Communication?

[Agent Intellect]

was lurking around INTP central and stumbled on a thread about people saying strange things in social situations, and it got me thinking about my own communication skills, and i wondered if it was an INTP kind of thing.

i often times have a difficult time really saying what i mean, in the sense that i know what i mean in my own head but i just can't get it out coherently. a good portion of my thought power go's into trying to make my thoughts more coherent. its like i know what i want to say, but i just can't find the words to say it, and it often times turns into misunderstandings or me taking a lot of time rambling on trying to explain what i mean.

the same often go's with my humor, where i'll often make a joke about something someone said or something going on and i'll think it'll be hilarious, but people don't get it and i have to explain it lol.

this true for anyone else? (sorry about all the new posts today, just been doing a lot of extra thinking with the whole being sober thing and the board seems to have slowed down a bit).

 

[Artifice Orisit]

Yeah same stuff happens to me, though I also make various comments without thinking that cracks people up. The only problem is that I wasn't trying to be funny, it just happened to be what I was thinking.

On a slightly different topic does anyone else talk really fast then miss a beat and start talking gibberish. So many times I've gotten a wire crossed and continued
speaking in complete nonsense as though it makes perfect sense. My mental voice has no respect what-so-ever for the limits of verbal communication.

 

[Ermine]

One of the bigger problems I have with communication that I have is that I intentionally use "big words" for their different nuances and connotations in order to best communicate what I want to say.

However, people usually internally translate what I say into lay man's terms, and are lost on the nuances, and understand what I say in a totally different way, and I have to repeat myself, emphasizing that the nuances actually were important. No one seems to care about that.

That and for whatever reason, I have to deliberately form every syllable when speaking, because my mind often gets way ahead of my mouth, and I start rambling, pausing, awkward moments, etc.

 

[Wisp]

I do that too... I really don't think english teachers emphasize the combined powers of denotation and connotation enough. They just sorta say "it exists" and "know it" and then people forget about it. There is a REASON I have a large vocabulary.

 

[SafetyInNumbers]

All the time, misunderstandings galore. My partner must be demented, she is however an INFP so our house is a pigsty, we don't care and the rest of society is strange.

 

[Kuu]

One of the bigger problems I have with communication that I have is that I intentionally use "big words" for their different nuances and connotations in order to best communicate what I want to say.

However, people usually internally translate what I say into lay man's terms, and are lost on the nuances, and understand what I say in a totally different way, and I have to repeat myself, emphasizing that the nuances actually were important. No one seems to care about that.

Yes!! And I hate repeating myself. And then having arguments over semantics (on which I am usually right, since they are of limited vocabulary)

That's another reason not to speak with people. It's like, if I have to stop to painstakingly explain every concept, then when will we get to an actual, interesting conversation? And then it's worse when they are unable to understand what you are explaining......

PS:
In fact, the worst case of others missing the nuances has been in my relationships. I'm just too indirect, always too subtle... They say that they don't like mushy stuff, but if you don't say it then they think you are an emotionless robot and take it out on you, which is very frustrating since you are always giving out subtle signs of appreciation that never get recognized..... whatever.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

If i am intimidated by someone i am talking to i will probably start trying to be funny or i will seem rather giddy, this is mostly me trying to get the persons approval through laughter..the rest is me being a weirdo and not being able to control myself when i feel like i have to prove myself. People im comfortable with get to see the wide range of phases i can go through in a day, one minuite i could be rather talkative and goofy, other times you couldnt get a word out of me.

Everyone else doesnt get to enjoy me, when im aproached by "outsiders" (lol..) its fast and to the point most of the time, unless they come to me with something of interest.

