• OK, it's on.
  • Please note that many, many Email Addresses used for spam, are not accepted at registration. Select a respectable Free email.
  • Done now. Domine miserere nobis.

Can autists be intuitive?

Kormak

The IT barbarian - eNTP - 6w7-4-8 so/sx
Local time
Today 2:39 AM
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
513
---
Location
Your mother's basement
Ok, so my rough understanding of autism is that they have a very hard time abstracting from the concrete things to a low resolution generalized mental model or iconic representation and from there to language. So if you struggle turning lets say the physical plants into an abstract representation of a plant in your head and from there connecting that to a word... you are going to have an even harder time generalizing and connecting abstract concepts and so forming language. This probably means autists have a hard time forming a complex macro level abstract model of a working system in their heads. >.> so they don't recognize patterns with ease as the language refers to a specific thing from their memory that exists in the real world and not a generalized abstraction, which makes sense as to why recognizing other people's feelings and intentions becomes difficult. People change constantly and the entire process of interaction requires very complex pattern recognition.

To me this seems like autistic people are way over in the sensor spectrum in xSTx and xSFP sterritory.

Thoughts?
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
1,669
---
Location
Ireland
Definitely not, modelling icons requires intuition while sensing and feeling depend on the group dynamic to process understanding. They're high in NT
 

Kormak

The IT barbarian - eNTP - 6w7-4-8 so/sx
Local time
Today 2:39 AM
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
513
---
Location
Your mother's basement
Definitely not, modelling icons requires intuition while sensing and feeling depend on the group dynamic to process understanding. They're high in NT

How does sensing & feeling require group dinamic? What?
?_? so you say they aren't intutive, but they are high in NT... what
 

Rebis

Blessed are the hearts that can bend
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
1,669
---
Location
Ireland
Sensing is externalised compared to the intuition, feeling not so much but is dependent on two people rather than thinking which is related to the individual and an abstraction.

Sent from my H3113 using Tapatalk
 

Kormak

The IT barbarian - eNTP - 6w7-4-8 so/sx
Local time
Today 2:39 AM
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
513
---
Location
Your mother's basement
Sensing is externalised compared to the intuition, feeling not so much but is dependent on two people rather than thinking which is related to the individual and an abstraction.

Sent from my H3113 using Tapatalk

Group starts at 3 ppl as far as i'm aware. Fe works starting 2 ppl.
Hmm, I didn't exclude SFP or Se<->Fi users, because autists say they do have emotions and feelings towards stuff and people (group not necessary). They certainly looked like they knew what they wanted / liked in comparison to me... who well has no effing clue all the time.
I excluded Fe as a possibility, because they have a hard time reading other people and responding in turn, something even I as an NT am very good at.
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
Local time
Yesterday 5:39 PM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
11,431
---
Location
with mama
The condition as I understand it is about being unable to form representations of higher-order associations. In other words, they have trouble forming context around them.

Context is intuitive so it is not a matter of yes or no but rather in degree. Autistic people can be on the lower end of the continuum but it is not that they lack intuition just that they would be slower to acquire context.

Intuitives can be an autist. Slower to acquire context.
 

EndogenousRebel

Even a mean person is trying their best, right?
Local time
Yesterday 6:39 PM
Joined
Jun 13, 2019
Messages
2,252
---
Location
Narnia
I've taken sanctioned online tests that see how high on the spectrum you are. My score was borderline warranting a visit to the doctors office. This is likely because of a gene I have, though it's very vague ("intermediate" empathy). That would imply that I have trouble thinking about other peoples are thinking. This is abstraction of the meta kind?, but besides this I don't really have much trouble of using my imagination. I didn't like math in school, but remembering formulas is easy so I loved physics to an extent. I did have trouble with how light functions "virtually" or something, I daydreamed a lot though so I very likely wasn't paying attention when it was explained. I will say however that most of my empathy/compassion comes from my own introspective experiences. Had a long day? I understand that as I have had those. Girl troubles, I've had some of those too. It's very hard for me to imagine what someone would be experiencing without having dealt with that circumstance myself in one way or another. Some experiences I have could elastically be applied to others but it'd be a stretch for me to relate with those. While I guess you wouldn't call me autistic, intuition is simply a skill too useful to not develop. I've been told that I'm very alert, which I don't know seems like a sensing thing, but I could've acquired that from trauma. Either way I'm intuitive so I think that Autistic people do have some capacity to be intuitive.
 

