Distinguishing INTx from "Asperger Syndrome"

[radio4head]

Hi

I hope I can interest fellow INTPs in an informal research question.

Some F friends have suggested I might have Asperger Syndrome (AS)/autistic spectrum disorder, based partly on "executive dysfunction" and also maybe acting in an apparently insensitive but well-meaning way. However, given INTP and INTJ personalities are much more common than the incidence of AS, and there are some shared surface features between AS and INTx, it seems there may be a risk of false positive diagnosis for INTx types, as eloquently described at http://oddlydevelopedtypes.com/content/intps-and-aspergers-syndrome-0. My hypothesis is that AS makes it harder to read emotional cues, whereas most INTPs are perfectly good at reading emotion (through their extroverted Feeling) but that emotional understanding, being the INTP inferior function, is usually overridden by other considerations. That is, INTPs do empathise, but may not appear to do so to others, including confounding empathy tests.

There is a poll on an Asperger forum here http://www.wrongplanet.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=137942 showing most people with AS (mostly professionally diagnosed or self-diagnosed) show up as INTP or INTJ (INTJ makes most sense to me). However, I want to ask the question the other way around. Do INTPs have a tendency to score highly on AS measures, and do they tend to share specific features of AS, while lacking others?

There's a very good list of online AS-related tests at http://www.lifeonthespectrum.net/blog/?page_id=1188. In particular, there is the AQ, the EQ (empathy quotient) and this one: http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php which scores six different areas for both Aspie and "neurotypical" traits. In my case I get more "neurodiverse" than "neurotypical" for "talent" and "social", but less for "attachment" and "perception", and wonder if this pattern is repeated for other INTPs.

So if you can, please do post your results on the RDOS and EQ. Thanks.

 

[Hadoblado]

Are you vaccinated?

Spoiler

jk

There's a high conceptual correlation between INTP and high-functioning ASD. You could probably mismatch large snippets of the descriptions and nobody'd know the difference.

Personally, my mother thought I was on the spectrum from a young age, but she works in that industry and essentially sees the world through that lens. It's very obvious in adulthood that I am not on the spectrum, but I can see how she might have thought I was.

TBH, autism is thrown around like a buzzword these days, and a person with no expertise saying you might be autistic means a little, but not a lot. If you've made it this far without help, the diagnosis would only have token meaning anyway.

 

[Architect]

Aspie is a spectrum and comprises behaviors that are natural to the INTP/INTJ, and even other types (think of the ISTX hard core trekkie types). All that taking the tests will show is how poorly defined Aspberger is.

My recommendation, blow your F friends off on this as being naive. I get it from a strong F I know who is highly empathetic too. No, I don't have the empathy power she has, and she doesn't nearly have the reasoning power I have. Big deal.

 

[Minuend]

I wonder if other types (maybe intuitive mainly), wouldn't be more prone to be mistaken as INTx because of the Asperger traits. How do you separate the Asperger from the type, so to speak. I wonder if there would be distinct differences between an intuitive and sensor aspie. Or if you divide them by functions or something else.

My hypothesis is that AS makes it harder to read emotional cues, whereas most INTPs are perfectly good at reading emotion (through their extroverted Feeling) but that emotional understanding, being the INTP inferior function, is usually overridden by other considerations. That is, INTPs do empathise, but may not appear to do so to others, including confounding empathy tests.

Should be about right. I'm not sure if analogy is accurate, but I imagine people normally interpreting facial expressions the way one intuitively understands the mood of a song. While those with Asperger have to consciously listen for the tones, speed and maybe even reading the lyrics to know whether the song is supposed to be sad, cheerful etc.

I think if you put one non- psychological problemed INTx next an Asperger, the difference would be quite noticeable.

Those with Asperger usually get meltdowns or shutdowns with high stress, are stressed by sensory input, have difficulty with being spontaneous, say odd, inappropriate or misplaced things without meaning to, having difficulty with eye contact etc

An INTx wouldn't show the same type of issues.

There is a poll on an Asperger forum showing most people with AS (mostly professionally diagnosed or self-diagnosed) show up as INTP or INTJ (INTJ makes most sense to me).

Well, I'd imagine INTx might be among the personality types that are more likely to read about things like personality tests. People who have difficulty adjusting socially might also be more inclined to spend more time indoors browsing, which might skew results.

