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Changing type

k9b4

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Which type you are is based on which two functions you use the most. For example, someone who uses Ne the most and Ti the second most would be ENTP.

Hypothetical situation:
I am an INTP. I use Ti the most and Ne the second most. I spend a lot of my free time researching interesting things on the internet. Suddenly I decide I'm sick of this lifestyle, so I sign up for a gym membership and get really involved in the fitness lifestyle. I have now stopped using Ne as much as I used to when I sat around and researched stuff on the internet, and started using Se and lot more because I've started playing a lot of sports and being really physically active. My most used function is still Ti, but my second most used function is now Se. I am now ISTP.

Right?
 

Cherry Cola

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No people don't change types. It is more likely that you got your type wrong in the first case. Either way the MBTI system does not allow for types to change.
 

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When you add an auxiliary function, typology becomes a lot more complicated and varied. Some people find they identify more with the tertiary than the auxiliary and that the auxiliary acts as the unconscious and repressed aspect to a conscious tertiary. Some people might find the auxiliary function to be their next strongest function, but from the people I've known closely that are like this, they seem to have poor self-awareness and are inclined to blame other people for their faults. I think it has something to do with poor differentiation due to introversion and extroversion being somewhat balanced; the reason being that they never put much focus into any kind of thought process to the point that they end up using all their four functions immaturely.
 

Pyropyro

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I think it's more about maturity rather than changing types. Perceiving types learn to follow goals and might exhibit J tendencies. Judging types learn that sometimes they don't get their way and express more relaxed P traits.

For your example, let's suppose that the first assessment as INTP was true.

Ne isn't confined in the Web, academic research or any field in that matter. Ne's about exploring possibilities, it's just that its user has switched from feeding off the Internet to the complex social interactions and physical aspects of the fitness lifestyle.

Si also benefits from the switch in lifestyle since it records how working out feels good and encourages the user to continue such practice.
 

Architect

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No people don't change types. It is more likely that you got your type wrong in the first case. Either way the MBTI system does not allow for types to change.

Correct, except I'd say that it's impossible for you to change your type, since it's mostly motivated from unconscious psychic forces in the cortex. You're probably an S type of some kind who identified as an INTP (it commonly happens), because you have intuition in the inferior. In my experience INTP's don't take up an interest in any physical activities until possibly late teens (due to wanting to get a girlfriend usually, or health reasons), and then only minimal solo activities like running or biking.
 

Base groove

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Correct, except I'd say that it's impossible for you to change your type, since it's mostly motivated from unconscious psychic forces in the cortex. You're probably an S type of some kind who identified as an INTP (it commonly happens), because you have intuition in the inferior. In my experience INTP's don't take up an interest in any physical activities until possibly late teens (due to wanting to get a girlfriend usually, or health reasons), and then only minimal solo activities like running or biking.

I disagree with the thought that he is probably an S type based on the op,

It is perfectly feasible to expect that an INTP might very suddenly and without warning become fed up with his lifestyle and effect a radical change. There is no evidence that it has been a permanent change and there is no evidence that he switches/uses more Se just because he is exercising.

Se spots opportunities for immediate action, yes, but Ne is always seeking potential......
 

Cherry Cola

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Correct, except I'd say that it's impossible for you to change your type, since it's mostly motivated from unconscious psychic forces in the cortex. You're probably an S type of some kind who identified as an INTP (it commonly happens), because you have intuition in the inferior. In my experience INTP's don't take up an interest in any physical activities until possibly late teens (due to wanting to get a girlfriend usually, or health reasons), and then only minimal solo activities like running or biking.

I don't think people change types either, especially after watching Dario Nardi, nonetheless it is possible to change behavior and lifestyle which people commonly mistake for changing type. Hence the fact that they've misunderstood what the MBTI system constitutes and overestimated its range, within its framework there can't be any switching of types period. When people think they are changing types they are changing other things which have nought to do with MBTI.
 

