Cigarettes

[Dimensional Transition]

Thoughts on hookah-smoking?

It really doesn't make me feel that good, it's just fun for the social aspect, stimulates talking, gets me lightheaded. Ever since I've read this thread I've felt a bit scared about getting addicted though...
Would occasional social hookah-smoking be dangerous? I haven't felt any urges to do it again, really. It just seems like a really good addition to any social setting.

 

[Awaken]

^^^I would stay away. Nicotine is addictive as hell.^^^

Patch-Worthless. Made cravings and jitteriness worse. Also messed with my GI tract.

Gum- Same as above.

Buproprion- Pretty effective for cravings. Also an antidepressant, so could kill two birds with one stone.

Varenicline(chantix)- Made craving and withdrawal nonexistent. The nausea associated with it in the morning was just unbearable though, results may vary. People complain about the side effect of vivid dreaming, but I loved it.

In the end, I too had to go cold turkey. Been about 2 months now. Good luck to you. I dont even know what try this is for me. At least 365 as Im sure I have "quit" every day for the past year once my pack ran out.....lol.


One thing to remember is to fill the void with something. You are so used to rewarding yourself with a cigarette, now you have to reward yourself with something else. Chewing gum(normal gum) has helped a little for me as it also allows me to ignore the withdrawal symptoms I feel in my mouth.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Is it really that sneaky?
I haven't noticed any urge to smoke hookah again, it doesn't make me feel super euphoric, so I don't see how it would be so addicting... Please explain how nicotine addiction works.

 

[Cogwulf]

There are two types of addiction, chemical and habitual. Cigarettes have both.

The chemical addiction to nicotine is because nicotine sets off chemicals in the brain, when you stop taking nicotine the brain notices and gets all uppity and causes withdrawal symptoms.

Habitual addiction is just missing the action and feel of smoking.


I disagree with nicotine replacements as aids to giving up, as long as you keep taking nicotine the chemical addiction never stops, and the habitual addiction takes months or years to go.
All that patches and gum do is prolong the problem

 

[Awaken]

Withdrawal is a bitch. It is uncomfortable and it takes control of your brain. You think twice about not smoking when you are irritable, your mouth is salivating a little, you are jittery, and you cannot concentrate.

In addition, the "solution" to end these symptoms is a habit you are used to. It is like solitary alone time where you can just relax, so you keep reinforcing your smoking habit.

Think of it like creating stress and stress relief with the same entity. It is a vicious cycle.

 

[boondockbabe]

hopefully I succeed this time. this is my fifth attempt.

[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

 

[a detached retina]

I failed. Trying again May 4th

 

[warryer]

I'm going on 1 year of freedom. I picked up running when I quit- gave me somewhere to de-stress myself.

I remember how much less toxic my body felt after a good two months in. People who have quit will know what I'm talking about. You will feel so much better after you go through craving hell. Do yourself a favor and quit now.

 

[Lobstrich]

@ OP - I hope that you'll end up a non-smoker!

I'm always asking myself this question when I think of people who smoke "Why would you(anyone) even start in the first place?"

 

[kantor1003]

Dimensional: Smoking occasionally, as in a social setting or whatever else, is a really bad idea. Sure, there are some who manage to do it occasionally rather then everyday (for instance, only when they are drinking, in the weekends etc.), but it is rare. You probably think you are one of those, but I think pretty much everyone thought so at one point. Smoking really sucks. Sure, I really look forward to lighting one up after writing this post, but in reality it's a terrible drug. When you are a regular smoker you practically don't notice any effects from smoking at all. The most noticeable effects are the ones you get when you haven't smoked in a while and you get the cravings. So yeah, a drug that don't give you any cool effects, kills millions and is really expensive (at least in my country (15 dollars for a 20 pack)), what could be better?:P
Continue if you want. I found it kinda nice in the beginning too I still do I guess.

I'm always asking myself this question when I think of people who smoke "Why would you(anyone) even start in the first place?"

I don't find it too strange really, do you?

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Ah well... I'll just keep on the lookout for any urges to smoke, I guess.
I only smoke hookah maybe once every month or less.

