Chilean miners and psychology

[Melllvar]

Yeah, I couldn't think of a better thread title, so tough. But I have a specific question to ask people's opinions on...

I hadn't really been following the stuff with the Chilean miners that have been trapped a half-mile underground for what seems to be months now. However, this one article on how psychologists who are part of the rescue team are encouraging them to be treated raised some questions for me.

To briefly explain, they censor what sort of entertainment, news and items are given to the miners by the rescue team based on certain assumptions. Here's a piece of the article explaining what I mean, with emphasis on what bothers me:

The plan, according to the rescue effort's lead psychiatrist, Alberto Iturra Benavides, is to leave them with "no possible alternative but to survive" until drillers finish rescue holes, which the government estimates will be done by early November.
"Surviving means discipline, and keeping to a routine," Iturra said.
So when the miners do get moments to relax, they can watch television — 13 hours a day, mostly news programs and action movies or comedies, whatever is available that the support team decides won't be depressing. They've seen "Troy" and "The Curious Case of Benjamin Button" with Brad Pitt and Jim Carrey's "The Mask." But no intense dramas — "that would be mental cruelty," said Iturra.
The news the miners see — which in Chile includes frequent reports about the miners themselves — also is reviewed first by the team above, said Luis Felipe Mujica, the general manager of Micomo, the telecommunications subsidiary of Chile's state-owned mining company.
"Of course to do that you need to watch the news first and effectively limit access to certain types of information, or to put it vulgarly, censor it," said Mujica. "This is a rescue operation, not a reality show."
Though some miners have requested them, sending down personal music players with headphones and handheld video games have been ruled out, because those tend to isolate people from one another.
"With earphones, if they're listening to music and someone calls them, asking for help or to warn them about something, they're not available," Iturra said. "What they need is to be together."

Now, censoring depressing material isn't what bothers me, it's the assumptions about routines and togetherness being good for everybody. Isn't that something that would only apply to some individuals, maybe the majority, but other individuals might need the opposite? It seems like they're forcing a view of normalcy on a large group of people without regard for their psychological diversity. Isn't it likely that being forced into a specific routine, and being forced into "togetherness" without being allowed any options for "alone time" could cause psychological distress to some members of the group?

I thought INTPs or some of the psychology enthusiasts here might have an opinion on this, particularly since I imagine INTPs probably need more alone time and variation from routine than most people.

Any thoughts?

 

[snafupants]

assumption about miner (pun alert) news coverage: this was a political red herring and/or a way to rectify the world dismissing the earthquake; we still care.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

This is actually really cool to look at. These guys will probably be trapped down there for many months. They are probably extremely bored. If they watch tv, that is there link to the outside world, which is very important. The cool thing is that , like prisoners, they will probably develop their own mini society. They could create some kind of currnecy, and try to make life as easy as possible, and they will probably create drama just because thats what hapens. I dont know if there are women with them, but if not im sure some of them will become gay.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I thought INTPs or some of the psychology enthusiasts here might have an opinion on this, particularly since I imagine INTPs probably need more alone time and variation from routine than most people.

Well that's true for INTPs in normal situations. In a crisis, I think the rules change. Would you really want to be isolated from everyone else if you thought you were going to die? (actually an INTP would probably rationalize himself out of fear)

 

[snafupants]

thats old hat to posit/imply homosexuality is environmentally based. we can render fruit flies - unfortunate name - homosexual and bisexual with genetic modification and drugs; this is modulated through the pliably named genderblind gene and use of triggering pheromones. less than six posts in and theres talk about fruit flies...

 

[Ska]

I think you have a point, but I also think you're assuming too much that every day life is comparable to being trapped in a mine. It could be the case that those things are important when you are in that type of situation. Now I have no idea if that's true or not, but it's certainly possible.

However, this does remind me of something I've been thinking about lately. When they're studies done that show X works well for the majority of the people in that study, the results might not generalize well for people with minds that work differently. I remember sitting in psych class and hearing about what a "normal" response would be for the babies in the Strange Situation Experiment. What's the experiment finds as "normal" isn't going to apply to all of the babies equally. It doesn't make them wrong or unnatural (as they seem to classify them), just not as common.

So, yes, I certainly see what your saying and have been thinking about something very similar recently, but this might not be the best example for that as different psychological factors could be in play when you're trapped in a mine for months on end.

 

[Melllvar]

Good points, you guys are probably right about the survival situation stuff. Although I wonder how much the fear of imminent death really applies when they've been down there that long. I'd imagine they'd become somewhat comfortable with the situation once they'd recovered from the initial incident (it did say they nearly starved the first 17 days, but now they're getting enough food, water, etc.).

As for gay sex, it wouldn't really surprise me if a couple of them hooked up. It's like prison... you may not be gay, but stuck without any women around, some people will take what they can get (I don't think I'd be one of those people, that's what "self-pleasure" is for, but it obviously happens).

@DesertSmeagle - It would be funny if they had women with them and started breeding, slowly evolving into a race of humanoid cave creatures like in Gears of War or The Descent. Actually, that might not be that funny... especially when they come to reclaim the surface...

 

[Cognisant]

As for gay sex, it wouldn't really surprise me if a couple of them hooked up. It's like prison... you may not be gay, but stuck without any women around, some people will take what they can get (I don't think I'd be one of those people, that's what "self-pleasure" is for, but it obviously happens).

More likely imo they'll end up talking about their wives/girlfriends/etc, which will get competitive when the conversation rolls around to "what's the craziest sex you've had" or something like that... now I wouldn't expect them to show any interest in each other, but considering they're down there for several months with virtually no privacy (except between them and the outside world of course) well, what happens in the mine, stays in the mine (e.g. dirty storytelling, jack-off races, carving pornographic imagery into the walls, other stupid stuff like that).

less than six posts in and theres talk about fruit flies...