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Correct, except I'd say that it's impossible for you to change your type, since it's mostly motivated from unconscious psychic forces in the cortex. You're probably an S type of some kind who identified as an INTP (it commonly happens), because you have intuition in the inferior. In my experience INTP's don't take up an interest in any physical activities until possibly late teens (due to wanting to get a girlfriend usually, or health reasons), and then only minimal solo activities like running or biking.

Really ? If anything I would say it would be the other way around (and also unlikely to be an intuitive/sensing thing) . But it is much more expected of boys to be running around and doing sports when very young so it would make a lot more sense if people did sports when very young, and then stop doing sports as they grow older.
 

Turniphead

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Really ? If anything I would say it would be the other way around (and also unlikely to be an intuitive/sensing thing) . But it is much more expected of boys to be running around and doing sports when very young so it would make a lot more sense if people did sports when very young, and then stop doing sports as they grow older.

This was true for me. I did team sports from 8 - 15(aprox), and then solo(ish) sports from 15 - early 20s. Now most of the exercise I get is from riding my bike as transportation, as well as occasionally climbing on things(trees, rooftops).

In the town I grew up in "everyone" did team sports growing up. My parents encouraged it because it was part of their own culture/what they grew up with. I don't think I found it unenjoyable for the most part. I also wasn't bad at it, not amazing, but average.

I remember in 8th(I think) grade. I quit the school volleyball team. For me it was a huge ordeal. Mostly because the coach made me feel really guilty about it.
He asked me if it was because my grades were doing badly. They weren't. That would have been a culturally acceptable reason I guess.

The reason I quit was because I felt like I didn't have enough time for myself after school for whatever it was I was doing(reading, playing games, etc). It felt like that wasn't a good enough reason(culturally). I remember crying in the shower because I couldn't decide what to do. Say no to what was "expected" of me. Or take the time for myself that I wanted(but within the logic of cultural norms didn't "need").
The time for myself won.
 

Turniphead

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Hypothetical situation:
I am an INTP. I use Ti the most and Ne the second most. I spend a lot of my free time researching interesting things on the internet. Suddenly I decide I'm sick of this lifestyle, so I sign up for a gym membership and get really involved in the fitness lifestyle. I have now stopped using Ne as much as I used to when I sat around and researched stuff on the internet, and started using Se and lot more because I've started playing a lot of sports and being really physically active. My most used function is still Ti, but my second most used function is now Se. I am now ISTP.
Right?

Why wouldn't you be able to use a combo of Ne/Si for fitness activities? Example: how do you need Se for running? You can run with your eyes closed.
Si is more important in that context.

I think that's something that people often get confused about with MBTI. Functions can combine in different ways to get a similar result to another single function. Or at least something that looks like another function.

Ne + Si, could be used in situations Se is needed, just not as efficiently or as detail oriented.
Ti + Ne + Si = Te? a really slow Te...
Fe + Ti = backwards Fi.
Ni + Se = Ne?

A lot of functions used in combination would have to happen one after the other, rather than simultaneously. For example Ti and Fe are supposedly opposites and you would have to use one first and then the other. So when using functions you have, to replicate ones you don't, you would never be as efficient as someone who had easy access to that function.

Ha, it makes sense in my head anyway.
 

Architect

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Yes

If anything I would say it would be the other way around (and also unlikely to be an intuitive/sensing thing) .

No

But it is much more expected of boys to be running around and doing sports when very young so it would make a lot more sense if people did sports when very young, and then stop doing sports as they grow older.

What does expectations have to do with anything? In point of fact all the INTP's I've known personally (some six now make that seven), every one was apathetic in sports when younger and at most would get into them - slightly - when older. Then it's only been for health or independence reasons. This is fully supported by the theory.

Furthermore, having raised and been an older relative to many young children I can verify that type is indeed set at childhood, and there is a intuition (or rather sensation with intuition as the shadow or lacking negative) motivation for it.
 

The Introvert

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Because type determines interests :rolleyes:
 

Turniphead

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What does expectations have to do with anything?

