DGH's matchmaking advice for INTPs

[bvanevery]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

or ...

• S and N don't understand each other

I think I often understand how S's come at the world, I just don't like how they approach stuff. Too stupid, or too materialistic, in a lot of cases. I'm an over-the-top N.

• E and I are at odds with each other

Not in my experience, but I don't think I'm strongly 'I'.

• J and P need each other

No I don't. Strong Js can get lost.

• T and F desire each other

Not in my experience / not in any inherent type categorical sense. I can find Fs refreshing, I can find them damn annoying. Ts who don't share the same principles as you do, are also damn annoying.

 

[The Meowtrix-Za Boha]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Speaking as a male INTP, I once dated an INFJ, and her I was very weak (I think she was actually an ENFJ, but the test said otherwise). I don't mind the E (though it did get tiring at times), the N was great, always keeping things interesting. The F got annoying, but nothing major; however, I think that the J was the main problem. We INTPs are too free flowing and easygoing for Js to understand, and she got frustrated at me a lot.
That was my only relationship, and it ended within a year by her surprise-dumping me (not appreciated, to say the least; never dump an INTP, our feelings, though somewhat invisible, run very strong with the ones we love).
Really, I'd guess another INTP would be ideal; the loyalty, easy-goingness, and love for ideas are all very important aspects that simply aren't in a lot of other types.

 

[Architect]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

I can definitely see the idea behind this.

On the whole marriages tend to go this way in my experience, which regardless of the reasons is the best argument for it.

Speaking as a male INTP, I once dated an INFJ, and her I was very weak (I think she was actually an ENFJ, but the test said otherwise). I don't mind the E (though it did get tiring at times), the N was great, always keeping things interesting. The F got annoying, but nothing major; however, I think that the J was the main problem. ...

It sounds like she probably really was an ENFJ. Because of the dominant extraversion their external Judging is subjectively stronger than for a dominant Introvert external Judger. That is EJ's are annoyingly Judging because they try to order everything and have the extraversion to attempt it. IJ's are more even handed about ordering the outer world. They'll be more 'passing judgement' types (via Fe with the INFJ), versus trying to push people around like the Teacher ENFJ does.

Which is why on balance I think an ENFJ is a poorer mate for an INTP than an INFJ.

 

[EggCustard]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

I like NT types the best.
NFs are okay if they arent evil and manipulative.

 

[silikone]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

I speak from no experience, but I'd imagine that two INTPs would make great friendships, but with no spark to keep the love going. It will get boring when you get to know each other so well that nothing is unpredictable and novel.

In the case of only the first two letters being the same, the judging functions are the same, albeit in reverse order, while the perceiving functions are not. I like to think that this an ideal combination. The former makes it easier to agree and avoid conflicts, and the latter makes it more interesting.

 

[bvanevery]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

I speak from no experience, but I'd imagine that two INTPs would make great friendships, but with no spark to keep the love going. It will get boring when you get to know each other so well that nothing is unpredictable and novel.

So what's your prescription? Don't try, unless you think you have a high chance of something lasting longer than "2 years" or whatever your imagined threshold for boredom is? Well what about the value of those 2 years, even if it doesn't work out? Aside from the fact that your proposition is sheer speculation. Lots of romances fizzle over time, it isn't a MBTI determined thing. It has to do a lot with whether the couple are motivated to try to do various things to keep sparks alive.

 

[silikone]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

So what's your prescription? Don't try, unless you think you have a high chance of something lasting longer than "2 years" or whatever your imagined threshold for boredom is?

Well, the thread is about ideals. Of course you shouldn't blindly follow your dreams, but you should definitely not put them aside either.

 

[baccheion]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Many polls over many years and many threads across many forums have consistently left INTPs saying they'd choose/want INFJs.

I have this theory friends and acquaintances have the best general experience when they share the same perceiving function. In this case that would put INTPs, ENTPs, ENFPs, and INFPs on the table. I'm not sure if this is true in romantic relationships, but as there needs to be psychological ease/compatibility, one could use this to narrow down the options. You can then add back in the INFJ and also the ENTJ (as flipping the first and last letters reveals the ideal business partner-- if you could find one you're compatible with).

There's usually a lot of natural chemistry between an INTP and an ENFP, but I'd remove ENFPs from the list, as things tend to not work out as well once you go from friends to romantic partners (they tend to need too much attention; can't handle criticism (made worse by them easily taking something as criticism); and are prone to paranoia, projection, irrationality, and making strange/BS accusations).