This is the internet.

 

[Anthile]

I think prison rape is more about asserting dominance about another person rather than just stilling sexual desires. Although that might play a rule too. I have never heard of people suddenly evolving homoerotic tendencies just because they're trapped in an emergency situation. It would be interesting to hear if that ever happened, though.

 

[Melllvar]

@Anthile: True. Although I did see a movie once, Poor Boy's Game, which picks up with the main character about to get out of prison. It shows him and his cell mate not only having sex, but having a strangely weird, loving sort of relationship together. Once he gets out of jail he goes back to being straight, girlfriend and all, and never tells anyone else about it (his friends even joke around about it, not realizing he actually did screw other guys in prison).

It is just a movie of course, and not a very good one (IMO). I just watched it cause I like boxing, and it was recommended by someone who apparently doesn't have very good taste (IMO, again). Edit: I should say, the racism themes were interesting, but overall it was waaaay too melodramatic for me, and as boxing movies go, Rocky and Million Dollar Baby are way better.

 

[wadlez]

Yes its very retarded, "What they need is to be together.", THERE STUCK DOWN A MINE TOGETHER! I think there going to see each other enough.
What happens when your in a really bad mood, your really getting sick of someone and you need to withdraw? You cant because some pseudo psychological PC douche wont let you.
Lets push a bullshit Extroverted ideal onto them and hope it it doesn't tip any of them over boiling point.

 

[Dansk]

I think if I were trapped down in a small section of a mine with 30 other guys for months without a break, the one thing I would want more than anything else is to be alone. Since that's not an option, a good second best would be some kind of music player so I can tune them out for a while. I'm amazed they prohibited that one.

Also, wadlez, your avatar is creeping me out.

 

[DesertSmeagle]

can someone link the intps on youtube thread for me? its not working. is it me or does it really not work. and my avatar isnt showing.

 

[wadlez]

Dansk your avatar has given me PTSD

 

[Trebuchet]

Now, censoring depressing material isn't what bothers me, it's the assumptions about routines and togetherness being good for everybody. Isn't that something that would only apply to some individuals, maybe the majority, but other individuals might need the opposite? It seems like they're forcing a view of normalcy on a large group of people without regard for their psychological diversity. Isn't it likely that being forced into a specific routine, and being forced into "togetherness" without being allowed any options for "alone time" could cause psychological distress to some members of the group?

I thought INTPs or some of the psychology enthusiasts here might have an opinion on this, particularly since I imagine INTPs probably need more alone time and variation from routine than most people.

Any thoughts?

First, there are only 33 of them, and mining isn't exactly an INTP occupation. It is repetitive, dangerous, and detailed, and I am thinking Sensors would survive a whole lot better at that job. It also requires working in claustrophobic environments in close contact with others, and lots of mutual trust. There may be an INTP down there, but I am guessing not.

Second, with only 33 people, the psychologists can consider them all as individuals. If one of them starts saying he needs some time alone, the psychologists may not do the right thing, but I expect they will react rather than ignore it. Eventually they will figure out something that works. This is not a case of someone setting a universal policy, but a singular rescue effort, and they will unavoidably get some things wrong. As long as they walk out alive, they can call it a success.

Third, they do need to remain focused on their own survival. It is more dangerous, not less, now that they have no access to medical care, and further problems are likely to be fatal. Assigning them to keep together, exercise, and whatever else they are doing gives them an active role in survival, rather than a passive one. Even if they start to find each other annoying, having a role to play sounds better to me than just waiting for rescue.

As for the censorship, frankly I know nothing of the psychology of the situation, and maybe it is necessary. When they get out, they can catch up on the news. It isn't like they are in a knowledge vacuum, just a gentler version of things.

 

[wadlez]

"them to keep together, exercise, and whatever else they are doing gives them an active role in survival, rather than a passive one. Even if they start to find each other annoying, having a role to play sounds better to me than just waiting for rescue."

You'd really want to be sure of this, as if your wrong you might be doing much more harm than good. Peoples attempt to regulate and control human systems typically end in disaster as humans reactions are often counter intuitive and unpredictable. Pushing an unrealistic ideal of this group all happily working together might be unnatural, impossible and very dangerous. Leaving people with a channel to withdraw is simply keeping things open to the natural flow down there. We as introverts can already see the problem thats going to occur when people are forced to socialize and not allowed time alone for introspection.

"As for the censorship, frankly I know nothing of the psychology of the situation, and maybe it is necessary. When they get out, they can catch up on the news. It isn't like they are in a knowledge vacuum, just a gentler version of things." You know nothing of the psychology of the situation, so from that basis it might not be a good idea to push censorship as you don't know what its going to do.

 

[Trebuchet]

You'd really want to be sure of this, as if your wrong you might be doing much more harm than good. Peoples attempt to regulate and control human systems typically end in disaster as humans reactions are often counter intuitive and unpredictable.

True. So? Like I said, the 33 people involved can be treated as individuals. I don't know any of the individuals, myself; do you?

You know nothing of the psychology of the situation, so from that basis it might not be a good idea to push censorship as you don't know what its going to do.

I'm not pushing censorship. How could I? I don't live in Chile, or have any authority in this situation. I was merely supposing that those in charge of the rescue actually care about and respect the 33 individuals trapped, and are doing their best for them, even if they make a mistake or two. Sometimes it is necessary to act, even if you don't know the right answer, or might be wrong, and that is the situation in that mine.

 

[Amerally]

Imagine, Chilean minors lifted up and greeted by mothers, wives, lovers.

And the difference is: everybody waers Plant of the Apes costume.