A lot.

Clearly the way someone is raised has an effect on them. I don't want to go down the "nature vs nurture" debate road(my observations would say that both have influence)...


This is a quote in your signature:
Originally Posted by NinjaSurfer
I don't really care to act against my nature anymore.

Acting against nature. Why would someone act against their nature, besides feeling pressure from "expectations"?

I normally agree with your perspectives, but in this case you seem to have a deep bias that you are not willing to look at head on.
 

ElvenVeil

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What does expectations have to do with anything? In point of fact all the INTP's I've known personally (some six now make that seven), every one was apathetic in sports when younger and at most would get into them - slightly - when older. Then it's only been for health or independence reasons. This is fully supported by the theory.

Furthermore, having raised and been an older relative to many young children I can verify that type is indeed set at childhood, and there is a intuition (or rather sensation with intuition as the shadow or lacking negative) motivation for it.

Agreed that type is set from very early stages).

before continuing, are you one that equals specific actions with functions? E.G he likes to run to he must be a sensor.
That's at least the only way I can see how you can say that it is "fully supported" by the theory.

Children have more energy to spent than older people, and so many need to run around a lot and do many things. Expectations have a lot to do whether people do things or not. If you don't participate in sports when young then you are more likely to stand as an outsider than you are when older.

That you have met 6 or 7 people can hardly keep up with the fact that children do a lot more physical activity than grown ups. Even in a time like this where physical health is much in focus in society.

Whether there is a correlation between doing physical activities when young and being sensing I don't know. If there is it is probably small compared to other important aspects mentioned above
 

redbaron

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Oh is this the part of the thread where Architect tries to say that you can't be INTP if you enjoy sports again? :rolleyes:
 

The Introvert

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I normally agree with your perspectives, but in this case you seem to have a deep bias that you are not willing to look at head on.
You think?

I call it sensor bias. Archie here, for some reason or another, has a deep-seeded hatred of sensors.
 

Turniphead

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Haha, and I here I was trying to explain my perspective and give him the benefit of the doubt.

Should have just gone with the helpful sarcasm method. :rolleyes:;)
 

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Clearly the way someone is raised has an effect on them.

OK, but this meaning wasn't clear from the way you said it above, which I took in the general sense of "we think that boys like to run around ..."

Acting against nature. Why would someone act against their nature, besides feeling pressure from "expectations"?

We agree on that then.


Agreed that type is set from very early stages).

before continuing, are you one that equals specific actions with functions? E.G he likes to run to he must be a sensor.

No

I call it sensor bias.

You (and apparently others) misunderstand my thoughts on this topic, here and apparently before too. I make specific predictions based on general statistical events. This is no different than MBTI itself. PUM says "INTP's like logical thought", and I agree and say "INTP's like logical thought". Don't construe that to mean "Archie says that only INTP's engage in logical thought.

Taking this example, I've known many sensors - feeling sensors no less, who are excellent at it. One of my best friends is an SFP and he has a PhD and is a world expert in a rarified technical field. It's the power of his sensor detailed focus, he can do the Te/Ti as he needs to and has built a career on it. At that we both recognize that I can out think him and he consults with me on things all the time.

So I'd like to set the record straight here - I'll make declarative and specific statements on a type, which may sound like I have a bigoted and narrow minded position, whereas what I'm really doing is making a clear example to illustrate the majority of a particular type.

If it is easier on everybody I could litter my speech with liberal doses of usually, mostly, all else being equal, for the most part, within one sigma, but I get tired of typing those and it dilutes my prose. I hope that clears up this misunderstanding.
 

Latte

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Good clarification.

One could indeed argue that it is likely that INTPs on average would be less inclined to do sports, if at minimum only because they would be more inclined to focus on elsethings and keep the company of others who also like to focus on those elsethings.

When it comes to specific individuals, I'd throw these commonly accepted to be correlations out the window though. It is definitely too thin a thing to base any declaration of what someone probably is on.

