Do you admire intelligent or kind people more?

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This question is derived from this quote:

“When I was young, I used to admire intelligent people; as I grow older, I admire kind people.”
— Abraham Joshua Heschel

I encountered this quote when I was younger. At that time, I admired intelligent people. When I saw it, I wondered if I'd ever admire kind people. Recently, I realized that I'm starting to admire kind people more.


What about you?

 

[Seteleechete]

I don't really admire either. Generally I don't admire anyone, they are who they are there is no reason to admire them.

Granted there are exceptions, maybe? Some kind of derivation of cunning/stubborn I can't accurately pinpoint(I know of no non-fictional that would fit). And even then I prefer something akin to "fancy" rather than "admire".

Hmm, I might like some people or feel jealous about their circumstances but I can't bring myself to say that I admire them. Granted the words are nearly synonymous but there are subtle differences, particularly in regards to what authority the words hold, I feel comfortable using "like", "fancy" or "approve" ect. but not "admire". Maybe because admire far more strongly implies I want to be that person/have that trait but the other words don't.

 

[onesteptwostep]

I admire both. Intelligent people have the breadth of knowledge required for the subjects which I want to discuss, while kind people have the emotional intelligence to bounce my ideas off of them.

When I was younger I neither respected nor admired anyone, but as I've gotten a bit more older I realized that everyone had their stories to tell, and that most people will have stories to tell.

People whom I have vested interest in are people who have both of those traits, but being able to lead at the same time. Desmond Tutu, Abraham Lincoln, Conan O'Brien, Admiral Yi, Eisenhower..

 

[Pyropyro]

I happen to admire intelligent people that tend to be kind so I think I hit two birds with one stone.

 

[Hadoblado]

I prefer kindness.

Kindness is the practice of a type of intelligence.

Intelligence per se guarantees nothing, not even demonstrably intelligent behaviour or awareness. I don't give a flying fuck if you can complete a rubik's cube blindfolded, or you can remember pi to an impractical number of decimal places. It does nothing for me. Intelligence is just the potential to do relevant things, and has no value if that potential is unrealised. It's the penis people seem to have wedged firmly between their ears and once people are all grown up you'd think they'd stop caring that much about its size but far too many of them don't.

When people achieve real things, they stop caring about abstract notions of potential. I'd hope this isn't the case for kindness.

 

[Sinny91]

Both... But kind people tend to surprise me the most.

I always feel like a shitty human being, next to those who are much kinder and nicer than me.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Eh, maybe just choose "wise" and shoot down the false dichotomy.

 

[Haim]

From the people I knew, kind but not from being mentally weak or that I am weak.
Intelligent people, well I almost did not get to see anyone at that level that could make me admire them, for people I don't know I have zero care for their kindness but the awesome things they do/make(intelligence)

 

[Tannhauser]

Im in the same camp as Seteleech. Everyone has their strengths and weaknesses. Its usually very easy to spot what they are, and very easy to understand their origins. Hence there is little incentive to admire.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Intelligence per se guarantees nothing, not even demonstrably intelligent behaviour or awareness. I don't give a flying fuck if you can complete a rubik's cube blindfolded, or you can remember pi to an impractical number of decimal places. It does nothing for me. Intelligence is just the potential to do relevant things, and has no value if that potential is unrealised.

How or in what form intelligence is realized is also significant.

It can certainly manifest in ugly, distorted shapes.


In addition, there can be situations where expressing kindness is bad.

For example, being kind to those who are disrespectful.

The right and just response is hostility, aggression.

Another example is over-expressing kindness.


To those who are forever kind: admirable or (emotionally) disabled?

 

[Grayman]

I admire people who are willing to go friendless in order to preserve truthful and needed criticism and who dont validate self destructive thoughts and feeling in order to preserve friendships.

I dont admire people who inflict unnecessary damage on people with no gain except to say that it is the truth.

