Do we get dumber with age?

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

I feel like I was smarter when I was seven than I am now at seventeen.

Sure I have more knowledge and experience but I was more creative, learned faster, and could solve math problems faster than I can now.

Don't get me wrong, I was doing algebra back then.

 

[nanook]

depends. the common problem of the dying mind can be solved spiritually, but usually it isn't. real life intelligence is, within the limits of a physically healthy brain, mostly a matter of motivation. identification is a possible expression of motivation. but motivation can also give up on clingy pointed identifications. real life stupidity is a clinging mind, it's the motivation of fear or anger, essentially wanting to be in control. society encourages stupidity, in that sense. childs are playful. fear is a learned paradigm.

 

[snafupants]

depends. the common problem of the dying mind can be solved spiritually, but usually it isn't. real life intelligence is, within the limits of a physically healthy brain, mostly a matter of motivation. identification is a possible expression of motivation. but motivation can also give up on clingy pointed identifications. real life stupidity is a clinging mind, it's the motivation of fear or anger, essentially wanting to be in control. society encourages stupidity, in that sense. childs are playful. fear is a learned paradigm.

@nanook

Learned from whom? How? When? Animals, for the record, are capable of fear.

 

[nanook]

leaned from experience, but experience interpreted through a paradigm of what matters in our social world.

i don't mean the emotion itself, i mean how you take it into account in how you define your interests and believes, the product of fear so to say. you are clearly encouraged to be careful, preparing your self (as in horting a dead set of strategies, which goes against curiosity and creativity) and such. our "interpretation" of fear multiplies culturally. if you were fearless, you would be an outsider. fearful people (like myself) are paranoid about the fearless. luckily i'm not fearful in every hindsight. so i have some creative freedom left. i just restrict it to what fits into the quarantine of what i call "living in my head". this so called "head" is what doesn't participate in society. i'm a genius inside, and a literal idiot, outwardly.

(btw i am aware that the causal chain doesn't literally start some place, like "society", that's not the point i'm making, to the contrary: i say clingy emotions of control (fear, greed, anger) can be overcome, a learning of the same intelligence, that may have learned to incorporate such motivations into every interest)

 

[Absurdity]

I sure feel like I have. Could be all the drinking I've done.

I also spend a lot more time at the computer and less time reading. I feel like it reduces my attention span immensely, hopping back and forth between tabs and checking texts and emails on my phone. I want to unplug for a while with some good books and a pad of paper, and have long thoughts again.

 

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

I want to unplug for a while with some good books and a pad of paper, and have long thoughts again.

Yea, same.

 

[snafupants]

leaned from experience, but experience interpreted through a paradigm of what matters in our social world.

i don't mean the emotion itself, i mean how you take it into account in how you define your interests and believes, the product of fear so to say. you are clearly encouraged to be careful, preparing your self (as in horting a dead set of strategies, which goes against curiosity and creativity) and such. our "interpretation" of fear multiplies culturally. if you were fearless, you would be an outsider. fearful people (like myself) are paranoid about the fearless. luckily i'm not fearful in every hindsight. so i have some creative freedom left. i just restrict it to what fits into the quarantine of what i call "living in my head". this so called "head" is what doesn't participate in society. i'm a genius inside, and a literal idiot, outwardly.

(btw i am aware that the causal chain doesn't literally start some place, like "society", that's not the point i'm making, to the contrary: i say clingy emotions of control (fear, greed, anger) can be overcome, a learning of the same intelligence, that may have learned to incorporate such motivations into every interest)

That seems more like respectability or peer pressure than fear per se.

 

[nanook]

don't focus on fear, that's just one emotional manifestation or face of control (anger, greed, jealousy ...), control being the attempt to define yourself, to make yourself into something apparent, because that is supposed to be an advantage in the world, be it society or nature.

in my book, the very definition of genius is love for what is, as the neutralising of opposite qualities of control like fear, greed anger, within the context of what you are a genius about, what you love. and the coherency and integrity of thought that ar the result of such love: un-dividedness, honesty.

emotions of control are a contraction, they create division, meaning projection, the enemy inside, whom you try to outsmart, meaning dissociated intelligence, self-righteousness, a self-image that defines itself as perfect through perfect ignorance, meaning effective real world stupidity.

by definition i can say, that i am a genius within the realm of what i love, however tiny that realm may be. i don't care about meaningless definitions of the word genius, such as someone with a certain IQ number (who nukes japan, because he is really a fucking moron full of hate) or someone who is appreciated by society for providing something useful.

