Circumcision

[~~~]

I think it is interesting that different cultures have a different approach to these matters for different genders.

 

[redbaron]

Chief complaints from group 3 about the foreskin etc.

So I can assume that the basis of this data is comparison, since obviously if people didn't have experience with people who both were and weren't circumsized they'd just consider an uncut penis as normal. Not to mention all evidence of this sort will be inherently culturally bias to a large degree.

In any case, the importance of these things is up to the individual to decide. I couldn't care less about any of the, "complaints" you bring up here. It's baffling to me that anyone could actually care enough about things like these that it would motivate them to be mutilated, but then again that's why I said the decision should rest with the individual. If someone really wants to be circumsized because they've got a hangup about the aesthetics of their phallus, more power to them.

I always laugh at the way the world works. Nobody is ever happy, everybody has a cause to fight for.

Intact males only want to see it disappear. Mutilated males only seem to want to have it back. Here, take mine.

Huh? As far as I can tell, there's both uncut and cut people who are perfectly happy with their willies.

Bullying is so diffuse that it's pointless to mitigate it in specified problem areas??? Bullshit.

Not what was said at all. The point is that if someone is being bullied, you don't mutilate the victim - you deal with the bully. I mean, you said that being circumsized is good because it deters bullies.

So I wonder then if a teenager is being bullied for having an uncut dick, should we just circumsize him? As far as I've noted in the typical trends of bullies - this probably won't stop the bullying. They're just as if not more likely to continue bullying him for getting his dick cut after they made fun of him, as they are to actually stop. Either that or they'll find something else to bully him for, because they now have concrete proof that what they say really does affect him.

All I can say is that it's completely backwards to imply that it's the victims of bullying who need to change their behaviour, as opposed to the actual bullies. Especially considering that the majority of things people are bullied over, are related to things that the victim has no direct control over. They're a different race, religion, have different musical tastes or simply look a certain way. It's a deliberate move by bullies too, that they target qualities in people that they know can't be defended.

 

[BigApplePi]

Does circumcision affect wet dreams and does it relate to pleasure during intercourse? What is the answer to that if you chew gum or not? My first reaction is "no difference."

Wet dreams have to do with sexual desire and backed up ejaculate or whatever. If you masturbate to empty seminal vesicles or whatever you call it, you are not going to have wet dreams. I had them because I did not masturbate. I recall when I first encountered a hot babe and we hadn't had sex yet I had two wet dreams on consecutive nights. Then no more.

As to pleasure or sexual sensitivity, tries this: uncircumcised penis is to circumcised as circumcised is to wearing a condom. What do you think the answer to that is? My answer is it matters at the start, but once you get started it matters a lot less. That is because sex has a lot more to do with the psyche than just the physical aspect. What say you? Males may differ here.

 

[Cherry Cola]

The downsides and ups seem to be various and trivial. Isn't it then kinda easy to conclude that circumcision should not be allowed since it isn't reversible and concerns the child's body? Seeing as the child is unable to protest or make the choice her/himself.

Besides the arguments for it are just excuses to continue on with a stupid pointless tradition because it feels right. That too is reason enough to ban it. Fuck pointless traditions.

 

[BigApplePi]

Fuck pointless traditions.

The problem with pointless traditions is they hold peoples together and that point is invisible to individuals. If man were not a social animal we might as well all be alligators, but then we wouldn't care so much about our fellow alligators. Now that we care, we self-consciously want to look back and change things.

 

[Cherry Cola]

No those are meaningful traditions. Circumcision is not one of them, its just clustered with others that are. Ban it and no one will miss it after some initial protests.

 

[Pyropyro]

No those are meaningful traditions. Circumcision is not one of them, its just clustered with others that are. Ban it and no one will miss it after some initial protests.

Outright banning won't solve things quickly. We need an acceptable substitute to the question "What badass/productive thing should I do to prove my manhood?". I really had no idea how the answer became circumcision but it is indeed safer than say, kill this deadly beast.

If we can find a good answer for that then circumcision will fall into the realm of the medical necessity or voluntary practice. For now, it has to stay.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Nah it won't work you can't just ban stuff like that, but in an ideal world it should be banned fosho.

I believe in showing Americans that they are not really that rational a country and in fact quite superstitious and religious about a lot of things. This should be done by comparison with other countries from Europe which are more rational and less stupid so as to make Americans realize their folly, as well as comparison with Arabian and Asian countries which the US hate highlighting every similarity existing.

Thereafter, it will no longer seem like such a good idea to cut baby dicks and no one will ever be a creationist again.

 

[BigApplePi]

Candidate for a new tradition? Don't know but I have a male cat. I just took a look. I'm not a vet so I can't tell. Looks like he hasn't been circumcised. But his testicle sacks are empty. Is that a candidate for humans??? Say after age 30? If you haven't reached age 30 yet, you are not in a position to judge. Let's keep this objective.

 

[Pyropyro]

Candidate for a new tradition? Don't know but I have a male cat. I just took a look. I'm not a vet so I can't tell. Looks like he hasn't been circumcised. But his testicle sacks are empty. Is that a candidate for humans??? Say after age 30? If you haven't reached age 30 yet, you are not in a position to judge. Let's keep this objective.

