominant Ti. From what I have observed.

On a side note: perhaps that is conditioned. I think you are more "evolved" on the F-side of things. Perhaps that is life experience. You are an "old soul".

INTP is still my guess. INTP's can be quite different in character.

Polaris ^^

Well, I do identify with the dominant Ti as well. It is only after coming to this forum I started using Ne more obviously. When I was young, I wasn't particularly good at connecting things. I never made the type of nonsensical remarks I sometimes do here, I do them very little in RL.

I am somewhat different in RL from what I am here. I am probably more quiet and calm than I give the impression of. I also restrict myself far more.

Oh neat thread. Minuend is definitely an Ne lead but I can't say with full certainty what the second function is. @Minuend - the way you described your discerning functions sounds like Ti+Fe... hmmm.

It might be because I have often read about the Ti-Fe and I relate to that :]

I don't mean to confuse you minnie~! sowwie if i am. x.x
edit: but this thread is a good idea though. you may be able to figure it out by comparing yourself to other ENFP.

But I love confusion. I love paradoxes. I like things that don't make sense but that have to be true.

I'm about as certain as I can be with any pseudoscientific theoretical model that you're an Ne Dominant, but, were I in your position, I wouldn't settle too strongly on NeF based on what I've spoken of my observations alone.

Well, I'm always open to the possibility that I am something else, but one has to start somewhere. *Places flag*

I agree with Dormouse and AlisaD as excellent examples for a thread on this topic (not sure if they would agree necessarily), but hopefully you'll gather from this what is intended to be deduced by the topic. If the past is any indicator for threads involving accounts of type I wouldn't be too surprised if you see it devolving into stereotypes of how you should behave, misleading accounts of what it's like to be 'x' type from people who are mistyped (in my interpretation, at least), or members squabbling over multiple typology models that don't even mean the same thing in definition (meaning that two congruous types in title may share absolutely nothing in definition).

Yeah, I suppose.

But I have no interest in placing myself neatly into a box and stay there. I am who I am regardless of type. But I do find the workings of the functions interesting.

-------

That was an interesting read, Speiss.

Melkor cruel?

And, also: I've noticed a kind of... well, vampirism... in ENFPs. Particularly if their Fi/Si functions are processing a lot of trauma, or run deep. Ne can act as a kind of escape route from their desolation. And Ne can perhaps act as an escape route from its own paralysis of possibilities in these cases. Essentially, the ENFP latches onto another person or group or culture, treating them as if they were ultimate reality, all that mattered. They drink them in, escaping from their own internal paralysis through them, mirroring (and... elaborating upon them) beautifully with their Ne. Focusing on the form life takes in another, physical, embodied being also mitigates the scattered-indecisiveness which Ne can afflict an ENFP with, particularly if it's operating in conjunction with a damaged or chaotic Fi/Si. I guess, also, that the model would put an emphasis on this kind of hyper-intense use of Ne as likely to occur in reaction to traumatic or scarred Si (given that primary and inferior counteract one another), which does match with my experience...

I tend to isolate and shut people out when I'm depressed. I avoid people all together. I'm always aware of the give and take in any relationships, I do not accept the scale tipping over in anyone's favour. It has to be balanced. I do not feel like being with other people unless I have a reason to, so to speak. If I've been with the person I live together all day, I retreat to my room at night. I never attempt to tag along other people all the time, that rather drains me. I need my alone time.

When will you people come to terms with the fact that I'm not an ENFP?

What are you then, dear?

 

[Dormouse]

What are you then, dear?

As an honourary unicorn, I'm obviously obliged to remain strictly imaginary, and my personality likewise.

If I was forced at spear-point to make a choice, ISTJ.

I feel like I'm failing to contribute to this thread, so let's ramble!

I've known a few ENFPs. Probably more than a few, but my methods of identification are pretty terrible. Generally, I only notice the glowing happy ones, partially because content people are easier to type but also because a confident ENFP is pretty distinguishable. I'd call them magnetic, but it's less of a draw and more of an outflow, this invigorating stream of refreshing thought. Still fairly self-contained, but at ease with interactions and able to spring between topics. Less manic and outwardly twitchy than an ESFP, kinder and more expressive than an ENTP.

This is a pretty stereotyped ideal, and honestly, I can't even verify these types, but it's a pretty apt description of the people who immediately impress me as ENFPs.