I don't really have any extensive knowledge on MBTI, though, so can't really offer any specifics to your questions.

 

[Brontosaurie]

to me it seems that INTP and ISTJ are the types most reminiscent of light autism spectrum disorder.

 

[Reluctantly]

I don't know.

I've wondered myself because forced eye contact has always made me nervous. But I have absolutely no problem reading facial expressions or seeing emotions in the eyes.

Someone once said I was a lot like his autistic younger brother and asked me if I was autistic. I didn't know how to respond. This guy was a little weird though because he wasn't very bright and failed out of the electrical training we were in, but he thought I was very high functioning. He's the only one that's ever thought that, but some people that like to force eye contact say I am "awkward" to be around. So I don't know, I'm probably on the spectrum, but not enough that it seems to matter all that much,, well,, it matters to me in understanding myself, but that's all.

 

[Minuend]

Well, things like anxiety, low self esteem, depression and more things I can't think of, could be contributing factors in how one experiences eye contact. They can also cause social clumsiness.

Reading facial expressions can be done in different ways than just "knowing" what it means. Like I mentioned about the music analogy. The more resourceful you are, the better you are able to interpret the lyrics, tones, sexual interplay between the various instruments as they stroke one anothers bare ass.

Facial expressions and their combinations can be memorized to some degree. It's also possible to simulate the other person's personality to determine how likely it is they are feeling certain feels in various situations. It requires some effort to maintain this system as there are many factors involved; facial expressions, body language, the situation you're in, things that might just have happened to them, their personality- which means their values, tendencies, feelings, thoughts.

And if you in addition consciously control your own body, standing up straight, attempting a laid back pose, timing eye contact, making facial expressions- attempting to make the appropriate/ expected ones and of course thinking of what to say... It can be draining.

Just as a small note as to the last paragraph; for those who feel obligated to react certain ways to social expectations, I'm not recommending trying to please social norms by showing "appropriate" reactions. I think it could be constructive to lower one's expectations to oneself and not try so hard to be normal. Perhaps trying to become a bit self-ironic and be able to make jokes about being a bit weird if anyone reacts to it.... Or something like that.

 

[crippli]

That is, INTPs do empathise, but may not appear to do so to others, including confounding empathy tests.

Indeed. I am sure I am a very empathic person. Only I don't waste it on those who are not in need.

 

[Polaris]

A few related threads for more info:

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=15991&highlight=aspergers
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=17370&highlight=aspergers
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=18114&highlight=aspergers
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=19993&highlight=aspergers
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=595&highlight=aspergers
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=21434&highlight=aspergers

 

[Pizzabeak]

Personally, my mother thought I was on the spectrum from a young age, but she works in that industry and essentially sees the world through that lens. It's very obvious in adulthood that I am not on the spectrum, but I can see how she might have thought I was.

More or less.

It's only similar in that they might employ a reclusive lifestyle. Can also be shy or awkward in social situations. However, autism is a delayed learning initiation phenomena and upon closer inspection the "INT" can be seen as relatively functioning. The "autistic" can work, have a job, but usually keep to his or her self... Whereas the INT must interact with people. Of course, that doesn't mean they might want to find a job with as little of that as possible.

It's pretty subtle but you can have ISFJ or any type with aspergers or autism and they might seem NT or what have you but if you know or hang out with them and gauge interests and hobbies, perhaps, the confusion can be elucidated. You can have an SF type where through lifestyle the stereotypical NT response originates but I think some aspect regarding motivation is central.

 

[radio4head]

I agree with a lot of what has been said. It's clear to me that seeing particular personal traits as AS is to pathologise them, while seeing the same characteristics in MBTI terms may give a way to understand and explain them non-judgementally and develop them or adjust to them in a constructive way.

I'm not necessarily accepting the validity of AS as a diagnostic category, but from my personal knowledge of six people with the diagnosis,

Those with Asperger usually get meltdowns or shutdowns with high stress, are stressed by sensory input, have difficulty with being spontaneous

may indeed be distinctive problems associated with an AS diagnosis and absent for most INTPs. I expect these correlate to the "Perception" and "Communication" dimensions in the RDOS questionnaire. People with an AS diagnosis may not necessarily show what we think of as rigid routines, but can have very specific triggers that contrast with INTPs' characterisation as usually laid back.