I can't follow your cat example but I really don't think an age requirement won't help society at all. Young people ought to have the ability to call the old ones out. I think you ought to live in a society where age and rank is given too much credit (like ours) to see the disadvantages in that system.

Basically, old guys decide what to do while ignoring young guy's input. Old guys use strategy that preserves their rank rather than actually addressing problem at hand. Old guy's strategy fails. Old guys blame young guys. Young guys take the blame and is instructed to patient and not question the old guys. Young guy becomes older and victimize rather than empower younger generation. World advances while society gets more insecure and maladjusted. Honestly, you got to call out the old guys sometimes even at the risk of your career.

 

[BigApplePi]

I can't follow your cat

I don't recommend it. He is two years old and very fast ... especially after just taking a dump.

Basically, old guys decide what to do while ignoring young guy's input.

I recommend old guys taking recommendations from young guys as if it weren't for young guys old guys wouldn't be old guys in the first place.

Old guys use strategy that preserves their rank rather than actually addressing problem at hand.

Old guys do rank higher in age and they should be given survival credit. Other than that, young guys should be given credit for being newer than old guys.

Old guy's strategy fails. Old guys blame young guys. Young guys take the blame and is instructed to patient and not question the old guys.

Yeah old guys. It's young guys fault for you being old guys. Young guys should slow down and be more patient. What do you want to know from old guys that you should question them anyway?

Young guy becomes older and victimize rather than empower younger generation.

If only young guys would get older more gradually and old guys would get old more slowly there would be no generation gap.

World advances while society gets more insecure and maladjusted. Honestly, you got to call out the old guys sometimes even at the risk of your career.

Hey old guys. Wasamatta wid you? You are slowing down advancement and messing up careers. It's about time you wound up your career to make room for advancement in careers.

More seriously young guys are daring, take chances and thereby bringing in new fresh ideas; old guys just point out where mistakes can be made by taking those chances. As an example, circumcision was once a wild new idea. Go ahead and do it if you must but I'm warning you. It could be a mistake and you could be sorry.

 

[Pyropyro]

I don't recommend it. He is two years old and very fast ... especially after just taking a dump.

I'll keep that in mind thanks

If only young guys would get older more gradually and old guys would get old more slowly there would be no generation gap.

In an ideal world the young and the old should work together through guidance and mutual respect. But sadly RL sucks

Hey old guys. Wasamatta wid you? You are slowing down advancement and messing up careers. It's about time you wound up your career to make room for advancement in careers.

You seriously got to work at the academe. There are awesome old guys and gals that still generate great research and inventions then there's that crazy dude that is still there because of tenure and stuff.

More seriously young guys are daring, take chances and thereby bringing in new fresh ideas; old guys just point out where mistakes can be made by taking those chances.

I know, and I appreciate that. I've been saved a lot of pain by listening to my mentors. But there are just some times that you have to let young ones get hurt and bleed to learn on their own once in a while.

 

[Base groove]

All I can say is that it's completely backwards to imply that it's the victims of bullying who need to change their behaviour, as opposed to the actual bullies. Especially considering that the majority of things people are bullied over, are related to things that the victim has no direct control over. They're a different race, religion, have different musical tastes or simply look a certain way. It's a deliberate move by bullies too, that they target qualities in people that they know can't be defended.

I didn't suggest circumcision was a solution to bullying I suggested bullying related to circumcision is commonplace. I'm identifying a major problem and merely suggesting it can and should be mitigated.

It's foolish to think that I have an immediate solution just because I've identified a problem. If you want a solution, however, I will provide it: routine administration of free circumcision worldwide to males upon reaching the age of 16 if they want one. The legal ramifications will work themselves out. By this time, you're ready for adult life; you will have made your choice regarding your penis and at this point the only thing left to do is get circumcised later, not at all, or have your foreskin reconstructed.

Do you deny bullying about circumcision is actually a problem? Then look again at Pyro's posts and see how the adults tease the children and encourage other children to tease children about something 'so trivial'.

I'm saying there are good reasons for circumcision to not be abolished completely. That is all. I'm sorry if you think I'm an advocate of infant circumcision because of this but I never stated that I was; I am arguing devil's advocate at best. These reasons are not trivial as some have stated. Somebody with body/gender dysmporhic disorder might fucking understand that.

Circumcision should be something people have direct control over. I believe this 100% so don't get to thinking that I don't. When I was five years old my mother explained to me what it was about and why she left me intact and then told me I could have the surgery if I wanted it. I immediately told her that I did want it and have not changed my mind in 20 years. By time I had the means or freedom to have this surgery I was fully grown and in a much riskier age-group as well as sexually active. So much for pro-choice.

 

[Architect]

In the newborn parents circle it's known as the "Circum-DECISION".

It tends to go along traditional-non traditional paths. Traditionalists (often SJ types) cut 'er off, whereas alternates (SP's and intuitives oftentimes) leave it alone.

 

[Jennywocky]

In the newborn parents circle it's known as the "Circum-DECISION".

What, and circum-ference is how big around it is, after?