 

[Sinny91]

Eh? Those statements seem to conflict.

Am I misreading?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Eh? Those statements seem to conflict.

Am I misreading?

They make sense. It's about providing good information despite possible harm, not because of it.

i.e. saying two things are disapproved of there
- omitting truth because it may be offensive
- being offensive because it may be truth

And the good thing
- saying truth even if it may be offensive

For example, being kind to those who are disrespectful.

The right and just response is hostility, aggression.

Is hostility/aggression really the right response there? You can firmly disagree with someone's disrespect without having to get aggressive.

--

I tend to prefer kindness, but I think intelligence is more important for determining if I will be friends with someone.

 

[Jake54321]

It depends on the context. I tend to value what intelligence produces as opposed to what kindness produces. However, I believe kindness is important and makes the world an easier place to live in.

 

[Hadoblado]

How or in what form intelligence is realized is also significant.

It can certainly manifest in ugly, distorted shapes.


In addition, there can be situations where expressing kindness is bad.

For example, being kind to those who are disrespectful.

The right and just response is hostility, aggression.

Another example is over-expressing kindness.


To those who are forever kind: admirable or (emotionally) disabled?

Just? No.

People that are aggressive are okay with aggressive responses. Yes it's lex talionis, we left that behind a long time ago. It doesn't teach them not to attack.

Right? No.

Compare to disappointment, which is a power only those that practice kindness can harness, is far more effective, and doesn't escalate conflict beyond the scope of the transgression.

How many internet 'debates' do you need witness before you realise hostility is an extremely limited means of communication?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

There is no communication to be had once disrespect springs.

 

[Grayman]

There is no communication to be had once disrespect springs.

What is respect?

 

[Hadoblado]

There is no communication to be had once disrespect springs.

Yes there is. From disrespect can come respect, how does this happen if communication no longer exists between the two entities? I know married people who started off hating each other... At some point communication has to have happened in these scenarios.

 

[Grayman]

Yes there is. From disrespect can come respect, how does this happen if communication no longer exists between the two entities? I know married people who started off hating each other... At some point communication has to have happened in these scenarios.

If respect means keeping an open mind and listening then disrespect means the other person isn't ready to listen. What then would communication do?

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Not until one recognizes their faults and apologizes.

Then, yes, respect may spring.

I was once told by someone that respect was treating others the way one would like to be treated.
The way one treats oneself, is the way one would treat others.
The respect one has for oneself, is the respect one will have for others.

 

[Grayman]

Not until one recognizes their faults and apologizes.

Then, yes, respect may spring.

I was once told by someone that respect was treating others the way one would like to be treated.
The way one treats oneself, is the way one would treat others.
The respect one has for oneself, is the respect one will have for others.

Jeez, another ego. You got problems.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

The world doesn't revolve around you.

I wasn't insinuating anything.

That had no personal reference to you.

It is you who has "an ego" and who has displayed rudeness once again.

Don't respond to me.

 

[Grayman]

The world doesn't revolve around you.

I wasn't insinuating anything.

That had no personal reference to you.

It is you who has "an ego" and who has displayed rudeness once again.

Don't respond to me.

You are so easy to silence.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

It's pretty clear that Grayshit has developed a grudge.

He hasn't dealt with our previous interaction personally yet and that is why he is reacting impulsively to my posts.

Desperate to find the slightest error in my comments so that he can reconcile his petty ego.

What is funny is that I made no error here, I have certainly said nothing worthy of his insult.

Go fuck yourself, Grayshit.

 

[Grayman]

It's pretty clear that Grayshit has developed a grudge.

He hasn't dealt with our previous interaction personally yet and that is why he is reacting impulsively to my posts.

Desperate to find the slightest error in my comments so that he can reconcile his petty ego.

What is funny is that I made no error here, I have certainly said nothing worthy of his insult.

Go fuck yourself, Grayshit.

