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Dealing with Laziness and intellectual inferiority.

BurnedOut

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#1
Hello fellow INTPs. I want to talk about a chronic illness of mine - Laziness and lax nature towards deadlines and exams.

I've these various phases where I'm extremely motivated to research on a new topic after getting my ass burnt by looking at some knowledgeable character on TV or hearsay. The motivation revs me up so much that I get obsessed with it till I conceptually expertise in that topic. However, my memory decides to revolt and then I end up forgetting many things about the topic and I feel like I know nothing. I'll list some of the ass-burning sources :

1. Sherlock : made me research on forensic science, pathology, blood splatter analysis and trace analysis. I joined science of deductions (reddit) , started studying fabric and observing stuff in general. Ongoing ambition in this thread? Now learning the anatomical structure of the human body when I get time. Why this thread was slowly abandoned? I found better topics later on and realised that I'm so much in my head that it'd impossible for me to observe things like sherlock holmes does. However I can circumstantially analyse things at a great speed. Verdict? Now I've forgotten most of the things I read not to mention I had started reading a 1000 page encyclopedia on forensics after completing the basics.

2. Mr Robot : Burned my ass again and made me install kali linux which didn't get installed as my wireless card was not supported. However I installed Ubuntu and now working on doing Bash and some basic python. If anyone has a beginner's guide on bash, please pm me. I simply like to look at the terminal window. It gives me immense pleasure to put commands and execute them however simple. Now I'm hell bent on learning some basic computer stunts to aid my detective skills. Moroever this made me believe that being an intp is not a sin

3. Breakups : made me obsessed with psychology especially regarding breakups. Ended up doing a lot of research including reading several scientific articles to get to the bottom of it on its biological origin. Still haven't been able to move on. Additional info : my exes were intp, infj and enfp.

4. Hannibal : made me obsessed with changing my style of deducing things about someone. I invented this method of intrusive empathy in which I transcend into a state superconsciousness by meditating for around half an hour and then replay the whole scenario by using a make-a-bridge-game mechanism with my cognitive skills at its peek. Had to stop after empathising for solving certain mysteries as it ended up fucking my mental state, giving me spasms and severe depression

I can keep on stating on how I get inspired and then quickly lose focus because I'm unable to sustain my interest for too long. Then main issue here is that I get bored quickly, I have to allot too much time to my hobbies instead of studying keep myself occupied to keep myself sane. Lack of intellectual stimulating drives me crazy.
My eating patterns are erratic and so are sleeping patterns. I love taking naps and brief sleeps. It's a bad habit of mine but I love to lucid dream while I'm going off to sleep. Hones my imagination. I hate moving my ass when I'm engrossed in something and sometimes help people purely for my own entertainment. I constantly feel intellectually inferior due to non-expertise and a constant feeling of not running on high octane mental churning. I made a list of my hobbies which bordered around 10-12 things and yielded a shouting from my mom. I'm ignoring studies. Lately it's been bothering me but I'm unable to get back on track.



Any idea on how the successful INTPs here were able to organise their lives? I tried becoming an istj. It worked for a week and I gave up. Also. I'm not good on iq tests. I'm a brute-force problem solver.

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gps

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#2
I'm extremely motivated to research on a new topic after getting my ass burnt by looking at some knowledgeable character on TV or hearsay.
The motivation revs me up so much that I get obsessed with it till I conceptually expertise in that topic.
Then having discounted that topic the inferiority complex drives you to chase your tail, tilt another Windmill, or gallop off on yet another asymptotic quest?

However, my memory decides to revolt and then I end up forgetting many things about the topic and I feel like I know nothing.
Right. `Feel like' ... an interesting experience for a THINKER, no?

I've been reading your personal expressions for a good 2 or 3 weeks a least.
I'm getting a gist impression of how my interest manifest and how yours seem to.
A word which comes to mind by way of a metaphor is `polymerization'.
I seem to have substantial cross linking between `nodes' of knowledge; your pattern seems to entail low- to no cross linking between what others would recognize as related `nodes'.

To wit, you mentioned regretting NOT haven taken `computer applications' ... then the next I knew you were off on a bash programming Jag without reconciling bash programming with creating your own computer applications ... which might NOT be very highly correlated or compatible with bash scripting.
I get that you're only 17 and don't have a wealth of adult experience -- if any -- which would allow you to intuit or otherwise `make' connections, see similarities, see complimentary relations across would-be dissimilar topics, fields, subjects.
I certainly didn't when was 17.

You've also reported being squeezed for free time to indulge your hobbies.
Yet you didn't ask for insights on which computer language or development strategy would result in learning the most in short, efficient interval, possibly producing apps or programs resulting in high satisfaction, or most likely to NOT become yet another flash in the pan which you quickly forget.

