Difficulty verbally explaining thoughts and certain scenarios/movies/books ect.

[seijitakk]

For as long as I can remember, I have always had an extreme difficulty with explaining very simple things such as a movie I watched (even a movie I have watched numerous times). Or explaining something funny that happened, pretty much explaining ANYTHING. I'll start my sentence, and in the back of my head I'll panic cause I know what I'm in for, I then proceed to integrating really random shit into my explanation. Shit that isn't important at all to the story. I always tend to miss the really obvious details that I must say in order for my explanation to make sense. I'll stumble over my words, fuck up my grammar, and it makes me feel like a fucking infantile. My thoughts in my brain just seem to be really abstract, and scatterbrained. It may just be that I interpret information in a different way, a way not applicable to verbally explaining. Can anyone of you INTP's relate to this at all? and does anyone know a book or a website that I can use to improve this some what of a speech impediment I seem to have? Something that really targets on understanding how to clearly state things verbally whether it be ideas, or scenarios, movies ect.
I've done a lot of researching, but the only thing I can find are websites that explain how to become an amazing public speaker, or stuff that helps teachers understand how to teach things more cleary to their students, which is not what I'm trying to improve at all. If you guys have any input I'd really appreaciate it, Thanks

 

[EyeSeeCold]

As for improvement, I say surround your self with cunning linguists, that'll help your oral problem.

I've experienced this myself but not to such a degree.

 

[Glordag]

Yes, I have trouble with this. It seems that I have more success in communicating stories or ideas in person when I block out my Ti process and utilize other functions. Basically, if I become passionate about what I'm speaking about, or if I become creative in my methods of explaining something, then I will do much better at communicating the idea to others.

Just for kicks, try sprucing up an idea when you need to communicate it to someone one time. Concentrate on using colorful adjectives and conveying the emotion or feelings behind what you need to get across. I think that, sometimes, we INTPs can forget that we're living, breathing human beings. Others appreciate our ideas much more when we take a minute to live.

 

[The Gopher]

Yes I have a hard time with this. Most of the time I just start to say something and at the first sign that I won't be able to I just say I forgot. On the other hand I am much better at arguing with people verbally than through email or such as I am to un-motavated to put my entire argument on to "paper".

The flip side to that is that I can check all my random facts that I am not sure about in emails unlike conversation but that's getting of topic.

 

[terraxceles]

This happens to me too. I can never find the right words.

Also, sometimes, whilst in the middle of explaining I start brainstorming for the appropriate words, and then I'd forget completely what I was supposed to say next. Talk about embarrassing.

 

[FabricatedSerenity]

I have always done well in speaking publicly except for my quiet voice, which I learned to project. Now the only time I have difficulty verbalizing thoughts is when I've been alone for a long period of time and a. need to remember how to use my vocal cords, etc and b. need to remember how to talk to people which seems an art in itself.

I've found having conversations internally and hanging out with NTJ's tends to improve my ability drastically as well as any detachment from emotions to circumvent stuttering or insecurity.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I've found having conversations internally and hanging out with NTJ's tends to improve my ability drastically as well as any detachment from emotions to circumvent stuttering or insecurity.

Maybe the problem stems from communicating with sensors. I've never had trouble with my vocabulary around intuiters.

 

[FabricatedSerenity]

I noticed with a sensor friend of mine that right when I started speaking more conceptually it went right over his/her head. But, I have found that action is her/his form of expression and that his/her Fi is highly advanced, providing nice conversation.

 

[Trebuchet]

I used to have a lot of trouble with this, until I started limiting myself to two sentences when describing something. (And no fair using a lot of semicolons or subordinate clauses.) It forced me to think of the small number of things I found significant, or the one thing the listener might find significant. Now, while I'm not exactly a model of eloquence, I can often convince people to try a book or movie that I liked.

I think the real key is to practice a lot, rehearse mentally like FabricatedSerenity suggested, and above all keep it short. Speaking in short choppy sentences feels horribly limiting at first, and even unnatural. However, it both requires careful thought and allows more time for careful thought, plus being pithy leads to greater confidence in speaking. At least you know you won't bore your audience if you keep it short.