If there were other reasons to base such a declaration on, they should preferably also be included so that people can derive benefit from the whole idea or perspective on how/why the person is likely _____.
 

Base groove

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So I'd like to set the record straight here - I'll make declarative and specific statements on a type, which may sound like I have a bigoted and narrow minded position, whereas what I'm really doing is making a clear example to illustrate the majority of a particular type.

Of course your personal experience with a peer group of six or seven INTPs along with your prominent status of this forum allow you to rationalize things this way.

You have ignored what other members have said about your sensor bias, as the closest you came to acknowledging it was with a single word reply "no". So with regards to objectivity, you have done nothing to address it whatsoever and as far as I'm concerned the accusation stands. What's more, is it (the bias PLUS your reaction to it) can be easily illustrated. I bet we could take a totally random sample of 50 of your posts and there will be at least 3-6 (about 10-15%) which suppourt this thesis.

I mean ... discredit things if you want, but you should know what that sort of thing does to your credibility...

Of course there is also the possibility that you have your own type wrong. But let me guess ... "no".?
 

Architect

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You have ignored what other members have said about your sensor bias

Apparently you didn't notice above that one of my best friends is an XSFP? The other one being an INTP. In the general friend category it's around 98% Sensor, with one ENTP (just got that one) and a very small handful of other intuitives. One would wonder why somebody with such hatred against Sensors would have so many as friends and close colleagues?

What you're picking up on is a dislike for specific Sensor behaviors, which in aggregate combine and strengthen to a stifling degree simply because S types are in the majority. For example, groupism. Sensors like groups, they naturally form them. Churches (always trying to get new members), political (same), family (big families tend to be S type), friend groups (you can't just have a guy friend, you have to be friends with their wife too), etc. By my nature I dislike groups and group activities, in fact I constitutionally can't join groups, but I'm constantly having to fend off people who are trying to rope me in on one.

What makes this especially difficult is that the S preference is naturally extroverted, as N is naturally introverted. This is why the INTP is probably the most introverted of the types. S naturally goes out however (even with Si dominants) because it focuses on the objective. What this means is that S types by their nature aren't content to leave well enough alone. A simple illustration is the difference between an intuitive parent who wants their child to grow up to be themselves (an NT or NF parent), versus a SJ or SP parent who usually want their child to grow up to be normal. That is, like them. Conformity - again the group focus.

So in general in the world we see how S types prosecute the lifestyle of Intuitives, more so than in reverse. PUM - Please Understand Me was written by an INTP and is probably more of a reflection of the Intuitives telling the Sensors to Please Let me Be! Now, do you see it in reverse? Yes we do, but mostly in the realm of ideas. I believe Intuitives are at the forefront of the 'new Atheism', for example, which strong religious sensors find horrific and terrifying. But again what is their answer? If they don't like what they're hearing, it's your problem to stop talking about those dangerous ideas.

The Sensor-Intuitive preference 'battle' goes on in many realms, I could talk for hours about it in the educational and political systems. But suffice to say that yes, I do extremely dislike how much energy I have to put into fending S preference types off, for example in their need for me to conform. I understand it, I know how important it is to them, and personally I just wish they could understand that I'm not being different by choice, but by nature.

As another discussion I could talk about the societal benefits of the S preference which I fully support, such as the roots of the last Iraqi war*, but this post is getting long in the tooth.

discredit things if you want, but you should know what that sort of thing does to your credibility...

That's a beautifully illogical statement I'm adding to my collection.

Of course there is also the possibility that you have your own type wrong. But let me guess ... "no".?

Get real.

Don't expect further posts from me on this topic, I've spent far too much unproductive time on it already.

* Personally motivated by the S preference in Bush and his cabinet. Gore - an NT - would not have been my choice at that particular time as he would probably would not have taken decisive action, though he would have executed the conflict better.
 