I may have confused the specific point I'm interested in now (see below) with too much personal context. But for a bit more: I have met a (surprisingly high) number of people with an AS diagnosis as child or adult, but IRL don't have access to a lot of people who know they are (well-functioning) INTPs. Which is why I'm basically asking for volunteers here.

All that taking the tests will show is how poorly defined Aspberger is.

That's pretty much exactly why I asked if people would be willing to do so. The Asperger Syndrome tests such as EQ were not devised AFAIK with a conscious correction for variation in personality. What are the specific traits of INTPs that might accidentally get subsumed under the umbrella of AS?

So I am asking people to please visit http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php and post or describe scores on the various dimensions.

 

[crippli]

In my case I get more "neurodiverse" than "neurotypical" for "talent" and "social", but less for "attachment" and "perception", and wonder if this pattern is repeated for other INTPs.

Attachment? Do you mean relationship? as is scored.

So I am asking people to please visit http://www.rdos.net/eng/Aspie-quiz.php and post or describe scores on the various dimensions.

I got more neurodiverse too. Perception about the same on both sides. Talent, relationship and social higher on neurodiverse. Communication equally low on both. The results where different last time I took the test.

I think that the AS box is larger then the INTX box. So an INTX should comfortably fit in the AS box, but not necessarily the other way around.

 

[Polaris]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 136 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 78 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

PS: My psychologist thinks I am neurotypical as I'm "too much in touch with my emotions". So...I'm naturally confused. She has not administered the test yet. She thinks that my seemingly superficial emotional disconnect is related to things in my past. I have learnt to interpret my emotions by comparing to other people and how they react in various contexts. I still don't know what I am feeling and how to react in certain situations though, and I have social anxiety which is something I'm working on, but find extremely frustrating and exhausting. I get the "meltdowns", but it may not necessarily mean Aspie - just an inability to handle too much emotional and sensory stimuli from not being 'trained' to do so properly by lack of exposure.

Maybe.

Spoiler

 

[Bock]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 112 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 99 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits

 

[onesteptwostep]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 85 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 113 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits

Spoiler

Social levels bombed as expected. I don't quite understand 'neruodiverse perception' though. What would that be?

Reading facial expressions can be done in different ways than just "knowing" what it means. Like I mentioned about the music analogy. The more resourceful you are, the better you are able to interpret the lyrics, tones, sexual interplay between the various instruments as they stroke one anothers bare ass.

What the what

...

I think my ability to listen to music has been scarred for life. It's a metaphor right? I really hope it is. I mean it better be XD

Spoiler

And if you in addition consciously control your own body, standing up straight, attempting a laid back pose, timing eye contact, making facial expressions- attempting to make the appropriate/ expected ones and of course thinking of what to say... It can be draining.

If it doesn't come naturally I feel like it's more of a psychopathic thing. I think it's better to be rude than to force yourself into what you're not interested in at all- or just avoid that setting. I persoally just try to imagine why this certain person talks or thinks this way.

That is, INTPs do empathise, but may not appear to do so to others, including confounding empathy tests.

Personally I do empathize, but its reaction comes only in private or in a close group of friends. In social situations I don't engage in an extroverted manner. I feel like I have to be in that extroverted state on for too long if I do so, especially if it's in an unaccustomed social setting. Sometimes I catch myself doing this without even having the emotional backdrop to do it. It's really unnerving sometimes. I pretty much conditioned myself to do certain acts. At least 40% of what I do is conditioned I feel.

 

[ma(dy)ma(dx)]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 120 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 95 of 200

 

[radio4head]

A belated thanks for all the responses. In short, I think the idea that INTP personalities do confuse the RDOS questionnaire is valid, and so take any positive results from similar questionnaires with a very large pinch of salt. From the answers, presumably other than Polaris, no-one seriously suspected they might have Asperger Syndrome.

Attachment? Do you mean relationship? as is scored.

Ah, I was referring to the RDOS version 3, where my results looked like:

RDOS v4 has removed or improved some questions and subsumes Contact and Attachment (and questions about asexuality) under Relationship. I don't know anything about the history of RDOS but suspect some of the questions come from individual Aspie experience and also that it has not been validated as a test. The examples at http://www.lifeonthespectrum.net/blog/?page_id=1188 include a lone neurotypical that makes it seem like the results could be quite clear-cut and "bimodal".