 

[eudemonia]

One of my funniest faux pas was at a dinner party. This guy had just divorced his wife and was moaning that he had been told that he had to pay a large amount of money to maintain his wife and kids. As a result, he didn't have any money left over to spend. He was ranting and raving about how unfair all this was and how his wife should be entitled to more benefits as he didn't see why he should support two families (he had moved in with another woman and her kids). Looking at the whole situation logically I challenged him: "why should I (via the government) pay for maintaining your family? You had your children, it's your responsibility to maintain them - not mine nor the rest of society. You can't just go round having children and then expecting society to support them. Just imagine if everyone did this?" He flipped!!!! This was all at a friend's dinner party - they were furious with me as I should just have sympathised with him, apparently! I have found that in general at dinner parties, men come out with their opinions and women are expected to agree with them. One man was furious that I had the audacity to disagree with him - as he had never been challenged by a woman before. We never spoke again.
Oh well, all part of life's rich tapestry I suppose. I don't tend to go to dinner parties any more - they remind me of the Bunuel film - 'The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie'. A fantastic film and required viewing for everyone who wants to understand middle class European manners and mores.

 

[NoID10ts]

One of my funniest faux pas was at a dinner party. This guy had just divorced his wife and was moaning that he had been told that he had to pay a large amount of money to maintain his wife and kids. As a result, he didn't have any money left over to spend. He was ranting and raving about how unfair all this was and how his wife should be entitled to more benefits as he didn't see why he should support two families (he had moved in with another woman and her kids). Looking at the whole situation logically I challenged him: "why should I (via the government) pay for maintaining your family? You had your children, it's your responsibility to maintain them - not mine nor the rest of society. You can't just go round having children and then expecting society to support them. Just imagine if everyone did this?" He flipped!!!! This was all at a friend's dinner party - they were furious with me as I should just have sympathised with him, apparently! I have found that in general at dinner parties, men come out with their opinions and women are expected to agree with them. One man was furious that I had the audacity to disagree with him - as he had never been challenged by a woman before. We never spoke again.
Oh well, all part of life's rich tapestry I suppose. I don't tend to go to dinner parties any more - they remind me of the Bunuel film - 'The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie'. A fantastic film and required viewing for everyone who wants to understand middle class European manners and mores.

You're my hero! I would think the same thing, but I would never actually say it. That took guts! Dinner parties suck anyway.

 

[IfloatTHRUlife]

So true... I would have done the same thing, but i would have probably done it for fun instead of practical reasons, or i might have done it just to put in my 2 cents... either way lol

@NoID10ts- dinner parties do suck, glad i dont have any friends who throw dinner parties to invite me to..

 

[eudemonia]

@ I floatTHRUlife - I have friends but they don't invite me to dinner parties

@NoID10ts - hero..hmm? Perhaps if I had done it through courage, but I did it entirely through innocence.

I wonder what a virtual INTP dinner party would look like? We could all invite each other then.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i don't have enough friends to get invited to dinner parties. pretty much family things only, and i don't go to half of those either.

 

[SafetyInNumbers]

I hate social doos, I always moan when I have to attend them, usually though once I'm there I enjoy it. If I drink then I usually let all my wierdness out and it entertains people no end, I had a group of six well to do people areound me at the last party as I explained the difficulties of loading and unloading a van if it were to be done following strict health and safety legislation. Wonder what they thought I was on about?

 

[eudemonia]

SafetyInNumbers I love that! I just love to shock people. My fave party trick is when people are talking about politics (all assuming everyone is Conservative) to say, well I was brought up a communist because my father was a trade unionist and a Marxist Leninist. I just love watching them all squirm with embarrassment. Its really mischievous but good fun. Did I say that I don't get invited to dinner parties any more???

 

[Dissident]

Did I say that I don't get invited to dinner parties any more???

