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Does anyone else find games to be shallow?

Thurlor

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I'm not sure if this has been discussed before. Maybe I've even mentioned this on here before (my memory is refusing to work at the moment).

For the last few years I have been finding it very hard to really enjoy pretty much any game I have played. They all seem so shallow. If not at first then definitely after a few hours of game-play. It seems that as I learn the mechanics I become less able to immerse myself.

I think my biggest issue is that I want all the freedoms of real life, none of the restrictions of real life and all from the comfort of my desk chair in front of my PC. Maybe I'm asking for too much.
 

redbaron

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I don't think I've enjoyed many games made in the past 10 years, because games are now all about, "immersion" and neglect to contain real difficulty/challenges.
 

The Void

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Play S.T.A.L.K.E.R. soc
Wait for Witcher 3.
Or play the previous witchers.

As for myself I gave up gaming. Played too much. Got bored.
GFx too poor. Too much lag. Never played in fps more than 20. Too much furstration.
No gta 5 for pc.
Overall I gave up.
I dont wanna waste money for new gfx.
 

BigApplePi

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What kind of games?

Ping Pong? Chess? Fantasy? Board? Football? Mind? Athletic? Tic Tac Toe? Dodgeball? Peekaboo? It? Bridge? Bingo?
 

Pyropyro

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Perhaps you simply crave more challenging prey?

I mean games have their own enjoyment value but at the end of the day it's a safe activity. Even if you fail or win, the console or computer will still be there.

Maybe you need more complex systems with a bit of REAL danger like business or stocks.

It's what I've been experiencing lately as well with games. I'm thinking of doing some riskier stuff which can make my blood rush.
 

Grayman

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I don't think I've enjoyed many games made in the past 10 years, because games are now all about, "immersion" and neglect to contain real difficulty/challenges.

How old are you?
 

Cherry Cola

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5 Reasons the Video Game Industry Is About to Crash

Yeah, I often find them bland and boring. Especially character design gets boring after seeing the same archetype for the 10th time.

My solution has been to turn to indie games for the most part.

I truly hope it does crash, cause when it gets back on its feet it'll have learned some lessons.

Anyway I still enjoy games but I spend time looking them up carefully before I start playing them, if I didn't do that I reckon I would hate most of them.

I don't have any problems with immersion based games, those can be great and give you a nice sense of escapism. Still most games aren't all that immersive despite their graphics and cutscenes; the stories are too stereotyped, characters are bland and forgettable, dialogue awful etc.

Take Mass Effect 3, it's compaty is superior to its predecessors but if you compare the dialogue and the way the story gets presented to the original Mass Effect there's a stark contrast. Characters have dropped 20 points in IQ and the writers write like they are doing Star Ship Troopers minus the irony. I friggin choked on the legion clichés.

Dark Souls on the other hand was thoroughly enjoyable while having almost no explicit storytelling at all.
 

EyeSeeCold

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I don't think I've enjoyed many games made in the past 10 years, because games are now all about, "immersion" and neglect to contain real difficulty/challenges.

Do you mean the 'time sink' type of games? Or game worlds that are engaging? If the latter I'd say game design can be an artform that is not much different from other entertainment media, I don't see anything wrong with that.
 

Ex-User (9086)

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Games reflect the target average demografic that will generate most of the income.
The majority of games I have enjoyed were made before the 21st century or were indie.

The biggest disappointment I had with crpg genre was Dragon Age, that was the last major title I bought from BioWare, that was marketed for being a spiritual successor to Baldur's Gate, utter disaster, poor content, generic story, no challenge after early levels, ridiculous character interaction. As rpg's go the Witcher 2 was decent, along Fallout New Vegas. I have switched to consoles to play some oldschool or exclusive titles there.

I don't buy games based on reviews or trailers, I simply have to wait for it to earn merit and to watch the gameplay.

I don't know of more than 2-3 good upcoming freedom of choice, story driven games.

Last time I played was 21 days ago, funny how things change.
 