Good luck to all you smokers trying to quit!

 

[Yet]

dammit

I had 3 ciggies today, and I was doing so well for a while.

Trying again straight away !

 

[Lobstrich]

I don't find it too strange really, do you?

Uh, well apparently I do think it's strange when I'm asking such a question, heh. I don't understand why people start smoking, it's not healthy and it costs money. What do you gain from it? "I just smoke because it's the mood" But is it as if you can't be a part of the conversation because you're not smoking?
I've never smoked a single cigarette in my entire life, and I do not plan to. Why? Because it's unhealthy and it costs money. That's reason enough for me.

 

[crippli]

I've never smoked a single cigarette in my entire life, and I do not plan to. Why? Because it's unhealthy and it costs money. That's reason enough for me.

You can grow it yourself, that eliminates the cost of money. And there are health benefits, so I know I want to keep the option open.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_benefits_of_smoking

Like what if you find out you are in risk of acquiring Parkinsons. Or become psychotic? nicotine appears to be an effective anti-psychotic.

Do you suspect Alzheimer's to be in the horizon? Smokers are less blessed with this nice decease.

Here are more possible benefits
http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...benefits_of_smoking_cigarettes_pg2.html?cat=5

 

[kantor1003]

But is it as if you can't be a part of the conversation because you're not smoking?

No, and if it is the case for some, it don't have anything to do with the reason why they picked it up as it is something that develops later.

Oh, and what do they say? "Curiosity killed the cat"?

 

[Ploss]

I've been smoking around a pack a day for five years and today I completed 2 weeks without nicotine. The first 3 days were the worst, now it's much easier. Good luck.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

You can grow it yourself, that eliminates the cost of money. And there are health benefits, so I know I want to keep the option open.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_benefits_of_smoking

Like what if you find out you are in risk of acquiring Parkinsons. Or become psychotic? nicotine appears to be an effective anti-psychotic.

Do you suspect Alzheimer's to be in the horizon? Smokers are less blessed with this nice decease.

Here are more possible benefits
http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...benefits_of_smoking_cigarettes_pg2.html?cat=5

Holy shit, I get why people mix tobacco and weed now. The tobacco acts as an anti-psychotic, so there's a smaller chance of freaking out... Does this seem plausible?

 

[Cogwulf]

Holy shit, I get why people mix tobacco and weed now. The tobacco acts as an anti-psychotic, so there's a smaller chance of freaking out... Does this seem plausible?

I've been told it's just to dilute it so it's not as strong.

Incidentally this is how the person who was telling me this got addicted to smoking in the first place.

 

[Lobstrich]

Oh, and what do they say? "Curiosity killed the cat"?

I don't really care what they say, I have a right to be in awe of why people would start smoking =)

EDIT: And to be honest. I don't think any INTP would agree with that saying. It's the dumbest ever. Curiosity is what makes us be on this forum, what makes us star threads and debate. What makes us want to learn.

 

[Lobstrich]

You can grow it yourself, that eliminates the cost of money. And there are health benefits, so I know I want to keep the option open.

Yeah probably not.. Tobacco plants can't grow in any garden. And it's not something you just pluck from the plant and them roll up in a smoke.. It's a huge process. Besides, getting all that is needed to grow yourself, not to mention spending all the time one would use on a job. Costs alot of money.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_benefits_of_smoking

Like what if you find out you are in risk of acquiring Parkinsons. Or become psychotic? nicotine appears to be an effective anti-psychotic.

Do you suspect Alzheimer's to be in the horizon? Smokers are less blessed with this nice decease.

Here are more possible benefits
http://www.associatedcontent.com/ar...benefits_of_smoking_cigarettes_pg2.html?cat=5

Sure, but if you are destined to have Parkinsons or Alzheimers then you're going to get it. And I think the bad things you get from smoking heavily outweighs the good things. I've certaintly never seen a pack of smokes saying "We cure Parkinsons" or "Cancer is a myth, we help you with so much more"

 

[Cogwulf]

Sure, but if you are destined to have Parkinsons or Alzheimers then you're going to get it.