I think that the AS box is larger then the INTX box. So an INTX should comfortably fit in the AS box, but not necessarily the other way around.

Not quite sure I understand this. Probably all MBTI types overlap with AS to varying extents, but AS tests are not fully validated against diversity of personality.

Social levels bombed as expected. I don't quite understand 'neruodiverse perception' though. What would that be?

Well the PDF report enumerates the questions like "Do you have extra sensitive hearing?" and "Do you dislike it when people stamp their foot on the floor?" and questions about touch and light as well as the overload question. I scored low on this (as did you) and my impression is that this dimension is one that helps distinguish AS from INTP. I know someone with AS who relates to these characteristics and a lot of the neurodiverse communication questions too.

Another hypothesis might be that since introversion is associated with sensitivity to external stimuli, that AS is more like an extreme introversion than associated with N (Openness) or T (low Agreeableness) or P.

Personally I do empathize, but its reaction comes only in private or in a close group of friends. In social situations I don't engage in an extroverted manner. I feel like I have to be in that extroverted state on for too long if I do so, especially if it's in an unaccustomed social setting. Sometimes I catch myself doing this without even having the emotional backdrop to do it. It's really unnerving sometimes.

I can relate to that. I can also empathise with fictional characters or people in the news. Putting on a face and being inauthentic with new people is completely normal though, so knowing that means I don't worry. I suppose social interaction doesn't come very "naturally" to either introverts or Aspies.

Thanks again for the replies. It helps clarify things for me.

 

[Minuend]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 111 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 100 of 200

Spoiler

I have been diagnosed. There are some things they ask here that I have learned how to compensate for. For instance facial expressions. Thus I wouldn't answer "I'm bad at reading faces". I'm supposedly ENFP, btw. (Well, compared to average. I can distance interpret people fairly well, it's difficultier in a conversation where I have a lot of other things to concentrate on. Actually, maybe I should choose bad at reading facial expressions..)

I also don't have an exaggerated interest in anything, this might be because I have a lot of brain fog, working memory difficulties and generally become mentally tired quickly. I used to read a lot and research interesting topics, but eventually I got so frustrated with my concentration difficulties that I neglected it. I recently started going back to reading a little again, though, as I noticed a slight intellectual decline, lack of precision of thought and perception, after 1-2 years.

If it doesn't come naturally I feel like it's more of a psychopathic thing. I think it's better to be rude than to force yourself into what you're not interested in at all- or just avoid that setting. I persoally just try to imagine why this certain person talks or thinks this way.

There are many err "conditions" which would have emotional flatness or other traits leading to a less expressive face and body.

Sometimes interaction with certain people is inevitable e.g work, and usually having co-workers who either think you are ok or like you, will make interactions and co-operation with them easier in the long run. Therefore sometimes it can be advantageous to feign interest, smiles and a more cheerful personality. I can summon cheerfulness by going into a certain persona. In a way it's not entirely fake as I merely extend myself, my personality is amplified. And that amplification is a somewhat "normal", reserved Norwegian. Having this focus in social interactions helps me small talking and body languaging. Making social interactions more easily overcome.

Though, people will still pick up on me being a bit weird, but they generally don't use it against me when I'm being nice-ish. There are days and weeks where I feel more emotional flat than others. But of course, I can be in better mental states where I'm more "in touch" with my feelings and as a result will be more expressive.

It might be a bit difficult seeing the subtle difference between just being uninterested and being less emotionally available. I don't know how common the latter is in Aspergers. The stereotypical Asperger tend to be more emotional. How accurate that stereotype is, I don't know.

Since I'm not emotionally in tune what other people are feeling, I have to rely on consciously interpreting their faces. Occasionally I have this "shit, did that person get offended" in a normal conversation. And I just will have no idea. I get no feel or impression from them. It's different from anxiety (which I used to have when I was younger) where you worry about how people perceive you or making a fool out of yourself.

If you have met someone with Asperger, you might have noticed how they sometimes say weird, misplaced or rude things. I sometimes do that and pick up on it after. I see these as "jumps" in thought. Sometimes I make the wrong assumptions or I jump to slightly irrelevant thoughts. Though sometimes I just structurize my sentences poorly. It's a bit bizarre how this happens as you would think I'd be able to not do it after practicing social skills. (It does get worse after periods of isolation, though). I don't entirely get it myself. I think it happens more when I try to be polite.