 

[ElvenVeil]

Getting something down here quickly, as I have to get moving in 5 minutes..

TLDR version of my thoughts: You are not an ENFP with focus on Te.. Doesn't make any sense. As you rely more on Thinking than feeling, that would clearly suggest that you are T and not F. The things you describe as Te doesn't sound like Te in any clear way. You do second guess loop a lot (you are actually considering ENFP) and that is very common amongst Ti.

So focus on Ti, I would say. ESTP, ISTP, ENTP, INTP. From here, and this is purely speculations on my behalf, I would say that you are an introvert.

ISTP or INTP ? Don't go about speculating too much on types that seem far fetched. You obviously have more in common with INTP than ENFP.
Gotta run I will perhaps be back later, if what I have written just now had any relevance.

 

[AlisaD]

You rang?
I don't really know much about the whole typing thing, I've tested a few times, always got INTP, but apparently the tests are no measure of actual type, so... I don't know.
It's very hard to tell, most of the time I feel like I have multiple personalities, and that at any given situation, the least lazy one takes over. I suppose a story I wrote a while ago describes the core of how I see myself best, so if you have the time, give it a read. Not sure if that will be any help with the whole typing thing, though It's kinda longish too

Spoiler

I landed on a forest clearing; it was right in the middle of the woods, the woods were right in the middle of what the new part of the world considered to be the old part of the world. The ancient part of the world was too tired or too wise to argue. The planet seemed strange and beautiful. Everything seemed new and I had no recollection of where I came from and no idea where I was headed, so I stayed.
I never wanted to change the world. I found it so beautiful and so horrible, and the world’s workings so unintelligible that moving the smallest pebble in a stream seemed like it could cause a flood of blood to overtake the Earth. Strangely, it also seemed like raising a revolution would change nothing.
I was happy to walk and watch.
What I saw was that everyone was looking for something. Everyone here seemed to be on a quest. Looking for excitement. Looking for safety. Looking for love. Looking for a family. Looking to belong. Looking for freedom. Looking for meaning. Looking for faith. Looking for knowledge. Looking for a sense of purpose. Looking. Always looking.
And I – I looked at them. I looked at you. I became them. I became you. I looked for... I looked for all of it.
I’d feel excitement diving off high cliffs into the cool of the sea. Soon enough, I’d be back inside, and the feeling would fade.
I’d feel safe walking trough the night wearing big, steal toe cap boots. Soon enough, I’d get into my office and the feeling would fade.
I’d feel love looking at Steve’s eyes. Soon enough, I’d have to face the fact that if I have nothing but love I will drain him and destroy what could be amazing.
I’d feel like I found a family when we would have breakfast together and do nothing. Soon enough, I’d feel trapped by it.
I’d feel like I belong when among close friends who could laugh at me without offending me. Soon enough I’d long for solitude.
I’d get a glimpse of freedom in that wonderful feeling you get while leaving your flat on a sunny Saturday afternoon, knowing the next two days are yours alone. Soon enough, Monday would come.
I’d get a sense of meaning looking at a blue sky and bright colours and crossroads. Soon enough, I’d be looking at charts on a computer screen, giving meaning to numbers that meant nothing to me.
I’d feel faith looking at people who said they believed. But I could believe in anything. It was the same as believing in nothing.
I’d find knowledge and see it’s faulty, then search again.
I’d get a sense of purpose after setting a goal. I’d get bored by it in a day.
I was human.
It was ridiculous. I tried to walk this path. I tried to do what I was told was rational. I sat in my office, I earned my pay. It was stupid.

We are told so many things as we start out in this life.
Be proper. Things matter. What is out is more important than what is in.
It is all wrong.
See, I could write for days and days about what I learned and what was so wrong. But you see, it’s boring and makes me depressed. Almost everything anyone told me so far was wrong to some extent.
All I have figured out to be right is that what ever I figure out to be right today, turns out to be wrong tomorrow.
What I have also realized is that the truth is always relative. That all always changes. Nothing remains the same. That sleep is redundant. That humans can do so much more then they believe than can, if they believe they can.
That I am not the changer of worlds.
That I dare not influence them. That good ideas turn into disaster. That I am paralysed by fear of responsibility. And fear of my own inadequacy.
That I am more then they could ever believe I am.
I was angry. I was sad. I was looking for a way to run. For a place to run to. So many roads diverge in this yellow wood. The thing I realized was that the only way to be the one traveller is to travel them all.

