Do INTPs and ENTJs mix well?

[ashitaria]

See question.

 

[flow]

If by mix you mean argue, than yes.

 

[ashitaria]

Ah...

Because it says in the profile that ENTPs are hard to argue with, and I'm wondering if there are any ENTPs over here....

 

[Ermine]

Anyone can mix with anyone. But theoretically speaking, I think they can be quite complementary assuming they have learned to appreciate each other's strengths.

 

[transformers]

In my experience, no. ENTJ's are very bossy, and INTPs typically hate to be controlled. They are both intellectuals though, and can enjoy abstract discussions.

 

[Adymus]

They can mix extremely well (And in my opinion are the best team up for an INTP) if they are willing to.

The ENTJ and the INTP essentially both have the exact same priorities when solving a problem or accomplishing a task (Thinking first Intuition second), and they approach these tasks with their corresponding Adaptive and directive versions of their functions. The INTP will care most about how strong the logic is in a model, and then the possibilities of what this model can do; and then an ENTJ will care most about how effectively the model will be executed, and where this model is going in the long run. thus their two best functions can be used in complete synergy. Neither of them will be drained by the other (At least not by anything other than an introvert's usually drain from articulating.), and neither will force the other to do any tasks that are uncomfortable for them outside of their own terms.

 

[ashitaria]

They can mix extremely well (And in my opinion are the best team up for an INTP) if they are willing to.

The ENTJ and the INTP essentially both have the exact same priorities when solving a problem or accomplishing a task (Thinking first Intuition second), and they approach these tasks with their corresponding Adaptive and directive versions of their functions. The INTP will care most about how strong the logic is in a model, and then the possibilities of what this model can do; and then an ENTJ will care most about how effectively the model will be executed, and where this model is going in the long run. thus their two best functions can be used in complete synergy. Neither of them will be drained by the other (At least not by anything other than an introvert's usually drain from articulating.), and neither will force the other to do any tasks that are uncomfortable for them outside of their own terms.

Ah, that's good. It means that there won't be any conflict for me.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Adymus]

Ah, that's good. It means that there won't be any conflict for me.

Thanks for the information.

Sometimes you might have to put them in their place, but they will love you for it if you can increase the efficiency of their plan with your Ti.

 

[ashitaria]

Sometimes you might have to put them in their place, but they will love you for it if you can increase the efficiency of their plan with your Ti.

I'll keep that in mind. Though I'm not intelligent, I have a lot of knowledge -for my age.

 

[flow]

hmm, well, the ENTJs I know drain me quite easily. If we get into a debate (which frequently break out) I find myself having to speak extremely carefully and self-consciously. I mean it's bad enough to have to listen to myself and to find the faults in my logic, but when I've got someone else doing it as well it's just not fun. I think ENTJs are tremendous allies, but man, they wear me out. This could be due to my potential INFPness. I mean I much prefer the company and compatibility with an ENFJ, and I'm a pretty feely person myself.. either way, the real key to compatibility is understanding each others strengths and weaknesses, and finding a way to grow together.

 

[ashitaria]

hmm, well, the ENTJs I know drain me quite easily. If we get into a debate (which frequently break out) I find myself having to speak extremely carefully and self-consciously. I mean it's bad enough to have to listen to myself and to find the faults in my logic, but when I've got someone else doing it as well it's just not fun. I think ENTJs are tremendous allies, but man, they wear me out. This could be due to my potential INFPness. I mean I much prefer the company and compatibility with an ENFJ, and I'm a pretty feely person myself.. either way, the real key to compatibility is understanding each others strengths and weaknesses, and finding a way to grow together.

I have learned that in a debate, I have learned by experience only to analyze my own sentences after the debate. You don't have to contradict yourself when there are already people doing the job for you. I usually "win" debates though, except that I find alot of faults with my reasoning afterwords.

 

[echoplex]

There is something attractive yet intimidating about ENTJs. I want to pick their brain, but I know they will likely feel intellectually superior to me, even if they aren't. And it seems that alot of effort has to be made to earn their respect before they'll even listen to a word you say.

Still, when compared to the INTJ, the advantages are that they will at least speak their mind more openly, and their Ni takes a backseat, making them actually more likely to consider your opinions. Then again, it's possible they just won't shut up too.

 

[ashitaria]

There is something attractive yet intimidating about ENTJs. I want to pick their brain, but I know they will likely feel intellectually superior to me, even if they aren't. And it seems that alot of effort has to be made to earn their respect before they'll even listen to a word you say.

Still, when compared to the INTJ, the advantages are that they will at least speak their mind more openly, and their Ni takes a backseat, making them actually more likely to consider your opinions. Then again, it's possible they just won't shut up too.

Information from actual experience I presume?
From what I read from the profile though, I don't really think too highly of them. Call me hard-headed or arrogant but....

 

[Cavallier]

If the ENTJ in question is a healthy and well developed person then all you really need to do is gain the ENTJ's respect and be direct with him/her. Being direct and backing up your opinions logically is all you need in order to gain respect...in my experience at least.