I got better at this over the course of a few years. It isn't a quick fix.

 

[SQ_Minion]

I've always had this problem as well. When at a piano an organ lesson my teacher would often ask me to explain what the "character" of the piece was, or what "emotions" it conveyed. I knew exactly what the answer was to me, but I couldn't explain it. Same situation in summarizing stories read for Spanish class. The teacher would think I didn't understand the story simply because I couldn't summarize it for him. Very few of the literary analysis essays I've written reflected my true thoughts on the literature--it's easier to just BS something that sounds good than to figure out how to put my thoughts on paper. That's the problem, I guess, with having such an extensive and complex thought pattern. I spend more or less my whole waking existence wrapped up in my world of thoughts. How am I supposed to convey that world to another person?

That reminds me of a supposed piece of wisdom that's always pissed me off: that if you can't explain a concept in a way that any idiot could understand, then you don't actually understand the concept. I don't feel that many things can be explained to idiots without horrifyingly simplifying them beyond accuracy.

 

[LPolaright]

Funny thing, I have a lot of trouble explaining things when it comes to person-to-person because usually I use a lot of abstract ideas and maybe get carried away with the enthusiasm and actually develop my thinking at the same time - that also causes confusion (of the fact that they asked me to explain something, which almost never happens because of that exactly).

But when I get to the situation of person-to-crowd, it all changes in a weird manner. I seem to accompany abstract ideas with concrete factual pathway to understand it... my metaphors seems to be more organized and my abstract explanation is almost like hypnosis (well, not to exaggerate... It is similar to hypnosis because people can actually imagine what I say and connect it in their minds).

For example I studied computer science with my girlfriend in high school... we had a really really bad teacher that didn't know C# (while I had that knowledge before...) and that was the subject for the finals test.

My girlfriend asked me to help her because she was having trouble with the subject, and so I tried to pass away my understanding but instead I ended up explaining it to myself and she got really confused... My knowledge became deeper but her knowledge was not budging any further and eventually she did pass the exam (after I wrote with her factual concrete data in her notebook about how C# operates) but then the next year she got out of the computers course because we went to an even deeper and more complicated ideas.

Because my teacher wasn't that good and we got to the next year which was more complicated, not only my girlfriend had trouble - but also, my whole class... They were desperate and they saw how good I am doing (I got only A++'s and I usually corrected my teacher during class) so they asked me to give lessons of my own before the finals. And so I did, I taught them the understanding from scratch, subject by subject. After each one of these classes they thanked me greatly, not only saying it was understandable but also fun.

Later on, everyone passed with passing grades and some even surpassed me in the finals of that year.

Also, just to mention something. I had another friend which is also an INTP - he got my ideas right away, even though he did not understand all of them he went with my "stream" and proposed new thinking ideas... But he did not have too much motivation to seek for "truths" in other subjects aswell (with the exception of math and physics, which was also fun for us to discuss) and we didn't have a great relationship.

Kind of weird actually. But the more I think about it - the more logical it is.

 

[Silas]

Alas I have often experienced this, the linguist inside me is definitely somnambulating some of the time, blundering into words rather than navigating them. In fact I've recently come to conceive of the idea that I'm so horrible at maths because I can't affix visuals to it properly.

For instance, usually there's plenty of abstract swirls and colours accompanied by spatial gyrations all forming into representations of whatever the subject of thought is, but in maths this just stalls.
And when it stalls, thoughts may cease. What I'm trying to get at is my verbal reasoning sucks, it's like I have to watch something happen inside to see how it works. This certainly doesn't occur in my INTP friend, so I'm assertive that I've never developed it properly (yay another area for personal growth to occur!).

E.g. when dividing or multiplying, the number line appears and i whir through like it's a film reel watching the numbers in question jitter and jump along it as they get to their proper place and transform.
Adding in particular has a sort of, snipping the numbers up and 'fitting' them in. With something simpleeee like 16 + 23, the 10 jumps onto the 20, becomes 33 while the 6 'slots' into place as it is sort of laid upon the rest of the number line, ending at 39.