So you do communicate but not realy I guess... It is more like you demand respect. When it isn't given. At least that seems ti be the case.

 

[Sinny91]

I remember a year ago when saying "fuck you" was a bannable offense.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

Tell me, Grayshit, what ought someone do to earn your respect?

What standards should they attain?

Intelligence? Strength? Money? Social finesse? Status? Military conscription?

I respect other people's feelings as I do my own. There's no need to fulfill egotistical standards in order to warrant respect, however, there is a need to respect other people's feelings.

That is what is required for healthy social interactions. It's simple.

Who is the one with the ego here, fool?

 

[Grayman]

Tell me, Grayshit, what ought someone do to earn your respect?

What standards should they attain?

Intelligence? Strength? Money? Social finesse? Status? Military conscription?

I respect other people's feelings as I do my own. There's no need to fulfill egotistical standards in order to warrant respect, however, there is a need to respect other people's feelings.

That is what is required for healthy social interactions. It's simple.

Who is the one with the ego here, fool?

No one has to earn it. They just have to keep it. Usually it just plays out better if I give it first but it isn't really because I think everyone deserves it. A person might earn my admiration but respect is always given unless certain circumstances might require that I refrain from giving it temporarily.

I typically don't give respect to people who intimidate others in order to get it. I suppose people do and have gained more respect but usually it circles around peoples ability to influence the world, others, and themselves in a positive or more so 'productive' direction and not be lost in distractions.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

I remember a year ago when saying "fuck you" was a bannable offense.

An insult is an insult.

Whether it is "go fuck yourself" or saying somebody has an ego.

It's all just the same.

How arbitrary to accept one and not the other.

Perhaps, I should have called him an idiot instead, because that's not an insult, but the truth.

I reacted emotionally because he forced me to do so. He initiated with an insult, again, for no good reason other then because he has a grudge (no self-respect).

Hell, I did not even react aggressively at first, I merely defended myself, or, rather, I responded to his delusion, and told him to refrain from responding and what does he do? He provokes me.

How impulsive!

So I, insulted back, and set out clearly the reasons for why I did so (which he fails to do, since there are none!)

After all of this, clear as daylight, you hint at my ban, Sinny? Idiot.

If anything, he should be banned.

Otherwise, he could apologize, for his own sake. I will be happy to accept this and return to having a civilized discussion with him.

 

[Grayman]

An insult is an insult.

Whether it is "fuck you" or saying somebody has an ego.

It's all just the same.

How arbitrary to accept one and not the other.

Perhaps, I should have called him an idiot instead, because that's not an insult, but the truth.

I reacted emotionally because he forced me to do so. He initiated with an insult, for no good reason other then because he has a grudge.

Whereas I, insulted back, and set out clearly the reasons for why I did so.

If anything, he should be banned.

Otherwise, he could apologize. I will be happy to accept this and return to having a civilized discussion with him.

You are entitled to your feelings and if you feel the need to say fuck you because I upset you with my comment that is okay.

 

[Sinny91]

An insult is an insult.

Whether it is "fuck you" or saying somebody has an ego.

It's all just the same.

How arbitrary to accept one and not the other.

Perhaps, I should have called him an idiot instead, because that's not an insult, but the truth.

I reacted emotionally because he forced me to do so. He initiated with an insult, again, for no good reason other then because he has a grudge (no self-respect).

Hell, I did not even react aggressively at first, I merely defended myself, and told him to refrain from responding and what does he do? He provokes me.

How impulsive!

Whereas I, insulted back, and set out clearly the reasons for why I did so.

After all of this, clear as daylight, you hint at my ban, Sinny? Idiot.

If anything, he should be banned.

Otherwise, he could apologize, for his own sake. I will be happy to accept this and return to having a civilized discussion with him.

Lol! I was not hinting for your ban , but I'll take your "idiot" comment and duly note it.

Spoiler

I was actually mulling over the desensitisation of the forum

 

[Pressure's Spring]

That's what I thought you were implying given the context.