Someone who forgets most of what was `learned' just a scant fascination cycle or two ago might benefit from mind maps, graphs -- as in graph theory -- , relational data bases, and such; bash didn't even come to mind while I was contemplating that list.
Dr. Racket did, as it has a syntax way simpler and more powerful than that of bash as the default shell of Ubuntu.
And it's used by some rather good colleges for courses in problem solving for non-CS majors ... pre-med, etc.
But this may be beside the point, as so long as you flutter from one flower to the next to the next without comparing and contrasting in ways meaningful enough to retain knowledge, know-how, and information then your living the life of an SP/Artisan in the Eternal Present, lacking the ability to time shift from past through the present into the imagined future.

If your programming, note taking, or mind-mapping efforts don't allow you to simulate the NT/rational time sense, retain `facts' over the course of disconcertingly disconnected flirtations and fascinations, or at least provide you with some sense of `Time Management' and double and triple dipping which comes from re-using what one has learned along the way ... I've got no clear picture of how any of your personal patterns might change, mutate, or evolve over time and personal development.
I'm drawing a blank here, dude.

Watching you is like watching a Labrador retriever puppy trying to chase a whole flock of ducks at the same time. :confused:
 

Hadoblado

think again losers
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#3
Why are you choosing fictional people to model yourself on/be inspired by?

Because those people are usually a non-genius' interpretation of genius. A lot of the stuff they do is either impossible (like when Sherlock makes concrete conclusions from impoverished evidence), or presented in their best possible light. They're larger than life.

If I were a body builder, it'd be ambitious to try and be like Ronnie Coleman, but unrealistic to try and be like the hulk.

Re: study
Don't try to be an ISTJ, that'll just burn you out. A big issue with this sort of thing is that people aren't good at thinking in terms of will power because it's not easily quantifiable. You need to find ways that make you able to engage with the subject matter. For me it's often pulling it apart and thinking about the implications, arguing this way or that. It helps when I get along with the teacher.
I relate to your situation, both in the forgetting and the difficulty engaging. I failed a lot of my highschool stuff despite adequate ability. I've since went and got my shit together academically.

I disagree with gps on the whole 'artisan' thing. I forget a lot of the facts I learn, and yeah, it can feel like you're standing still. But you are learning how to learn, and you're developing structure for understanding. This is the purpose of education. Even at university, you're rewarded for picking stuff up in the short term, forgetting it, and then if it's relevant later it's easier to learn once more. You're not really expected to remember stuff you're not using all the time.
 

QuickTwist

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#4
TL;DR

You are not lazy...

Just because you chose to focus on different things than what is expected of you does not mean you are lazy. All it means is that you choose to focus on other things that are not expected of you.
 

BurnedOut

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#5
I do link from cross linking nodes. Immensely but not in a practical sense. I know for a fact that all this research actually sharpens my thinking in some or the other way. There's more of a psychological factor involved rather than a fixated pattern of my behavior. I've been making too many rant posts lately but it's because shit has started going overboard and I don't know from where to exactly seek help. My shrink diagnoses me of low frustration tolerance (aka ADD preliminary) and believes that my instability arises from there. She can't really help me much, neither can my psychologist because they think that my problems are impossible to solve unless and until I get into a university. I've self diagnosed myself as cyclothymia and mild aspergers too.
This doesn't justify the whole thing but I'll add one more perspective. My teenage life has been fucked up. Before I turned 13, was happily fucking off in my own world surrounded by video games, gymnastics and computers and phones. No forceful social interaction. My life was easy. Later as I turned 13-14-15-16, my problems amplified. This is predominantly because of peer pressure and me trying to fit. I gave up when I was 15 and started studying human behavior. That was my first conscious research attempt. I bonded with another intp over cosmology and behavioural analysis. He faces from major depression for many years now. He is brilliant but has given up on his academic endeavours. His current hobby is locking himself in his bedroom for the whole day and play mmorpg or some strategy games obsessively. So, coming back to me, I got into relationships and stuff and quickly realised that this was not made for me. My first girlfriend was an INTP and we broke up because she felt the same and couldn't get over her skepticism. It hit me hard and I got into two rebounds. My researching was still going on but not at this level. Later on, I was in college, things were okay until i had a breakup with a long term relationship with an INFJ. She shook my life up very badly. Then with an ENFP as a rebound. Essentially, I was nothing more than a mess depressed very hard and started facing serious mental health issues including me actually engaging into a potential delinquent act. It took quite some time to settle down and be normal but then I realised that my relationships were just another manifestations of my lack of intellectual quenching. As I reflect back, I can confidently say that my gfs were more of labrats for me and I developed a serious attachments with them over the time. When I say labrats, I'll mention that I had a tendency of obsessively studying them, marking every quirk and personality trait and then try to adapt myself or make them adapt to me in some or the other way. Soon it caused gross ideology mismatches. As I had researched quite a lot on lying, facial expressions, body language and human psychology in general, I started observing their lax nature towards teenage relationships. One may say it doesn't really matter, you are still a kid but I hypothise that the if your emotional centre accoupled with knowledge runs deep, it is highly possible to emulate adult relationships. Either ways it's because they focus less on their limbic relationships and rely on their analytical mind. I don't see how it can't be emulated except the limbic system part. As I a matter of fact, I was able to emulate while my exes couldn't. Later on it proceeded to lying and then I realised that they were along with the rest of teenagers were incapable of deeply feeling emotions and feel strong attachments. I might sound condescending but yes, this is what I face with most people. Apparently I was 'too smart' for their own good and I needed to seek help for my 'apparently nonexistent mental illness manifested as a form of a gross neuroses'

