Can introverts have NPD? (Narcissistic Personality Disorder)

[SkyWalker]

There is a scale of narcissism in personality from lack of narcissism to healthy narcissism to extreme narcissism (NPD).

I know quite a few extreme NPD-ers and I have typed them all as ENTJ up to now. I think ENTJ is quite prone to narcissism.

Of course introverts can be narcissitic as well, but might introversion temper the extreme forms of narcissim a bit?
There are for example enough INTJs (& INTPs) that can be quite narcissistic as well, but are they really extreme NPD? Up to now, I think not, I think the introversion tempers it a bit, but I am not sure.

And if introversion tempers it, is it because of introverted feeling or because of introverted thinking? (because just calling it all general introversion is not very helpful)

What is your opinion?
Is (extreme) NPD an extraverted thing only?
Or can introverts acquire (extreme) NPD as well? (If so, do you have a good example?)

 

[preilemus]

From my uneducated point of view:


Self-absorbtion is a highly introverted focus. Turning inwards, focus upon self, etc.

If they seek their self-worth from others, perhaps by being unbelievably outgoing or impressive, it doesn't change the focus of anything.


I have to ask, what makes you so sure these people you see are extroverts?

 

[SkyWalker]

your understanding of introversion is probably wrong, i had the same problem for a long time, introversion is totally not about self-absorbtion or something like that. neither is extraversion about sociability (although extraverted feeling is a bit like that, but extraverted thinking certainly is not).

You should read chapter X of Jung's book Phycological Types:

introversion is (focused on the / grounded in the) subjective....e.g. WHY to act? (subjective intent driven)

extraversion is (focused on the / grounded in the) objective....e.g. HOW to act? (objective result driven)

---

a real thorough NPD-er seems rigourously objective and result driven to me

Malignant NPD-ers are fake (e.g. they have a false-self, an outer mask), which seems extravert to me: they simulate subjective thinking & subjective feeling to pretend that they are normal, but they dont really feel or think subjectively.

 

[Cavallier]

This thread is interesting. I suppose a person could posit that the natural introspectiveness (inner analysis processes) of an introvert (INTJ and INTP specifically) lessens the likelihood of extreme NPD

Malignant NPD-ers are fake (e.g. they have a false-self, an outer mask), which seems extravert to me: they simulate subjective thinking & subjective feeling to pretend that they are normal, but they dont really feel or think subjectively.

I thought ENTJs were more likely to not be fake or have a "false-self" or "outer mask" as they are known for speaking their minds and being intensely direct. Will you elaborate?

 

[GYX_Kid]

you hear about a laundry list of traits of narcissistic personality disorder. they range from a highly competitive manipulative nature, to wearing a false personality and seeking vengeance, to self-obsessed pride over achievements, to making dramatic scenes of everything, to different aspects of various common 'assholes' who like to project their insecurities and be abusive. are there certain behavioral criteria that someone must have to be diagnosed with NPD? or is it more to do with an extremely self-centered worldview, high sensitivity to perceived defeat, and inability to 'love' anyone? i think an INTP narcissist would likely behave very differently from an ENFJ one.

does a sociopath necessarily have the most malignant NPD, or is it more likely AsPD?

i read somewhere that the introverted narcissists (not the same as an inverted narcissist... hopefully ) end up depressed often as a result of having a hard time achieving narcissistic supply. they still have the same core i guess, but a different personality with which to wield it and deal with the world.

what about anyone who puts on a character that they display to different people? is it necessarily a false self, or can it be blurred with social awkwardness, etc? some info on false self: http://www.narcissismaddictionsabuse.com/Authentic-Versus-False-Self-of%20-Narcissist.html

maybe an introverted narcissist could have a higher likelihood of depression and brutal assault, while an extroverted one would more obviously display their manipulative tendencies that come more easily. it usually isn't so clearly black-and-white, though. there are easily butthurt emo kids, utter douchebag 'players', serial murderers, power-craving dictators, etc. i feel like the label narcissist would/could be thrown on all these, but that one diagnosis wouldn't be enough to really mean much by itself.

 

[SkyWalker]

Malignant/extreme NPD-ers are like covert-sadists:

- weaker feeling function: they secretly hate everyone, and wish to take them all down if they get the chance (they only use the hate/dislike side of the feeling function, they dont use the love/like side of the feeling function, simply because they dont like anyone).
- stronger thinking function: BUT they are more selfish-thinking and they know that if it would show that they actually hate everyone, they would be burned alive by society, so they hide it. (it is a pleasure for them to take you down, but it is a greater pleasure for them to do well themselves, they will never take themselves down in battle) and they probably hide the hate so well that they dont even know it themselves, and think that they are purely 'self-rational'

i think their (stronger) thinking function is extraverted: extraverted thinking is result driven, the best manipulators need to be result driven.

since introverted thinking is subjective intent driven (deep: why to act) and not result driven (superfiscial: how to act), i think it would not be good for manipulation, thus would temper narcissism

up to here i am quite sure actually that NPD works like this.

i am not sure about the introversion/extraversion of the(weaker) feeling function of the NPD-er though.