That leaves INTPs, ENTPs, INFPs, INFJs, and ENTJs.

Female INTPs seem attracted to ENTJs in a way similar to a male INTP's attraction to an INFJ. Attraction aside, I'm not sure how good an INTP + ENTJ pairing is in a long-term relationship.

You can add ESFPs into the mix, as Socionics says they are an INTP's dual, though I'm not sure how likely it would be for an INTP to find a compatible ESFP (that's also interested in them).

 

[OmoInisa]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Many polls over many years and many threads across many forums have consistently left INTPs saying they'd choose/want INFJs.

This is deceptive. It's simply herd behaviour. Most of those people didn't arrive at this idea independently by subjecting various concepts to a rigorous test of logic and experience. My take is that it comes basically from Keirsey, via Drenth, with an added helping of the fetishisation of the INFJ in the MBTI community. The INFJ is the fantasy woman that a disproportionate number of the male type enthusiasts yearn for, INTP or not.

A parallel strand within the community takes after the PersonalityPage idea of the ENTJ being the ideal for the INTP. This latter one is less common among seasoned enthusiasts, and more among newcomers, since PersonalityPage is almost the de facto entry point. It usually doesn't take very long for people to realise the obvious flaws with this model.

I have this theory friends and acquaintances have the best general experience when they share the same perceiving function. In this case that would put INTPs, ENTPs, ENFPs, and INFPs on the table. I'm not sure if this is true in romantic relationships, but as there needs to be psychological ease/compatibility, one could use this to narrow down the options.

You're certainly onto something. Shared perceiving functions seem to create psychological comfort. But how about shared judging functions? What happens when you put INTPs, ENTPs, ISTPs and ESTPs on the table?

You can then add back in the INFJ

Why?

and also the ENTJ (as flipping the first and last letters reveals the ideal business partner-- if you could find one you're compatible with).

Why does flipping the first and last letter give you this? I happen to think you're correct on the good business partner point, but you may be simply borrowing a notion from PersonalityPage. What's the function-centric justification?

There's usually a lot of natural chemistry between an INTP and an ENFP, but I'd remove ENFPs from the list, as things tend to not work out as well once you go from friends to romantic partners

Yep

Female INTPs seem attracted to ENTJs in a way similar to a male INTP's attraction to an INFJ.

Absolutely. Blame gender roles.

Attraction aside, I'm not sure how good an INTP + ENTJ pairing is in a long-term relationship.

Best avoided. They'd be better sticking to being business partners or platonic friends, and even then, best to have separate, clear roles. And they'd be a force of nature together if they did this. This is also a guide to how a marriage could function well between an NTP and an NTJ. Closing psychological distance and fudging roles doesn't lead to good things.

You can add ESFPs into the mix, as Socionics says they are an INTP's dual

TiNe is INTj in Socionics, not INTp. ESFP and INTp are actually the exact opposite of perfect.

though I'm not sure how likely it would be for an INTP to find a compatible ESFP (that's also interested in them).

Not very.

 

[baccheion]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

This is deceptive. It's simply herd behaviour. Most of those people didn't arrive at this idea independently by subjecting various concepts to a rigorous test of logic and experience. My take is that it comes basically from Keirsey, via Drenth, with an added helping of the fetishisation of the INFJ in the MBTI community. The INFJ is the fantasy woman that a disproportionate number of the male type enthusiasts yearn for, INTP or not.

A parallel strand within the community takes after the PersonalityPage idea of the ENTJ being the ideal for the INTP. This latter one is less common among seasoned enthusiasts, and more among newcomers, since PersonalityPage is almost the de facto entry point. It usually doesn't take very long for people to realise the obvious flaws with this model.



You're certainly onto something. Shared perceiving functions seem to create psychological comfort. But how about shared judging functions? What happens when you put INTPs, ENTPs, ISTPs and ESTPs on the table?



Why?



Why does flipping the first and last letter give you this? I happen to think you're correct on the good business partner point, but you may be simply borrowing a notion from PersonalityPage. What's the function-centric justification?



Yep



Absolutely. Blame gender roles.



Best avoided. They'd be better sticking to being business partners or platonic friends, and even then, best to have separate, clear roles. And they'd be a force of nature together if they did this. This is also a guide to how a marriage could function well between an NTP and an NTJ. Closing psychological distance and fudging roles doesn't lead to good things.