All in want to say is, I'm naturally inclined towards seeking knowledge but yes, I abuse knowledge to keep me sane as well.
One contributing reason is I'm constantly analysing around me. This disengages me from the society as I'm able to see through the smokescreen effectively. Just as curiousity killed the cat, my knowledge killed the peaceful illusion of a good teenage world not laced with malice, manipulation and most importantly greed.

By saying all this, I sound immature. Relationships do matter to me because I care about people and expect them to reciprocate but in vain mostly.
Knowledge right now, is like a drug for me, I'm overdosing on it because I can't cope with the numbness and overwhelmingly low concentrations of dopamine and seratonin


Talking about and gps's apparent accusation of not taking it seriously, I'm taking it seriously and it's impossible to find a good bash guide. So right now, I'm getting acquainted with the most common commands. After I have a grip on them, I'll begin with bash scripting. You might deny but I've tried searching frantically for commandline guides and I cant seem to find them. So I'm following my own methodical approach

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BurnedOut

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#6
Ignore the typo errors please. I've been using my phone for posting and many a times the SwiftKey keyboard is unable to put autocorrection when required and my fingers are not getting adapted too quickly to my new phone which is slightly greater in width.

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#7
Hello fellow INTPs. I want to talk about a chronic illness of mine - Laziness and lax nature towards deadlines and exams.

I've these various phases where I'm extremely motivated to research on a new topic after getting my ass burnt by looking at some knowledgeable character on TV or hearsay. The motivation revs me up so much that I get obsessed with it till I conceptually expertise in that topic. However, my memory decides to revolt and then I end up forgetting many things about the topic and I feel like I know nothing.
Hahahah, that is not an illness. Quite the opposite. That's the healthy default starting position on an INTP's board-game of life.

You'll just keep getting depressed until you make your move. The first move is constructing a direction. A purpose. It is the only mental construct that has a chance to withstand the force of the dopamine incentive short term reward system. Because otherwise, like at the moment, you are just adrift through the valleys of "what feels good", the path of least resistance without a will of your own. And will continue to do so until your time runs out.
 

BurnedOut

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#8
Hahahah, that is not an illness. Quite the opposite. That's the healthy default starting position on an INTP's board-game of life.

You'll just keep getting depressed until you make your move. The first move is constructing a direction. A purpose. It is the only mental construct that has a chance to withstand the force of the dopamine incentive short term reward system. Because otherwise, like at the moment, you are just adrift through the valleys of "what feels good", the path of least resistance without a will of your own. And will continue to do so until your time runs out.
Isn't that more like taking drugs ? (There is a finding that says learning new stuff actually gives an opoid high)

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#9
Isn't that more like taking drugs ? (There is a finding that says learning new stuff actually gives an opoid high)

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What do you refer to by "that"?

Well for INTPs the "high" that they get from thinking probably is higher than other types. But it is still just that, a momentary intoxication. Same as what you get from watching movies, playing games and overeating.

(Have you played portal 2? The only way to stay sane, is to be in it for the science.)
 

BurnedOut

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#10
What do you refer to by "that"?

Well for INTPs the "high" that they get from thinking probably is higher than other types. But it is still just that, a momentary intoxication. Same as what you get from watching movies, playing games and overeating.

(Have you played portal 2? The only way to stay sane, is to be in it for the science.)
Portal series. Goddamn. I love it. Maybe you have a point. But INTP definition is framed in a way that it more or less depicts a high iq person.

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#11
Heheh, IQ is just the mind's problem solving part. It has no will of its own. It needs an incentive(=problem) as badly as a void ray needs a target.

Take 2 people, one with a high IQ and one with a low one. Which one will have more success rationalizing NOT to do homework? Which one will find more of the free entertainment resources on the Internet? Which one is more likely to break the computer-block that their parents setup to try and get them out of their dopamine traps (e.g. of checking the forum every 2 seconds or watching an anime)?