Base groove

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Apparently you didn't notice above that one of my best friends is an XSFP? The other one being an INTP. In the general friend category it's around 98% Sensor, with one ENTP (just got that one) and a very small handful of other intuitives. One would wonder why somebody with such hatred against Sensors would have so many as friends and close colleagues? Agreed, one just might wonder. I might speculate it has something to do with forming groups, which is typical human behaviour, thus necessarily sensor behaviour as well.

What you're picking up on is a dislike for specific Sensor behaviors, which in aggregate combine and strengthen to a stifling degree simply because S types are in the majority. For example, groupism. Sensors like groups, they naturally form them. Being humans and all... Churches (always trying to get new members), political (same), family (big families tend to be S type), friend groups (you can't just have a guy friend, you have to be friends with their wife too), etc. Disagree about the last one. By my nature I dislike groups and group activities, in fact I constitutionally can't join groups, but I'm constantly having to fend off people who are trying to rope me in on one. And I would call this introvertedness, rather than intuitiveness.

What makes this especially difficult is that the S preference is naturally extroverted, as N is naturally introverted. Sigh... wrong. This is why the INTP is probably the most introverted of the types. No it is not why... neither is this statement true. I personally know an ISFJ who is more introverted than anybody I have ever met. S naturally goes out nope however (even with Si dominants) because it focuses on the objective. Wrong again, Jung on Si: "beside the object sensed there stands a sensing subject"; Si is about subjective sensations because it can reason that they are the only sensations we really have access to/they are the most reliable, which is why they might be prone to ridicule or dismiss other peoples perceptions... particularly, "objective perceptions" in the form of Ne. What this means is that S types by their nature aren't content to leave well enough alone. I disagree completely, most SP types I know are perfectly content to say "good enough, move on" They want nothing more than to leave well enough alone. With Se, this means the object has entered consciousness and presents no further opportunity for action, with Ne it resembles possibilities for change rather than opportunities for action ... same idea though. I would just like to point out that you are sort of acting this way.... no wonder I question your type. Sorry, but I do.* I'm just one avatar in a sea. A simple illustration is the difference between an intuitive parent who wants their child to grow up to be themselves (an NT or NF parent), versus a SJ or SP parent who usually want their child to grow up to be normal. That is, like them. Conformity - again the group focus. Here you have effectively illustrated a similarity between the types...

So in general in the world we see how S types prosecute the lifestyle of Intuitives, more so than in reverse. PUM - Please Understand Me was written by an INTP and is probably more of a reflection of the Intuitives telling the Sensors to Please Let me Be! Now, do you see it in reverse? Yes we do, but mostly in the realm of ideas. I believe Intuitives are at the forefront of the 'new Atheism', for example, which strong religious sensors find horrific and terrifying. But again what is their answer? If they don't like what they're hearing, it's your problem to stop talking about those dangerous ideas. OK, another rational reason to have bias and prejudice ... rather than deny it.

The Sensor-Intuitive preference 'battle' goes on in many realms, I could talk for hours about it in the educational and political systems. But suffice to say that yes, I do extremely dislike how much energy I have to put into fending S preference types off, for example in their need for me to conform. I understand it, I know how important it is to them, and personally I just wish they could understand that I'm not being different by choice, but by nature.

As another discussion I could talk about the societal benefits of the S preference which I fully support, such as the roots of the last Iraqi war*, but this post is getting long in the tooth.

* Personally motivated by the S preference in Bush and his cabinet. Gore - an NT - would not have been my choice at that particular time as he would probably would not have taken decisive action, though he would have executed the conflict better.

Get real.

Don't expect further posts from me on this topic, I've spent far too much unproductive time on it already.

Haha 'get real'.

I'm sorry you are upset about this. Maybe you can get over it. (All of it, including the sensor bias... because you have made a few very contradictory statements here, let's call them "sweeping generalizations")

Particularly in your comparison of SJ/SP types... which Kiersey believed were inherently different groups. You're conveniently ignoring this distinction, as well as the NT/NF distinction.