Actually no.
We don't know what causes these diseases. All we have are genes that have been identified as giving an increased risk, and environmental factors that have been linked to the disease.

No one is destined to have either, it is a question of risk.

Smoking apparently does something to reduce this risk or at least delay onset. It either prevents the disease from starting, or treats the symptoms more effectively than any known drug.
I'm not going to start smoking so that I don't get alzheimers in 50 years, but I do hope that scientists isolate specific chemicals within tobacco smoke that are possible drugs.

 

[Lobstrich]

Actually no.
We don't know what causes these diseases. All we have are genes that have been identified as giving an increased risk, and environmental factors that have been linked to the disease.

No one is destined to have either, it is a question of risk.

Smoking apparently does something to reduce this risk or at least delay onset. It either prevents the disease from starting, or treats the symptoms more effectively than any known drug.
I'm not going to start smoking so that I don't get alzheimers in 50 years, but I do hope that scientists isolate specific chemicals within tobacco smoke that are possible drugs.

If we do not know what causes the diseases. How we know what stops them? Doesn't add up.

 

[Cogwulf]

If we do not know what causes the diseases. How we know what stops them? Doesn't add up.

Observation.

 

[Meer]

Tobacco plants can't grow in any garden. And it's not something you just pluck from the plant and them roll up in a smoke.. It's a huge process.

Tobacco is pretty easy to grow. I grew a few plants in Canada. Curing the tobacco is much more difficult, but all you need is some kind of enclosed area with the right humidity and temperature.

And I think the bad things you get from smoking heavily outweighs the good things.

If you start smoking when you're 50 years old or so, you'll probably die before the cancer gets you. A shortened life without Alzheimers is probably better than the alternative.

 

[Cogwulf]

Although I have found some other scientific papers investigating the claim which actually found that smoking can raise the risk of alzheimers

 

[Yet]

I don't really care what they say, I have a right to be in awe of why people would start smoking =)

EDIT: And to be honest. I don't think any INTP would agree with that saying. It's the dumbest ever. Curiosity is what makes us be on this forum, what makes us star threads and debate. What makes us want to learn.

don't speak for me
in the context Kantor used it, it makes sense to me.

 

[Dimensional Transition]

I've been told it's just to dilute it so it's not as strong.

Incidentally this is how the person who was telling me this got addicted to smoking in the first place.

Yeah, it's to use less amounts of weed in the first place, but might it also be for the anti-psychotic effect of the tobacco in the second place, subconsciously?

 

[BigApplePi]

Yep. It's so nice to know one won't get those diseases of old age because, "cough cough", as one dies early from all that smoking ... "cough."

I tell you what. I will let you know what I die of and post it here on this thread. Then you will know whether to smoke or not.

 

[Lobstrich]

don't speak for me
in the context Kantor used it, it makes sense to me.

I didn't speak for you. Hence the "I don't think" =)

EDIT: And the saying makes no sense to me in any context and certaintly not in this one. Unless it was a joke that curiosity (wanting to try smoking) kills you.

 

[Lobstrich]

Tobacco is pretty easy to grow. I grew a few plants in Canada. Curing the tobacco is much more difficult, but all you need is some kind of enclosed area with the right humidity and temperature.

Still more work than alot of people would invest. Still costs money for the plants, still costs money for the right tools. And I will still insist that you can't grow tobacco anywhere.

 

[Lobstrich]

Yep. It's so nice to know one won't get those diseases of old age because, "cough cough", as one dies early from all that smoking ... "cough."

I tell you what. I will let you know what I die of and post it here on this thread. Then you will know whether to smoke or not.

You might want to post that before you die. The other way around seems difficult.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Yep. It's so nice to know one won't get those diseases of old age because, "cough cough", as one dies early from all that smoking ... "cough."

I tell you what. I will let you know what I die of and post it here on this thread. Then you will know whether to smoke or not.

Hmm, there's a nugget of insight in that last bit.

That we can't be sure of a direct causation, but the tendency is there to the extent that we can make a conscious decision to take that risk?

 

[BigApplePi]

You might want to post that before you die. The other way around seems difficult.