Cherry Cola

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Games reflect the target average demografic that will generate most of the income.
The majority of games I have enjoyed were made before the 21st century or were indie.

They try to get the most guaranteed income not the most potential income though. With the budget size of contemporary AAA titles -and even lesser ones pretty often- big companies can't afford to guess thus they leave no room for innovation even if it means that their products will rarely yield as much income as they could if they dared try and hit the nail on the head with their eyes half closed :O
 

Anktark

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Well, one of the reasons for that is most of the big companies use target groups and intend to sell as many copies and make as much money as possible. Witch leads to a bland game being "ok" to a wide audience. And that leads to unwillingness to deviate from the norm. Shareholders FTW!

On the other hand, I find it rather funny, that companies with enough resources to invade a medium sized country can't regularly produce distinct and decent games while indie outlets do.

Still have my faith and hopes in CCP. Those guys are awesome.
 

redbaron

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Do you mean the 'time sink' type of games? Or game worlds that are engaging? If the latter I'd say game design can be an artform that is not much different from other entertainment media, I don't see anything wrong with that.

Both really. The games I've most enjoyed have generally been ones with harsh learning curves/high skill cap.

Quake and its offshoots like painkiller, cpma, warsow. Street Fighter, mostly 3rd Strike but some sf4. Original DotA. Though these really fall into the, 'hardcore competitive' genre. There is single player stuff like Demon Souls and Dark Souls, Splinter Cell etc. but it really just seems like these games are the minority.

Basically the whole appeal of games has really changed. I can hardly find a modern game where you don't end up playing some stupid mini-game at a crucial moment. Like you just have to mash the X button or follow some pre-determined lit up sequence of buttons to kill a boss. Just turns the 'challenges' in modern games into things that are not even relevant to the skills you've learned throughout the game.

Like, "hey, here's all these tools to use and a whole arsenal of maneuvers and weapons that you won't actually need to kill these 'bosses'. Just rinse and repeat some incredibly generic maneuver and then hit the pretty lights!"

Honestly, meh. Quake and Doom are still mechanically more engaging and challenging than any modern FPS I can think of.
 

Ex-User (9062)

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For the last few years I have been finding it very hard to really enjoy pretty much any game I have played. They all seem so shallow. If not at first then definitely after a few hours of game-play. It seems that as I learn the mechanics I become less able to immerse myself.

Same here.
I must say that i analyze the game-play mechanics to ridiculous degrees
and end up wishing to revamp about 75% of them.
Maybe that's where my disappointment comes from.
 

Thurlor

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It's not that I find the games to have changed so much but rather my expectations of them as I've become older and more jaded. If anything I find most modern games to be of superior quality (due to increases in available technology). Having said that most modern games are released in an un-finished state.

@ Salmoneus

I know very, very little about programming or game design but I too start redesigning the games I play or dream up new perfect (imo) games.
 

Architect

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Yes I agree, and have been this way my whole life. I've never thought games of any sort were really worth my time. Exception being Chess (until the world champion was beat by a computer) and to some degree Go, which I picked up in Japan.

The other exception for me is complex RPG's. In the old days that meant D&D, now it means Lord of the Rings Online which I play regularly.
 

EyeSeeCold

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Both really. The games I've most enjoyed have generally been ones with harsh learning curves/high skill cap.

Quake and its offshoots like painkiller, cpma, warsow. Street Fighter, mostly 3rd Strike but some sf4. Original DotA. Though these really fall into the, 'hardcore competitive' genre. There is single player stuff like Demon Souls and Dark Souls, Splinter Cell etc. but it really just seems like these games are the minority.

Basically the whole appeal of games has really changed. I can hardly find a modern game where you don't end up playing some stupid mini-game at a crucial moment. Like you just have to mash the X button or follow some pre-determined lit up sequence of buttons to kill a boss. Just turns the 'challenges' in modern games into things that are not even relevant to the skills you've learned throughout the game.