Lastly your comments about intuitive types being naturally introverted ... or intuition being a naturally introverted function (whatever), are dubious, especially from an INTP...

*
You have mentioned that your children see you as a Type A..... that you are strict (but only because you have figured out the best way to live) ... man this just reeks of Si and Te. I don't see what's so damnned rational about not even entertaining it. You should have a read through Types, especially the part on the extraverted thinking type. The fact that you so readily dismissed earlier arguments I have made based on the fact that "I'm new here" also helps strengthen my point. The established order is supreme.Whatever. Sorry.
 

Base groove

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I just think that you're not going to convince me (therefore anybody*) just by saying 'no', 'no', 'no', and then finally, 'you don't know me!'

*because, subjective perceptions, that's why.

Here is NiTe working: you have misunderstood the true nature of the functions because you interpreted the MBTI one way and haven't acted to expand your worldview or neutralize your stereotypes, only to perpetuate and confirm. As a result of this, you have based every other component of your inner model of the MBTI (let's call it, a sensory/mechanical one - applies to INTP and ISTJ) on the primary assumption that you are INTP.

So really, if you are ISTJ, then your inner perceptions of Ti and Ne are misaligned to reality/ or at least, the initial meaning. This is going to lead to an entire explosion of typology errors, and if you combine the two together (stereotypes/bias, misinformation), it's going to make one hell of a mess. It's possible, for example, that >50% of the people you have typed as sensors are actually intuitive.
 

Cherry Cola

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He's not ignoring their distinction he's grouping them together because his argument does not require them to be separated. Furthermore he is right in that sensors are more inclined to participate in extroverted events and organizations, how could it not be the case when they focus on the object rather than the relationships between objects as do intuitives?

Now one could argue that ISTP's and ISFP's -especially the former- are in fact quite individualistic and that a significant percentage can happily live introverted secluded lives, but compared to their N counterparts they come out short in this respect. ISFP's will adhere to subcultures, to religious conventions, to movements and causes, they get out there and do it (Se aux). Likewise ISTPs are opt to be driven into environments where they must work with other people, and while being the most individualistic of S-types they still do not suffer as would an N type in a conventional environment, suffering only under the bias of extroversion but not under that of intuition; they are able to mold themselves so that they too become a cogwheel in the machinery that alienates the fledgling doings of the intuitives. With the ISFP this is all the more obvious.

On a larger scale the ENxJ's may play a bigger part than them, but owing to their own intuitive faculties they will recognize understand and even price intuitives in their direct environment.

Geez I'm like becoming Architects lapdog almost always agree with the guy, I wish he wasn't so quick to fend of criticism though. Don't think he's no TJ type, just think he's a working family man with a lot to do and hence little patience for discussion he finds superfluous.
 

Base groove

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Furthermore he is right in that sensors are more inclined to participate in extroverted events and organizations, how could it not be the case when they focus on the object rather than the relationships between objects as do intuitives?

And the ENFP...??


"how could it not be the case when they focus on the object rather than the relationships between objects..."

Okay, and while I'm on the ENF subject how about ENFJs too...?

I want to know why they are less prone to group activities because of their nature to focus on relationships.
 

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^ I think ENFPs get stereotyped a lot (to an almost fetishy degree). I doubt they are by necessity extroverted, some I've known (including some on this forum too, but I won't call out names) are among the most introverted people I've known.

I see functions as a cognitive tool-set, it's better to describe what they do and what they're inclined towards, especially when they're working well, as at the end of the day MBTI isn't a total description of a person -- there are other factors, people use tools differently and in ways filtered by their own history and experiences, etc.

To the OP: to echo a few here. If you really think about it, if MBTI allowed for people to change type it would be a basically useless system as it would be impossible to pin-point with any validity what type someone was at any moment; worse, couldn't you then be a hybrid of types simultaneously? Wouldn't work. If there is any validity to it, it will probably be neurologically proven, and changing type would be like changing brains...
 