So, there is no failure.
No fear.
No good or bad.
Only Maya. It is all just illusions. I am not wise enough to see trough them. I do it for a while and then forget.
But there is nothing wrong with forgetting.
There’s nothing wrong with anything.
There’s nothing wrong.
No future.
No past.
No present between them.
All is always there and we spend so much time worrying about things that surely don’t exist. We miss out on enjoying so much because we think it is wrong, or that it might harm this future, or that it was harmful in the past, when effectively future doesn’t exist, and the past does not exist. Some claim that present is all that’s real. But that’s just ridiculous. The existence of present automatically presumes the existence of past and future, these people are simply proposing they be ignored.
What is there then? No time as a straight line you move on. No space with 3 dimensions. Everything simply is. You exist. The world exists. It is beautiful.
Everything.

Revolutions should not go towards the outer world. They should be about what we think.

Nothing big can change the world. Thoughts can.

 

[Minuend]

Alisa, that's very similar to my own perspective.

Also, my reply to some of you might be short, but I really find what you people write interesting, I just don't anything in particular to comment.

As an honourary unicorn, I'm obviously obliged to remain strictly imaginary, and my personality likewise.

*Hits Dor with a bat*

Oh no you don't! You will fit into one of these neat little boxes even if I have to beat you to a good, little square!

Getting something down here quickly, as I have to get moving in 5 minutes..

TLDR version of my thoughts: You are not an ENFP with focus on Te.. Doesn't make any sense. As you rely more on Thinking than feeling, that would clearly suggest that you are T and not F. The things you describe as Te doesn't sound like Te in any clear way. You do second guess loop a lot (you are actually considering ENFP) and that is very common amongst Ti.

So focus on Ti, I would say. ESTP, ISTP, ENTP, INTP. From here, and this is purely speculations on my behalf, I would say that you are an introvert.

Well, that is interesting.

Polaris and Elven made me think (!!) some more.

@Auburn did see a video of me, two in fact. He didn't say too much about why he considered me a Ne dom. The most prominent thing I remember from the Adymus Era was the bouncing Ne eyes. So I have kinda assumed that's one of the clues he used. But, in addition to me acting a bit different on tape than I probably do in RL, there's another thing to consider.

It is awkward making a video, because even if it's a dead thing, there's something looking at you D :
So, usually I tend to look up and/ or sideways to give myself time to think. I know that doing this with my eyes gives the obvious impression I'm thinking. I also move my eyes quite a bit because I'm feeling awkward. I also gesture a bit more because of that.

I would kinda think I am a Fe user, for most of my expressions are for other people. I sometimes think that I'm too "dead" in interaction with others, and also, I find talking to people the same repetitive way becomes boring after a while. So I sometimes change my tone of voice, put things on my head etc to get some variation. I also tend to be very concious about when to smile, nod, look sceptical, use my voice to make my point more clear etc.

What I could do. I am going home this Friday. My sister will be there. Maybe I can tape a conversation with her and send you, Aubbie. It would be interesting, because I have suspected that she

Spoiler

actually *is* an ENFP.

Though, in a different thread, Aubbie talked about being effective and good with one's work is more of a Te thing. I definitively get satisfaction from making things more efficient, organize things in my head. It's why I find strategy games satisfactory.

Perhaps Auburn and @Cegorach would elaborate a little about why they are more certain of named individual's ENFPness? If you guys are not too busy.

Also, Ceggy, Melkor told me you two have conversations (!!!) Jealous
I would add a *hinty hinty* here, but I'm not really a good conversationalist, so we probably wouldn't have anything to talk about. Unless you have strong opinions on whether to alphabetize or categorize your porn.

And lastly, I don't really have any type I "want" to be, I'm just curious.

 

[ElvenVeil]

this part I can comment on..