TiNe is INTj in Socionics, not INTp. ESFP and INTp are actually the exact opposite of perfect.



Not very.

Flipping the last two letters is mainly based on my personal experiences and observations, and consistent commentary from many other INTPs (male) across the web.

INTPs are sometimes INTj according to Socionics and at other times INTp. This is why some (INTj according to Socionics) have OK relationships with ENFJs, while others (like myself) can't stand them.

 

[Architect]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

This is deceptive. It's simply herd behaviour. Most of those people didn't arrive at this idea independently by subjecting various concepts to a rigorous test of logic and experience. My take is that it comes basically from Keirsey, via Drenth, with an added helping of the fetishisation of the INFJ in the MBTI community. The INFJ is the fantasy woman that a disproportionate number of the male type enthusiasts yearn for, INTP or not.

I agree there is herd behavior here, mainly because it's difficult to test or have first hand information on it. However I think there is good evidence and logical reasons for this

First, observationally people tend to align on the first two letters and differ on the last two. In my experience this is the predominant pattern. We can have a discussion about this, or look around for my posts on this (maybe I already did so on this thread). Given this INFJ would match with INTP.

Second, the value Ni and Ne have for each other. Drench has written a piece on this, please refer to that.

Third, Kiersey actually said ENFJ (I believe it was) in PUM I based on the 'Opposites Attract' theory. In PUM II I believe is when he altered the theory to above, first two match latter two differ, with reasoning behind it.

Fourth, there are examples of INTP/INFJ pairings where the individuals attestation. Drenth/Elaine and Architect/BrideOfArchitect. I could write a small book here on the reasons why it works so well, the issues to be aware of, and so forth.

So, take it or leave it. I've got expertise in Type and have known a lot of people in my life, if you want the 'ideal' this is it, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[baccheion]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

I agree there is herd behavior here, mainly because it's difficult to test or have first hand information on it. However I think there is good evidence and logical reasons for this

First, observationally people tend to align on the first two letters and differ on the last two. In my experience this is the predominant pattern. We can have a discussion about this, or look around for my posts on this (maybe I already did so on this thread). Given this INFJ would match with INTP.

Second, the value Ni and Ne have for each other. Drench has written a piece on this, please refer to that.

Third, Kiersey actually said ENFJ (I believe it was) in PUM I based on the 'Opposites Attract' theory. In PUM II I believe is when he altered the theory to above, first two match latter two differ, with reasoning behind it.

Fourth, there are examples of INTP/INFJ pairings where the individuals attestation. Drenth/Elaine and Architect/BrideOfArchitect. I could write a small book here on the reasons why it works so well, the issues to be aware of, and so forth.

So, take it or leave it. I've got expertise in Type and have known a lot of people in my life, if you want the 'ideal' this is it, as far as I'm concerned.

Well, then write a book. The more information there is on this pairing the better.

Also worth mentioning is that INFJs are either great, or "crazy bitch" (as other INTPs commonly say). The latter isn't as common, but they pop up often enough to be worth mentioning.

If INTPs and INFJs are the same gender or the INFJ is male, then admiration (from INFJs) can easily be replaced with envy or competitiveness. That is, while they are often fans of the NT brain, they want it to be them.

 

[Architect]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Well, then write a book. The more information there is on this pairing the better.

Sure, on the wishlist of things I should do but will surely never find the time

Also worth mentioning is that INFJs are either great, or "crazy bitch" (as other INTPs commonly say). The latter isn't as common, but they pop up often enough to be worth mentioning.

In my experience there are always those two aspects. And since most women are dominant F's, therefore most INFJ's are female you get a monthly tie in. I get the impression this is true for all NF's to some amount, their intuition and feeling just swirl into some kind of cyclical personal clusterfuck. I wouldn't be surprised if it's stronger for INFJ's having dominant Ni though.

This is one of the issues I alluded to above. INTP mates need to be relaxed about these episodes. Humor, just listening and not strongly reacting is the best approach to diffuse the bomb.

If INTPs and INFJs are the same gender or the INFJ is male, then admiration (from INFJs) can easily be replaced with envy or competitiveness. That is, while they are often fans of the NT brain, they want it to be them.