Sometimes I'm also thinking about something while the other person talks, thinking of mentioning it or replying with it. But then the other person says something else and what I say in worst case will seem rude. But since I've been focusing on it so intently, I'm not always aware of it before it's said. Some of that "getting locked in thoughts which you "have" to express" can be seen in this post. There's a lot of irrelevant shit here. But maybe someone will have use for it, so meh.

Yikes, these paragraphs are a bit messy.

Well the PDF report enumerates the questions like "Do you have extra sensitive hearing?" and "Do you dislike it when people stamp their foot on the floor?" and questions about touch and light as well as the overload question. I scored low on this (as did you) and my impression is that this dimension is one that helps distinguish AS from INTP. I know someone with AS who relates to these characteristics and a lot of the neurodiverse communication questions too.

Sudden, loud noises in movies are unbearable to me. I stopped going to the movies long time ago because you never know what movies they put them in. I even skipped the last lecture of a class after the professor had a really loud sound in his presentation. I also stay indoor at new years eve. The light from the firework is uncomfortable.

Unpredictable movement is also tiring. Walking through crowds. I guess I might not have an automatic filter where I can navigate easily. I recently learned that people generally look in the direction they're going, so that has made it easier for me.

I also get drained from excitement. Being overly happy is uncomfortable for me as well.

Some of these things are found in people without Aspergers, ofc. But that's when you have to look at the overall picture and look more to the cause and how that would manifest. Both people with low self-esteem and Aspergers might be socially clumsy, but their reasons for being so are not the same, for example.

There are a few other things that for me makes it more obvious I have some form of autism, but I guess you were mainly looking for the comparison between INTPs and Asperger. Well, at least I can say that I probably have more in common with the stereotypical INTP than the stereotypical ENFP.

 

[redbaron]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 128 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 114 of 200

You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits

There's things that often give me pause and make me wonder sometimes what I am, but nothing really to solidify that I have aspergers.

 

[rainman312]

I've noticed this correlation myself aswell. I find that many INTx types have social skills, they just don't really like to use them. Speaking from experience as an INTP, I find that I can be really sociable, if I want to, it's just exhausting and I really don't get anything from doing so. Seeing as lacking social skills is a pretty primary symptom of autism, I think you can draw a definite line between the two there. I think despite the fact that many INTPs exhibit these symptoms (or in some cases, abilities) doesn't mean they all have autism. I actually took an autism test once, and while I scored pretty high on it, my score wasn't high enough for me to be considered autistic. This was a self-administered, unofficial test, keep in mind. You can find it here. I found these symptoms on WebMD (I know, my sources suck):

• Social interactions and relationships. Symptoms may include:
  • Significant problems developing nonverbal communication skills, such as eye-to-eye gazing, facial expressions, and body posture.
  • Failure to establish friendships with children the same age.
  • Lack of interest in sharing enjoyment, interests, or achievements with other people.
  • Lack of empathy. People with autism may have difficulty understanding another person's feelings, such as pain or sorrow.

They definitely seem to match a lot of traits that INTx types exhibit, and were it just these symptoms that determined autism, I would say almost all INTxs have it. However, if you continue reading, you find many that are very un-INTx-similar traits.

• Verbal and nonverbal communication. Symptoms may include:
  • Delay in, or lack of, learning to talk. As many as 40% of people with autism never speak.1
  • Problems taking steps to start a conversation. Also, people with autism have difficulties continuing a conversation after it has begun.
  • Stereotyped and repetitive use of language. People with autism often repeat over and over a phrase they have heard previously (echolalia).
  • Difficulty understanding their listener's perspective. For example, a person with autism may not understand that someone is using humor. They may interpret the communication word for word and fail to catch the implied meaning.

Of these, only the second one matches some INTx types. As I said, a lot of INTxs have the skills required for conversation, and many even enjoy conversation, given that it's about an interesting topic. While the rest of them almost certainly apply to some individual INTx types, none of them are archetypal INTx traits. Finally, I'd also like to point out that autism frequently accompanies other medical problems, such as seizures, anxiety, sleep problems, etc.

