Do xxFx's affect you?

[BigApplePi]

I'm talking feeling types who openly express their feelings and are good at it. I'm not distinguishing between immature and mature although you may. I just want to point out that Feeling types affect INTP's (who are normally cool to intellectual discussions). Feel free to narrow down that xxFx to something more specific if you wish.

There is a difference between feeling types in your outside life and those who on occasion make an appearance right here on this Forum. I believe the difference is involvement. One can stay cool here about those in your outside life. Here it's different. How do they affect you ... such as you've found? I suggest you do not mention names as that itself creates feeling. Can this topic be discussed and still keep cool?

When I got involved responding to an F type right on this Forum, no one wanted to talk about it ... probably knowing it wasn't going to be a normal "cool" INTP topic. Amazing and true!? I finally worked on my own feelings by disengagement ... that is not talking to or referencing the feeling party who was referencing me.
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Later: Perhaps I can rephrase the OP by asking, how do you deal with hot topics? To an INTP, (who is normally cool) is there such a thing as a hot topic without a hot person being part of it?

 

[snafupants]

Ha, isn't XXFX just over half the planet?

 

[Duxwing]

I'm talking feeling types who openly express their feelings and are good at it. I'm not distinguishing between immature and mature although you may. I just want to point out that Feeling types affect INTP's (who are normally cool to intellectual discussions). Feel free to narrow down that xxFx to something more specific if you wish.

There is a difference between feeling types in your outside life and those who on occasion make an appearance right here on this Forum. I believe the difference is involvement. One can stay cool here about those in your outside life. Here it's different. How do they affect you ... such as you've found? I suggest you do not mention names as that itself creates feeling. Can this topic be discussed and still keep cool?

When I got involved responding to an F type right on this Forum, no one wanted to talk about it ... probably knowing it wasn't going to be a normal "cool" INTP topic. Amazing and true!? I finally worked on my own feelings by disengagement ... that is not talking to or referencing the feeling party who was referencing me.

Hey man, are you feeling OK? You sound like you're bitter or hurt. *concerned look* If my saying so helps you feel better, then I'd feel that way, too if I got entangled with someone like that.

As for my own relations to Feelers, I see them as an interesting bunch. An ISFP was one of my best friends for a long time. I'd provide the logic, she'd provide the silly, and we both had a great time. I think that if I weren't so existentially messed up and if she weren't so ugly (like an ape, only white with orange hair and buck teeth) I'd ask her out.

But I've also found that Feelers, especially F-leads, tend to get beaten up badly over the course of their lives. That ISFP girl was already rather kooky when I met her, and I can hardly imagine how she might degrade over time. Overall, I recommend maintaining a safe distance from those who have our inferior function high in their stack until we have mastered our own functions.

-Duxwing

 

[BigApplePi]

Hey man, are you feeling OK? You sound like you're bitter or hurt. *concerned look*... Overall, I recommend maintaining a safe distance from those who have our inferior function high in their stack until we have mastered our own functions.-Duxwing

@Duxwing. Thank you for your concern. You mean I introduce a thread about feelers ... I'm interested in their power in a general way and how it might relate to INTP's and my own feelings leaked through? I'll have to do a better job at hiding them.

@snafu

Ha, isn't XXFX just over half the planet?

Yes. Exactly. If feelers are so prominent, it must be important for thinkers to know how to relate to them. If thinkers can think better and feelers can push values better, how important is it who wins out? How do we decide who should win out? If I had proposed xxFJ's better instead which I forgot to do, that would be a quarter of the planet.
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To answer Duxwing, not bitter, but I was offended and pissed but only temporarily. Feelings can be transient depending on what's going on. In interacting with a feeler I had "thinking" issues which conflicted with their feeling ones. I wanted to push my thought objections/different views to him and he wanted to push what I thought were incomplete thoughts. He didn't like that and took to what I would call spreading half-lies. That is they were true from a feeling value point, but not true from a thinking point.

In your case Duxwing, the girl you gave an example of didn't seem to interact with you thinking-wise or hinder your thinking. In my case I was being silenced else I had to put up a fight and be disruptive.
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FJ: Plan A is great. It's wonderful and will fix everything.
INTP: I thought about this and from what you are after, what about Plan B or Plan C. I thought about those too and Plan D is eligible.

FJ: You think too much. Those other ideas are rubbish and suck.
INTP: Show me the rubbish. I've even come up with Plan E which Plan A doesn't do.

FJ: You are being disruptive and ignorant. I'm not going to get involved with all that %&@$ which is what you are. You are too lazy to look at Plan A which is the right one.
INTP:

 

[Duxwing]

@Duxwing. Thank you for your concern. You mean I introduce a thread about feelers ... I'm interested in their power in a general way and how it might relate to INTP's and my own feelings leaked through? I'll have to do a better job at hiding them.