You didnt have to

 

[Ermine]

One of my funniest faux pas was at a dinner party. This guy had just divorced his wife and was moaning that he had been told that he had to pay a large amount of money to maintain his wife and kids. As a result, he didn't have any money left over to spend. He was ranting and raving about how unfair all this was and how his wife should be entitled to more benefits as he didn't see why he should support two families (he had moved in with another woman and her kids). Looking at the whole situation logically I challenged him: "why should I (via the government) pay for maintaining your family? You had your children, it's your responsibility to maintain them - not mine nor the rest of society. You can't just go round having children and then expecting society to support them. Just imagine if everyone did this?" He flipped!!!! This was all at a friend's dinner party - they were furious with me as I should just have sympathised with him, apparently! I have found that in general at dinner parties, men come out with their opinions and women are expected to agree with them. One man was furious that I had the audacity to disagree with him - as he had never been challenged by a woman before. We never spoke again.
Oh well, all part of life's rich tapestry I suppose. I don't tend to go to dinner parties any more - they remind me of the Bunuel film - 'The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie'. A fantastic film and required viewing for everyone who wants to understand middle class European manners and mores.

Wow, I wish I had the guts to do that. I get weird looks and rejection whenever I start saying anything mildly original and brutally honest at dinner parties. Very dull get togethers...

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I wonder what a virtual INTP dinner party would look like? We could all invite each other then.

Nice idea for the fun section, online forums are like masquerade parties after all.

Oh and nice going there, cheers to Eudemonia! "Raises imaginary glass"

Back to the topic of communication; wouldn't the world be better if INTPs were telepathic. We could express our thoughts in a way more civilised than vibrating the air at each other. Although I could imagine INTPs expressing the full measure of their thought without control could be problematic.
Anyone seen The Children of the Corn? Oh the fun we would have.

 

[Jesin]

We could express our thoughts in a way more civilised than vibrating the air at each other.

Ever read the Foundation series?

 

[Aphasia]

@Cog & Jesin: No, no idea what things the two of you are talking about. :1

@nia: If all of us invite each other, who's going to prepare the canapes?

Basically, I have the same problems as everyone else in communicating here, so telepathy would be nice, but then I don't think usually in coherent sentences, so then again, maybe not.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i don't think telepathy would really require coherent sentences. it would be more like sharing a concept with someone so that they suddenly have the same understanding of it that you do. i know i'd love to be able to make people understand my logic, and i'd love to know why other people think the way they do.

 

[eudemonia]

Wow, I wish I had the guts to do that. I get weird looks and rejection whenever I start saying anything mildly original and brutally honest at dinner parties. Very dull get togethers...

The good thing about rejection is that it filters out time wasters and filters in people who will probably be your friends for the rest of your life. I've got a handful of the latter and they totally accept me for who I am. It's great, I can just relax in their company and say whatever I want. If people reject you for not fitting in - that's their loss. You probably wouldn't want to hang around with them for long anyway. As you get older there's less and less time to devote to friends as kids take over so its nice to have just a few to devote quality time to.

 

[eudemonia]

@nia: If all of us invite each other, who's going to prepare the canapes?

I'm sure we could all rustle up a few devils on horseback and some feel low parcels or is it filo? Sorry, I'm trying to work on my humour deficiency

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I wish to invite all interested persons to a "Virtual Dinner Party" in the "Fun" section.

 

[Ermine]

The good thing about rejection is that it filters out time wasters and filters in people who will probably be your friends for the rest of your life. I've got a handful of the latter and they totally accept me for who I am. It's great, I can just relax in their company and say whatever I want. If people reject you for not fitting in - that's their loss. You probably wouldn't want to hang around with them for long anyway. As you get older there's less and less time to devote to friends as kids take over so its nice to have just a few to devote quality time to.

Thing is that people would find me a lot more interesting if they actually listened. Even if people aren't worth it, being interesting has its uses.

 

[SafetyInNumbers]

eudemonia, I apraise your shock tactics, there is nothing better in this politically correct enviroment to bring out an oppinion which although is in no way wrong, will force other people to try to be polite and sypathetic of your views. Its great that they squirmed in the face of a communist, see they don't know how to deal with it these days, too many court cases for speaking ones mind and insulting others.
I am warming to your idea of challenging too regardless of how it alienates me. Thanks for that.

 

[eudemonia]

good luck SafetyInNumbers. I think it helps if you have a sense of your own uniqueness. You are wonderful and unique in what you bring into the world but the world will try and crush it. Don't let them!!