Difficult but not insurmountable. Never heard of posthumous posting? If there's a will there's a way.

 

[BigApplePi]

Hmm, there's a nugget of insight in that last bit.

That we can't be sure of a direct causation, but the tendency is there to the extent that we can make a conscious decision to take that risk?

Risk? Being a guinea pig for science is worth dying for if one is sufficiently devoted. No risk there. Gives a reason to make smoking worth its while. If I can get enough of you to smoke and die early we can finally defeat Alzheimer's.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

Risk? Being a guinea pig for science is worth dying for if one is sufficiently devoted. No risk there. Gives a reason to make smoking worth its while. If I can get enough of you to smoke and die early we can finally defeat Alzheimer's.

Or maybe that was Alzheimer's' plan all along? To get us to smoke and die even earlier than without?

 

[Awaken]

Growing your own:

In new york it is like 12-15 dollars a pack. A mild smoking habit of one pack a day=30x12=360 dollars a month x 12 months=4320 dollars a year. If you are dedicated enough to grow your own I assume you would be AT LEAST 2-5 packs a day. That makes it a price range of 4320-21600 dollars a year. Still think it wouldnt be cost efficient to grow your own?


*Im sure it would be a little cheaper to buy a carton, but you get the point.

To Lobstrich:

A) Im pretty confident that you are predisposed to smoking if you had a parent that smoked around you(anecdotal, but backed by the fact that addiction runs in families.....and I dont see why second hand smoke wouldnt cause some type of predisposition/silent withdrawal)

B)Starting off as a "social smoker" especially when you mix nicotine with other drugs like alcohol or weed, which just reinforces the behavior

C)Many other reasons that I dont really feel like typing out this late. The gist is, shit/stress happens.



Nicotine as an antipsychotic/prophylactic Neuroprotection:

Not as farfetched as you would think. Look up Neuroleptic malignant syndrome, agranulocytosis, and tardive dyskinesia and see if you dont change your mind slightly. It is a fact that current psych drugs are not really all that safe.

Imagine in the future there is a way to routinely track Dopamine depletion in the substantia nigra in a patient(parkinsons) or to see amyloid deposition in someones brain(alzheimers). If we dont immediately start funding the shit out of nicotine research for medical use I will eat a shoe.


Do you know what we give KIDS with ADHD?

 

[a detached retina]

yes a psychiatrist I saw once told me that nicotine does all these really useful things mentioned above.

It's the delivery system that sucks.

 

[Lobstrich]

A) Im pretty confident that you are predisposed to smoking if you had a parent that smoked around you(anecdotal, but backed by the fact that addiction runs in families.....and I dont see why second hand smoke wouldnt cause some type of predisposition/silent withdrawal)

B)Starting off as a "social smoker" especially when you mix nicotine with other drugs like alcohol or weed, which just reinforces the behavior

"My parents did it" is such an easy excuse. My mother is a chain ass smoker (Ass is needed. She smokes.. Alot.) Not only that but her and her friends enjoy pot once in a while. Pot and not something else because they are from that generation. My stepfather (grew up with him, and not my 'real' father) is a heroin(amongst anything else he can get his hands on, literally. Anything.) And I have not touched a single drug in my entire life. I do not smoke, I do not drink and I do not use other heavier drugs. I have only tried different alchohols for the fun of it. Like "Rakia" when I was in Serbia.
So I tend to disregard the "my parents did it" argument.

You also mentioned "social smoking" what is that? You're suggesting that people start because "everyone else does it" because it's cool? I'd agree. It's my general theory myself. It seems the most plausible one. Especially when you take in consideration that alot of people start smoking when they are around 14-16 which is the "age of conformation" At least that is my impression when I'm looking back at how my peers acted, by doing what everyone else did. "Being cool"

 

[Lobstrich]

Difficult but not insurmountable. Never heard of posthumous posting? If there's a will there's a way.

No, I can't say I've heard of such postings! Are they difficult? Heh.