The thing you value most is also the thing that is killing you. Gotta love the irony
 

BurnedOut

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#12
Conscientiousness is highly correlated to success (along with a reasonable IQ albeit even if not too high)

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Serac

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#13
OP, you're using too much time and energy on inventing narratives about yourself instead of actually doing things. Focus more on the latter. Form follows function.
 
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#14
Conscientiousness is highly correlated to success (along with a reasonable IQ albeit even if not too high)

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Correlates, sure, but where do you think conscientiousness comes from? INTPs are not exactly known for our high levels of conscientiousness heheheh.... ugh.......

Take F doms/aux. They have it easier. Why be conscientious? Their world-model starts out tiny. They do it for their parents. Then they do it for their status. Maybe their place in society. For their self-image. That is what makes sense to them. They do it because it feels right. It drives them.

We also do things because it feels right. Models that work; feel right. Things that make sense; feel right. A newborn INTP is given the gift of the first drive. The drive to construct models sporadically(In-between all the animal drives). But the first drive has a short-lived purpose in life: To find a model that has a place in it for OURSELVES. That creates a purpose. Fall short of that, and the only drive you have for the rest of your life is the first drive. BurnedOut: Your first two posts in this thread (the giant ones) describe the perfect example of what that looks like.

Srac said:
OP, you're using too much time and energy on inventing narratives about yourself instead of actually doing things. Focus more on the latter. Form follows function.
True, but unfortunately, INTPs are not tall enough to reach this high. INTPs need to understand why they do things that they do. Otherwise they are just forcing themselves and that won't last long (which makes OP's name quite fitting). Form follows function. Function follows conviction. Conviction follows Self-Knowledge. <-- these are the missing links.
 

Serac

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#15
Conviction follows Self-Knowledge. <-- these are the missing links.
Perhaps, but the only way to acquire a self in the first place is by means of action and experience. Thus this essence of self, or conviction, follows that. Otherwise, all this introspection is just masturbation.
 

BurnedOut

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#16
OP, you're using too much time and energy on inventing narratives about yourself instead of actually doing things. Focus more on the latter. Form follows function.
Are you sure about what you are saying ?

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#17
Perhaps, but the only way to acquire a self in the first place is by means of action and experience. Thus this essence of self, or conviction, follows that. Otherwise, all this introspection is just masturbation.
Very true ^_^ Specifically, the first actions and experiences are the result of the first drive. Therefore this is not a chicken-egg problem. It is a feedback loop that is being kickstarted by nature at a very young age.

This positive-feedback loop needs force to get off the ground. That's the problem. If the feedback loop didn't take during the pre-teen years, well... good luck. Self-knowledge comes naturally at that young age. You know what you like and you go do it. It's not really even a sacrifice, since you don't really have alternatives to pick from or to think about. All that is left is do things.

All that changes with age. Advice like "stop thinking and go do it" no longer corresponds to the drive that the person experiences. Conscious intervention is required to create the mental constructs that should have been developing at their own pace if everything were OK. This problem is made worse by an INTP's belief that since he's so smart, there couldn't possibly be anything wrong with his thinking!

(INTPs are like a little side-project of nature... they didn't quite work out all the kinks.....)
 

Ex-User (8886)

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#18
I have exactly situation and didn't figure it out yet, but some stuff can help:

-accept yourself and don't try be different, it's really better to think that the world is fucked up, than thinking that you are

-pick only one thing and let it be your main thing in life, there was a topic here that INTPs and ISTPs like to do professionally only 1 thing in life and that we rather go deeply on one subject and analyze it completely, than learning things broadly without understanding. (it's really difficult since in young age you don't know what is this one thing, but you should rather listen to your 'hearth' 'intuition' than think about it logically (for example I was always fascinated how brains works and I should go study neurology, but I didn't and I regret it, but now I'm fascinated about sth similar and I can connect it with my current activities (CS, physics) so this one thing can be AI.

-it's good to know what you don't like and in which activities intps are worse than other types, so in my opinion:
the best learners are types with leading perceiving functions(Se, Ni, Ne, Si) and I can't compare to my friends who have better memory and who can learn all day and all night, I'm also not good executor of founded technology or stuff (like using tools)

-what Ti (and also Fi, Te, Fe) people are good at is solving problems and creativity, I found IxFP the most creative type in art and IxTP in science/technology, the INTPs solved the biggest problems in human history and it's sth they are made for. (unfortunately today there is no need for 180 millions INTPs...) so if you want be truly yourself try to develop something new; or you can get random job and just work for money.
-planning... everything, but not too ambitious. try to make plan that you will do something from exact time to exact time and make sure you do it. once you didn't do some point of the plan you won't be motivated to do rest of it.

sorry for a long post, but I was writing it also for myself

Edit: intps are also good at improving systems, because we can easily notice flaws (so we can be also good hackers and use flaws in systems in an evil way https://www.intpforum.com/images/smilies/twistedevil1.gif
 
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