College Bubble

[Analyzer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfJBgaIrxiQ

*College is a waste of time and money for most.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Interesting.

In my country day studies are funded by the Governemnt and for a long time, until 2010 you could study 2 courses (free) at a time if you managed your time well.

Obviously, they get it from the tax money, but(and) the cost is distributed on the entire society.

Other (paid) kinds of courses, while offering the same qualifications, have time schedules that allow you for a full-time work, for people that pay for their education.

It is true that it is relatively easy to create artificial jobs when the economy is pumped with central money.

It is also true that there is an illusion of job-granting papers.

I strongly agree that Internet offers a very high amount of quality resources for studying and expanding for individuals willing to pick up a new skillset for their work.

I think that protecting the free access and availibility of the resources on the internet, while decreasing/(not increasing) Intellectual Property Rights and the legal restriction to creativity and economic initiative, will create an option for many young and career-changing people to choose to remain competitive and valuable.

 

[Analyzer]

I strongly agree that Internet offers a very high amount of quality resources for studying and expanding for individuals willing to pick up a new skillset for their work.

I think that protecting the free access and availibility of the resources on the internet, while decreasing/(not increasing) Intellectual Property Rights and the legal restriction to creativity and economic initiative, will create an option for many young and career-changing people to choose to remain competitive and valuable.

Spot on. People who are not catching up to this will unfortunately be left behind financially and skills wise. It is very taboo to speak negatively about university here in the States, and it's pretty much the norm to continue schooling after high school(I did). I found it nothing different then K-12, just more of the same government indoctrination and teachers who have never held a real job trying to "teach" you.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

I see a problem with my peers and younger generations of people I know, that I don't seem to find it's source (with enough precision, many sources, social system norm). The problem is that many out of many, 50%+ from high school to academic students are unable to organise themselves around securing their work (money) first and then developing in security. Most are either stuck at securing their work and never develop their potentials, or were stuck for a long time unsuccessfully to develop and are being forced to get a job. Either of these scenarios creates a slave, a piece that is not likely to migrate any further and has its boundaries set and tested.

I think it is the problem with the way that public education is structured, but teaching everyone how to be goal oriented, at least for their survival, would benefit them the most.

I don't see how people currently working on their unqualified positions would use much more knowledge from their schools beyond numeracy, literacy and social skills.
It is saddening that so many possible paths are closed just because young people dismiss them or even fail to see the possibilities.

A documentary somewhat on topic:

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP61LwODTnY

A very strong and bitter phrase that the girls mother expressed was: "I won't tell her she is not the studying type"

One hope or belief is that everyone at their young age was a studying and expanding type.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Interesting video. One thing that bothered me though was that during the talk about the internet and open source education and how people currently have faith in slips of paper, they neglected to mention the lack of accreditation for online education and the nearly universal requirement of a degree for company positions which make such a path very impractical.

I strongly agree that Internet offers a very high amount of quality resources for studying and expanding for individuals willing to pick up a new skillset for their work.

I think that protecting the free access and availibility of the resources on the internet, while decreasing/(not increasing) Intellectual Property Rights and the legal restriction to creativity and economic initiative, will create an option for many young and career-changing people to choose to remain competitive and valuable.

^ Of course vocational/experienced-based positions are still available in which online and cost-effecient education would definitely be a benefit. The problem with that though is specialization, whereas most people are currently attending college to obtain degrees for a general higher education.

 

[pernoctator]

the lack of accreditation for online education and the nearly universal requirement of a degree for company positions

Both false.

 

[Polaris]

What the individual does with a degree is completely up to them, not the learning institution.

It is typical for people these days to put the blame for their unfulfilling lives on some external source. It's not the learning institution's fault that corporations and other employers don't offer enough jobs or even recognise the value of a degree . What is happening here in Australia is in fact a worry, as corporations and external institutions are now to a great extent dictating what and how things should be taught because the universities rely on their funding due to reduced government funding. So the universities are losing their independent status and becoming puppets to the private sectors. Say good-bye to independent thinking and degrees that don't yield instant profits, in other words: produce more drones. If anything, it's a concern that corporations and other similar employers do not recognise the incredibly hard work and well-earned skills of successful new graduates.

If you have the aptitude and self-discipline to complete a degree, that is a recognised trait in itself for many employers, in my experience.

Stop blaming the system, take the future in your own hands (addressed at no-one in particular).

Regardless of whether one chooses to do that with alternative sources or the traditional way, it is completely up to the aptitude and sheer grit of the individual. Success does not come cheaply or easily, and anyone who thinks that need to take a reality-check.

PS: I do sympathise with US citizens predicament for higher education. I have been privileged to receive free education for a first degree in my homeland. For my second degree, however, I have had to pay as Australia has a Student Higher Education Contribution Scheme, which has forced me to suport myself through a full-time job. This has definitely affected my overall academic performance.