We have a few things to work with here and that is good. Both Thinking Introverted and thinking extroverted organize.. That is, in my opinion how thinkers understand the world around them... And that is much because NTs thrive and love systems.
NTs will touch many of the same fields and interests, but a Te will be much more prone to be interested in organizing things related to the 'real' world than a Ti will.
Imagine a Te user.. As a Te the real world is what in the end really matters.. That means that when organizing or doing things, it must result in some practical benefit.. This can be seen in very simple matters, such as having a nice folder system on your computer or perhaps making plans that will reach 5 years into the future.. And actually go through with them. . Organizing the real world around you. with the aim of making the most cost effecient system is something that Te's enjoy.. After all 'Why do something when it is not optimal'.. An NT will have little understanding of things that are not done with much efficiency.
When it comes to science and abstract thought, the NTs both love and enjoy this.. But they do this in different ways.. NTs, as I said love to understand systems, and obviously science is a field that they therefore enjoy. The Te NT will have little patience with acquiring knowledge that do not reflect an obvious use and possible application in the real world.. They may love MBTI because it much helps them tointeract with other people and understand themselves from a more theoretical perspective (drawing abstract lines and connect the abstract is what intuitives do).. However if they do not see the purpose of learning a specific thing, then you will find their patience and limits with the subject to be much smaller than what a Ti would have.

A thinking introvert love to put things into systems and to understand the world from a theoretical and abstract perspective.. Much like their Te cousins, so to speak. However the Ti way of organizing is an internal process, where you have a deeply rooted need to label and identify all the knowledge that you acquire.. Putting it into boxes.. If you have a concept of some sort, then the Ti will wish to understand every element that makes the whole.. Every element must be identified, labeled and catagorized.. This is the key reason why INTPs are so demanding on proper phrasing, and careful wording; It is simply how their inner world works. If you have little care for choosing the correct words, or knowing a system in detail, then you may well confuse the INTP.. He/She simply sees more options, because his/her inner world is labelled in such detail, that he/she will simply not know which of the possible meanings you mean.. You must be clear.

INTPs and ENTPs enjoy the world of theories, and it doesn't matter that the knowledge doesn't have an obvious application.. Putting new knowledge into your database and system is more than enough for these kind of NTs to be happy..
The real world application is not the primary motivation for these people, though it naturally is not a thing that is undesirable either.

Making things more efficient is a thing that any NT will enjoy, but obviously the INTP/ENTP will not at all go as far with making the external world as effecient as possible, as that is not their primary concern.
Organazing things in your head - > Ti in a nutshell
Strategy gaming: NTs enjoy strategy gaming that requires an understanding of cost/benefit analysis.. The more difficult and tricky optimizing is, the more the NTs enjoy.. There is more to learn and more to understand... If the game is so simple or easy to optimize, the NT will likely lose interest very quickly.

 

[Auburn]

@ElvenVeil - That's more or less how MBTI describes it.

But the system-tendency is actually a secondary effect. And really only a secondary effect of Te/Fe. It manifests most in Te/Fe dominants: the creation of people-systems (cultures) and mechanical systems.

That said, it actually is possible (and normal) for Te users to not implement their thoughts into reality. That depends entirely on their level of laziness and other factors. But the rhythm of their thoughts is what will always be practically-oriented. You'll notice it in their replies. If you run a question by them, they'll examine it on the merits of it's functional efficiency and answer with a judgment of it's competence or incompetence. "Well that'd be a waste of time" or "Dude, go with the grenades, you'll deal 10% more damage." But that's still simply within the confines of a conversation. The physical world remained the same.

In contrast, you run the same question by a Ti user and they'll examine it for internal inconsistencies. Ti doesn't start with a premise, it's given a premise and then it accommodates it's set of judgments to that - and see where something measures up. Now, Ti can entertain as it's premise "efficiency" and it'll come up with similar answers to Te, but generally if no premise at all is given it defaults to universal 'causality' - however well or unwell defined that is to them.

This is why Ti dominants are mute for a lot of their childhood. They spend most of that time of life making small calibrations and noting how different causes beget different effects. It'll form a vague template of this in Si/Ni and sometimes use that as a premise in the future from which to understand matters of reality, but the premise is more often their Ne/Se function's data input.

For TiNe in particular, the premise is often times the imaginations of Ne, in which case the logic/deduction is often different depending on what set of criteria is being measured at that moment. Ti discriminates and contrasts. That's it's fundamental function; what it discriminates is entirely dependent on circumstance.

Now, for Te/Fe dominant or secondary, their premise will come from their paired perceiving function (Ni/Si). This means the premise is known and more or less understood/constant - so their deduction/discrimination processes follow that general direction.

***
​

In short, it is more difficult for Ti+Ne to create a system than the JePi/PiJe types. TiNe generally speculate and react to whatever the current puzzle is, then let the matter float off. It takes grounding in tertiary Si for them to succeed.

