Confronting the Unconscious

[emzjk]

Whether you accept the Freudian concept of the unconscious, the Jungian psychoanalytic definition or you don't believe in unconscious at all, you have come across the term, "inner daemons".

Now, to those who have confronted their inner daemons, which one could call confronting the unconscious, the process can be painful and sometimes it can completely destroy the individual. But for Jung it was the only way to start on the path of individuation.

But here I want to discuss one aspect of this confrontation, which results in complete suppression of the ego consciousness, rendering it helpless. This is something that can only be understood by someone who has experienced how it feels to have lost the ego's will power. The feeling of as if floating around and in complete mercy of the unconscious, which comes to work as an inner force/guide for good/bad... Jung himself was almost brought to verge of suicide during his confrontation with the unconscious and its in his autobiography. So, this is something extremely serious.

For example if anyone has ever contemplated suicide and yet felt that its almost as if someone else has taken over his will and wants to kill him but he himself is completely helpless. That would be an example of the shadow personality overpowering the helpless ego... in Most unfortunate cases the person do commit suicide.

Loss of will power and drive for life and living. That would be the most simple explanation.


I would like know what are you're thoughts. Please don't focus on rebutting because i have not put forward an argument, I'm just writing my opinion and whether its right or wrong is not important, the important part is sharing of idea about inner daemons or confronting the unconscious.

 

[Abraxas]

In case I understood what you meant, then yes, I have lost my self/ego, so to speak. And I achieved it by focusing very deeply on the essence of everything and nothing. Suddenly I was viewing life through no one a sort of abstract bystander and at the sametime through every single partaker. It's very difficult to explain, but I didn't feel any "inner daemons", I felt more like inner gods that told me the truth...nothing special just what I should do with my life....I choose not to go to any details now, but I will answer to my best abilities if this rose any questions.

 

[emzjk]

Do you mind sharing what the inner Gods told you or how they guide you? That is if you feel comfortable and anonymous.

 

[ijustprotectedmyidentity]

if u want to face your subconscious and inner daemons and destroy your ego

streak in a big city (underwear only other then taht no clothes and pants)

 

[Da Blob]

There really is no such thing as the "unconscious" and the labeling of the Subconscious as being subordinate to the ego was an absolutely ridiculous moral judgement for an atheist like Freud to make... Every human hosts at a minimum four conscious entities, Reptilian, Mammalian, Primate and Human in different parts of the brain

It is just pure egotism at work to label any of them Sub-consciousnesses, they can each communicate with each other, but it is nonverbal communication....

BTW - the inner daemon is a fifth type of conscious entity that occasionally is hosted by humans...

 

[emzjk]

The inner daemons cannot be conscious because had they been so, they will overtake the ego and enact their nature, which will be completely negative and self destructive as well as destructive to the society around. In some cases that it does happen, serial killers for example, the irrational and absolutely evil nature of it becomes apparent. Also if its manifested in group situations, it acts like a mass psychosis for example the Nazi Germany and the genocide in Rwanda.

 

[Jennywocky]

I hate trying to discuss the unconscious because by its very definition we can't get our hands on it. It's all speculative in nature.

I definitely have seen why idea like the id/ego/superego structure system developed, although I think much of it is identifiable and not "unconscious." What is more unconscious is the ASSUMPTIONS that a person makes that throws this system off course.

The id can be overwhelming if one denies it exists and MAKES it unconscious. The superego can be overwhelming if one accepts the imposed social conscience as definitive without viewing it merely as one potential set of moral rules. The ego can see itself as voiceless if it doesn't realize it actually has power and responsibility to mediate between the id and superego in order to act with efficacy and health in the real world.

But it's not unconscious per se. Sometimes I wonder if the unconscious is more like subliminal advertising; people think it should impact things but it doesn't, not as much as people think. It's more that the avoidance or unrecognition of reality is what is causing the dilemma.

 

[Agent Intellect]

I think one of the problems with concepts like the "conscious" and "unconscious" and "subconscious" or even inner demons and the id/ego/superego is that they are just that: concepts. They don't really describe actual phenomena, but are ways of understanding observed phenomena. I think a lot of MBTI enthusiasts fall into this, too.

Consciousness is being conscious of something. When I do something, I'm conscious of my intentions and actions (and sometimes not even that - it doesn't take much conscious effort for me to put one foot in front of the other while walking), and that makes it a conscious choice. The unconscious is why I desire this instead of that. I don't know why I find the taste of coffee pleasant while others do not, or why I listen to hip-hop music while other people can't stand it. I'm not conscious of how someones subtle body language and the nuances of the words they use shapes my opinion of them, or how the temperature of the room or the stiffness of the chair I sit in generates my subjective view of the environment and frames the events that occur within it for me. I'm not completely aware of how much my upbringing or my genes have molded my worldview and subsequently the way I experience reality. Many decisions we make aren't even done on the "conscious" level.

I recommend the books "Blink" and "How We Decide" for further reading on this.

I think when it comes to confronting inner demons, it's more peeling back the veil of denial and seeing ourselves in all our ugliness then it is plumbing the depths of some incomprehensible subconscious, buried away in the conceptual fortress of our psyche. People go to great measures to uphold their own lies they tell themselves so that they can continue functioning the way they want to - the lies we tell ourselves are our attempt to construct the world the way we want it.

That's not to say that these lies happen unconsciously, but that we consciously choose not to think about them - see bad faith.

 

[emzjk]

The proof of the unconscious and its existence is the dreams.

When we sleep, the conscious mind, and ego's will power is turned off. And yet we dream, some of those dream if paid close attention to are as if they were conveyed by a superior intelligence.

According to Jung all religions have their roots firmly in dreams, not to mention all mythologies and even some of the scientific discoveries... I find the Jungian definition of the unconscious more believable, since its composed of the personal unconscious and collective unconscious... Its the collective unconscious where the so called daemons are and they emerge every now and then to wreak havoc.

Freud is mostly associated with the concept of the unconscious, but long before him, in mythology and later in alchemy the unconscious was an integral part, although often called, "the under world", "the dark side", "the realm of the death" etc...

Also the unconscious is an integral part of Nietzsche's philosophy, especially Thus Spoke Zarathustra.

And the simple reason why the existence of the unconscious cannot be ruled out through logic is the very fact that nothing can exist unless it has its opposing factor. Light and darkness, conscious and unconscious, good and evil.

 

[Anthile]

There really is no such thing as the "unconscious" and the labeling of the Subconscious as being subordinate to the ego was an absolutely ridiculous moral judgement for an atheist like Freud to make... Every human hosts at a minimum four conscious entities, Reptilian, Mammalian, Primate and Human in different parts of the brain

It is just pure egotism at work to label any of them Sub-consciousnesses, they can each communicate with each other, but it is nonverbal communication....

BTW - the inner daemon is a fifth type of conscious entity that occasionally is hosted by humans...

Your arguments sure are impressive...

 

[Vrecknidj]

Yeah. I've stared down into the abyss. It's almost killed me. More than once. I don't recommend it.

Dave