Kormak

The IT barbarian - eNTP - 6w7-4-8 so/sx
Local time
Today 2:39 AM
Joined
Sep 18, 2019
Messages
513
---
Location
Your mother's basement
The condition as I understand it is about being unable to form representations of higher-order associations. In other words, they have trouble forming context around them.

Context is intuitive so it is not a matter of yes or no but rather in degree. Autistic people can be on the lower end of the continuum but it is not that they lack intuition just that they would be slower to acquire context.

Intuitives can be an autist. Slower to acquire context.

Hmm yeah, but wouldn't the difficulty in acquiring context make it easier for them to function as a sensor?

It lends itself better to detail focus, routine & mastery. Autists report "steel trap memory" aka incredible memory. Once the problems that make functioning in life are ironed out enough it would be a waste not to focus on strengths and just rely on other people to compensate for weaknesses.

For example, I'm probably on the other end of the spectrum. I'm chronically incapable of maintaining a routine and I get bored very fast, so repeating the same experience over and over is torture (watching a movie twice sucks). I thrive on chaos and navigating novel situations. This means once I acquire a rough overview of something and I understand the gist of it.. I'm done, I pack it up and move on. My memory for details is crap. I learn by abstracting and understaning how things work & connect. This is imo incredibly shallow, but I do get into a very broad range of subjects and interests where I have macro-level contextual understanding. Its gr8 for problem-solving on the fly and cross-discipline synthesis.

:S I'd lose my mind if ppl would force me into repetition, routine, and mastery. I imagine depending on where someone is on the spectrum, the opposite is true.
 

Minuend

pat pat
Local time
Today 1:39 AM
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
4,142
---
Perhaps there are subtypes of autism. I'm autistic, but I hate repetition, routine. My attention span is the size of my thumb, my memory the same. I get restless and nervous from unexpected events, but that is not the same as craving the same. Just because I'm poor at adapting does not mean I enjoy not- adapting or not-change. It only means it's difficult for me to adapt
 

Daddy

Making the Frogs Gay
Local time
Yesterday 7:39 PM
Joined
Sep 1, 2019
Messages
462
---
I guess I can only speak for myself, but I'm pretty sure I'm somewhere on the spectrum. Somebody recently introduced me to a psychological trait called "Need for Cognition" and it really hit home. I love when things feel like a puzzle, it draws me in and I will sometimes just sit and sort through my thoughts, feelings, and experiences. The complex is fascinating. But some people truly hate having to focus so much mental energy into things. And usually I can figure things out before other people or when it comes to people, abstract them accurately.

But it's also an irony because if things don't come naturally, putting more thought into things would be natural. For instance, I am not real good with eye contact and usually turn people off a bit, unless they are used to me. However, it also means because I don't think normally, I am free to see things "differently". It's hard to explain, but I liked the description for INTJ on personalityjunkie (https://personalityjunkie.com/the-intj/ ). Some things really relate.
https://personalityjunkie.com/the-intj/ said:
Regardless, INTJs’ amass a great deal of information for their Ni to chew on throughout their childhood. The longer they live and the more they see, the more their worldview crystallizes and the more confident they feel in their understanding of things. Even young INTJs are keen to understand what is happening around them. This is what Ni does. It looks beyond appearances to discern the root causes and structures of things.

If you think about it, being NT for me is about not paying attention to the obvious because it's not obvious to me! And seeing the obvious is generally an S trait.

I liked this too
https://personalityjunkie.com/the-intj/ said:
Another consequence of INTJs’ Perceiving dominance is their tendency to be passive or phlegmatic. More proactive types, such as ENTJs, might even consider them a bit lazy or apathetic. But calling INTJs lazy is to miss the point of what it means to be a Perceiver. Namely, since INTJs’ first and foremost job is to Perceive rather than Judge or act, functioning in a passive mode of perception is actually their most authentic mode of operating. Indeed, the reason that INTJs’ theories and insights are often superior is because they do not force things. They patiently allow their Ni intuition to collect and synthesize all the pertinent information before they draw conclusions. Again, others may be blinded to this reality if they focus exclusively on INTJs’ external presentation.

Being a social retard also means I'm much more likely to sit and backseat things. It's much more natural to observe and synthesize or something like that.

