demographic decline

[sushi]

what solution do you have to reverse demographic decline

and lowering birth rates.

I think Putin would love to hear your proposal.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Why would you want to decrease demographic decline?

Maybe which should start the rabbits breeding 1.2 program, locust for ever.

Lets eat everything, shit everwhere and die in vomit.
If that is pinnacle of human intellect then we deserve it.

 

[EndogenousRebel]

Yes

 

[onesteptwostep]

This is actually the subject of my study. Korea has it the worst right now, so there's a sense of urgency for those who think about the problem.

The unique dynamic that South Korea faces is North Korea though. If we do not raise our birthrate, our defense minimum posture becomes suspect.

North Korea has 1 million boys at the border, we have 365,000 and it's falling. We only had around 125,000 male births in 2022. In 2040, when these kids are 18, there not might be a force that can sustain defense.

 

[ZenRaiden]

When people are unhappy they don't have kids.

 

[Puffy]

Can the planet sustain the current world population though? This might be a good thing, at least for a while.

 

[Cognisant]

White people are from climates with a great deal of seasonal variation, that's why they're white, you don't need a lot of melanin when you're only exposed to the sun for a few months of the year. Animals in these climates have adapted behaviors and instincts that enable them to survive through the winter, bears fatten up to hibernate, squirrels store nuts, birds migrate, etc. Likewise the people who historically lived in these parts of the world adapted to their environment, they got very good at making lots of food in the summer and storing it up for the winter.

Of course a society that utterly depends upon reliable storage for its survival cannot tolerate thievery, if you live in the tropics and someone steals your coconut just go get another coconut, they literally grow on trees. But if you're relying on your stored food to survive a long cold winter someone stealing from you becomes a matter of life or death, it might not kill you outright but that doesn't matter, the outcome is the same.

This created the white mentality, we worry about the future and we're very aware of ourselves as part of a community in a way people from other parts of the world just aren't. Global warming is a very white person thing to worry about, overpopulation is a very white person thing to worry about, ideals like equality are a very white person thing to worry about.

The point I've been building up to is that there isn't some grand conspiracy to erase/replace white people, we did it to ourselves, the Han Chinese also did it to themselves, both races saw overpopulation as a threat and took action to avert the impending disaster, as is our nature.

The problem is brown people don't think this way, no matter how utterly dirt poor and wildly overpopulated their countries are they'll keep breeding like rabbits, and their solution to the problems this creates, is barbarism.

So we're heading for a future where whites are becoming increasingly rare, even in countries that have been historically primarily white, and in the relative absence of their stabilizing influence the world is going to increasingly look like South Africa and Haiti.

I'm not going to argue this with anyone, I wish I was wrong, I'd love to be wrong, I sincerely hope you're right and everything I just wrote couldn't be further from the truth.

 

[birdsnestfern]

When they said the meek shall inherit the earth, we will soon know what that really means.

We may soon celebrate the end of the world - get your cockroach and rat costumes ready.

Seriously though, Nostradamus says drought and famine and floods for 2024. So, have some means of water storage and extra food. Honey as well. Maybe a raft.

 

[ZenRaiden]

been historically primarily white

Dude you have more DNA common if aboriginal than with anyone in Africa.
99 percent of people outside of Africa are brown whites.
Get help. I get brown when I am out in the sun too, and your DNA is not special.
Except few tribes in Africa 99, 99 DNA is just like everyone else.
Thousands of men die everyday and no one misses their DNA.
Your color or white skin or heritage or brown khakis don't make you special.
Get glows and punch something.

 

[sushi]

When people are unhappy they don't have kids.

thats very true, dislike for society in general will cause less birthrate

or the cost is to have and support children is too high

 

[Cognisant]

been historically primarily white

Dude you have more DNA common if aboriginal than with anyone in Africa.
99 percent of people outside of Africa are brown whites.
Get help. I get brown when I am out in the sun too, and your DNA is not special.
Except few tribes in Africa 99, 99 DNA is just like everyone else.
Thousands of men die everyday and no one misses their DNA.
Your color or white skin or heritage or brown khakis don't make you special.
Get glows and punch something.

That's an emotional knee-jerk reaction if I've ever seen one.

It's understandable, you were raised by a society that drummed tolerance into you like your life (or theirs) depended upon it. That too is understandable as a reaction to the atrocities of the past, but the past is the past and we cannot let our inherited guilt blind us to reality.