Possibly, I've heard that INTP woman aren't as attracted to INFJ males as the vice-versa (INTP mens attraction to INFJ females)

 

[baccheion]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Sure, on the wishlist of things I should do but will surely never find the time

In my experience there are always those two aspects. And since most women are dominant F's, therefore most INFJ's are female you get a monthly tie in. I get the impression this is true for all NF's to some amount, their intuition and feeling just swirl into some kind of cyclical personal clusterfuck. I wouldn't be surprised if it's stronger for INFJ's having dominant Ni though.

This is one of the issues I alluded to above. INTP mates need to be relaxed about these episodes. Humor, just listening and not strongly reacting is the best approach to diffuse the bomb.

Possibly, I've heard that INTP woman aren't as attracted to INFJ males as the vice-versa (INTP mens attraction to INFJ females)

Sure. Putting up with the episodes is different from having it be what they are most of the time. If it's what they are most of the time, then I'm about not being anywhere near them (let alone involved with them), as I'm extremely annoyed by high levels of irrationality, projection, and BS accusations; and it usually ends up being distressing and agonizing having to be around them.

If they are otherwise alright, then I don't even notice the "woman" moments.

 

[Graznel]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Labeling myself as an INTP is bad enough since before that I used to think that personality is somewhat fluid, but it helped to know myself better (it's easier to objectively judge other INTPs than it is to judge myself). But I wouldn't trust MBTI further than that. Me and my ex gf are both INTP, but we were pretty different on more levels...

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I believe in the philosophy of any type being potentially well suited for someone of any other type. There's the whole idea that you'd ideally want someone similar however not too similar, however given that MBTI only covers a somewhat small portion of a person's personality, there is no reason that same type relations should be discounted, and may even be ideal.

There's I guess the argument that you would want to be paired with someone who you can relate to yet still differ from, as suggested by theories such as wanting someone with the same 4 cognitive functions, or for enneagram, to be along the integration/disintegration lines.

Overall, I would say one's type, i.e. how one scores in a personality inventory, is of fairly little importance in determing compatibility, whatever that word means in human relations, and that having a "wrong type", according to one model or another, should certainly be no hindrance.

 

[QuickTwist]

I believe in the philosophy of any type being potentially well suited for someone of any other type. There's the whole idea that you'd ideally want someone similar however not too similar, however given that MBTI only covers a somewhat small portion of a person's personality, there is no reason that same type relations should be discounted, and may even be ideal.

There's I guess the argument that you would want to be paired with someone who you can relate to yet still differ from, as suggested by theories such as wanting someone with the same 4 cognitive functions, or for enneagram, to be along the integration/disintegration lines.

Overall, I would say one's type, i.e. how one scores in a personality inventory, is of fairly little importance in determing compatibility, whatever that word means in human relations, and that having a "wrong type", according to one model or another, should certainly be no hindrance.

How can someone have a wrong type?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

How can someone have a wrong type?

What I mean is: look for example at socionics, where 2 people's types can be each others' "conflictors". By this approach, it would seem that they are ill-suited to positive relations by virtue of their personality types, however I don't believe that this is a phenomena which is very reflective of reality. You can get on well with someone even if your socionics types are ill-suited to each other, according to the socionics theory. It is, after all, just a theory - a model of relations, rather than a direct representation of human relations. There is the risk of taking such models too seriously, as I myself have fallen prey to in the past.

 

[QuickTwist]

What I mean is: look for example at socionics, where 2 people's types can be each others' "conflictors". By this approach, it would seem that they are ill-suited to positive relations by virtue of their personality types, however I don't believe that this is a phenomena which is very reflective of reality. You can get on well with someone even if your socionics types are ill-suited to each other, according to the socionics theory. It is, after all, just a theory - a model of relations, rather than a direct representation of human relations. There is the risk of taking such models too seriously, as I myself have fallen prey to in the past.

What is your stance on binary thought?

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

What is your stance on binary thought?

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Based on my own previous musings, I would say that I have a tendency towards it however that it is something that is to be transcended. I like the introduction of a third option in any decision, and I like to point out that even binary on a computer occasionally does something other than the standard on/off, and to quote the mathematical idea (vaguely applied) that "period 3 implies chaos". Keeping to a one-or-the-other mode of thought is efficient however limiting.

 

[QuickTwist]

Could you elaborate on what you mean by this?