I'm also more likely to see multiple or deeper meanings to things because I'm not focused on the immediate, obvious, or superficial meanings. I remember reading an example about INTJs as kids having a hard time adjusting in school because they see things from many angles. I can't find it anymore, but the idea was something like this:

You're in school and your teacher gives you an instruction to use your left hand for something, but the teacher is using their right hand. Most children will just use their left hand because that's what they were told to use, but an INTJ child might wonder if they are supposed to use their right hand.
That was the idea anyway. It probably applies to all N types maybe, but I liked the example.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
5,262
---
Location
Between concrete walls
Few things. Autism is complicated issue. I studied as laymen autism for few years and read many books, looked up lot of videos and read a lot of topics.

Psychiatry for convenience sake uses autism spectrum disorder theory. It means you are on spectrum and its mainly, because autism has not been studied in great detail so they have no way of classifying different subtypes of autistic people although there are clearly different subtypes of autistic people.

Lets address N vs S now. Sensors are capable of abstracting. All humans with reasoning abilities must have this skill. Autistic people are able to abstract things, but there are autistic people who are retarded. Retarded people generally arent able to abstract or reason on decent level so we can not equate them with more intelligent people and its hard to compare them.

Sensor means you go from concrete to abstract. Intuitive means you can apply abstract concepts to concrete things. Many people who type themselves as intuitives are infact sensors, but they think, because they are capable of abstract thoughts they are intuitives.
Thats simply not true. Now what is true is the further you go on inuitive scale upwards the more intelligent people seem to be, thats not to say there arent intelligent sensors.
I know a guy with IQ 160 and is clear sensor.
Part of the issue is however its just a matter how much you intuit things and how good you are that and how much you favour intuition over concrete thinking. The S and N divide is really limited and doesnt explain the complex way we think anyhow so dont take it literally lol.

Are some autistic people intuitive? Of course they are. Not many though....
Autistic people have different brains. Mostly it means that there are different parts of autistic brain that arent so well conneceted while there are some parts of brain that are way over connected. This explains why so many autistic people have special interests that go beyond normal interested, but border on obsessive.

Normal nonautistic brains are designed to be more abstracting and less concrete in order to make the brain more flexible and adaptable. Thats all.
 

Polaris

Prolific Member
Local time
Yesterday 1:39 PM
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,261
---
Sensor means you go from concrete to abstract. Intuitive means you can apply abstract concepts to concrete things.

Would you mind explaining a bit more? Are you saying people who favour intuition develop abstractions independently of concrete things? However, abstract concepts cannot be conceived without inspiration from the external and concrete so I'm a bit lost here. Are you talking about the degree to which so-called intuitives generate abstractions compared to so-called sensors? Or are you talking about the ease which with intuitives can apply abstract concepts to the concrete compared to sensors? Doesn't that depend on capacity for abstraction (intelligence)?
 

computerhxr

Village Idiot
Local time
Yesterday 4:39 PM
Joined
Oct 21, 2014
Messages
789
---
Location
beyond space and time
From my understanding of Autism, is that they typically have frontal lobe (short-term working memory) issues.

When incoming information (stimuli) moves through the brain, a neuro-typical brain will move towards a singular location, while someone with Autism will move towards many different locations which overloads their brain circuitry.

The frontal lobe is known for executive function, and without it, their brain will not be capable of narrowing down to the destination with the resulting information required for normal interactions.

One reason that this is seen as advantageous for some high functioning autistics is because these are intuitive leaps, which is very similar to an abstract relational database. I can see how this would be confused for intuition in the Jungian sense, however it is different because they are parallel pathways vs. taking the pathway with the strongest neural pathway.

Imagine it like you ask someone about a cat, and you go find the result for cat. For a high functioning Autistic mind, they will get the cat, tiger, lion, fur, soft, warm, purring, comforting, scary, painful, happy, black, striped, meow, itchy, etc... Reducing these data-sets without short-term memory or executive function quickly leads to overload. Especially when you consider how many sounds, feeling, words, lights, and other sensory information is penetrating their psyche at once.

This is why they prefer systems and predictability because it is a replacement for their executive function. They have a canned response, or a routine to reduce the buildup of stimuli.

So yes, it is intuition, in my opinion, however it is not the same as the Intuitive thinking cognitive functions.