 

[ZenRaiden]

thats very true, dislike for society in general will cause less birthrate

or the cost is to have and support children is too high

No you can hate society, but be happy.
You can like society and be happy.
Happy as in you being happy.
Society does sometimes impact happiness of individuals, but its not the same thing.
I specifically mean happiness to have kids and happiness to be in relationship.
You can have kids besides that too, but often leads to divorces or toxic family dynamics and negative outcomes in all ways including crimes and suicide etc.
SO I don't mean happy as in "ha ha happy" I mean actually happy.

 

[ZenRaiden]

It's understandable, you were raised by a society that drummed tolerance into you

Must have failed at their job, because I hate current society in many ways.
We can complain, because there is plenty to complain about.

 

[Black Rose]

@Cognisant

China is extremely isolationist, they do brutal things to survive and they will keep doing so.

In the West as long as intelligence is required to be in top positions we may see the same thing but in a different flavor.

You understand that people who go west are more intelligent so it only matters that people get out of those places where the violence increases.

Technology will be used to control the populous in any case.

 

[ZenRaiden]

China is extremely isolationist, they do brutal things to survive and they will keep doing so.

Black Rose btw this is not an attack, but let me illustrate.....

I have heard this, yet "China" seems to be doing what everyone else is doing.
India does brutal things too.
Japan does brutal things too.
Australia does brutal things too.
Russia does brutal things too.
Ukraine does brutal things too.
UK does brutal things too.
Israel does brutal things too.
Gaza does brutal things too.
So either we specify or it seems everyone does it.
I cannot think of many nations that don't do something brutal.
The only reason you say "china" is because you read the news and propaganda bombards you with 100 things china does.
If you read the news about 100 brutal things India does, then you'd say India, or Malaysia, or Indonesia etc.

I think this topic like many topics on this forum have zero resolution.
Which leads to absurd comments we make.
We either agree on generalities or we go back to basics or talk about facts, but either way we are talking crap.

I feel like this should be thread of its own, but seems lately we are talking past each other in ways that makes little sense.

If you know what I mean.....

 

[Black Rose]

We either agree on generalities or we go back to basics or talk about facts

How do you think China will handle demographic decline?

Do you think they will do things differently from what the West will do?

If so, how with the West be different from the East in surviving demographic decline?

So far they (China) will not I believe, have immigration and if they do will do so on slave-based labor I believe.

I cannot think of many nations that don't do something brutal.
The only reason you say "china" is because

On the scale of China, 1.4 billion people will deal with the decline in an industrial way.

Not sure what they will do but it will be large camps involved like they do again and again. like they are doing with the Uyghurs.

 

[Black Rose]

if anything, robots will be used in both east and west

 

[ZenRaiden]

On the scale of China, 1.4 billion people will deal with the decline in an industrial way.

Not sure what they will do but it will be large camps involved like they do again and again. like they are doing with the Uyghurs.

What are they doing with Uyghurs?

How do you think China will handle demographic decline?

They already did.

 

[Black Rose]

What are they doing with Uyghurs?

many things, but mostly they are putting them in work camps.

How do you think China will handle demographic decline?

They already did.

can you explain?

 

[ZenRaiden]

many things, but mostly they are putting them in work camps.

Yeah, I have heard that. Been following the issue for long time.
At least that is what the west says.

can you explain?

They had a demographic decline, and they are still here.
Simple.

 

[Black Rose]

They had a demographic decline, and they are still here.
Simple.

it is too soon to say though.

the number of young people is not growing fast enough to support the old people.

what is China going to do about that? what is the West going to do?

I already said that the answer is robots but most people I tell this to say it is sci-fi and not going to happen.

 

[ZenRaiden]

what is China going to do about that? what is the West going to do?

No one will do anything. Because you dont produce children because of old people.
Population either grow or decline. Simple.
All population grow and then decline.
Same as everything in nature.
Who are the people that say we have to solve this issue and why?

 

[Black Rose]

what is China going to do about that? what is the West going to do?

No one will do anything. Because you dont produce children because of old people.
Population either grow or decline. Simple.
All population grow and then decline.
Same as everything in nature.
Who are the people that say we have to solve this issue and why?

If the old cannot support themselves are they just going to die?

old people vote, this means they can take many resources from young people.

society will be different, that is a fact. has nothing to do with right or wrong.

 

[ZenRaiden]

If the old cannot support themselves are they just going to die?

old people vote, this means they can take many resources from young people.

society will be different, that is a fact. has nothing to do with right or wrong.

Young people need care, and 18 years to be supported, are we going to stop having kids, because they are free loaders?
Half the people dont vote are we going to abolish voting?
See I can make up smart questions too.
Your questions are jumping to conclusions, that were made for you by someone else.