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@BaseGroove:

ENFP's are prone to group activities but for them they are temporal, once their Ne cannot satisfy itself anymore they move on; furthermore, they too act differently than their S counterparts; Ne is open to new experiences, it does not supress or frame, it seeks the novel, thus they act as catalysts rather than conservators. Coupled with their Fi, they understand people and value their individual skills and will not supress that which appears idiosyncratic and alien to S types atracts them.

With the ENFJ the case is different, they to understand people but they do not value their individualism to the same degree as the ENFP, their understanding is broader but not as deep, they will use it to achieve rather than to understand, that is not to say that they do not understand for they do so instinctively their Fe being in dominant position it achieves understanding effortlessly allowing them to appear considering and giving them the ability to function well socially in most social contexts. When channeled consciously; however, Fe acts in tandem with Ni to implement. The ENFJ desires to shape their environment, they desire control in order to do this but are more subtle and gracious in how they achieve it. Spend enough time around an ENFJ and you'll notice this even if it takes a while until it becomes apparent. Personally I think they can be a bit suffocating, but my experience with ENFJs haven't been with healthy ones so I don't know. Anyway, despite this desire for control stemming from Fe+Ni, they too are more tolerant of dissidents, like INFJs but not to the same degree, they spot potential in people and want to help them grow as individuals so that they may serve to help their cause. Like Si, Ni stores information, only theirs has a visionary and ethereal character and so is naturally urged to be fulfilled by being turned concrete through Se. Si types on the other hand desire for their concrete data to be supported by an inner map which confirms and supports the arrangement of their concrete data, arranging it logically;, they are resistant to and slow to accept changes to these connections, similarly the Ni types are prone to using their Se in a categorical manner. Once their vision is clear enough to be implemented they propel it with force. Meanwhile, for the Si types their introverted sensing function is what which dictates their actions. They act consequently in accordance with its facts and dogmas, for them Si's counterpart in Ne does not usually dictate their actions. They do not make pushes. But they can if their Ne spots something causing a paradigmatic change of perception cause them to change the way the arrangment of their Si storage and so also their actions. Nevertheless they are not enthusiastic about new facts even when they do discover them. In fact their enthusiasm is to be seen when they are in grip experiences and out of control, normally they strive for contention instead.

So while the ENFJ can indeed be controlling and supressing like S types, the ENFJ needs to feed their Ni in between, they may be closeminded at times but know the value of holistic understanding that spanning across not only their own social context but in principle across all, they see through anthropological barriers, their Fe dominant being powerful enough to do so, their Ni aux being able to synthesize the inconsistent and paradoxical by recognizing common underlying principles. They may be pushy at first in a work environment just like their Si counterparts but eventually they will recognize how odd types such as INTPs are most efficiently used, an ENFJ encountering odd types will understand them more and more, learning to spot them and utilize them. Therefore the ENFJ type will gradually better their understanding while the ESFJ solidifies her/his is accordance with the prevailing local zeitgeist, completely lacking the ENFJs span and ceaseless craving for holistic implementation.

Now who's more suppresive out of ISxP's and ENxJ's? Probably, the latter will supress and control to a higher degree in general but they will not suffocate and require the same conformity from N types as they do from S types because they will recognize that the best way to utilize such individuals and get the most out of them is not by making them cogwheels in their machinery, rather they use them as engineers and architects knowing that they may provide invaluable insights at times even if they appear less useful than their S counterparts for the most part. The ISxP's on the other hand fit into this machinery, as demeaning as it is they are still cogwheels, supporting and powering the very machinery which typically supresses N types since S types are so much more common.

Oh yeah, I'd say the ENTJ is more controlling, they can probably understand other NT's pretty well, but lacking the natural insight into people which the ENFJ posesses they are probably at a higher risk of undervaluing NF's and will be slower to understand them.
 

Cherry Cola

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methinks u are pretty damn smart, also I'm goin to bed cuz shoulda done so an hour ago!
 
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