Like, "hey, here's all these tools to use and a whole arsenal of maneuvers and weapons that you won't actually need to kill these 'bosses'. Just rinse and repeat some incredibly generic maneuver and then hit the pretty lights!"

Honestly, meh. Quake and Doom are still mechanically more engaging and challenging than any modern FPS I can think of.
I think most AAA games with bosses/obstacles like that are trying to go for the cinematic experience, stimulating adrenaline. I agree some studios are just mediocre though and do it with a lack of imagination, but I think there are some good uses of it out there.

I would recommend Super Metroid and LoZ: A Link to the Past/Ocarina of Time on emulators if you haven't played either yet, and also Limbo. If you have a PS2/PS3, definitely Shadow of the Colossus which is a game with only gigantic bosses that must be uniquely defeated.
 

Lot

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It's hard to find a game that is fun and has a good story. You seem to get the option of one or the other. Sometimes neither. Or they have both and are way too short.

I still enjoy playing games, though. Maybe I'm just chasing the dragon. But it feels like that next great game is around the corner.
 

pjoa09

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For me games are a development of useful and useless skills.

I enjoyed Portal, Portal 2, Forza, Tetris, and GTA.

I mostly enjoyed Forza and GTA on the basis that I felt like a badass while playing it. Picking up strippers in fast luxurious cars at shady alleys is my thing.
 

Reluctantly

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There are some really interesting games, but you need to look a bit. I stumbled on Bioshock Infinite and the Mass Effect games. I just got a game called Metro 2033, which is old, but it's really unique. Dishonored was pretty interesting too. I recommend Dead Space 1 and 2 as well. And Left For Dead 1/2 and Portal 1/2 were pretty neat games. I second ESC's Limbo suggestion. Beyond Good and Evil wasn't a bad game either. Oh yeah, Fallout 3 and Deus Ex & Deus Ex: Human Revolution are interesting. The old Max Payne games (1 & 2) were pretty good.

There are good games out there, but I am always surprised how much people like shooters when it's always the same type of gameplay with the same basic mechanics. I think those games tend to sell the most, so that's what they make, I guess. But I don't think the video game industry is going crash, since they cater to what the majority seems to want, even if what they want seems hackneyed.
 

Milo

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The games I remember enjoying the most were Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Kingdom Hearts, Final Fantasy X, and Final Fantasy VII (the spin off with Vincent Valentine). Haven't really gotten anything worth of noting since. But, then again, I haven't been playing too many games since.
 

Solitaire U.

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Agreed, most games are shallow and repetitive. There are a few exceptions.

I tend to go for highly immersive base games that have dedicated fan-mod followings, and stick with them for a long time.

The STALKER series is a prime example. Enough awesome mods for these games to have kept me playing for years. I have 80 gigs of all three STALKER vanillas + mods installed. Still dabble occasionally, though the mod flow has slowed considerably. If I could only read and understand Russian, I could go another 5 years with the untranslated mods.

Fallout 3 / New Vegas were pretty engaging, but Skyrim trumps them both. My first play-through of vanilla Skyrim + expansions has run hundreds of hours, and I'm not finished yet, nor have I begun to play with any mods. Currently installed and playing; New Vegas and Skyrim, soon to be joined by Oblivion, I think.

Half Life 2 had some interesting, but ultimately repetitive mods. Vanilla was a blast for speed runs, though. Would play it again if I could find a solid rip.

The multiplayer race mode in Halo 1 was a blast. Played it for years. Base game also great for speed runs. Haven't liked any of it's sequels though. Still installed.

Dishonored got repetitive after about a week. Deleted.

Bioshock 2: got old really fast after the momentary amusement of having little girls call you 'Big Daddy' wore off. Deleted.

Starcraft 2: Been there, done that. Deleted after a week.

Deus Ex Human Rev. was fun until I got to the bitch boss that was so difficult to defeat that it quashed my interest in finishing the final 3rd of the game. Deleted.

I still play Roller Coaster Tycoon 3. I even use it as an ESL teaching aid for my 9-11 year olds.