If not, then that comment does not apply.

I hope you understand.

 

[Sinny91]

I understand.

My mom always used to say "you know what Thought did, he pissed the bed but thought he was sweating"

God knows how that one came to be.

 

[Pressure's Spring]

It happens.

Usually I take precaution and say, "if you are doing this, then you are that"

I was heated up.

You are entitled to your feelings and if you feel the need to say fuck you because I upset you with my comment that is okay.

I said, go fuck yourself, you condescending bastard.

 

[Grayman]

I reacted emotionally because he forced me to do so.

You give me a lot of credit.

 

[billybbob18]

There are those who are good, but not nice, and those who are nice but not good. Can we really help who we are; or our inclinations toward kindness of heart or strength of mind? I admire those who are true to themselves, be they kind or smart, as long as they are good.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

How unadmirable, Pressure's Spring and Grayman!

There are those who are good, but not nice, and those who are nice but not good. Can we really help who we are; or our inclinations toward kindness of heart or strength of mind? I admire those who are true to themselves, be they kind or smart, as long as they are good.

Can one really be good or bad, or does goodness come from what one does?

I suppose there are those who benefit the population and those who hinder it through their seemingly innate lack of responsibility? Fundamentally, I would say we are neither good nor bad by default, and only our choices can be measured in such a manner. Also, I think it is a very complex, if not impossible task to determine just how good a given choice is.

But yes, as long as one is being good, one's other attributes are of secondary importance.

 

[TAC]

Ya know,
I tend to have an admiration of intelligent people, but there is a nuance. I do not like people who know they are intelligent, but rather are more unaware of their brilliance.
As for kind people: I like them initially, but grow to despise them. The longing for fitting in and comforting makes me sick in the long-run. You realize that these people are so self-serving in the friendly endeavor, but want to seem selfless. I do not like contradictions, and the overly kind/over participating really digs in over time.

As quoted above^
Actions speak louder than words with kindness.
For example (not to sound selfish): I like to help people, but I am often unaware of it in the moment. If somebody has a question that requires solving; I find myself trying to help them solve it without even considering what payoff I receive. I don't do it to feel like I helped, but to solve a problem. I may be inclined to solving problems and thus, my actions may be self-serving in that endeavor. But I do not think of end results or even talk about it; my actions when those situations present themselves are almost involuntary. Most likely I am biased from my own behavior, but there needs to be genuinuity (don't know if that is a real word) for "nice/kind" people. And same goes for intelligence. I'd rather talk to an expert about a topic they don't specialize in than the topic they do. Their thought processes are genuine, but the knowledge doesn't always seem so.

After typing all this; I realize I enjoy honest/genuine people. There seems to be merit in that trait. People who know what they are. There is enough complexities in life and human relationships so any transparency is much appreciated.

 

[PmjPmj]

I tend to 'admire' only those who are leading humanity in part to a brighter future, e.g. Elon Musk.

As for the company I prefer to keep, I tend to prefer intelligent, decent individuals. Whilst kindness isn't an unattractive quality for a person to have, I'm always somewhat distrustful of compassion. Compassionate and kind people have, in my experience, tended to sugar-coat things. I much prefer people who are straight down the line with me, and who can deal with me being equally straight with them.

Dignity - yes. Compassion? Hm.

 

[Not Anyone To Care For]

I admire those who have certain attributes that I lack and people that have changed the world. For me, I admire the poets and musicians who have touched people's hearts and minds as equally as the physicists and mathematicians that shook the foundations of reality as we know it.

We all play our roles in society.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

How unadmirable, Pressure's Spring and Grayman!

Not until one recognizes their faults and apologizes.

Then, yes, respect may spring.

I was once told by someone that respect was treating others the way one would like to be treated.
The way one treats oneself, is the way one would treat others.
The respect one has for oneself, is the respect one will have for others.