Here is simple question. Why people have kids?

 

[Black Rose]

Young people need care, and 18 years to be supported, are we going to stop having kids, because they are free loaders?

no

Half the people dont vote are we going to abolish voting?

you tell me?

See I can make up smart questions too.

yes

Your questions are jumping to conclusions, that were made for you by someone else.

no

Here is simple question. Why people have kids?

you do not believe society will change and that is naive on your part.

please stick to the facts and not your assumption about me personally.

what are the consequences of demographic decline if they exist?

yes or no: consequences exist?

 

[Black Rose]

If things are not going to change there is no reason to have this discussion.

Things will change I believe and so I simply want to know what those changes will lead to, what is going to happen when people have less and less kids?

I have ideas but I do not know what others think yet.

Resource management is the biggest shift that will happen.

 

[ZenRaiden]

you do not believe society will change and that is naive on your part.

please stick to the facts and not your assumption about me personally.

what are the consequences of demographic decline if they exist?

yes or no: consequences exist?

Its not your on anyones job to make other people have sex and children.
That is why we have democracy and not nazi germany.
You are being defensive, because you identify with other peoples ideas that are not your own.
You have not given it a single thought you just accepted common narrative.
And now you are defending it, like its your own.
I never made assumptions about you if you care to read what I said.
You made assumptions about boys and girls that need to have sex and children and now you want to control them so granpa and granma can have slightly better pensions.
Democracy is not a tyranny.

 

[Black Rose]

You made assumptions about boys and girls that need to have sex and children and now you want to control them so granpa and granma can have slightly better pensions.

F U, no I did not: Post 26

demographic decline

what solution do you have to reverse demographic decline and lowering birth rates. I think Putin would love to hear your proposal.

www.intpforum.com

 

[Black Rose]

you do not believe society will change and that is naive on your part.

please stick to the facts and not your assumption about me personally.

what are the consequences of demographic decline if they exist?

yes or no: consequences exist?

Its not your on anyones job to make other people have sex and children.

You are assuming I think it is my job which is incorrect thus you are making this a personal issue against me, misrepresenting what I believe.

That is why we have democracy and not nazi germany.

Calling other nazis because you can not use facts instead of personal attacks and assumptions of others is you problem not mine.

You are being defensive, because you identify with other peoples ideas that are not your own.

You called me a nazi, FU no I am not.

You have not given it a single thought you just accepted common narrative.

Post 26.

And now you are defending it, like its your own.

Post 26

I never made assumptions about you if you care to read what I said.

Yes you did. You called me a nazi and that I defend such beliefs.

You made assumptions about boys and girls that need to have sex and children and now you want to control them so granpa and granma can have slightly better pensions.

Post 26

Democracy is not a tyranny.

I am not saying it is.

 

[Black Rose]

https://www.weforum.org/videos/5-biggest-global-risks-next-2-years/

Google: World Economic Forum and demographics

According to a World Economic Forum (WEF) report, the world needs to adjust to a new demographic era as the number of people over 65 is expected to more than double by 2050. The report also states that demographic trends show structural issues in labor supply.

Demographic transition theory is the theory that societies progress from a pre-modern regime of high fertility and high mortality to a post-modern regime of low fertility and low mortality.

The model has four stages: Pre-industrial, Urbanizing/industrializing, Mature industrial, Post-industrial.

In general, countries in the early stages of the transition have a younger age structure than countries in the later stages. Birth rates tend to fall as nations get richer, and this phenomenon will impact more and more developing nations as the century progresses

Here are some other predictions for society in 2050:

• Technology
  Technology will be integrated into many aspects of society, including the workplace and home. Artificial intelligence and smart assistants will be commonplace, and everything will be connected and data-driven.
• Work
  White-collar workers will be able to work from anywhere, anytime, and the 9-to-5 workday will be a thing of the past.
• Automation
  Robots and automation will be common in many industries, including healthcare, transportation, and manufacturing. This could lead to more creative and fulfilling work for people, but it could also mean that many jobs are automated.
• Environmental changes
  The Earth's resources could decrease significantly, and the oceans and air could become unusable due to pollution and smog.
• Climate change
  Climate hazards are expected to increase globally by the 2030s, with more heat waves, coastal flooding, and crop failures.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Google: World Economic Forum and demographics

OK BR I can find more convincing reasons for why demographic decline is issue and dry statistics are not the issue really. They are issue for pension fund grifters, and tax payer grifters ergo military and politicians.
Labor shortage is not a real issue.
Its only issue if you want cheap labor and don't want to pay up to working class people, because its easier when working class people are in material scarcity.
Its not an issue for you and me, its an issue for companies that want wage slavery.
Are you in need of labor? Am I in need of labor?
Maybe military wants more soldiers ergo canno fodder for war.
When have you need for war? Did the war in Afghanistan make your life happier or better? Did the people who fight in that war get better life?
Are veterans happy people?