If I don't see this happen, it becomes harder to think about it, though with things as simple as that example I can switch to a more verbal form and designate the correct answer.
I can understand maths, but it just takes much longer because I don't seem to trust the logic until I watch it happen.

 

[chuhulil]

Yes, I have found this in myself as well.

It's difficult for me to explain things verbally. The most recent thing I can think of is this morning when I was discussing test grades with a friend of mine. I kept stumbling when I tried to explain what I got wrong. And it was so difficult for me to just connect everything I was thinking to my mouth.

It's easier for me to explain things around friends who I"m close with. But, they all tell me I'm horrible when trying to explain something verbally. They say it's just not my skill, and I completely agree with them.

 

[starsnghts]

Comes from the introverted side I bet. Obviously the more you explain things the better you will get.

Ok, describe what you ate for breakfast today?

 

[SQ_Minion]

Comes from the introverted side I bet. Obviously the more you explain things the better you will get.

Ok, describe what you ate for breakfast today?

I had an Egg McMuffin replica with fake orange juice. Some of the cheese was burnt and inedible. The orange juice was more acidic than could possible be healthy.

But describing things in text is far easier than describing them verbally.

 

[seijitakk]

Yes, I have trouble with this. It seems that I have more success in communicating stories or ideas in person when I block out my Ti process and utilize other functions. Basically, if I become passionate about what I'm speaking about, or if I become creative in my methods of explaining something, then I will do much better at communicating the idea to others.

Just for kicks, try sprucing up an idea when you need to communicate it to someone one time. Concentrate on using colorful adjectives and conveying the emotion or feelings behind what you need to get across. I think that, sometimes, we INTPs can forget that we're living, breathing human beings. Others appreciate our ideas much more when we take a minute to live.

Yes! I know exactly what you mean when you said "we INTPS Can forget hat we're living breathing human beings". When I'm really passionate with what I'm trying to describe, I've noticed that it is a lot more easy talk, I get this flow of words that come out so naturally, I don't even really have to think about what I'm trying to say. I think a lot of what makes it so difficult for me is all the thinking that goes on before and during me speaking (like you said about the Ti). Once when I get in the habit of thinking about how to word things properly, and how I need to focus on the right "technique" to sound pleasantly coherent or what ever, I get caught in this cycle of anxiety and paranoia, a mentality of "I have to make everything sound perfect and flawless". It may not be as dramatic as I make it sound, but for the most part, that's pretty much what goes on inside my head.

 

[seijitakk]

I used to have a lot of trouble with this, until I started limiting myself to two sentences when describing something. (And no fair using a lot of semicolons or subordinate clauses.) It forced me to think of the small number of things I found significant, or the one thing the listener might find significant. Now, while I'm not exactly a model of eloquence, I can often convince people to try a book or movie that I liked.

I think the real key is to practice a lot, rehearse mentally like FabricatedSerenity suggested, and above all keep it short. Speaking in short choppy sentences feels horribly limiting at first, and even unnatural. However, it both requires careful thought and allows more time for careful thought, plus being pithy leads to greater confidence in speaking. At least you know you won't bore your audience if you keep it short.

I got better at this over the course of a few years. It isn't a quick fix.

Thank you Trebuchet for the advice! I really like the idea of just trying to limit yourself with two sentences when describing something. I find that when I describe something, I just trail off into unnecessary adjectives, and words, meanwhile trying to understand what I'm saying, and trying to figure out what I actually need to say. GOD just writing that out made me realize how much more complicated I'm making it, then it actually needs to be. There so many layers in the process of me trying to explain something it's just ridiculous. I like the whole idea about rehearsing mentally, I think I'm going to try it out in a more structured manner (like limiting myself to a certain amount of sentences or words).

 

[dark]

Not really suire if this will work, but do as ENTPs do, let the Ne take control, since according to MBTI INTPs also have Ne in auxilary, and to learn to use this will be very benificial in more ways than just communication. I don't use my Ne for communication half the time. But when I start talking it always takes over, I sometimes feel myself going to my auxilary Ti then I have to force myself out of my head and the Ne continues. I am not really sure what to do to exercise this, but some INTPs that have developed theirs may know.