- the extraverted feeler would hate/dislike because that behavior reaches the objective it wants (superfiscial)
- the introverted feeler would hate/dislike because his subjective intent tells him that that behavior is right (deep)

As long as they hate (in a weak way, combined with stronger extraverted thinking to cover it), the result is probably the same: NPD

So the hate could either come from extraverted feeling or introverted feeling, as long as the results of that feeling function is to dislike everyone and dont like anyone

That is why I cant decide whether extraverted or introverted feeling would be more prone

But I am pretty sure that extraverted thinking correlates with NPD, and introverted thinking tempers it

 

[XXXX]

I would hypothesize that Ni-dom's (INFJ & INTJ) would be the most likely to be seen as extremely narcissistic (Kanye West and Jose Mourinho anyone?), with their worldview of how things should be that they believe is far superior to how things presently are being the most profound influence in their life.

 

[GYX_Kid]

^ @SkyWalker
so that's the true narcissist, extreme IRL troll out of pathological envy?

might borderline personality disorder be related in a basic way, though with an earlier halted emotional development (average of age 3 instead of 6, or something like that)?

 

[SkyWalker]

it's not about age, it's about friend/enemy calibration

i think borderline is like NPD, in the sense that they both use the hate/dislike side of the feeling function only (and ignore the love/like side of the feeling function), both have their friend/enemy calibration set on enemy all the time., that's why their feeling function only uses one side (hate)

but the difference is: borderliners have a stronger feeling function than thinking function.

in borderline the hate (feeling) is stronger than the self-interest (thinking), borderliners take themselves down in battle, NPD-ers do not

borderliners easily slay NPD-ers (it is a law of nature): NPD-ers chicken out and flee because of their own self-interest (e.g. they might get hurt), because they know the borderliner does not care about self-interest (e.g. the borderliner is not afraid to get hurt, it cares more about taking the other down, whatever happens to self, it will take itself down with the enemy if it has to)

(and btw if a NPD-er cannot be slayed by a borderliner, it is not NPD but psychopath/antisocial: psychopaths/antisocials are balanced in the middle of NPD and borderline with an equal thinking/feeling balance. having the best of both worlds, these cannot be slayed by borderliners. they slay NPD-ers like borderliners, but are unsensitive to borderliner kamikaze tactics themselves)

 

[GYX_Kid]

i like your theory, i might have a twisted fondness of borderliners in some cases now.

like how GG Allin has fans, i guess.

 

[SkyWalker]

haha borderliners might be good NPD slayers, but they are not all powerful at all

if you want to beat a borderliner, act OCD (obsessive-compulsive) and keep indefinitely repeating to them (in a well-meaning robotic way 'like mr spock or data of star trek' and without any grudge present): "you are irresponsible, can you please explain to me why you do that?". and keep those sentences pending and pounding them until infinity.

borderliners cannot beat that, they go crazy and increase their threats to the max, but simply are unable attack such robotic OCD people, kamikaze tactics are useless against OCD-ers

 

[GYX_Kid]

haha borderliners might be good NPD slayers, but they are not all powerful at all

nothing to hate there

 

[Taniwha]

Any MBTI type can have NPD.

 

[GYX_Kid]

i know an ISTP with what seems like a relatively mild case of (real) NPD, mild enough that he's accepting of it and willing to make amends. really good guy overall.

 

[SkyWalker]

All types can have NPD?
Well... yes and no, depending on how you view it.
I was talking about *extreme* NPD
Maybe you just mean all types can be narcissistic, and sometimes even quite so. I agree with you on this.
But I just dont think all types can have *extreme* NPD.

It also makes sense to me that when feeling is dominant, the sufferer of an "evil" disorder is more likely to act borderline instead of narcissistic. Explained above. I think that a stronger thinking than feeling function is essential for NPD behavior.


Also I guess that N would enhance manipulation skills for an NPD-er in a sort of twisted creative way. A good liar needs to see possibilities / make up new stuff.
The S type NPD-er would probably re-use common lies, instead of making it up itself. Making it less prone to fantasy (false-self) and megalomania as well, I guess?? But on the other hand, it could still take those fantasy ideas from another (incl. a book etc).

 

[SkyWalker]

i know an ISTP with what seems like a relatively mild case of (real) NPD, mild enough that he's accepting of it and willing to make amends. really good guy overall.

This is not NPD, this is just a bit of normal narcissism.

To be classified as NPD, you have to be unable to take criticism, unable to confess, accept and/or ammend, etc...
(All of these you just disproved)

And *extreme* NPD is even worse

 

[Dimensional Transition]

Any MBTI type can have NPD.

/thread.