See the image below with the left showing Autism vs. Neuro-typical brain function.
4741
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
5,262
---
Location
Between concrete walls
Would you mind explaining a bit more? Are you saying people who favour intuition develop abstractions independently of concrete things? However, abstract concepts cannot be conceived without inspiration from the external and concrete so I'm a bit lost here. Are you talking about the degree to which so-called intuitives generate abstractions compared to so-called sensors? Or are you talking about the ease which with intuitives can apply abstract concepts to the concrete compared to sensors? Doesn't that depend on capacity for abstraction (intelligence)?

Intuitives are sensors too arent they? I mean being intuitive doesnt mean you dont sense the world. What it comes to is that intuitives focus more on emerging patterns, however sensors dont, that doesnt mean sensors dont have ability to see the pattern they just dont natural go to focusing at that.
 

Polaris

Prolific Member
Local time
Yesterday 1:39 PM
Joined
Oct 13, 2009
Messages
2,261
---
Intuitives are sensors too arent they? I mean being intuitive doesnt mean you dont sense the world. What it comes to is that intuitives focus more on emerging patterns, however sensors dont, that doesnt mean sensors dont have ability to see the pattern they just dont natural go to focusing at that.

That's what I was thinking too. I might have misunderstood your post.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
5,262
---
Location
Between concrete walls
That's what I was thinking too. I might have misunderstood your post.

The whole sensor vs intuitive divide is very theoretical really. What MBTI really means is what you have a strength and what you do naturally. Explains why so many intuitives can absorb the impressions of world around them, but have poor recall of details. Intuition is mainly trying to extract overall patter of the situation while sensors look at concrete things and work information as they come step by step and then afterwards they got all information they abstract and synthesize, while a intuitive person lets the subconscious do all the work and worry about the detail while it works behind the scenes the brain has more time to process other things. The down side of this is that intuitivs will miss details and not always get things on first go, but later on they might in complex situations have better understanding of greater overreaching patterns. That is in theory.
 

sushi

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
1,841
---
autists can be intuitive, they are just not intuitive about other people's feelings, reactions, and facial expressions, moods, , needs. it is impairment in reading people and the opposing side. its almost extroverted feeling tard.

alot of mathematical genius have autistic traits.

the media and movies tend to overexaggerate autism and asperger.
 

scorpiomover

The little professor
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
3,383
---
Would you mind explaining a bit more?

Sensor means you go from concrete to abstract.
Sensors start learning the Plié in ballet class, by learning the steps perfectly, and then later on try to make their Plié graceful. So Sensor reasoning goes from concrete -> abstract.

For example: When solving problems, sensors prefer to start with what they know.
If they don't find a solution there, they'll try something a bit different, and then look for a solution there.
If they don't find a solution there, they'll try something a bit more different, and then look for a solution there.
Then they'll keep repeating the last step, till they come to something that they think is worth trying.

In reality, as Jung pointed out, the dominant remains the point where you start from, and the place you aim to end at. So even though Sensors get to the theory, they're still usually trying to bring it back to how it relates to the physical steps.

So it's more like this: concrete -> abstract -> concrete -> abstract -> concrete.

When solving a problem, their criteria for a solution worth trying, is if they think that they can get the job done with it or not.

Intuitive means you can apply abstract concepts to concrete things.
Intuitives start learning the Plie in ballet class, by trying to make their Plie graceful, and then later on try to perfect the steps. So Intuitve reasoning goes from abstract -> concrete, from abstract theory to practical application.

But here again, the aim is to come back to the theory, to develop the theory better. If the application is already well-known, then it's already part of conventional, concrete, factual data, and then mentioning it advances our concrete data, but not our theory.

For that reason, Intuitives prefer the unknown, the abstract theory, the new, the unknown mental landscape waiting to be discovered and conquered.

As a result, Intuitives are known for often coming up with hitherto-unknown new ways that theories can be applied. Sensors think of them too. But they tend to not say them.

So Intuitives are more like this: abstract -> concrete -> abstract -> concrete -> abstract.

Or are you talking about the ease which with intuitives can apply abstract concepts to the concrete compared to sensors? Doesn't that depend on capacity for abstraction (intelligence)?
Also depends on if you want to do it or prefer to do something else.
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
Local time
Yesterday 5:39 PM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
11,431
---
Location
with mama
If I am correct an autist person can be intuitive. First is that Ni happens in the mind's eye. Seeing visions is a literal process. They close there eyes and let the images appear. The images arise from the subconscious and are literally day-dreams. The dreams tell them something like normal dreams tells people something about themselves. The opposite orientation Ne is just realizations brought upon by daily experience. Ni reads the inner symbology of a vision and Ne reads symbology of the outer world. To Ne the outer world is a symbolic dream where realizations happen.