This is also worth a read:

http://www2.honolulu.hawaii.edu/sites/www2.honolulu.hawaii.edu/files/2013-02-11%20ACCJC%20Action%20Ltr-Warning.pdf

http://www.apa.org/monitor/2012/06/online-education.aspx

 

[Amagi82]

Not the best-made video I've ever seen, but they're totally right. The current college system will collapse under its own weight- it's only a matter of time. With free online universities popping up all over the place, all it takes is some sort of certification/merit system that's recognized by companies to render the entire university system a complete and utter waste of time and money.

One thing that shocked me- they said in the video that the average student loan debt is only $32,000??? My college back in the (impoverished) state of Michigan 10 years ago was over $20k/year in-state. Most of the universities here in San Francisco are over $50,000 PER YEAR, and the majority of the people I know with student loans have over $90,000 outstanding. There's even a dental school around here that charges students $130,000 per year. It's insane.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Both false.

How so?

 

[pernoctator]

What the individual does with a degree is completely up to them

...

corporations and other employers don't offer enough jobs or even recognise the value of a degree

Contradiction?

 

[pernoctator]

How so?

Well, quite straightforwardly.

1. accreditation for online education exists
2. requirement of a degree for company positions is not nearly universal

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Well, quite straightforwardly.

1. accreditation for online education exists
2. requirement of a degree for company positions is not nearly universal

Of course it exists, it's just not widespread; only a few online institutions are available. An individual doesn't have the freedom to pursue their particular education from a range of institutions like they would from the physical colleges. edit: I realize that physical colleges effectively restrict individuals in a similar way through high tuition and selective screening.

By "company" I mean semi-skilled, managerial, and professional occupations, not minimum wage and basic sales/service jobs (the whole point of obtaining "higher" learning). Many of these can be had with special training and certifications, but at the same time many can't be without holding at least an Associate's degree.

 

[Polaris]

Contradiction?

It's still up to the individual to circumvent that hurdle. Problem is, people, particularly young graduates seem to aim to high initially; expecting a highly paid managerial job. In other words, it may also be that people are not getting the jobs because they set their expectations too highly. I have never been out of work.

 

[Pyropyro]

I got the skills and qualifications that I needed for my new job from my last job, not from my College degree. However, said degree helped me get to the door for this job. The Internet and the School of Hard Knocks provide a different route but it's also quite difficult, unromantic and need a high amount of hard work.

I think it's better for Universities to go back to what their ancestors practiced before: good old-fashioned research and innovation. Why become the state's money sink when you can earn for it instead? They're also in a better position to handle failed inventions compared to tech companies.

 

[Analyzer]

It's still up to the individual to circumvent that hurdle. Problem is, people, particularly young graduates seem to aim to high initially; expecting a highly paid managerial job. In other words, it may also be that people are not getting the jobs because they set their expectations too highly. I have never been out of work.

That's true, at the end of the day the individual should do own research and be aware of the market for work if that's what they are looking for. I don't know about in Australia, but here in the US we are fed propaganda in high school leading up to graduation about pursing these degrees and the earning potential associated with it. The whole education system needs to be revamped, luckily it looks like it's already happening with online sources and home schooling.

Amagi82 made an interesting statement about merit or accreditation. Once a solid online education reputation system is created, higher education will be totally decentralized. My best guess would be the current top schools will become research institutions instead of learning centers.

 

[Pyropyro]

It's still up to the individual to circumvent that hurdle. Problem is, people, particularly young graduates seem to aim to high initially; expecting a highly paid managerial job. In other words, it may also be that people are not getting the jobs because they set their expectations too highly. I have never been out of work.

If they really want a high-paying managerial job (or similarly level job) then they should graduate summa cum laude or magna cum laude and have good connections in their preferred industry. Otherwise, they should set their bar a bit on the level of their actual competence.

 

[Analyzer]

I think it's better for Universities to go back to what their ancestors practiced before: good old-fashioned research and innovation. Why become the state's money sink when you can earn for it instead? They're also in a better position to handle failed inventions compared to tech companies.

Precisely.

 

[pernoctator]

Of course it exists, it's just not widespread; only a few online institutions are available. An individual doesn't have the freedom to pursue their particular education from a range of institutions like they would from the physical colleges. edit: I realize that physical colleges effectively restrict individuals in a similar way through high tuition and selective screening.

By "company" I mean semi-skilled, managerial, and professional occupations, not minimum wage and basic sales/service jobs (the whole point of obtaining "higher" learning). Many of these can be had with special training and certifications, but at the same time many can't be without holding at least an Associate's degree.

I think it's fair to say there is a great difference between "many" and "nearly universal". Your wording was misleading, and I disagree with your assessment that taking an alternate route is impractical.