@snafuYes. Exactly. If feelers are so prominent, it must be important for thinkers to know how to relate to them. If thinkers can think better and feelers can push values better, how important is it who wins out? How do we decide who should win out? If I had proposed xxFJ's better instead which I forgot to do, that would be a quarter of the planet.
_________________________________
To answer Duxwing, not bitter, but I was offended and pissed but only temporarily. Feelings can be transient depending on what's going on. In interacting with a feeler I had "thinking" issues which conflicted with their feeling ones. I wanted to push my thought objections/different views to him and he wanted to push what I thought were incomplete thoughts. He didn't like that and took to what I would call spreading half-lies. That is they were true from a feeling value point, but not true from a thinking point.

In your case Duxwing, the girl you gave an example of didn't seem to interact with you thinking-wise or hinder your thinking. In my case I was being silenced else I had to put up a fight and be disruptive.
===========================

FJ: Plan A is great. It's wonderful and will fix everything.
INTP: I thought about this and from what you are after, what about Plan B or Plan C. I thought about those too and Plan D is eligible.

FJ: You think too much. Those other ideas are rubbish and suck.
INTP: Show me the rubbish. I've even come up with Plan E which Plan A doesn't do.

FJ: You are being disruptive and ignorant. I'm not going to get involved with all that %&@$ which is what you are. You are too lazy to look at Plan A which is the right one.
INTP:

On the other hand, an FJ can be like a warm blanket. Provided that you aren't in the way of their Ni-vision, their Fe can be quite pleasant and emotionally insightful. Of course, when in the way of their Ni-vision, never back down.

-Duxwing

 

[TheScornedReflex]

Or the:
FJ: Don't you think? Can't you see this plan is perfect?!

Me: Don't I think? Have I not just pointed out potential flaws with your plan and come up with solutions? And a more effective course of action? If that isn't thinking then what is?

FJ: Stop being a smart ass! Those "flaws" are all in your head. The plan is perfect. It WILL work.

Me: Smart ass?! How the...? Okay have it your way.

FJ: Help, help! Its not working. The plan, it was perfect. This is your fault. You didn't do it right!

Me: Go fuck yourself! Oh wait. You already have! Hah!

Followed by me almost being fired.

 

[MichiganJFrog]

The INTPs of the world quietly and methodically clean up the messes made by the confident FJs who forge ahead with their poorly thought-out plans. Whether they get any credit for it is another matter.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

The majority of my relationships with F types are similar to the majority of my relationships with T types, in that I hold most everyone at arms length without too much emotion showing through.

That said, there are certain relationships with F types that have affected me in terms of my emotions. For starters, I have an ENFP and another INFP friend with whom I have discussed and shared my emotions with them as they have with me, as that is what people in close, healthy relationships do. Beyond that I've only ever met two people (both F types) that ever really unlocked emotions within me to the point where they overpowered (hindered could be used, but isn't completely accurate) my thinking and dictated my actions.

With both these people (one was some sort of ENFx, iirc. And the other I woud guess was an INFP and most definitely an F) it just got easier for me to express myself around them. I would maybe change the way I phrased things to be a little more along the lines of what they wanted to hear than the blunt truth (not that I ever lied, but I "softened" the truth sometimes). It's a bit hard to describe, now that I look back on it. It was an odd mix of contentment and paranoid anxiety, one that I don't look forward to feeling again, at least in the context I've felt it before (it'd be nice if, in the future, whoever I happen to feel this way for reciprocates the same feelings for me).

In less 'serious' situations, I would say I act a little warmer towards F types, predominantly FJs. I think it's something about the shared Fe that can take me out and I can physically feel my face relaxing and I smile more and more warmly around them. For example, I act much more extraverted and friendly around this one ENFJ I know, whereas I'm still physically reserved and visibly inexpressive around my aforementioned ENFP and INFP friends (the ENFJ is female, as opposed to the other two, so that may have an effect, although not one that I consciously choose or endorse). Something about Fe types just strikes me as being friendly and warm and that unconsciously causes me to reciprocate (the VI typers as well as pod'lair folks mention how smiles work themselves into the eyes or stay predominantly around the mouth. Around these extreverted feeling types, I consciously feel my smile working into my eyes a lot more, even if an Fe type versus some other type were to tell a joke of equal amusement).

 

[SpaceYeti]

An important thing to remember is that Feeling types are not necessarily, or even commonly, less rational than thinking types. They simply value it less than emotional harmony, thus use their reasoning with that goal, whereas our goal is knowledge. I know several feelers whom I respect deeply.

Yeah, that's about all I have to add.