Autists can have both visions and realizations. That means they can be intuitive.
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Local time
Today 1:39 AM
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
2,026
---
Location
germany
there is no coherent definition of what autism is supposed to mean. its a spectrum that contains the opposite of itself. it contains radical introversion (obsession with reflecting subjectively to no end), meaning a lack of extroversion (not understanding ones own situation or the situation of others and related desires, hopes, ambitions) and radical extroversion (an obsession with doing something, playing, tracking, collecting, compulsive cleaning), meaning a lack of introversion (not understanding the human condition, subjectivity and related sensibilities).

i define the "intuition" of typology as the comprehension of process, which can be concrete or abstract. a concrete comprehension of process is the prediction of a physical movement, such as when you calculate the speed at which a car approaches you, while it may also accelerate or slow down. an abstract comprehension of process is a psychoanalytical concept, such as maturation, puberty or transcendence. a developmental disorder would limit abstractions. every line of intelligence starts out concrete and becomes abstract later. for example the meaning of concrete sensation is obvious (sight, touch, sound, subjetive qualities like pressure, heat, taste, gut-emotions), but i argue that numbers and similar invisible facts are abstract sensations and i think this is often overlooked.

its seems that the word autism is sometimes used, when there is a deficit of either introverted or extroverted intuition, which might actually be caused by the radical presence of the opposite version of intuition. in this case the autism is a lack of either situational computing (what the hell is going on??? what do they WANT? what is asked of me?) or a lack of computing/mentalissing abstract internationalizes (where is he going with this, what is he up to? why does he do this?).

however, in many cases of the use of this word, the displaced deficit may not be a deficit of the comprehension (intuition) of how something is unfolding in time, but a deficit of awareness of WHAT ought to be comprehended - the object itself. it could be either a deficit of emotional or of logical awareness.

when you watch a movie and understand why people get angry, when they are being shouted at or insulted, but you never understand what they are all "plotting", its probably a lack of logical awareness, not a lack of seeing the plan unfold as a process. your mind may not track all the facts (sensation) and/or doesn't internalize related tactics or strategies (thinking). in real life, this would prevent you from participating i most group activities, in team work. it would constitute some social isolation and might be called autism.

when you don't understand, why your daughter has a need to party (to develop her emotional character and sense of boundaries) and are only concerned with the safety of parties in your neighborhood, you may have a deficit of emotional awareness in yourself, coupled with excessive understanding of either extroverted process (intuition of where this is going: infatuation, sex, pregnancy) or extroverted logic (the stategic intentions of a party set-up: getting people drunk, getting them laid, selling drugs, getting their money).
 

sushi

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
1,841
---
intuitive about other people, not about things or subjects, ideas or objects.

retarded or handicapped in a sense, unable to put yourself in someone's situation or shoes
 

nanook

a scream in a vortex
Local time
Today 1:39 AM
Joined
Aug 16, 2011
Messages
2,026
---
Location
germany
i find this contradiction of the term very bothersome.

traditionally extroversion with a deficit of introversion is associated with related defense mechanisms, which are narcissism and the choleric temperament, borderline, anti-social PD (which is however not a defense reaction tho), hysteria and probably bipolarity (all reactions belonging to different extroverted types). but narcissism and borderline and anti-social are described as being coincided with a lack of empathy, which is precisely the lack of introversion, not at all a lack of extroversion. all of these characters are somewhat manipulative, of people or at least their situation (as in mania, there is magical, intuitive manifestation), so there is abundant extroversion.

nevertheless, there is no good word to describe the original developmental problem, the lack of introversion AKA empathy, which leads to defense mechanisms, such as narcissism.

