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Do I look "Autistic"?

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
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First: What is Autism?

Commonly it is believed that autism is an impaired social function.

pljhdFA.jpeg


However, it has been shown that autism is correlated with high IQ and parents with high IQ.

rUIslk0.png


Notice how when people say "There is something different about that person but I don't know what" they are referring to the disconnect between what they do and what the autistic person is doing.

So what is it? The problem is in the ability to make quick decisions. That is to say, anything that ESFPs and ISFPs do is faster than what could be considered "Autism". Autistic people cannot deal with emotional nor sensory quickness.

If you have seen people like myself, you will know that we do not move like normal people.

N6pTX11.jpeg


The problem is now apparent.

It is not social impairment,

it is a lack of Extraversion.

Sensory Extraversion.
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
Black Rose
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Standard MBTI

F > T
S > N
P > J
E > I

ESFP
ISFP

ESFJ
ISFJ

ENFP
INFP

ENFJ
INFJ

ESTP
ISTP

ESTJ
ISTJ

ENTP
INTP

ENTJ
INTJ

Functions Based

Environment <Body - Emotion> Engagement

Se > Te > Si > Fi > Fe > Ne > Ti > Ni
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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Kind of? Autism isn't only measured in time. The relationship between asperger's and IQ is also not straightforward. Autism is a spectrum (as opposed to a gradient) and I don't think it's well understood even by experts.

You do appear to be autistic to me but there's likely also something else going on. You can't see images in your head and you don't possess an internal monologue IIRC? You also have a traumatic background?

I'm friends with a few people with autism and some of them are remarkably quick socially but their wheelhouse is narrow. They don't get some social norms but are insanely entertaining rhetorically and I value that highly. In terms of social processing, they would probably be in the top percentile, but they likely do so by trimming off layers of context. Good for being funny but not great for nuanced interpretation of feelings or mood.

My dad is likely on the spectrum and he would fit your description of slow social processing, but he's also just garbage at understanding some social concepts. He functions at a very low social level and this is highly isolating for him, far more than just being slow.
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
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A social spectrum or something that is / can be measured in real terms?

U8hbrnO.jpeg


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Abnormal development I am aware of was measured in babies.

The back and front brain do not "synch up".
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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I have no idea what I'm looking at there.

With this stuff, I think you lack an overall awareness of the field. You inform yourself with some rubbish tier evidence (like whatever that asperger zone graph is) and then jump straight to trying to interpret really sophisticated articles. Like you expect yourself to understand everything you read without the necessary background. Knowledge is built gradually and these articles on neuroscientific stuff are challenging even for people who have spent years of their life studying it such as myself. I'm not riffing on you, it's the expectation that you seem to hold for yourself that I'm pointing out.

You would benefit from engaging with intermediate sources, like textbooks, to contextualise your understanding (ensure they're recent as textbooks are not the cutting edge of science to begin with). Then read the conclusions of relevant metastudies to really begin to get a grasp.
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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Also re: a lack of extroversion

Extroverted autists definitely exist and they're super annoying. Some of them can't talk at a normal volume so they're yelling at you from right next to you. Some of them don't understand that their interests are not your interests and so they push all conversations towards their niche subject and don't let you leave. There is some behavioural overlap between autism and introversion but it's neither necessary nor sufficient. Autism isn't just personality trust me.
 

Black Rose

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Why are you on a forum where dumb people like me exist?

Should you not be at some university somewhere?

I got no information from this conversation I could use as a learning source.
 

Black Rose

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ok

Autism is a Spectrum

Qd3AM9i.jpeg


I do not like being dumb

but all the books at the library are 20 years old and the only book about the brain is in the kids section.

I need money for real books.

I will ask for it tomorrow.

yrhELRR.jpeg
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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I did not enjoy my time working in the neuroscience lab working on my thesis. While I value science very highly, the life of the researcher does not align with the lifestyle I would want for myself. I am currently at university studying to become a teacher instead.

Sometimes I wonder why I come back to this forum. I think you're fine AK but how some members here handle their beliefs drives me nuts. Usually I visit during a period of transition as I'm putting some projects down but am not yet immersed in something new.

To be clear I'm not calling you dumb. Nobody knows shit about neuroscience. I was serious when I said I was pointing out your expectation of yourself to pick this stuff up as if it's part of your day-to-day. It's not. My expectation for you to be able to contextualise this insanely jargonistic and dense information is the same for me understanding quantum mechanics without any background: zero. It's little to do with innate ability and everything to do with the time you've put in.

Why would anyone spend years studying if someone uneducated on the topic could pick it up by reading an article? Students bleed to get that understanding. It's hard-earned and takes time.
 

Puffy

"Wtf even was that"
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My understanding is that autism can sometimes be confused with behaviours that might develop in someone as a result of early trauma. I could imagine there being a gray zone in terms of overlaps with OCD as well.