 

[TriflinThomas]

An important thing to remember is that Feeling types are not necessarily, or even commonly, less rational than thinking types. They simply value it less than emotional harmony, thus use their reasoning with that goal

This.

 

[Solitaire U.]

I'd like to say that F -types are my teachers...but they're more like my window into that which I'm resigned to never fully experiencing.

 

[Duxwing]

I'd like to say that F -types are my teachers...but they're more like my window into that which I'm resigned to never fully experiencing.

And they likely think the same of us. Really, we can say that about all the types: each can teach the other something new.

-Duxwing

 

[Ink]

The only non-F type I've been "romantically interested" in was an INTP, so yes I find F types more attractive... Mainly ENFJs and ESFPs

Edit: sorry read attract not affect, hehe

 

[BigApplePi]

Who is more truthful? Primary feeling types or primary thinking types? That is, who can tell the better truth and if one lies, who wins?

I just finished watching the 1996 film, "The Crucible", with Daneil Day-Lewis and Winona Ryder. This film can be interpreted as a battle between feeling and reason. If you think thinking is so powerful as a good thinker can always win out, think again.

During the Joe McCarthy era (1950's) if you were accused of being a Communist or a "fellow traveler" that accusation was enough to ruin you. Why does reason have such a tough time winning out against hostile feelings: Isn't this a very tough a question to answer ... or can we get at it?

 

[Cybeny]

For me, I tend to relate to Feelers a lot better than Thinkers. I think this is because my family is 3 xxFx's.

Interestingly enough though, I think all the females I've been attracted to in the past have had Fe in their functional stack. Those with it higher in their stack I feel kinda warm and safe with, and those with it lower I end up clashing with their emotions quite a lot. I think I kinda enjoy the clashes though

 

[BigApplePi]

For me, I tend to relate to Feelers a lot better than Thinkers. I think this is because my family is 3 xxFx's.

Interestingly enough though, I think all the females I've been attracted to in the past have had Fe in their functional stack. Those with it higher in their stack I feel kinda warm and safe with, and those with it lower I end up clashing with their emotions quite a lot. I think I kinda enjoy the clashes though

If you happen to think contrary to an aggressive feeler, they can overpower you and I wonder if that is what happens?

 

[Cybeny]

If you happen to think contrary to an aggressive feeler, they can overpower you and I wonder if that is what happens?

That actually sounds pretty accurate. One of my best friends is an ESFJ, and whenever I'm around her, my mood kinda moulds around hers. If she's happy or excited about something, I feel that way as well. If she's sad or upset, I feel sorry for her, and try and find some way to cheer her up (Which generally fails miserably)

 

[Duxwing]

I find the INFJ type particularly interesting. They aren't dramatists like the Fe-doms; rather, they also exude a calm that lets me let my feelings out without too much worry of being judged or hurt. Indeed, my experiences of talking to INFJ's, provided that they aren't Ni-wingnuts, has often been like a snuggling a pillow in a bed that never gets too hot.

I wish that INTP's could do the same for them without hurting their feelings.

-Duxwing

 

[Etheri]

Ha, isn't XXFX just over half the planet?

I honestly think feelers are more common than thinkers, as extraverts are more common than introverts. I don't have any data, this is just an idea in my head.

Who is more truthful? Primary feeling types or primary thinking types? That is, who can tell the better truth and if one lies, who wins?

I often get the idea that F types lie to themselves constantly, especially when stressed or worrying. Then again, I'm not sure if it holds 'more true' for feelers than for thinkers, I might just be biased.

As far as F and T goes... Most of my 'friends', as in those people I hang out with, are F types. There are two ESFJ females (oh the terror) in particular who trust me with just about anything. (I made the mistake of trusting one of them with my darker INTP secrets, but she ended up being angry for a couple of weeks. Appearantly, i'm an immoral bastard. I learnt my lesson.)

I know I can't talk to them about what plays in my head. I know they're not those people, and I can live with that (... I won't deny it bothers me at times.) However, they're SO EASY TO STAY FRIENDS WITH. They'll ask me to hang out, and I can simply go whenever I feel like it, rather than me ever having to take initiative myself. They supply me with love, affection and... class notes and summaries and people to drink with, laugher and all that stuff. I hate how they'll never understand me, but at the same time... I'm glad i've got them. They're fairly reliable in the sense that they're very predictable. They're like pets, as long as you feed them just enough love and affection to stick around, and they'll give you back any love and affection and quite a bunch additional benefits. But just like pets, you shouldn't talk to them too seriously. So just keep in mind never to talk about anything that goes on inside your head, they'll hate you for it.