Edit: Forgot my RDOS results

 

[XUD9]

Here are my scores ;

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 145 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 64 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

I have thought for a long time that I'm probably an aspie, where can I go and find out for sure ?

 

[crippli]

The examples at http://www.lifeonthespectrum.net/blog/?page_id=1188 include a lone neurotypical that makes it seem like the results could be quite clear-cut and "bimodal".

That lone neurotypical graph was odd. Is that how most people are?

Not quite sure I understand this. Probably all MBTI types overlap with AS to varying extents, but AS tests are not fully validated against diversity of personality.

Not well formulated from me. I had in mind was how AS diagnose came into existence from Hans Asperger. It's original meaning. Basically schizophrenia without psychoses. The negative symptoms:

"Social withdrawal, difficulty in expressing emotions (in extreme cases called blunted affect), difficulty in taking care of themselves, inability to feel pleasure. "

The two first aspects seems to come again and again on INTX forums.

So I was thinking from what I read that actually most, at least with stronger personality preferences seems to fill the original AS criteria. But maybe not how it's diagnosed today. As you are looking into.

I get the impression that an INTP with well developed tertiary, and not overly dominant primary should be able to avoid an AS diagnose. Not so sure when it is the other way around.

 

[Vion]

Asperger Syndrome is the hatred of those with Asperger Syndrome and the depiction of such traits projected upon you. It is an entirely circular notion that by even mentioning we increase its proliferation. It is a product of mimicry.

I hate those with Asperger Syndrome like I hate those with Cancer, my loving hate goes out to you all. I partake in the sentiments of being totally fucked over by life as we are all in the same boat and going to die some day.

To hold Aspergers as true would be to state that truly good people can't acknowledge bad things. Why can't we acknowledge a system is being gamed without then too gaming the system?

 

[TBerg]

I am weirder than I thought right now:

 

[MrBean13]

Pretty much, the best way to know if you are a regular INTP or you've got the burgers is to have friends watch you in public and see how much your P-ness is showing in your interactions with other people. Perceptiveness is more common than aspergers, which is rare (like INFJ level of rare) and you should should be happy if u r special, just hope ur not special needs. Good luck,

-Mr Bean

 

[Jennywocky]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 70 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 150 of 200
You are very likely neurotypical

... i'm normal?

srsly, tho... score might have been a little more slanted toward neurotypical diverse when I was younger. Some of the shift just came from experience with social situations.

The test seemed clumsy to me. I think many of the traits are too generic and need context in order to determine functioning, not just their mere existence. And labels perpetuate and accentuate differences. I think it can be useful if you think you're randomly struggling to function in a particular setting and can't understand why -- it can be reassuring and helpful to realize it's not some kind of acute or dysfunction in otherwise mainstream functioning, it's just a matter of design and inherent difference. But after that...?

 

[TBerg]

Well, fuck, I guess I am made of Asperger's syndrome. I guess I did obsess over things as a child and couldn't do basic shit for the longest goddamned time. I even liked spinning toys and spinning myself in a tight circle. Tops and propellers and wheels were the best. I guess I am somewhat adapted to a modicum of adult life by my sublimated rituals. Housework is my religion now.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Aww, i'm so fucking bored out of this.

 

[TBerg]

I feel even lonelier now. I want so bad to connect to someone on a deeper level, but all I get is lack of reciprocation. People are not even capable of being fair, and they make the most superficial judgements for no reason at all other than to aggrandize their narcissism. And I am not even talking about their attitude towards me, but I guess it makes sense when it is directed towards me too.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

I have an official diagnosis of Asperger's Syndrome and I'm an INTP.

I can see how a lot of people would think that INTXs would be on the spectrum but not all of them are. I could see many of them being on there, but there is quite a bit more to Asperger's than MBTI traits.

Sensory issues are a major component that can give you some clues. For instance, not being able to put your face under the shower head because it is physically painful is common in nearly half of aspies. Some of us are hyper- or hypo-sensitive to temperatures. I know someone who can't feel temperature whereas some others are always putting on and taking off clothing to adjust to how they feel. Tactile sensitivities are also big. Some fabrics feel like they are made out of bullet ants and others are so great that we can't stop touching them. Perfume makes me gag. I always have to wear sunglasses outside unless it's overcast because bright light gives me headaches, and there is a myriad more.

