differences between intp and intj

[Base groove]

This is off topic but I was wondering what the congruent analogy would be for INFP and INFJ? This is not just for BG but anyone that wants a stab at it.

INFP - close friend
INFJ - even closer enemy

Anything along those lines. Distant friend, friendly enemy. Wahteva

 

[Cherry Cola]

Schopenhauer is an INFJ I insist, the Ni runs through Spinoza to Schopenhauer to Nietzsche!

 

[nanook]

i'm not too familiar with him, i have been compared to him several times though, that's why he came up. maybe the Ni runs through me too. maybe the Te and Fi runs through him though. i was thinking about the judgement, for those analogies.

am wondering, what type is lacy green?

 

[EyeSeeCold]

This is off topic but I was wondering what the congruent analogy would be for INFP and INFJ? This is not just for BG but anyone that wants a stab at it.

I thought I could elaborate on Base groove's analogy.

With Dominant Fi a person exists within the sea of emotion and humanity(/human interaction). They can feel on a viscerally emotional level how things affect them or other people, or how strongly they feel about something, it's a feature they can't turn off and they notice it all the time. This doesn't mean Fi dom is automatically moral/sociable, just that they're aware of it. They might obligate themselves to certain protocols to avoid negative feelings from the inside or backlash from the outside, but the focus isn't on positive emotionality 24/7, it's on themselves. So the end character is someone who is more or less "nice", but in close interactions they are really their own person and are trying to deal with themselves in the world. Like Basegroove said, a "distant friend".

On the other hand, NiFe has the Feeling function second, so what you get first is the detached Ni perspective which makes for more inclusive and nonjudgmental interaction. They are just trying to amass all information/experience by casual means. Then with aux Fe in the mix you have a more involved and dynamic/lively application of Feeling which isn't so strongly attached to any judgments it does produces through NiFe, it just seeks to fulfill Ni/Se goals/impulses. The end character being someone who is not necessarily your friend or "enemy" but you may find yourself in situations ranging from expressive camaraderie to passionate antagonism depending on the circumstances. Again in Base groove's words, "friendly enemy".


In my experience/understanding of course, not sure if it's completely accurate.

From what I know, and how I see it:

INTP's usually can be seen with extroverted intuition, and in an inferior way, feeling. So you'll see the characteristics of Ne and Fe. Internally, and sometimes hard to see, they are usually using strong thinking and some Si.

INTJ's will usually be seen using extroverted T and S. You'll see some characteristics of extroverted thinking and inferior extroverted sensing. Internally, and in some ways unseen to others, they have characteristics of strong intuition and some introverted feeling.

Yes, I think that is a very accurate viewpoint. That the introverted/extraverted functions emerge/appear together.

 

[Base groove]

hey that works perfectly!

Only... I really meant ENEMY...

or did i?
~


i did not.

 

[nanook]

your description of Fi fits me well, i'm just not sure if this Fi implies dominance, it seems to me that i am living in four functions and all affect each other, the whole "sea of being human" is full of meaning and value and perception and logic. I've made myself feel every death... see every innocent face I've murdered to save humanity

your description of NiFe matches the many NiFe individuals in my life. If i observe them, they seem like machines to me. they may speak of love a lot, but they just seem to be mercilessly on their course of action. sometimes they seem like gods to me. totally impersonal. but demanding the duty of love. this experience that i am having of them could reflect their fire nature of Ni and Se, similar to how you say it, but also the complete absence of Fi in their consciousness.

they tell me that i'm a cold logical thinker with suppressed feeling, because i have no whimsy romanticism to express and i don't congratulate people's birthday (i think their perception of me is a lot like my perception of cognizant), but all i feel is that they mean business, mercilessly, and if you don't deliver signs of love in time, you have broken the contract and are fired. i expect feeling to be unconditional, in the sense of being steady, for instance i may hate some parts of you and like others, but if i like enough, i must like the totality of you even in the presense of the parts that i hate. for instance, if you were to hide your emotions out of anxiety, but i know you are sensitive, i would still perceive you as a warm feeling person, not call you out for being cold. it's alot like that quote "His subtle facial twitches wouldn't have been noticed by the layman, but to me, he might as well have been sobbing. " but they just deal with what is displayed, they don't seem to keep track of the rest.

 

[BigApplePi]

I have looked this up and watched videos and i dont see much difference, so if someone could tell me the biggest difference that would be great .

There is an enormous difference between INTPs and INTJs. INTPs do nothing but sit around and ruminate. INTJs insist on making rash decisions. INTPs should be ashamed for not being able to make decisions. INTJs should be ashamed for not listening to INTPs.

 

[peoplesuck]

Ok thanks i think i got the idea now. was on the fence a little because i have some intj traits, but im an nt so i guess thats normal.

 

[The Gopher]

Fi is a judging function however with a really well developed Ne... what BAP says seems correct.