In contrast, all the attributes necessary for system building are already in the top two functions of Te/Fe+Ni/Si users. NTs are actually not as related to one another as Je's and Ji's are to themselves.

 

[GYX_Kid]

Most of the ENFPs I know are all like ^_^_^

 

[WhatTheFunction]

I can't really generalize but the ENFP I know is a beautiful and caring person inside and out. He has his faults (as we all do) that consist more of him putting others before himself and caring profoundly about the feelings of people who don't matter. At times, he's a bit careless. Actually, I'd argue that he's careless ALL the time. Tends to do things without thinking them through. He comes to me for advice but I'm guessing the way I go about expressing advice rubs him the wrong way so he never follows it. The results end up in an 'I told you so' sort of situation but I never blatantly put it that way. NF's (at least from this one that I've noticed) are amazing to me. He understands me on a level that most people can't comprehend and brings out sides of me that people probably don't even know exist. (Hell, I feel I don't know it exists at times.) The relationship we have - though sometimes tough - is beautiful. We have a profound connection that'll never be shaken despite what happens. People like him are hard to find and even though sometimes I feel like we're communicating on different planets, we still end up understanding each other in the long run. I wouldn't trade him for anyone in the world.

...and after reading everyone else's responses I realize that my comment is completely irrelevant. Sorry.

 

[Minuend]

^No, no. All is relevant. I don't want people to hold back their impressions and opinions.

Auburn, when you put it that way, I do slightly more lean to the Ti/ Ne. Especially TiNe generally speculate and react to whatever the current puzzle is, then let the matter float off. It takes grounding in tertiary Si for them to succeed.

As I often think about something, but then lack knowledge or can't think of an appropriate answer, then I just let it float off, drifting around until I someday can answer it better.

You'll notice it in their replies. If you run a question by them, they'll examine it on the merits of it's functional efficiency and answer with a judgment of it's competence or incompetence. "Well that'd be a waste of time" or "Dude, go with the grenades, you'll deal 10% more damage." But that's still simply within the confines of a conversation. The physical world remained the same.

In contrast, you run the same question by a Ti user and they'll examine it for internal inconsistencies. Ti doesn't start with a premise, it's given a premise and then it accommodates it's set of judgments to that - and see where something measures up. Now, Ti can entertain as it's premise "efficiency" and it'll come up with similar answers to Te, but generally if no premise at all is given it defaults to universal 'causality' - however well or unwell defined that is to them.

Hmm, I can't tell what I do.

 

[ElvenVeil]

In short, it is more difficult for Ti+Ne to create a system than the JePi/PiJe types. TiNe generally speculate and react to whatever the current puzzle is, then let the matter float off. It takes grounding in tertiary Si for them to succeed.

In contrast, all the attributes necessary for system building are already in the top two functions of Te/Fe+Ni/Si users. NTs are actually not as related to one another as Je's and Ji's are to themselves.

once again I am almost out of time but hopefully I can get a reply down quickly.
I usually enjoy your analyses and conclusions, but this is simply not true in my eyes..

I think it is more difficult for a Ti-NE to create a system, than let's say Ni-Te... The reason is not that they speculate and then let it float off.. That's simply lazy behavior and everyone can exhibit that. What makes it more diffiuclt for Ti-Ne to set up a system (a coherent understand of a principle or theory), is their demand on consistency. . The Ni Te may well get some basic information and then just fill out the rest themselves, so that the whole principle makes sense. The Ti-Ne will not do this (or at least be very reluctant to do so), because of their demand on correct phrasing/meaning . If they see a phenomenon then they may see two ways this can go... Which one is correct? One may see that one seems more correct than the other, but they can't know for sure, hence why it will take a lot longer time for Ti-Ne to create a system.

The second part: NTs are actually not as related to each other as Ji's and Je's are to themselves... This goes against what I have observed.
Let's say Ni-Te and Si-Fe.. According to the above claim, these two would be more closely related to one another than Ni-Te/Te-Ni and Ti-Ne/Ne-Ti... Ni-Te and Si-Fe are obviously both Je's but they focus on completely different things.. Litterally ..
oh I am already much behind scedule now.. The short version was that even though they are Je's their focus will be so vastly different that they will not have an easy time, at all, to relate to each other. the NT focus is much the same, although dealt with in a different manner.. They both search for the rational and logical big picture.