the word genius reminds me of genie in a bottle, it's a certain spirit, meaning attitude or internal posture, a conFIGURation of mind. a STATE of mind, not it's size. the genie in the bottle is rich and effortlessly so, he is overflowing.

the genius is very playful, he isn't driven by a certain outcome, he basically wants to get his head around something for no specific reason. that's love. and that is often not enough for society. unless you stand out and they want you to save them. the average sized genius is nothing. he has to create himself into something fake, something that is of lesser intelligence compared to his inner genius. something with "ambition" as they call it, something dead that eats brains, in order to be recognized. sell himself as they call it. sell humanity.

 

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

I'll try to condense what you have said:

My decline of brainpower has been contributed to by a loss of health, motivation, and the development of negative emotions.

Such statements should be obvious to me and yet... My real problem was probably the fact that I never bothered to ask myself the same question that I am asking you, a question that I could have easily answered myself.

Perhaps the real secret to awakening my inner genius is to simply ask myself more questions rather than relying on the internet for everything. As Absurdity said, I need to get away from my computer and just spend some time to think about things like I did when I was younger.

 

[intpz]

Could be, I feel like I'm dumber too. Can't calculate shit nowadays, which I used to be able to do real fast. Same with memory and other things.

I theorize that my case is related to significantly poorer health.

 

[Ink]

Math and similar stuff was new and fascinating when we were young, now it is not so we don't put as much effort in. You could also see it as now our Ne is kicking in, guiding our Ti to focus on many things instead of only one.

 

[nanook]

you know, i'm 35 and you are what 17? when i was 21 i saw people at age 35 beginning to figure out things slowly. i thought i should be faster, im that introverted psychology geek after all, i shall gonna figure out things right now! but somehow i didn't. i just made up some more bullshit for a hand-full of years. we arrive at wisdom by unlearning the stupid shit we come up with, while using our rational mind. half of wisdom (maybe a lot more) is becoming immune to our previous mistakes. that happens after we experience how what we made up just doesn't work the way we hoped it would work. then life becomes quite simple, on a higher level. asking us questions is mainly the way, by which we evoke our mind to construct more unwise fake philosophy. a child doesn't try to understand how he ought to handle himself. his perception goes outward, he just wants to explore the world. not much can go wrong with that. but of course it's limited and we have to go through the challenge of becoming self aware. we do so by poking the shit out of our self-concept and creating a whole lot of suffering. and then we have to let go again. self-concepts are impotent. life is larger than the individual and it carries us allright, if we allow it. ideally we do a little bit of both, all the time: some self-poking, then letting go again. depending on your cognitive functions it may look different for you, but i believe asking more questions is rather the opposite of letting go. the genius is surprised by his creativity. he stumbles into success. he just plays outwardly or speculates in imagination, daydreams of sorts. he mostly enjoys himself. einstein was said to think a problem through until he had had reached the end of possible thoughts given the data, then he would give it up for intuition, he'd basically forget about it and fool around with something else. then things fall into place, some how. but less genial people won't let go, they poke into their method ad infinitum, repeat it with more and more data, expect more revealing results, and creates something crazy. i give up. i don't know the solution! i can't figure it out! my figuring creates clouds that obstruct the solution. i have seen that often enough. i'm done. thy will be done. but i figure out more ways of letting go. i try to become aware more of opportunities for that. i ask myself: what the hell am i doing here? isn't that just another one of those old routines of my zombie self? have i not done that 1000times before? how can i stop doing this shit? what in me is different? what is new? it doesn't have to make sense, it doesn't have to be promising something else / reveal what could come from it, at this point everything seems better than zombie mind, everything will teach me something. and my genius is a good student, he will make something awesome out of it, effortlessly. there is no one here to take responsibility for life. life animates the self-experience, not the other way round.

 

[Architect]

Physiologically, while we used to believe that neurons don't grow during our lifetime, we now know that they do. Obviously they must or we couldn't acquire new skills. Despite that we know that some people lose mental capacity as they get older. This is due to physical issues (physical damage in the brain due to age - which we don't know the cause of yet but is probably environmental) and sometimes seems to be due to environmental issues (not enough stimulation).