 

[StevenM]

There is an enormous difference between INTPs and INTJs. INTP do nothing but sit around and ruminate. INTJs insist on making rash decisions. INTPs should be ashamed for not being able to make decisions. INTJs should be ashamed for not listening to INTPs.

I like it.

 

[John_Mann]

f​

Schopenhauer is an INFJ I insist, the Ni runs through Spinoza to Schopenhauer to Nietzsche!

Schopenhauer was an INTP. Nietzsche was an INTJ.

 

[OmoInisa]

Schopenhauer was an INTP. Nietzsche was an INTJ.

He was unlikely to have been an INTP. Philosophers are among the most accessible public figures as far as typing is concerned, because their deeper perceptions are laid out comprehensively and earnestly in writing. And obviously their judgements are as well.

Ni seems to come across pretty clearly in his aphoristic musings. Also his Fe-like resentments and neuroses are quite obvious too. So INFJ and INTJ seem to me the most likely candidates. And of those, I'm with Cherry in going with INFJ.

Agree that Nietzsche was likely INTJ.

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk

 

[Brontosaurie]

nietzsche was an INxP. any INTJ would have found him too far-fetched, too detached from reality, principled at the expense of achievement/contribution, megalomaniacal and highly pathetic. they may have respected or even appreciated his literary output as consumers but they would never consider his path a worthwhile endeavour or his insights enviable.

a set of Ji core values informing auxiliary Ne, nourished by a nostalgic Si tinge, propelled further by a temperament and lack of measure that indicates inferior Te. INFP is my best bet.

 

[Cherry Cola]

f​

Schopenhauer was an INTP. Nietzsche was an INTJ.

Schopenhauer INTP? Sorry but I'm not even going to argue against that. INTJ is possible but I think INFJ is more likely. Seriously you need only read his wiki to realize that the dude was anything but an INTP.

I know that Nietzsche was an INTJ, I didn't say otherwise.

 

[nanook]

speaking of analogies. i've come to the conclusion that Fi is water and Te is steel or iron, which together forms some sort of ice. but i can't visualize Fe and Ti accordingly.

 

[BigApplePi]

speaking of analogies. i've come to the conclusion that Fi is water and Te is steel or iron, which together forms some sort of ice. but i can't visualize Fe and Ti accordingly.

How about Fe is a beehive and Ti is what goes on inside the beehive?

Fi is the river and Te is the river basin ... or Fi is the water flow and Te is the pipe or hose through which it flows?

 

[nanook]

I'm sceptical about symbolizing the complexity of a function through a mechanism, it seems too reductionistic. A larger degree of abstraction seems required, for the symbol to include all possibilities. Elements or substances are abstract enough.

Fi could be a calm sea and then become a maelstrom, it could also freeze, etc.
But it's always water.

I've been thinking back and forth, is intuition air or fire, is sensation earth or fire. I'm thinking intuition must probably be fire, fire has density and speed, which reminds me of your beehive, btw, thinking must be air. Admittedly steel is not exactly made from air. And frankly i don't really feel how air is accurate, except in so far, as it is removed from earth. Wind perhaps. Thinking might be wind, that makes a lot more sense. Wind can even contain some water. Te could be cold mountain air at rapid speed, it has the feel of steel. It works with speed, pressure, minimalism. And Ti could perhaps be ... i lack the terminology ... the vertical forces of climate, which works with increasing density, temperature and gravity. Or could it be hot humid desert air, taking heat from Fe.


Beehive also feels like instiction to me. That's a term from another typology, an internet test we have had around. I'm not completely conscious of what that word means to me.


Extroversion arises and passes with a situation. If feeling is water, extroverted feeling should perhaps be a Gaisir (hot water fountain) or cold rain, introverted feeling is undercurrent.

Extroverted sensation is hot wandering dunes and sandstone caves, Introverted sensation is a swamp and the moss on tree bark.

I should expand my imagery. If earth can become tree bark and plants, air, water and fire can also become different things. But my understanding of chemistry is too weak.

Bringing Off topic to a whole new level.

Let's say, INTP is a bucket full of liquid hot air.
bucket=Si, hotness=Fe, Gas=instinctive dense thinking, occasional explosions=intuition. And i have heard you people take proud in not getting anywhere.

INTJ is a rocket & hydrogen bomb. propelled by fire=intuition, convicted by water=feeling, wrapped in steel=thinking. or say, it's cutting through cold air=thinking.

 

[Cherry Cola]

nietzsche was an INxP. any INTJ would have found him too far-fetched, too detached from reality, principled at the expense of achievement/contribution, megalomaniacal and highly pathetic. they may have respected or even appreciated his literary output as consumers but they would never consider his path a worthwhile endeavour or his insights enviable.

a set of Ji core values informing auxiliary Ne, nourished by a nostalgic Si tinge, propelled further by a temperament and lack of measure that indicates inferior Te. INFP is my best bet.