Eye contact causes physical pain as does crying. You'd think the latter would be the other way around, but it's not for me.

When I was tested, I had an Empathy Quotient of one out of eighty (eighty being highly empathetic). My Autism Spectrum Quotient was forty-two out of fifty and most aspies score about thirty-five. This results in me not missing people or things. People think I'm inhuman because of it.

I don't get sarcasm very often and I can't deliver it well because my voice is so monotonous that everyone thinks I'm serious about what I'm saying. My friends can be counted on one hand and I do have meltdowns, but things are manageable. I can only interact in a group for about fifteen minutes before I have to excuse myself.

A really good place to start if you want to know more is Tony Attwood's The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome. You can pursue an official diagnosis if you want but it won't get you anything unless you're still in school. It just helps you to know yourself a little better kind of like MBTI.

 

[Grayman]

The graph threw up all over the place. I'm pretty disgusting.

http://www.rdos.net/eng/poly10a.php?p1=-50&p2=-0&p3=63&p4=63&p5=-2&p6=74&p7=-50&p8=73&p9=82&p10=82

 

[Grayman]

My actual results didn't copy over and now I don't care enough to do it again...

Interestingly Relationships looks like the cookie monster ate it all and didn't leave me any left overs. I made up for it with a little bi-social skills reaching in the realm of normal and abi-normal. Looks like Jenny's around the side and top.

 

[Doktorin Zylinder]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 176 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 36 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

Now, that is very interesting.

 

[Happy]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 131 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 80 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

One of my professors told me the other day that they thought I was 'on the spectrum'. It was amusing. IF I am, I'm at least fairly well adjusted.

 

[Polaris]

This results in me not missing people or things. People think I'm inhuman because of it.

Rings a bell...

I don't get sarcasm very often and I can't deliver it well because my voice is so monotonous that everyone thinks I'm serious about what I'm saying. My friends can be counted on one hand and I do have meltdowns, but things are manageable. I can only interact in a group for about fifteen minutes before I have to excuse myself.

I have the same issue. It's worse with people I semi-know, not so bad with new people as I kind of have learnt to not care how strangers perceive me. I know I am odd, I can handle it. It's worse with people I have interacted with previously, like family in-laws and such. They have expectations of me as the partner of their much beloved nephew/grandson/son, etc...these expectations are often what gets to me as I find it difficult to produce consistent "normal" behaviour every time I meet them. My partner is very understanding and patient with me and I know I should not worry about these things so much, but it's like my brain shuts down when I'm there in the situation, all the voices drown into one and blends in with the background noise, and all I can think of is to run away to the nearest bathroom...

Small talk is difficult for me to sustain over time, even after years of practice, but I have been burnt by attempting to get the conversation to a more interesting level where I have managed to push people away from me. I'm very topic-oriented, and naturally analytical/dissective in the way I approach topics which seems to confuse people. I can do small talk, but over time I get more and more drained and tend to drift off and lose concentration to the point where I'm replying in a very robotic manner while my brain is thinking about one hundred other things and taking in too much sensory information from the periphery.

I find noise levels have a tendency to completely throw me off balance, which is why I cannot function normally in a pub, loud restaurant or any other noisy atmosphere. Everything just blends into white noise, and I find that my limbs start tingling and eventually go numb while this weird sort of hazy bubble wraps itself around me. Then I am watching myself from the outside and everything seems absurd, which is why I sometimes come up with the most inappropriate and absurd replies to people when they talk to me. I'm also abnormally jumpy when there are loud noises or people touching me, even just gentle touch makes me jump a meter up in the air. My partner may just touch me gently on the arm at home and I jump like I've been burnt or something. Different smells can also have unexpected consequences where I feel physically ill, or certain textures in food can make me retch/vomit. I also have difficulty sometimes distinguishing between hot and cold, which is why I tend to burn myself quite often. This may be common though. I'm also aware that all the above could just be anxiety.

A really good place to start if you want to know more is Tony Attwood's The Complete Guide to Asperger's Syndrome. You can pursue an official diagnosis if you want but it won't get you anything unless you're still in school. It just helps you to know yourself a little better kind of like MBTI.

Thanks for the tip. I may not be on the spectrum, but I'm sort of obsessed with finding out at the moment as I need answers to many questions.