All I can do in this thread is relate my experiences. Every person is different and I've heard there are a lot of ENTJs out there who are jerks.

How about a bulleted list? Sure. Everyone likes a lists!

Spoiler

* ENTJs are intense. If you ask their opinion they will give it. The more socially and emotionally developed ones will keep quiet if they think their opinion will hurt your feelings. No lies. My friends and I joke that the one I know is incapable of lying.

* Often make small social faux pas but doesn't forget to routinely do the obvious things. Example: My ENTJ never fails to open the car door for me first before getting in himself. He will routinely cut across someone when they are speaking if he thinks what he has to say is more important.

* They find it extremely difficult to show affection in anyway that isn't physical. If you are wondering if an ENTJ likes you in that special fuzzy kind of way (makes me laugh thinking of an ENTJ being fuzzy) then you'll know if they stare at you to the point that you wonder if something is on your face. They will let you touch them in a lingering manner. (at least the males ones in my experience have) However, the ENTJ will openly scorn your opinions if he doesn't think they are sound...even if he's still considering courting you he won't save your feelings. I know. It's really frustrating and makes for a lot of hurt feelings. You'll know you are loved by one because they will suddenly bear hug you for no apparent reason.

*Doesn't want to hurt or antagonize people. Though they are direct and will scorn that which they think is dumb they don't honestly intend to be mean. You have to be confident in yourself and know what you are talking about. At some point they will want you to back up what you've said. As for the one I know, he is honestly surprised and dismayed if he discovers he's hurt someone's feelings. In turn you have to be strong enough to take the things he/she says in stride. Don't wear your emotions on your sleeve or you will get hurt.

*Be Direct! You can't sit around hoping the ENTJ will figure out how you feel. They will just keep marching ahead assuming you are fine. If you don't tell them that they have hurt your feelings they will never know. I still have to point out when I feel offended and we've known each other well for 5 years. It helps if you can give the ENTJ a reason why he/she hurt your feelings. Then they know how to attack the problem and they will honestly try to make up for their transgression.

As an INTP this last one can be difficult. Since the ENTJ wants details and reasons you have to stop and analyze your feelings before you can confront the ENTJ. Also, I've had a stiff learning curve on being direct. I'm not terribly direct about my emotions. It's ridiculously hard for me to decide if I really am hurt about something he's said. Then I have to decide if it's worth mentioning it. Finally, I have to get up the courage to actually say something. However, it pays off if you can make yourself go through this process. Give the ENTJ something to improve in themselves and convince them that it's necessary and they'll throw themselves into it wholeheartedly.

Meh. I'm too tired to explain things clearly.

 

[Words]

When facing discussions, I automatically switch to extroversion especially when the subject interests me. an ENTP and J would work. Too much introversion is the main conflict between the two.

 

[wadlez]

My best friend is an ENTJ, from experience and through MBTI theory they are our best match.

 

[Words]

The problem is the social connection. There is mutual understanding but not enough friendliness. Not enough "awkward-flavor".

 

[shoeless]

i've talked about my ex-boyfriend who was an ENTJ. frankly, the bossiness and in-your-face-ness really tends to piss me off.

maybe theoretically a well-developed ENTJ could match with a well-developed INTP. but who the hell is well-developed these days, you know?

 

[LAM]

The ENTJ's I know or had known are jerks. Or wayy too bossy. or just not patient or incredibely over-estimate their intelligence (and I have met and known so, so many ENTJs.)

I haven't yet met one that is anywhere remotely useful in work situations if I am trying to do anything. When I have to deal with them I just have to overpower them (not in the physical sense.)

They are also jerks 50%-80% of the time, I have known many bullies (not bullying me) that were ENTJs. Them being nice or very friendly to people they feel aren't as good as them (a lot) or are seen as equals (me mostly) is usually very rare.

If they feel that the person isn't as good as them then almost no respect is shown. If they feel that a person is as good or close to them, then mostly they just try to bring them down or avoid them. Except if they can't then they are usually very competitive most of the time (even if you known them for something like 2+ years. This happened to me thrice.)

Of course, ENTJ's differ on what is important to them. Some feel those socially below them aren't "as good as them" or it might be intelligence (they over-estimate this sometimes,) physical ability, a lot of stuff really. Their criteria could ecompass a large number of things; the examples above being some of the main ones.

So overall they mostly suck to be around or work with in High school and before. At least. And I am not saying all are like that, just every single one I known (8-15. I can't remember the exact number.)

I deal with them by either getting their respect (I am for some reason usually considered in that "equal category" and half the time I stay in it for a long time.) Or you just have to; put them in their place, show them who the boss is, etc. Be really assertive basically.

But there is one good aspect to them; they make great rivals. Rarely do they submit if they realise that they didn't completely and utterly lose in most aspects. I really can't float on half-assed crap when arguing or competing with them, unlike basically most other people. Beating one of them, especially in an argument, is like headbutting a bull into submission.

My J personas are very well developed because of my dealings with them. (I know these guys weren't INTJs. And I know I am generalising, but I am also giving you my advice if you ever meet one of the ENTJ's I know.)