Nietzche was highly inconsistent about who he was a person, he was also very sensitive about his own person, and at the same time obsessed over his own person (Tert Fi), he desired always to embody to concretely be (Inf Se). His intuitions are consistent the philosophic conclusion which follow them are propogated forcefully, his is a philosophy that urges concrete action, indeed praises it (dom Ni, aux Te, inf Se).

INxPs are internally consistent. Nietzsche was all but internally consistent. He was a guru, a prophet, a preacher; an example. Not a guider, not a corrector, not an adjustor, but an overturner. He's clearly intuitive, and he's clearly an extroverted judger. His lack of control over his emotions and general character betrays Te/Fi not Fe/Ti.

Some quotes and events of and about him (wiki):

"In 1883 he tried and failed to obtain a lecturing post at the University of Leipzig. It was made clear to him that, in view of the attitude towards Christianity and the concept of God expressed in Zarathustra, he had become effectively unemployable by any German university. The subsequent "feelings of revenge and resentment" embittered him: "And hence my rage since I have grasped in the broadest possible sense what wretched means (the depreciation of my good name, my character, and my aims) suffice to take from me the trust of, and therewith the possibility of obtaining, pupils."[79]"

^Unfettered passion, a desire and forceful attempt to push his vision.

"His health seemed to improve, and he spent the summer in high spirits. In the fall of 1888, his writings and letters began to reveal a higher estimation of his own status and "fate". He overestimated the increasing response to his writings, especially to the recent polemic, "The Case of Wagner". On his 44th birthday, after completing Twilight of the Idols and The Antichrist, he decided to write the autobiography Ecce Homo. In the preface to this work — which suggests Nietzsche was well aware of the interpretive difficulties his work would generate — he declares, "Hear me! For I am such and such a person. Above all, do not mistake me for someone else""

^Does not need to disprove others, is convinced by the force of his visions which are interconnected with his person.

Later on he goes crazy and calls himself Dionysys:

"In the following few days, Nietzsche sent short writings—known as the Wahnbriefe ("Madness Letters")—to a number of friends including Cosima Wagner and Jacob Burckhardt. Most of them were signed "Dionysos".

^This is shortly after the horse incident wherein he could not contain neither his Fi nor his Se, this is not an INFP going crazy but an INTJ. Consider also how his philosophy shifted between positivism and fatalism. Force, -and following it- inevitable justice permeating the world (in a concrete Se manner) at times, nescience and moral rot at others. The body of his philosophy's morphology and direction remains consequent, but it's end point shifts between being dead and vital. Indeed, it is the emotional charge that is the fluxative element.

Consider also the weakness and obsessive nature of eternal recurrence as an idea. This is not dominant Fi, this is tertiary Fi requiring confirmation and grounding.

Finally another quote, this one is pretty self explanatory. He is simply unable to be rational when it comes to the matter that is supposed to be the primary strength of INxPs:

He wrote in 1888, "My ancestors were Polish noblemen (Nietzky); the type seems to have been well preserved despite three generations of German mothers."[113] At one point Nietzsche becomes even more adamant about his Polish identity. "I am a pure-blooded Polish nobleman, without a single drop of bad blood, certainly not German blood."[114] On yet another occasion Nietzsche stated "Germany is a great nation only because its people have so much Polish blood in their veins [...] I am proud of my Polish descent."[115] Nietzsche believed his name might have been Germanized, in one letter claiming, "I was taught to ascribe the origin of my blood and name to Polish noblemen who were called Niëtzky and left their home and nobleness about a hundred years ago, finally yielding to unbearable suppression: they were Protestants."[116]

Such conviction! Alas:

"Most scholars dispute Nietzsche's account of his family's origins."

INTJ, end of story.

 

[BigApplePi]

Beehive also feels like instiction to me. That's a term from another typology, an internet test we have had around. I'm not completely conscious of what that word means to me.

When I tried beehive* for an INTP analogy I realize that's not the best. I was thinking Fe for all the energy put into various functions and Ti for the logical organization and compartmentalization of what goes on inside the beehive. One could also add Ne for the search for nectar to support the beehive.

Oddly, or not so oddly, the wife and I had visited a local who showed us a couple of beehives including the queen. He wore a net over his head but I noticed his hands were uncovered as bees hovered all around him. I kept a reasonable distance.

Anyway one can play with these analogies and hopefully come up with something fitting.

*BAP: How about Fe is a beehive and Ti is what goes on inside the beehive?

 

[nanook]

I didn't even realize what a beehive is, i mistranslated the word in my mind, to mean a friggin' cloud of angry beans coming at cha, lol. I'll think about it again, after 10 hours of sleep .... yeah, it makes more sense to me, with that explaination.