The Sims 3: I want to check this out, but I don't have time to DL and fuck around with 68 gigs of content.

There are good, immersive games out there, though they're in the minority. Go for the fan mods to boost their longevity even further.
 

Howitzer

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For the last few years I have been finding it very hard to really enjoy pretty much any game I have played. They all seem so shallow. If not at first then definitely after a few hours of game-play. It seems that as I learn the mechanics I become less able to immerse myself.

I think my biggest issue is that I want all the freedoms of real life, none of the restrictions of real life and all from the comfort of my desk chair in front of my PC. Maybe I'm asking for too much.

Can you explain what you mean by shallow and immersing yourself? What games have you been playing? I'm not sure I understand.
To me knowing mechanics is mastering a game, and immersion would be a kind of back and forth storytelling between me and a game, so they don't really affect each other.
 

Thurlor

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@ Howitzer

I've probably been doing a poor job of describing my thoughts/feelings regarding this. I'll try and expand on it.

For me shallow can refer to many aspects of gameplay or design. Some examples would be;
- A closed-world. Linear progression sucks.
- Repeating assets. NPC's and dialogue are the worst for this.
- Concessions made to save on processing power. An example would be simplified or nonexistent combat simulations out-side of render range. (I really hate the difference between 'in-system' and 'out-of-system' combat in the X games or the way the AI handles fleets in EUIV).
- Most game stories are worse than bad.

In regards to the games I have been playing the list is quite varied though not very large. Besides, currently my PC is a bit outdated which limits options. Anyway, my favourite games from the last decade or so are;
- X2-The Threat, X3-Reunion, Terran Conflict and Albion Prelude.
- Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim.
- Most of the Total War series.
- Dungeon Siege 1 and 2 (not 3).
- Master of Orion 3 (never tried 1 or 2).
- Europa Universalis IV.
- Sword of the Stars (1 not 2).
- World of Warcraft (too much time spent on that).
- Star Trek Online.
- Quake 1 and 2.
- Distant Worlds.
- Prototype.
- Spore.
- Mass Effect series (3 was a bit of a let down).
- Gothic series.

I used to quite enjoy rts games but I gave up on them when I realized every multiplayer match was just a resource rush and a zerg fest.
 

NormannTheDoorman

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The battlefield series is going down that road. Battlefield 4 is kind of bland. It feels like it's BF2 with BF3 graphics and of course teh fanboyz will deny this hurrr....
 

Jennywocky

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Just finished "The Walking Dead Season 1" interactive story, by Telltale, this past week.

Anyone who just makes comments like "games are shallow" needs to use a little more nuance; not only did the story and characters change according to my choices in the storyline, and there were never any clear "right answers" but just choices (sometimes hard ones) to be made, but I had my emotions jerked around more than some of the movies I've enjoyed. The whole ending sequence is pretty devastating. That game is gonna haunt me for awhile.

IOW, it depends on the game. If you play stuff just based on adrenaline or repetitive gameplay, it'll get "same old same old" after awhile. I also think that, as good as some games can be for awhile, eventually everything gets stale if you do it too much. i.e., you gotta mix up your interests so that you don't adjust and grow numb to the stimuli. By that, I don't mean just games -- do some other stuff in life besides playing games, which can sometimes just act as energy sinks versus using energy to produce, create, accomplish.
 

SpaceYeti

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I generally don't buy games until one of my homies is all "This game is awesome!" or "This game is teh suxxorz!".

Also, I factor in why it sucks. Kind of like how the reasons Skyrim sucked are the same reasons it was cool.
 

nexion

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Games, just like with most any other media, are widely varied in terms of quality, though I do have to say, it does seem as though the quality of games is generally going down for the last few years and probably for a while longer. There are no upcoming games I have seen that I have felt a need to play. Most of them either look bland or like a rehash of concepts that have been created in the past and don't NEED to be remade.