 

[Cavallier]

I'm sensing a lot of ENTJ issues here. It seems common across the board. I can see where an ENTJ can be irritating, combative, and even infuriating. Yet, the one I know has never bullied me or even been unwilling to accept my input. He starts to get combative over certain issues with other people then quickly decides it's not worth his time. No, wait. I usually point out that it's not worth his time and he responds by letting it go. Hmmmm...I don't think he's any more balanced or healthy than the rest of us. Perhaps I should gather more data by observing a different ENTJ in my surroundings. My own theories might be skewed by the fact that I'm in a (what I think is healthy) romantic relationship with one right now.

I'll get back to you when I've developed my thoeries a little better.

*wanders off to re-read the ENTJ profile*

 

[LAM]

I'm sensing a lot of ENTJ issues here. It seems common across the board. I can see where an ENTJ can be irritating, combative, and even infuriating. Yet, the one I know has never bullied me or even been unwilling to accept my input. He starts to get combative over certain issues with other people then quickly decides it's not worth his time. No, wait. I usually point out that it's not worth his time and he responds by letting it go. Hmmmm...I don't think he's any more balanced or healthy than the rest of us. Perhaps I should gather more data by observing a different ENTJ in my surroundings. My own theories might be skewed by the fact that I'm in a (what I think is healthy) romantic relationship with one right now.

I'll get back to you when I've developed my thoeries a little better.

*wanders off to re-read the ENTJ profile*

I haven't met any female ENTJs. So my theory is that since men kind of depend on egos and especially in high school and indeed a lot of other life situations strong egos are rewarded. In my experience, they get worse the higher their position may be. All that combines to bolster their already naturally combative and very high ego to make something that is somewhat unhealthy. Also they don't have to be reigned in in high school, unlike in real life, where consequence can be something like losing your job.

All those factors, and more, seem to have made me always need to pull out my unbelievably stubborn and overly assertive J persona in my dealings with them.

 

[lafmeche]

i've talked about my ex-boyfriend who was an ENTJ. frankly, the bossiness and in-your-face-ness really tends to piss me off.

maybe theoretically a well-developed ENTJ could match with a well-developed INTP. but who the hell is well-developed these days, you know?

This is generally my feeling on the subject.

The main ENTJ I've dealt with is my father. He basically tried to rule with an iron fist: no explanations, no obvious logic. You can imagine how frustrating that was. I know it all made sense in his head, but he never thought it was necessary or even relevant to explain himself, discuss anything, or compromise. I'm sure that's largely a result of how he was brought up, but I also suspect that he just isn't very well-rounded personality-wise (he might be somewhat atypical for an ENTJ; I hadn't given it much thought).

Anyway, now that I'm an adult (and he's had some humbling experiences that we won't get into...), he treats me as much more of an equal and he's generally more tolerable. He still thinks he's in charge (he never was, but he never figured that out) and doesn't tend to ask for my opinion, but I know he does care what I think.

I guess my overall impression (based on all my ENTJ relationships, not just above) is that they tend to come across as confident, regardless of their underlying feelings. They're often not good at reading others (or just don't care). And, unless you've somehow proven yourself to them, they're unlikely to consider you an equal, and may not even listen to you.

Despite my understanding of MBTI and my experience from dealing with my father, I still find ENTJs very draining. There might be more moderate ones out there that I'd do better with, but I suspect they would still get to me over time.

 

[Enne]

I'm guessing it would depend on the level of extroversion in each case. I'd imagine though, that leading with Te must take a lot of energy. I've read somewhere that when interviewed, one ENTJ noted an urge to create "these little plans, and then I'd have to carry them out". I would like to learn more about what 'moulds' the ENTJ mindset, where anything can become a battlefield (or maybe just a chess game ). I would also assume that having to push forward with their visions and deal with opposition (read: other peoples' views and value systems), would make them view the world with just a *touch of paranoia (lol).

Regarding the comments on relationships, maybe they find the Ti confusing and elusive. With the visions of the mountaintop, I'd assume that any outward displays on the part of the INTP of not wanting to help with this plan would be seen with suspicion masked with insecurity. ("You don't want to be my evil queen? D'oooh! ). And, as in all cases, a heavy introvert mixed with even a heavy extrovert will most likely result in both parties being drained from the cat and mouse, and the constant quests for balance.

My guess would be than an INTP / ENTJ relationship would be best in highly predefined circumstances, such as if the two were working at the same company, or better in the same position, or even better, on the same project. It seems that the ENTJ guard would be best infiltrated if they were sure that Ti was interested in working with them. Who knows? Maybe they're too used to skimming over ponds to feel comfortable beside the quiet ocean.

 

[jhbowden]

I get along great with INTPs!

I recently had a confirmed INTP I met in real life attempt to type me, and he guessed INTP. (But I guessed *his* type correctly!) I suspect this ENTJ = bully stuff is just people living in a fog of preconception.

 

[Zero]

The one ENTJ I knew of for sure I got along with very well. There was a slight learning curve with his... outgoing behavior, but after that he was very fun to talk to.