Spoiler

Things in my past may have fucked things up something seriously, yes, but I would feel much better about it if I knew there was an inherent reason there to begin with to exacerbate the problem. This may be difficult to understand for some, but I think most people can relate to wanting to find rational explanations for traumatic events. At the moment I have no explanations for why people have behaved towards me in a certain way; at least if I know part of the issue is caused by some intrinsic deviation from the "norm" and not just complete social retardation, it is easier to accept.

The graph threw up all over the place. I'm pretty disgusting.

Lol

 

[dark+matters]

I definitely do not see myself as anywhere near the autism spectrum, but I also am not so sure to what percentage I can relate to the INTP stereotype either. I also relate to INFP pretty strongly and test as a wide variety of other Meyers-Briggs types. I'm pretty cynical about psychological labels in general. People just start acting out others' expectations for them, like characters in a play or like children trying to please mom and dad.

It does seem that an awful lot of people who radiate the NT psyche report (or clearly have) some kind of mental health disorder, but there could be any number of reasons for this, chief among them being how popular psychology and self-help has become. There really isn't anyone who couldn't be diagnosed with a mental illness. I wish more people would realize this. I get really annoyed or sometimes even offended when I bump into people who fear or look down on people who think they have this or that disorder. Immediately, I start running through lists and scales on which to diagnose them, and it never seems to take more than a few seconds to do a pretty good job of it.

Intuitives also seem more interested in mental health disorders than sensors. Also, people socializing on the internet in general might have more mental health challenges.

I think that once someone starts getting interested in psychology, there's no end to the neuroses they could be diagnosed with. But I know little about the struggles of those on the autistic spectrum. I only know of second-hand models of looking at the world through that filter from counseling books, and one or two honest souls who would talk to me about their perception of dealing with autism or asberger's syndrome.

But generally speaking, I think a lot of psychology today is brought upon by guilt and fear. When I was going though counseling trade school, I saw mental illness everywhere. Everywhere! Now I'll watch people who definitely do seem to be engaging in behaviors that could be labeled "mentally ill" and people who think others do have mental illnesses and that they don't and I just shake my head. Math is the only real thing.

I really liked this Vsauce video suggesting some of the ramifications of our use of psychological terms:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd7dQh8u4Hc

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 125 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 82 of 200
You are very likely neurodiverse (Aspie)

didn't expect this tbh

 

[Rualani]

I call this talented neurobalance.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 106 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 93 of 200
You seem to have both neurodiverse and neurotypical traits

BTW, it doesn't say the BPM of this song, wtf?

​

 

[Brander]

I was put on the autistic spectrum as a kid (not Asperger's though)

 

[Rudolph Mondal]

Hmm...my psychologist thinks I might have high functioning autism so I guess this makes sense. Hmm..

 

[ZenRaiden]

http://www.cmu.edu/news/stories/archives/2012/march/march6_brainautism.html

Some information about the nature of autism.

 

[Sinny91]

 

[StevenM]

My parents were very convinced I was autistic. Not so much because of any signs of intelligence, it was just that they thought I was really 'fucking weird'.

 

[crippli]

My parents were very convinced I was autistic. Not so much because of any signs of intelligence, it was just that they thought I was really 'fucking weird'.

The psychologists was off the same opinion about me. Checked me ongoing without making up their mind for 4 years if I was schizophrenic or not, they told me that was what they had worked after. At some point they almost begged to approve a trip to the mental ward. In the end they labeled me ASD + ADD. My parents however think I'm the sweetest ting that have walked this planet.

 

[Inquisitor]

Parents also thought I might have Asperger's at one point. Even made me see a shrink about it. Luckily she said it was "not likely." Of course, I like to view health/disease along a spectrum so binary yes/no diagnoses don't really resonate too well. For example, imo cancer = extension of poor health likely due to bad lifestyle choices with some genetic propensity mixed in as well. Chinese medicine interestingly says cancer is due to damage to the jing, which is a concept analogous to "developmental potential." Western medicine would probably view that as being closely tied to genes.

Jeffrey Yuen Interview

Starting around 0:18, he talks about the 3 major causes of cancer from a Chinese medicine point of view. Fairly all-encompassing in my opinion and fits my world view of health and disease better than western bioscience.

Anyway, kind of off-topic. Don't want to derail the thread just thought it was a good illustration of how I personally view all disorders of the mind and body.