If you get bored with a game as soon as you get a feel for its mechanics, then I doubt you're going to find very many games that wouldn't bore you, since mechanics tend to be something that remain fairly stable through the course of a game (though you might try looking into something like Antichamber). If you get bored with a game after you figure out how it works, then try looking at it beyond how it works. I'm not sure what kind of games you play or find enjoyable, but a lot of games will have certain things related to character, theme, gameplay, etc., which all lend themselves to more immersion and a better game. My example for absolute perfection in a game is STILL Final Fantasy X. Fantastic and likable characters, beautiful world, good plot and battle style, excellent 'leveling' system, enormously customizable and involved, and yet somehow still manages to be a very good story that is all kinds of deep. (EDIT: Also The Last of Us, an utterly amazing game which also happens to have a lot of challenge)

I find that if I like a game enough, I tend to get into the lore of the game world: history, religion, culture, and more, and if a game actually has a lot of this stuff, that's all the more reason that I like it to begin with. I am very much attracted to the world and its people as much as I am with the gameplay and mechanics. My goto example for this is The Elder Scrolls series: the gameplay can get redundant and boring, but there is no other game or game series where I have been more involved in the lore, although it certainly helps just how much lore those games have. It is mind-boggling just how real the world feels, with the complexities of the long and interesting history, mythology and religion, tomes and magic. It's just brilliant. (EDIT: Also the entire damn Metroid series)

But I am beside myself. There are much more things to a game than its gameplay. I would suggest looking more into aspects beyond that and seeing if you don't find more enjoyment in them.

I think my biggest issue is that I want all the freedoms of real life, none of the restrictions of real life and all from the comfort of my desk chair in front of my PC. Maybe I'm asking for too much.
In our current constraints of processing power and programming capabilities? Yes, yes you are asking for too much. But games aren't always about freedom anyway. Sometimes a game is just trying to tell a story.
 

Cherry Cola

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I generally don't buy games until one of my homies is all "This game is awesome!" or "This game is teh suxxorz!".

Also, I factor in why it sucks. Kind of like how the reasons Skyrim sucked are the same reasons it was cool.

What? That's not true. Skyrim sucked not because of the features it has been hailed as a "great game" for, but because all the game mechanics are shit, combat and quests are extremely repetitive, and the story is shit and told like shit.

Btw it is not okay in the least to think that Skyrim is a good game. Seriously only an SJ type should find something which offers nothing other than mundane repetition in a pretty but hopelessly artificial world and does so through some of the most dated and poorly done game mechanics since forever.
 

Latte

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I disagreed with Todd a lot because Todd and I do not like the same kinds of games. This is not his fault or mine. Whether it is more fun to smash things with a huge axe or coax secrets from obfuscated texts is pure opinion. Whether it's better to play against dice or against an intelligent designer is pure opinion. Frankly, most gamers are more like Todd. It is in Bethesda's best interests to appeal to those gamers, instead of making a game that appeals to me. I selfishly didn't want to work on a game that didn't appeal to me, but that wasn't my job. My job was to work on Morrowind, regardless of whether I liked it or not.
- Douglas Goodall

Who the hell is Adams
 

SpaceYeti

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What? That's not true. Skyrim sucked not because of the features it has been hailed as a "great game" for, but because all the game mechanics are shit, combat and quests are extremely repetitive, and the story is shit and told like shit.

Btw it is not okay in the least to think that Skyrim is a good game. Seriously only an SJ type should find something which offers nothing other than mundane repetition in a pretty but hopelessly artificial world and does so through some of the most dated and poorly done game mechanics since forever.

Bah, breaking the economy and giants smashing you a mile into the sky is entertaining. Oh, and the dude with an arrow in his back who must have just heard something. Skyrim is hilarious!
 

Cherry Cola

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Yes, everything is subjective, after all some people experience pleasure consuming feces.

Skyrim is crap in every measurable way except in regards to sound and graphics. Graphically it is overrated, it suffers from a monotonous palette and halfassed animations among other things, still it has atmosphere.