OK, putting that aside, I think the answer is somewhat yes, but for a particular reason. I've noticed that my raw mental abilities seem to have increased as I get older, but that I'm somewhat less willing to use them. When I was young I was 'hungry and wanting to prove myself'. As an oldster I'm a bit more interesting in enjoying rather than proving myself. Something that becomes obvious as you age is how short life is, and the genetic programming (which it apparently is) you have as a youngster starts to fade.

There's also a proximity effect, which is school. School, particularly college or grad, does push you and I find I am smarter when taking a class. When I was younger I was in school more often than now when I take an online class occasionally.

 

[intpz]

Math and similar stuff was new and fascinating when we were young, now it is not so we don't put as much effort in. You could also see it as now our Ne is kicking in, guiding our Ti to focus on many things instead of only one.

Math wasn't fascinating to me when I was young, nor it is now, and I've never tried putting any effort into it. Now I do as I fail at what I could do, and I still can't do it.

I was never focused on only one thing too, especially maths. I am talking about simple logical calculations, things that don't require long formulas. I'm talking about the stuff that can be solved with some logic instead of a formula. That's the only things that I used to calculate in math class anyway, I never liked formulas, they hold no interest for me.

There's also a proximity effect, which is school. School, particularly college or grad, does push you and I find I am smarter when taking a class. When I was younger I was in school more often than now when I take an online class occasionally.

Personally, I wasn't pushed by school. I went through it with grades ranging from the worst possible to the best possible, all from the stuff that I read at home on the internet, in English. If I'd count the times when I actually memorized some useless shit for half an hour just before class and then forgot about it, I'd still have enough fingers left to jack off and scratch my ass.

 

[hablahdoo]

I experienced the feeling of lack of clarity in thought all throughout high school. I didn't take note of it at the time but I was extremely stressed and sleep deprived. I only noticed how much it mattered once I started getting better sleep and learning how to stay calm (breathing, meditation). Right now at 20 I feel far sharper than I was in the last several years. Regardless of my story's validity I think it's worth considering other factors before pinning your perceived decline on age alone.

 

[Moocow]

When we're younger we have more difficulty realizing how naive and premature our conclusions are so the emotions of certainty and pride may give you the illusion of having become dumber with their decline.

 

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

Perhaps, thanks for your opinions.

 

[Etheri]

I sure feel like I have. Could be all the drinking I've done.

Yup. But honestly, i'm not sure which is the better solution, wine or thoughts, they're in such a pretty symbiosis.

I want to unplug for a while with some good books and a pad of paper, and have long thoughts again.

I've been considering to go trek through sweden for a while, but haven't made work of it yet. (Typical INTP, i'll do it,... later? I'm honestly going to do it, tho, if I just get the chance.) Walk, think, clear my mind. No cell reception, seeing at most a few strangers a day, probably from a distance. Only actually talking to people every few days. Just me, nature and my thoughts.

That's the only things that I used to calculate in math class anyway, I never liked formulas, they hold no interest for me.

I find maths VERY interesting. But, as with you, formulas are quite an issue for me. I often have to derrive them again during exams, simply because I forgot. Goniometrics... Stokes and divergence rules, the simplest of equations in physics, i'll honestly forget them. I know i shouldn't, but I do. That being said, I've always loved the logic and insight of maths. I'd be concerned with understanding 'how' the maths works, not with the technicallities. Problems interested me once they got 'more' than mindlessly plugging in some formulas.

Personally, I wasn't pushed by school. I went through it with grades ranging from the worst possible to the best possible, all from the stuff that I read at home on the internet, in English. If I'd count the times when I actually memorized some useless shit for half an hour just before class and then forgot about it, I'd still have enough fingers left to jack off and scratch my ass.

I usually studied for tests during earlier classes the same day. Or on the bus there... if i could be bothered. I've failed tests. The easiest of tests. Not because I couldn't, just because ... I didn't care? Because I knew I could do it, and i'd pass the class... Arogance, in a way? Also, both my french and my german are absolutely awful. (I passed the exams every year, but bare with bare minima).

I feel like I tend to just 'live up to the standards'. Going from highschool to uni was quite the jump, and for half a year, I actually struggled to understand and comprehend everything, despite it not being the hardest things, the pace was truly high, and ofcourse the sudden totally new environment aswell as moving out. After that first halfyear, i'd found my ways, learned to deal and cope with it, next term was harder, but went on rolls. Second year, first term got even lazier, and it just keeps going on like that. In a way, I'll just always be walking the edge, not feeling the need to do more than the bare minima required for my classes. That being said, I WILL read, know and fully understand ANYTHING I find interesting. Doesn't mean i'll actually do a single excercise on the subject, I just want to understand the theory.