Though if I recall Black Rose has been professionally diagnosed with autism and I'd hope that they'd have a better idea than me of how to diagnose it.

Personally I don't think there's anything wrong with having a surface understanding of a topic particularly for discussion forums like this, people talk about all kinds of topics all the time and couldn't be expected to take years out to become experts in them as a bar for discussion. As long as people are aware of the limits of their knowledge and don't claim to be experts or give the advice of experts then it's all good.
 

Black Rose

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I think that it all breaks down into a lack of awareness in several areas. If a person is overwhelmed they cannot pay attention to other things, if a person is developing in such a way that awareness is uneven then they can move fast in some areas but not in other areas. Because of uneven development in awareness, of course some areas of life will be advanced and others will suffer deficits. That is the whole point of the categorization.

@Puffy is right that trauma is a prevalent symptom confused with autism because it creates artificial unevenness of awareness. I only think that making autism about puppies, rainbows, and kisses is demeaning to what this condition is. It is saying people are not intelligent enough to understand what it is.

i6vJ60V.png

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Also, extraversion is not a personality trait as in the Big 5 social butterfly thing, Carl Jung had a different understanding of what it was. It is the ability to absorb the outside world. Se is exterior sensory, Te is empirical logic, Fe is calmness and Ne is associative

I think that whatever separates people from social engagement can be seen in Jungian MBTI terms. Si being introception, that autism lacks this sometimes. ISFJ and ESFJ hang out with people allot, I'd say they get how people are. My roommate and sister are both ISFP and they are the most social people I know. Party and socialize. So it might be that some combinations of Jungian functions would lead to differences in socialization.

It is not necessarily that a type any type is autistic but some types get people better. A type would see people differently compared to other types. That is because they approach people differently by the functions they have.
 

Black Rose

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My roommate murmured that I was like his autistic wife a few weeks ago.

I am male physically so it is strange, what characteristics was she seeing that reminded "him" of an autistic female? Since autism is a spectrum not all females are the same in autistic traits. My roommate is trans so they know more about male/female stuff than I do.
 

Old Things

I am unworthy of His grace
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I don't think you are autistic at all.

I think you have had a lot of trauma in your life which influences how you see the world and yourself. If you want my honest opinion, your perceptions seem to be very confused. You want to attain this high level of expertise but don't yet know the basics as @Hadoblado was saying. So it's like taking a kid who is about to have their first swimming lessons and taking them and asking them to do a 10-point dive. It's not going to work.

If you want my advice, I think you should work on you. Don't work on mastery of anything. You are the only you there is. Work on perfecting that, not necessarily unraveling all the mysteries of the human brain.

As I get older, I am learning to appreciate the small things in life. Little (or big) things that give me a higher quality of life. I live in the USA. That is a huge advantage over the vast majority of people who have ever lived. Further, you can only do what you can only do, meaning, don't try and do something you are not ready for. Your mental health is super important. The attitude you use to look at shitty circumstances is super important. These things affect your life WAY more than how much you know about the brain.

For example, my father has told me that I am one of the most content people he knows. Why? Because I don't ever feel like I am "owed" anything. Whatever I get is mostly what I deserve no matter how crappy it is. In other words, I take responsibility for my crappy circumstances. Because like I said, I live in the USA. Things could be a LOT worse. So what if some retard mocks me by posting a Hitler meme? It's not like he is punching me in the face through the PC. You have to learn to take things as they come. Don't let people rattle your cage. It's all about what you tell yourself. You can either flip out and say, "Woe is me" or you can do something to change your situation. Psychoanalyzing the literature on the brain is not going to improve your quality of life. It's just not. I am sorry to say that, but it's not.
 

fractalwalrus

What can we know?
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Black Rose said:
First: What is Autism?

Commonly it is believed that autism is an impaired social function.

pljhdFA.jpeg


However, it has been shown that autism is correlated with high IQ and parents with high IQ.

rUIslk0.png


Notice how when people say "There is something different about that person but I don't know what" they are referring to the disconnect between what they do and what the autistic person is doing.

So what is it? The problem is in the ability to make quick decisions. That is to say, anything that ESFPs and ISFPs do is faster than what could be considered "Autism". Autistic people cannot deal with emotional nor sensory quickness.

If you have seen people like myself, you will know that we do not move like normal people.

N6pTX11.jpeg


The problem is now apparent.

It is not social impairment,

it is a lack of Extraversion.

Sensory Extraversion.
Click to expand...
You postulate something interesting here, actually. There are individuals who tend to be more fearful than others, and it is likely due to processing differences in the associated brain regions. What if what MBTI refers to as extroverted sensing is indeed correlated to the strength of neural pathways that the hard sciences claim to be identifying? While there are usually more issues than sensory experience variance to account for in autistic people, I think you may pose a very astute observation and connection here. What are we actually referring to when we talk about "extroverted sensing" in the MBTI sense?
 
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