It is large purely in terms of size, but interactions are kept on a pretty small scale and dungeons repeat, and repeat, and repeat; and are used for a ton of quests which; likewise, are large in quantity but uninspired and dull.

Spaceyeti has a point though, I guess the game does provide some fun with its easily exploited game mechanics. But that's just a side effect of the fact that it is fucking shit and doesn't provide it with any lasting appeal, something sorely needed for an open world game of its kind.

Skyrim is junk food. It will not develop your brain in the least, it will make you stupider, have you waste tons of time on shit.
 

SpaceYeti

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Who plays video games to develop their mind? My consoles say "PS3" and "Wii.U", not "Leapfrog". Don't be pretentious, video games are entertainment, just like any other media. I don't play Mario Kart to learn.
 

The Void

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skyrim can be good after 100+ mods
RCRN mod -> with some edit (get gamma near 1.800, and some saturation settings)
and then caves and nights can be made as dark as hell, impossible, without torch,
atmosphere changes completely,
add some dramatic sky mod,
a Vilja compinion mod,
interesting npc mod (havent seen it yet),
Tk-combat,
enahnced Ai or duel combat realism,
locational damage,
new patch,
dragonborn dlc,
dawngaurd dlc,
Flaskaar mod,
Wyrmsmooth mod
moospath to elswer(dont remember the spellings)
(all these mods adds extra location, extra story and all that, Falskaar add a pretty big island,
enemies are harder to beat, voice acting better than original, dont quite know about the story)
some summer grass mod (flora overhaul mod), brings back summer, yet the rcrn mods keeps the cloudy atmospeher,
together a different level,

some blood mod,

heartbreaker mod (finishing move)

civil war overhaul mod,

mod mod mod!!!
 

Cherry Cola

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100+ mods says something about its initial state. Hehe.

@Spaceyeti

Bitch please, this has nothing to do with being pretentious. You on the other hand is being categorical. Just because you learn less from games than from various other things such as relentless reading that don't bloody mean that if you play games anyway you shouldn't put any thought into what you are playing. You're also assuming a style of learning which is biased towards judging doms.

For instance plenty of great Ni dom thinkers have used basal activities as a means of therapy (wittgenstein for instance). Furthermore, I have some artistic ambitions, I am quite sure feeding my mind with the kind of music and visuals which only games offer does provide me with richer internal imagery than I would have excess to else. Moreover, your attitude reeks of naive conservatism "games are entertainment so that's what they should be and be seen as, anything past that is pretension".

Right, except that games are a new form of culture, having been around for a very short time. Of course they are fucking basal and mainly entertainment. If I assume consequence on your part, you are then opposed to games such as Pathologic or New Vegas? Y know, games that go beyond mere entertainment, utilizing the format to entertain thought material?

Finally plenty of studies have shown that while games are mainly entertainment they have cognitive benefits. More so than films, which people are happy to analyze and profess deep. Fucking look at the earliest examples of literature, stupid and pointless.

Shape da fuck up or you are an ISTP indeed.

Edit: Games already provide competion, arguably on the same level as does games which have been around for ages. A fighting game like super smash bros melee requires an APM rivaling Starcraft as well as an ability to quickly grasp the opponents mindset and patterns of action since every action you take, viewed on its own, is at best a qualified guess.
 

SpaceYeti

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I never said, or intended to imply, that video games must remain in their basal box. My point was that most are, and thus it's silly to hold that against them. Skyrim stinks, but it stinks in an enjoyable manner, and that's only technically a bad thing. Sure, it's garbage... But it's fun, so who cares? It being crap isn't exactly a secret, but it entertains, so meh.
 

Cherry Cola

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Yes you did. Though you did write "just like any other media" which I guess changes things, though it was still a strange sentiment.

It should not even be enjoyable, you quickly uncover everything you can potentially do in the game. You quickly uncover that combat sucks, crafting sucks, story sucks, questing sucks... everything sucks, and everything is repeated endlessly in the game. Why do people keep playing it when there are plenty of other similar games which are much better in regards of everything? It is not quality entertainment by any measure except a purely subjective one. Playing Skyrim is degrading, like gurgling turds. Not for a short while, that's okay it is captivating initially that much I admit.