 

[intpz]

I have more or less similar point of view when applied to classes. One of the reasons I am not excited about college next year, or not regretting much that I've missed it this year, even though the initial mistake wasn't mine.

 

[envirodude]

I would say I feel dumber now (45) than I did when I was, say 25. I assume this is pretty normal as brain cells die off (and are butchered by accumulated recreational chemicals). The INTP mode of learning, i.e. total conceptual mastery, has been beneficial, as I still remember a lot of stuff from school even though I may not have used it. The usual characterisation is that what you lose in raw fire power, you make up for in wisdom. Wisdom, a product of refection on accumulated experience as I see it, definitely increases the "shades of grey" that enter into analysis. I'm far less likely to state my position in absolutes now than I was then - this can give the illusion of uncertainty and hence lack of knowledge, when really, it was the certainty of youth that was the illusion, I believe.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I feel like I was smarter when I was seven than I am now at seventeen.

Sure I have more knowledge and experience but I was more creative, learned faster, and could solve math problems faster than I can now.

I'm clearly aware that I have more knowledge and experience than when I was younger though for example I don't have an interest in reading books as much as I used to. It's like a lack of intellectual curiosity or motivation, I kind of feel mentally exhausted. Not sure if that is the same thing you want to say.

 

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

Yea, mentally exhausted might be the right. I did actually read a lot of books when I was younger, most of which were fiction. Nowadays I read a lot less books but all of them are non fiction.

 

[Sovereign]

Isn't it true that when we were younger that we had a greater capacity to learn then we do now due to how our brains have developed throughout the years. It might be possible that when we gain knowledge we lose the desire to learn?

 

[Solitaire U.]

I feel like I was smarter when I was seven than I am now at seventeen.

That's probably accurate...17 is near the peak of human idiocy.

But don't worry. Just keep fucking/masturbating and by 35 you'll by mostly purged of it. By 40, you'll be basking in sheer genius, and inducing a stroke trying to cope with all the sheer stupidity around you.

 

[Solitaire U.]

Isn't it true that when we were younger that we had a greater capacity to learn then we do now due to how our brains have developed throughout the years. It might be possible that when we gain knowledge we lose the desire to learn?

I'd wager that's false. My professional opinion: With pre-teen kids, what appears to be a greater capacity to learn is actually nothing more than greater ambition, fueled by things like curiosity, etc. Up to around age 13, it's not who you know, it's how much you know.

All of that good shit comes to a screeching halt at puberty. Post 13 kids appear to lose, not the capacity to learn, but the capacity to give a shit about learning. A lot of teens develop this facade of having mastered everything they need to know to get along in life, but what's actually hiding behind it is a preoccupation with a) self and b) fitting in to the social construct. Academic learning and learning through social experience tend to mix like oil and water at this stage. No fault per se, but god damn it's easy to hate teens when you're a teacher. In short, now it's not what you know, but who/how many you know vs. who you are.

At any rate, it seems to bounce back in the early twenties.

Just my op, tho.

 

[scorpiomover]

I feel like I was smarter when I was seven than I am now at seventeen.

Sure I have more knowledge and experience but I was more creative, learned faster, and could solve math problems faster than I can now.

Don't get me wrong, I was doing algebra back then.

I watched a BBC Horizon science programme on intelligence a while back. They took some British pensioners who had taken the 11-Plus, got them to do another equivalent test, and then calculated their IQ scores from back when they were 11, to the present day. They had a rise of approximately 10 IQ points, from being a kid, to being an old age pensioner. So it seems like the scientific evidence shows us that we get smarter as you get older.

 

[ℜεмїηїs¢εη¢ε]

That's probably accurate...17 is near the peak of human idiocy.

But don't worry. Just keep fucking/masturbating and by 35 you'll by mostly purged of it. By 40, you'll be basking in sheer genius, and inducing a stroke trying to cope with all the sheer stupidity around you.

Good, I have something to look forward to.

I watched a BBC Horizon science programme on intelligence a while back. They took some British pensioners who had taken the 11-Plus, got them to do another equivalent test, and then calculated their IQ scores from back when they were 11, to the present day. They had a rise of approximately 10 IQ points, from being a kid, to being an old age pensioner. So it seems like the scientific evidence shows us that we get smarter as you get older.

Interesting...