 

[Cogwulf]

You also mentioned "social smoking" what is that? You're suggesting that people start because "everyone else does it" because it's cool? I'd agree. It's my general theory myself. It seems the most plausible one. Especially when you take in consideration that alot of people start smoking when they are around 14-16 which is the "age of conformation" At least that is my impression when I'm looking back at how my peers acted, by doing what everyone else did. "Being cool"

I would argue that a lot of the social side to it is it being an "ice breaker".
It's not so much that people start smoking because their friends do, but people start smoking to get into new groups.

 

[Lobstrich]

I would argue that a lot of the social side to it is it being an "ice breaker".
It's not so much that people start smoking because their friends do, but people start smoking to get into new groups.

That's the thing that I disagree with. I mean I don't disgree with your theory, but with such behaviour. We shouldn't do something because others want us to. You should smoke because you love the smell and the taste (and whatever else you might enjoy about it) not because you want to get into a certain group.

 

[Yet]

Unless it was a joke that curiosity (wanting to try smoking) kills you.

that's how I interpreted Kantor
not the wanting (that's quite harmless) but the act + addiction

 

[PennyRoyalty]

I've tried quitting once, made it for about 8-10 days? I'm just not at a point where I want to give them up enough yet, it seems.

 

[kantor1003]

And to be honest. I don't think any INTP would agree with that saying. It's the dumbest ever. Curiosity is what makes us be on this forum, what makes us star threads and debate. What makes us want to learn.

You don't say. It is also what makes us want to try cigarettes, lsd, mdma, alcohol etc. I read you had consumed the latter once, don't you think curiosity played a big role in trying it out?

And the saying makes no sense to me in any context and certaintly not in this one. Unless it was a joke that curiosity (wanting to try smoking) kills you.

It isn't that difficult to see why it makes some sense in the context I used it.
1.I wanted to know what smoking was like (curiosity)
2. It developed into a habit
3.Smoking kills 5.4 million people every year.
Hence, curiosity killed the cat.

"My parents did it" is such an easy excuse

Children whose parents smoked are twice as likely to begin smoking between the age 13 and 21. My parents smoke and me and my two brothers smoke. I don't blame it on them, but I don't think it's a coincidence either. If the % of people smoking is around 30% (in norway), the chances should be pretty slim for all my brothers to smoke if it were not for other factors that increased the likelihood to pick up smoking.

You also mentioned "social smoking" what is that? You're suggesting that people start because "everyone else does it" because it's cool? I'd agree. It's my general theory myself. It seems the most plausible one. Especially when you take in consideration that alot of people start smoking when they are around 14-16 which is the "age of conformation" At least that is my impression when I'm looking back at how my peers acted, by doing what everyone else did. "Being cool"

I do agree that it's a contributing factor for many.
But again, I did it because I was curious. It wasn't to be cool, or to join a group. Most of the people that smoked in the school I went to was people I really, really disliked, so I remember hiding from everyone else, so that they wouldn't know. If they did, the group I was with would know as well, and I would be stigmatized because they really disliked the group of smokers as well.

 

[Lobstrich]

You don't say. It is also what makes us want to try cigarettes, lsd, mdma, alcohol etc. I read you had consumed the latter once, don't you think curiosity played a big role in trying it out?

Definately! But it was more because I wanted to be polite. I refused several times, But hospitality is a big deal in Serbia, at least in the area where I were. It's almost rude to refuse what is offered, funny as that may sound.
The concept of being a "non-drinker" is also a funny story. When I told it to people they thought I was joking, literally thought that I was making a joke.
And as non-INTP'ish as it sounds, I hold a great deal in being polite when it comes to cultural things like that. Just like I could never dream of entering a Japanese house without taking my shoes off (I think that's a given to anyone, since it's quite common to take off your shoes in the west as well) But I will put a great deal in putting the shoes the right way (there's a right way, yes)

Anyway, bottom line. Yes I was curious but I was mainly respecting their ways.

Oh, and I never doubted curiosity was what got most people to smoke. But you're curious, smoke once - Curiosity satisfied. I really doubt you become truly addicted after one single smoke, that you didn't even smoke properly because you were choking half to death. So there must be something else, since you decide to smoke once again, and again, and again (at that point, it's simply just addiction, but what about the two times after the first curiosity smoke?)