The issue is all the people who claim it is a "great game" and play it for hundreds of hours. Such a sin can not be forgiven. Spreading false information and engaging in mind numbing activities is not okay. Especially the former, it is so bloody easy to recognize that by any existing standard except sound and graphics it is a shity fucking crap game.
 

Analyzer

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I find I can't keep my attention for longer than 15-30 minutes when playing video games. When I was younger this was not the case.
 

Cherry Cola

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If you play for thrills that is not strange, you should try having a different mindset or not play games.

Alternatively you should think about your own taste in games and search the web extensively til you find one that seems to fit it.
 

Analyzer

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If you play for thrills that is not strange, you should try having a different mindset or not play games.

Alternatively you should think about your own taste in games and search the web extensively til you find one that seems to fit it.

Thank you I will see if that helps.
 

Latte

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Who plays video games to develop their mind? My consoles say "PS3" and "Wii.U", not "Leapfrog". Don't be pretentious, video games are entertainment, just like any other media. I don't play Mario Kart to learn.

Do you read fiction without caring about the quality of the writing?

Compelling, enjoyable fiction, when it comes to background world and story(ies) has traditionally been a major part what is expected from adventure games and RPGs.
This is one of the primary thing to keep in mind when someone rants about Skyrim being the poster child of all that went wrong with RPGs. There are somethings that were expected, wanted. Somethings seen as the primary, most important things about the genre. And those somethings were just an afterthought in the development, designed without much sense of their importance and treated as largely trivial by design team coordinators.

Many people were expecting post-morrowind installment game design to take writing and general feeling somewhat seriously, but it was not taken seriously in the slightest and significant degradation occurred.

This is a trend seen throughout the RPG market since the advent of "realistic graphics". To design environments to inspire wonder and a sense of adventure, to choose the right colors and textures with an overall feeling in mind that fits the theme... these things are not as prioritized as they were. Their absence are not highly economically punished, in part because many who care buy the games anyway even though they are pretty sure they're going to get disappointed. Meanwhile, most people would rather just play follow the quest arrow and hack some shit somewhere or make their own little sandbox style "I'm going to exploit this to get the highest number of that thing" adventures.

Story, artistry, character progression relative to the world, immersion, feeling. That is what is not there when an RPG's primary enjoyment comes from figuring out how to derive silly amusement from a broken uninspiring disjointed amusement park or repeatedly triggering narrow brain reward feelings via "you have completed a quest or killed dragon number 230 feel proud m8". One does not feel the game from the inside. It is not a game conducive to feeling one is playing a role. That one is a person inside another world.

That said, the adventure game aspect, the interactive story aspect, of RPGs, is not going to die and will bounce back due to there frankly being more a market for it than the people in charge were aware of, as well as the yolosweg 360 whocaresaboutwonderiwanttohitthingswithmaxpixels market being increasingly saturated, and the console generation becoming more bored with playing the same game over and over again even though they largely probably don't quite realize it yet. The same shit most PC gamers got fed up with when they played some MMORPG on the internet some time before the age of facebook.

Adding: There were a few cool, well written stories and well-designed environments in Oblivion and Skyrim... but they should have a been the standard, not rare nuggets... especially for important storylines. Instead they were very rare and probably the work of some minor underappreciated person on the team who no one internally gave any recognition because dunning kreuger. And were dragged down due to other aspects of the game that interfered with their overall feel.
 

Cherry Cola

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Yes, the RPG genre more than most others require a broad range of aptitudes from the developers.

I put my hopes on Oblivion, they have the aptitudes, their writers are smart, skilled at what they do and they are obviously learned people. Bioware is a shadow of what it was. But Oblivion still has the same ol' gifted employees working for them they know what a good crpg needs first and foremost; if Project Eternity becomes a major success perhaps there might there might something of a revival for the CRPG genre!