Don't treat the "requirements" listed in job ads as gospel. The reality is that employers already need to rely on alternative measures for choosing hires, because the market is so saturated with degree holders that they are a useless metric, and a college education often doesn't include the skills and knowledge they need. Will they sometimes still use the lack of a degree to filter you out? Possibly. Should you give up years of your time and drown yourself in debt for that added insurance? My answer is no, that's an impractical allocation of resources. You're investing heavily in a collapsing market.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfJBgaIrxiQ

*College is a waste of time and money for most.

Disagree.

 

[Analyzer]

Disagree.

explain

 

[Vrecknidj]

[BIMG]https://upworthy-production.s3.amazonaws.com/nugget/521cd34027e5da87fe000b8e/attachments/Larger_Image.png[/BIMG]

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I think it's fair to say there is a great difference between "many" and "nearly universal". Your wording was misleading, and I disagree with your assessment that taking an alternate route is impractical.

I'm not misleading, I consider semiskilled, managerial & professional jobs with degree requirements to be in more numbers than those without the requirement. Also I was unwittingly only referring to the U.S., and I recognize I am speaking based on my perceptions so I accept that I may be wrong about the situation.

Don't treat the "requirements" listed in job ads as gospel. The reality is that employers already need to rely on alternative measures for choosing hires, because the market is so saturated with degree holders that they are a useless metric, and a college education often doesn't include the skills and knowledge they need. Will they sometimes still use the lack of a degree to filter you out? Possibly.

What employers/hiring agents will actually settle for is different than the selection criteria they use to screen the multitudes of applications and resumes. They might be willing to forgo a degree in favor compelling experience, or might even just be dissuading the un-confident, it doesn't change the fact that degrees are still being used to filter candidates.

Should you give up years of your time and drown yourself in debt for that added insurance? My answer is no, that's an impractical allocation of resources. You're investing heavily in a collapsing market.

This is unrelated to the previous disagreements. You're basically repeating the premise of the video which it seems obvious I would have mentioned in my first post if I didn't agree. I never made the point people should go to college and risk wasting their time/money.

 

[pernoctator]

I'm not misleading, I consider semiskilled, managerial & professional jobs with degree requirements to be in more numbers than those without the requirement.

Again, "nearly universal" is a very strong term. You're implying that the chances of non-graduates gaining a professional career is nearly zero. This is propaganda, not reality.

I never made the point people should go to college and risk wasting their time/money.

Not in so many words, but you did say the alternative is "very impractical". If this is not what you meant, then I must admit I don't know what your point is.

 

[Variform]

It's still up to the individual to circumvent that hurdle. Problem is, people, particularly young graduates seem to aim to high initially; expecting a highly paid managerial job. In other words, it may also be that people are not getting the jobs because they set their expectations too highly. I have never been out of work.

Never use yourself to measure and judge.

I agree with your point about how business dictates courses. Here in .nl we pride ourselves that universities cooperate closely with business and think it is great you can go to uni and get training in an affiliated company. There is a change from knowledge as a fundament on which you can base a career to practical hands on experience you can only use in a specific business.

 

[Nojamnomusic]

What we've seen in the last couple of decades is degree inflation. Oversupply of graduates makes certain degrees from certain schools less valuable. In the US (and pretty much anywhere in the world) only the top university graduates still enjoy reasonably good job prospects - all others are in for an unpleasant surprise. Commercialisation of higher education is the single most important factor driving this degree inflation. For-profit schools only exist to turn a profit - they would openly misinform you in their prospectuses; and this is the trap many high school students fall into - lack of independent research and evaluation.

In short, it's either Ivy League (preferably with at least a partial scholarship) or go home.

 

[Nojamnomusic]

I think it's fair to say there is a great difference between "many" and "nearly universal". Your wording was misleading, and I disagree with your assessment that taking an alternate route is impractical.

Don't treat the "requirements" listed in job ads as gospel. The reality is that employers already need to rely on alternative measures for choosing hires, because the market is so saturated with degree holders that they are a useless metric, and a college education often doesn't include the skills and knowledge they need. Will they sometimes still use the lack of a degree to filter you out? Possibly. Should you give up years of your time and drown yourself in debt for that added insurance? My answer is no, that's an impractical allocation of resources. You're investing heavily in a collapsing market.

This is all true unless you go to a top university. In that case you have a very significant advantage in the job market - and it's not only the name on your degree.

 

[Architect]

BTW I've tracked the "College Bubble" meme from before it was one to now. Started about 10 years ago, when I noticed the Baby Boomers start to freak out about college. The best example was a guy who had a successful fishing business. Owned several boats, didn't do any fishing himself and was very well off. Enough so that he insisted his kid have a better life and sent him off to an expensive school, where he got some kind of basket weaving degree I think. I don't think he (the kid, or the father for that matter) was college material. Really stupid, the kid should inherit the Dad's business.

Anyhow then some articles started coming out about college, and now it's a popular meme. College has become big business, with rising prices, and I think absolutely people are paying too much and too many are going.

 

[pernoctator]

and it's not only the name on your degree.

What do you mean by this?