Based on my own previous musings, I would say that I have a tendency towards it however that it is something that is to be transcended. I like the introduction of a third option in any decision, and I like to point out that even binary on a computer occasionally does something other than the standard on/off, and to quote the mathematical idea (vaguely applied) that "period 3 implies chaos". Keeping to a one-or-the-other mode of thought is efficient however limiting.

Hm..

I mean thinking in black and white categories. In other words, things fall into fewer categories than they do fit into.

Trilinear thinking is much more complex. It requires keeping track of many variables at the same time. Whatever ways there are of thinking of things two dimensionally, there are many more ways to conclude something with 2/3 outcomes.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

Also worth mentioning is that INFJs are either great, or "crazy bitch" (as other INTPs commonly say). The latter isn't as common, but they pop up often enough to be worth mentioning.

If INTPs and INFJs are the same gender or the INFJ is male, then admiration (from INFJs) can easily be replaced with envy or competitiveness. That is, while they are often fans of the NT brain, they want it to be them.

"Crazy bitch" mode is usually the result of new/completely unexpected emotional experiences associated with specific individuals. It does actually subside. ymmv

I've actually never encountered that envy thing. I have done something that looks superficially similar though. A lot of the time, NT-folk can't easily explain things in an understandable way, so you have to bait and goad them into doing it, and riling up their emotions by challenging their competence usually accomplishes this.

Possibly, I've heard that INTP woman aren't as attracted to INFJ males as the vice-versa (INTP mens attraction to INFJ females)

I'd imagine that this is where non-heterosexuality kicks in.

I believe in the philosophy of any type being potentially well suited for someone of any other type. There's the whole idea that you'd ideally want someone similar however not too similar, however given that MBTI only covers a somewhat small portion of a person's personality, there is no reason that same type relations should be discounted, and may even be ideal.

There's I guess the argument that you would want to be paired with someone who you can relate to yet still differ from, as suggested by theories such as wanting someone with the same 4 cognitive functions, or for enneagram, to be along the integration/disintegration lines.

Overall, I would say one's type, i.e. how one scores in a personality inventory, is of fairly little importance in determing compatibility, whatever that word means in human relations, and that having a "wrong type", according to one model or another, should certainly be no hindrance.

Pretty much this. Non-type variables are at the core. Physical attractiveness is important in the start-up phase, but otherwise, the most important variables seem to be self-awareness and willingness, regardless of type.

My only question is to what degree individuals of other types are involved in developing one's self-awareness (I'm assuming they are, because that's my experience), and in what order, since I doubt that randomness would do the job.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

/me would be totally down for an INFJ to emotionally manipulate him.


That's how I lost my virginity.

Edit: Eh, not really. Sorry, I'm drunk everyone. I lost my virginity and THEN she emotionally manipulated me.

Edit2: Or maybe I emotionally manipulated myself?



Edirt3: Chicks are for fags

Edit 4: Sometimes I miss how much DrGregoryHouse used to annoy me. I wonder what he's up to these days

 

[Columbo]

i'm an intp and i married an infj. i'm very happy. sex is great too. she is a magical unicorn.

 

[draughtsperson.]

My theory is that the best counterpart for the INTP is the ENTJ, who has almost only been mentioned pejoratively in this thread. The idea is that they have the same functions, in the same order, but with a different attitude. Every function that is introverted in the the INTP, becomes extraverted in the ENTJ. (I'm inclined for a moment to sketch them out one by one, but I don't think the effort is worthwhile - most of you will already get it.)
This would provide a steady base of commonality, and yet a stimulating dynamic of variance. Ti and Te will understand each other, but act in different ways, or to different ends - however, if both parties be willing, I envision they may complement each other, more (readily or steadily) than any other functions could. Mutatis mutandis, the same goes for Ne and Ni, Si and Se, and Fe and Fi. The INTP and the ENTJ, potentially, will fit each other perfectly, and I have personally observed a small number of long-standing and apparently very healthy relationships of this sort.

 

[HDINTP]

Re: Ideal MBTI female companion for a male INTP

ENTJ yes. i agree. I would say that different orientaion of functions gets me going. And I also have to agree with idea of being simillar and yet differ. So same temperament really helps here... ENTJs work perfectly for me in that they are extraverted and decisive (which I lack a lot)

 

[Turnevies]

Perhaps I sound old-fashioned, but I don't think this matchmaking works gender-symmetric, it seems reasonable to me that female INTP, male ENTJ is a good match, while a male INTP can fit better with a more feminine type e.g. EXFP.