SquareEnix also recently said they now realized people actually wanted JRPGs all over the world following success of that portable JRPG with a strange name which was a major success. They kicked one of their top guys and replaced him with a dude who had the position before when they made games that weren't shit. So perhaps we'll see something decent from them in the future, skeptical about that though.
 

Kuu

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I gave up on games nearly a decade ago. One or two suddenly catch my attention, but other than that... yawn. Why waste my money buying consoles and tvs or super-spec PCs to be bored by mediocre stories, cheap gimmicks, and same old mechanics?

Games are just another manifestation of the decadent state of our mass consumption society of spectacle, a preference by disconnected bureaucratic decision makers and investors for flashy, cheap and quick formulas over creative risk, effort and quality for the purposes of pursuing endless unsustainable milking of the market. Same can be observed in other media and creative areas like news, books, tv and film, industrial design and architecture...

Indie games and new distribution platforms show promise, but the nature of the beast is largely the same.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/SturgeonsLaw
 

Cherry Cola

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Yes everything sucks right now in particular, that never gets old, one should just die.
 

redbaron

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Who plays video games to develop their mind? My consoles say "PS3" and "Wii.U", not "Leapfrog". Don't be pretentious, video games are entertainment, just like any other media. I don't play Mario Kart to learn.

Plenty of people I think.

There's some people for whom (hi Bronto) mental development serves as entertainment. I found Dark Souls more entertaining than Skyrim because DS rewarded creativity and there were dozens of ways to approach any given point in the game. I replayed it numerous times. Skyrim though was a bland experience overall, I didn't even bother finishing it.

There's the same trend for lots of gamers across many platforms and genres. Competitive gaming is huge now, with millions in prize money for several games, national and international tournaments etc. Games like Quake, Street Fighter, Starcraft are ALL about learning, and the enjoyment of that process.

And if you look at the numbers of people who play games like these, it's pretty clear that many people do value learning/mental development in games.
 

digitalbum

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I'm not sure if this has been discussed before. Maybe I've even mentioned this on here before (my memory is refusing to work at the moment).

For the last few years I have been finding it very hard to really enjoy pretty much any game I have played. They all seem so shallow. If not at first then definitely after a few hours of game-play. It seems that as I learn the mechanics I become less able to immerse myself.

I think my biggest issue is that I want all the freedoms of real life, none of the restrictions of real life and all from the comfort of my desk chair in front of my PC. Maybe I'm asking for too much.


I found the Grand Theft Auto series usually gave me enough freedom. The last one was especially brilliant. Alas, I burned out on that one.

Was pretty into online COD for awhile, burned out eventually as well.
 

SpaceYeti

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I can think of only a few captivating, truly unique, inspired games. Ten and twenty years ago, games sucked. Remember FF6? One of my favorite games, yet it sucked. Don't delude youselves into thinking games were ever better as a general rule. They're all gamey and silly shells of a virtual world. This is nothing new. Maybe it's in new ways, but games have always sucked, and the gems you remember from your youth are the exceptions, not the rule.
 

redbaron

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This is nothing new. Maybe it's in new ways, but games have always sucked, and the gems you remember from your youth are the exceptions, not the rule.

Nah.

Majority of FPS games made pre-Halo era were outstanding. There were probably a dozen popular iterations of various FPS games that were all in some way unique and with great mechanics.

RPG games were good too. Baldur's Gate, NWN, HoMM, Diablo and the offshoots they spawned are still comparitively as good as most modern RPG games made today.

RTS isn't even a contest. War3 and it's various mods and then Starcraft, C&C and the Age series. They're still the best RTS going around.

Fighting games haven't really changed in 15 years. All the games we see now are just sequels to previous successes. MvC, SF, Tekken, KoF, Soul Calibur series still go strong. Still, the era of games like Vampire Savior I think are gone.

Anyway I could go on, but I think it's clear to any but the most casual of gamers that a decade ago games were actually frequently of better quality and depth than today.
 
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