You are assuming I think it is my job which is incorrect thus you are making this a personal issue against me, misrepresenting what I believe.

No I don't think you actually care. Reasons why you don't care is because you have not given it much thought.
Hence the question is why do you care that ideas that are presented to you are so important to you.
The answer is you were told to care about population decline, because fear makes people act. If people want to act, they will act even when there is no reason to act.
If you make people concerned and act even when it is not in their favor, then you can control them.
So who suffers if there is less people in this world?

 

[Black Rose]

No I don't think you actually care. Reasons why you don't care is because you have not given it much thought.
Hence the question is why do you care that ideas that are presented to you are so important to you.

You made this an issue about me personally so shut the fuck up if you do not want to discuss the thread topic.

The answer is you were told to care about population decline,

that is not the answer, shut the **** ** and **** ****.

because fear makes people act. If people want to act, they will act even when there is no reason to act.
If you make people concerned and act even when it is not in their favor, then you can control them.
So who suffers if there is less people in this world?

Bullshit.

I am not doing any of that.

Grow the fuck up.

 

[Black Rose]

Labor shortage is not a real issue.

your answer is : No

that demographic decline has no consequences.

that means this thread topic is useless because no actual problem exists.

yes or no: consequences exist?

 

[ZenRaiden]

your answer is : No

that demographic decline has no consequences.

that means this thread topic is useless because no actual problem exists.

No, you are trying to simplify it.
Of course there is consequence.
I answered your question, I just did not check your box, because its pointless box to check.
There is some outcome of anything that happens in this civilization.
Whether we like it or not.
And of course some of this outcomes are not what we want and some are unpredictable.
Decline of population will simply bring its own problems.
Thats the point I made.
Does not mean we should give governmental bodies the right to bully people into having kids.
Or that averting decline is necessary.
Maybe the decline is natural and it will go up again after some time and people will start having kids again.
We don't know that.
Humans are however impacted by many things.
It is important to figure out why for instance the boomer era happened, and why today people don't have kids, the trouble is forcing the issue is lost cause.

 

[Black Rose]

Things will happen because of the decline.

I am saying this happens regardless of any moral concerns.

I did not suggest any response as to what to do about it.

 

[ZenRaiden]

Things will happen because of the decline.

yeah.

I am saying this happens regardless of any moral concerns.

What moral concerns? That there will be seven billion people instead of 8 billion?
Were there 1200 last humans on Earth Id be concerned.

I did not suggest any response as to what to do about it.

You never do. Thats something to think about.

 

[Black Rose]

the resource management of the planet will shift

some people would consider that a moral concern

because suffering might happen

 

[ZenRaiden]

the resource management of the planet will shift

some people would consider that a moral concern

because suffering might happen

Resources are moral concern, but then we have to know how to do it.
So ultimately we also have to figure out how. Which will be informed by morals, but actions will be taken by way of knowing.

 

[Black Rose]

no one here seems to know what will happen when the decline happens

as far as has happened no one wanted to discuss the possibilities of what might happen.

yet I believe some people have ideas of what might happen in high gov offices where they store the data on all the world's statistics

 

[scorpiomover]

no one here seems to know what will happen when the decline happens

as far as has happened no one wanted to discuss the possibilities of what might happen.

If you want to know what might happen, Google "videos of what happens to cities when they are abandoned".

yet I believe some people have ideas of what might happen in high gov offices where they store the data on all the world's statistics

The countries that have a native population decline, are the same countries with lots of immigration. So technically, their populations are rising.

 

[ZenRaiden]

no one here seems to know what will happen when the decline happens

Yeah we do, there will be less people, but its not like people stopped having kids.
The decline already happened and we are already living in it.
Boomers would have 20 kids.
Now people have 1.5 kids.
So the result of decline happened for decades now.

yet I believe some people have ideas of what might happen in high gov offices where they store the data on all the world's statistics

these data are available.
At least in my country.
Anyone can go online and look at them.
Very boring data.
Statistics are not reality.
Statistics are very specific slices of reality.
Often times incomplete.