I agree. But you must recognize that as an INTJ you have a rage response that 1) you can allow to escalate beyond your control 2) others will attempt to abuse for their own entertainment, from a distance, of course. Understanding this interaction and their actions within it as a sign of weakness is what takes the place of an apology, because they won't give you one.

I do actually believe you'll understand this.

You are so easy to silence.

You really should work on the transparency of the facade (<-This is actual advice pertaining to an actual skill, one that's just poorly directed). The line was clearly drawn.

There are those who are good, but not nice, and those who are nice but not good. Can we really help who we are; or our inclinations toward kindness of heart or strength of mind? I admire those who are true to themselves, be they kind or smart, as long as they are good.

Game theory dictates that dishonesty is circumstantially beneficial to an individual. In scenarios where circumstances can be controlled, sometimes dishonesty is innate and pathological in individuals. Some choose between the two teams, others work with both, others abstain entirely. Identifying which pixel you are in the fractal also conveys an understanding of what contains it.

We all play our roles in society.

 

[redbaron]

Not until one recognizes their faults and apologizes.

lol

 

[Grayman]

You really should work on the transparency of the facade (<-This is actual advice pertaining to an actual skill, one that's just poorly directed). The line was clearly drawn.

What statement would you have suggested?

 

[Hadoblado]

#JesusfuckwhathappenedhereactuallydontcareImofftotheshopsbai

 

[cheese]

Kindness. Used to admire intelligence more then I realised how little I respected people who were intelligent but horrible. I respected their minds but not the people they were. Kindness takes a great deal more effort to continuously practise in my experience.

 

[Reluctantly]

#JesusfuckwhathappenedhereactuallydontcareImofftotheshopsbai

#everyonecaneatshitanddieandthengotoshopsbai

 

[Pressure's Spring]

But you must recognize that as an INTJ you have a rage response that 1) you can allow to escalate beyond your control 2) others will attempt to abuse for their own entertainment, from a distance, of course. Understanding this interaction and their actions within it as a sign of weakness is what takes the place of an apology, because they won't give you one.

I don't need the apology. If it is not granted one simply recognizes where the relationship stands.

What does it matter if an unjust action is a sign of weakness or not?

If boundaries are crossed then that's all there is to it.

If they [boundaries] are not adequately recognized, affirmed, and asserted, then justice is derailed and desensitisation occurs.

What you seem to be suggesting is a passive means for one to save face by employing the sense of a moral high ground; the weaker victim demoralizes his enemy to avoid or deny the pain of recognizing his/her relative weakness or passivity in any given situation thus supplying an imagined sense of power and avoiding the responsibility of a more suitable response, which should be nothing less than aggression, or elimination of what is immoral, in cases where this is not possible, other means may be employed, and always have been (for example, victim groups gaining strength through numbers).

It is also important to note, that false self-declared victims, may also transcend and manipulate boundaries and act unjustly, hence the importance of their [the boundaries] adequate recognition, and thus, we understand that ignorance is a great vice, and should certainly not be awarded with any sympathy.

 

[Grayman]

It is also important to note, that false self-declared victims, may also transcend and manipulate boundaries and act unjustly, hence the importance of their [the boundaries] adequate recognition, and thus, we understand that ignorance is a great vice, and should certainly not be awarded with any sympathy.

Oh I was blatantly fucking with you. No victim card needs to be played. Totally my fault. The one thing I didn't expect was that you'd be so sensitive. That migbt be part of that ego thing though...

 

[Pressure's Spring]

You need to learn to know when to shut up.

You keep making things worse for yourself.

That wasn't directed at you, since you obviously decided to mock me back there, overtly.

It seems you can't stop either, like a child with no self-control. Instead of facing your mistake, you choose to deny it, take pride in it, and repeat it.

Sensitive?

Yes, that is a compliment. You are entirely insensitive. Nothing to be proud of.

 

[Sinny91]

**Sinny stirs the pot...