I have F friends for laugher, fun and social time. I have T friends for thoughts, good talks, advice. I've got this forum and some other places for in depth thinking, introversion and reflection. I've given up on searching everything in that one perfect person... Even if i'd find an INTP just like me, it'd be pretty hard to sync our social and asocial cycles. So instead, I just find diffrent groups people forfilling some of my needs, and rely on them accordingly. It's so much easier.

Tl dr: Most of the world are mindless feelers. It's not all too bad as long as you know what they're good for, and what to avoid.

 

[BigApplePi]

Thinkers vs Feelers

Yours (Etheri) is a helplful message on how thinkers might deal with feelers who are close to them and those one wishes to be close to. Next would come the feelers in our larger life: work, acquaintances, the world at large.

I honestly think feelers are more common than thinkers, as extraverts are more common than introverts. I don't have any data, this is just an idea in my head.

Don't know.

I often get the idea that F types lie to themselves constantly, especially when stressed or worrying. Then again, I'm not sure if it holds 'more true' for feelers than for thinkers, I might just be biased.

Lie as to literal logical truth as a thinker might look at it or lie as to what they feel (that word) is important to them or others?

As far as F and T goes... Most of my 'friends', as in those people I hang out with, are F types. There are two ESFJ females (oh the terror) in particular who trust me with just about anything. (I made the mistake of trusting one of them with my darker INTP secrets, but she ended up being angry for a couple of weeks. Appearantly, i'm an immoral bastard. I learnt my lesson.)

This may be my underlying reason for this thread. Can I generalize by saying that thinkers deal with abstractions? Those abstractions are not "warm." Thinkers know how to handle things independent of feelings. Feelers make the logical mistake of assigning values when and where they are not meant to be. Any thinker would be aware of alternatives while feelers take them to heart. That means thinkers must be cautious about sharing.

I know I can't talk to them about what plays in my head. I know they're not those people, and I can live with that (... I won't deny it bothers me at times.) However, they're SO EASY TO STAY FRIENDS WITH. They'll ask me to hang out, and I can simply go whenever I feel like it, rather than me ever having to take initiative myself. They supply me with love, affection and... class notes and summaries and people to drink with, laugher and all that stuff. I hate how they'll never understand me, but at the same time... I'm glad i've got them. They're fairly reliable in the sense that they're very predictable. They're like pets, as long as you feed them just enough love and affection to stick around, and they'll give you back any love and affection and quite a bunch additional benefits. But just like pets, you shouldn't talk to them too seriously. So just keep in mind never to talk about anything that goes on inside your head, they'll hate you for it.

So perhaps feelers provide things that make this world worthwhile. But at the same time, how can they be controlled so they don't destroy the world at the same time?

I have F friends for laugher, fun and social time. I have T friends for thoughts, good talks, advice. I've got this forum and some other places for in depth thinking, introversion and reflection. I've given up on searching everything in that one perfect person... Even if i'd find an INTP just like me, it'd be pretty hard to sync our social and asocial cycles. So instead, I just find diffrent groups people forfilling some of my needs, and rely on them accordingly. It's so much easier.

Tl dr: Most of the world are mindless feelers. It's not all too bad as long as you know what they're good for, and what to avoid.

This sounds all too good if thinkers and feelers can be kept separate. The problem is when they can't.

Feelers have arrived on this board on rare occasion. IMO they are immediately noticed and can cause quite a stir. How are we to deal with them? How would INTP's or other thinkers (xxTx's) interact with feelers without getting into trouble? Do you notice how I could be far more specific but am holding back? That must be because up to now I've been unable to ferret out my own feelings and feelings of other thinkers.

I forgot I do have a situation where I can be more specific. (Do you have one?) I saw "The Crucible" last night on film. (A problem for this thread is not everyone knows the story.) The townspeople in 1600's Salem Massachusetts had lots of feelings. Some were accused of being witches. (We must accept the premise witches are real.) The thing went to trial where the judges applied the best logic they could to determine witch guilt. The problem for the townspeople was hanging dozens of innocent people made matters (feelings) a lot worse. Yet the main judge was an ultra cool thinker ... played by Paul Scofield (ENTx). The very best townspeople couldn't outdo his logic, yet there was a big flaw in his logic: He didn't know how to read feelers.

 

[SpaceYeti]

I sometimes get in trouble for not sharing my problems. I don't want people to stress out about things they can't do anything about, but because I'm worried about them, they feel like they need to worry about them as well. They see it as... I don't know... like keeping a secret. I guess it technically is keeping a secret, but my intentions are ignored. If asked about it, I share, of course. I know what it's like when people don't simply answer a question you want answered. Irritating. At the same time, I don't go around broadcasting my problems because, frankly, they're my problems. I have to deal with them, and talking about them isn't solving them. Unless I'm confused about them and looking for advice, talking about them does nothing except cause other people to worry.