(a short description of what i mean by narcicism: you define yourself as what you do and are unaware of the introverted subjectivity of how you value what you do as being the best thing that anyone could possibly do, just because it is your own choice - you justfy the conviction that your deed is the best thing to do, by seeking objective external faults in what other people do or by simply denying that they have any subjective reason to do what they do, as you are blind to their subjective needs).

in a group of supposedly autistic people, i find a ton of narcissistic individuals: some feeling type borderline narcissists, some thinking types, probably INTJ and ENTJ. some of those are highly narcissistic, but some are actually rather sane, in the sense that they do not maintain any obvious defense narratives, self-righteousness, superiority. they admit to their deficit of introversion, without quite conceptualizing it as such and they call it autism.

these people may be bank directors but have no friends. like einstein, they may have a wife and kids, but dont really know how to relate to human subjects. they take care of material needs, without difficulty, because they find their way around in the world with ease. they see situations clearly and objectively. extroverted thinking or extroverted perception. entp, intp, esfp, estp, etc.... in the case of borderline narcicists, they may hang out in swinger clubs and appreciate the mechanical directness and blutness of connections, they may shy away from more intimate connections, as it would unveil their difficulties with reflecting on what they want, who they are, etc.

but traditionally, so called aspies are highly sensitive, highly reflective introverts, much like myself, unless i am projecting. INFJ and INFP with shizoid defense mechanism. INTP and ISTP on occasion. people who cant extrovert at all, who never understand what is going on around them, what anyone is up to. can't even sort out the noise of voices.

so it seems like autism and aspies were once the opposite of each other.

but now the terminology is conflated. the autists identify with aspi and officially aspi has been renamed to autism. i hate this paradigm.

a deficit of a particular line or area of intelligence leads to neurological overload, when life is demanding the use of this kind of intelligence.

another example of this strange conflation of terminology is that overload is now associated with a choleric loss of temper. its understandable that a small child of any type will start to cry and shout in anger and frustration, whenever it is overwhelmed in any way at all.

but when a grown up is reacting like this, he must have a particularly poorly developed introversion, for not having a grasp on his enactment.

its like the choleric temperament of all narcissists is now conflated with the word autism.

i have neurological overload all the time, usually associated with embarrassment or anxiety of transgressions. i can feel much hidden wrath against transgressors, but any emotions of mine are totally unrelated to meltdown. my meltdown occurs from overthinking the difficulties of the interaction, its purely mental and a problem of understanding. i do not have intuitive clarity on how the situation is, realistically. no closure. i cant tell if inferior extroverted feeling or poor extroverted perception, probably both.

some people have purely sensory overload, just because of random physical stimulus, like noise and visual details flashing by. this is very rare for me. they may have inferior extroverted sensation.

autism can be anything today. it looks like a conspiracy of psychiatry, to diagnose everyone on demand, in arbitrary ways, to take away legal responsibility, to force decisions on people, such as perhaps vaccinations or chemo therapies or to take away various liberties.
 

Black Rose

An unbreakable bond
Local time
Yesterday 5:39 PM
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
11,431
---
Location
with mama
A man I knew once told me autism was when a network's connections were too thick and the noise generated drowned incoming signals. Conversely, schizophrenia would be a thin set of connections generating false positives everywhere in the few connections left.

If we take it that people on the spectrum experience all share overload in common we can conclude that child development would be stunted. In studies, it has been shown that the brain develops in the frontal lobes too early. Babies do not look in the eyes and stare at walls. That is in severe cases. Obviously social problems arise when you are still 2 and do not respond to your name. The brain is too thick and social cues must be learned later in life. People on the spectrum not as extreme simply have some areas different for each individual where their brain developed to fast or too slow. That is where the spectrum arises. The distribution of neural development is different in each brain.

My mom does not have autism because autism is a fast development in the brain. Her doctor told me she was developmentally delayed, this means development was slow, not fast. Her brain matured slower than normal. Maturing faster could be why most aspies are said to be overly logical.

I think that if I am on the spectrum it would be because I had abnormal development distributed throughout my brain. I would be high functioning. I do not have problems with people. But of course, it could be brain damage and not innate.
 

sushi

Prolific Member
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Aug 15, 2013
Messages
1,841
---
In the imitation game movie, Alan Turing was quite intuitive about computers and math.

but he was sociallly retarded and can't get along with co workers. anyway i dont want to spoil the movie.

Autistic has limited intuition and empathy for other people, but so do alot of normal people, psychopaths and sociopaths.
 

BurnedOut

Your friendly neighborhood asshole
Local time
Today 6:09 AM
Joined
Apr 19, 2016
Messages
1,457
---
Location
A fucking black hole
It won't matter if are unemotional or emotions. Intuition in its very real sense, according to me, is nothing but the ability to correct forecast a certain chain of events. But how is that even possible when you don't perform trial and error on that particular object ?

Now even if you are a psychopath, you can develop 'human' intuition. What if you are autistic ? You have to work harder on the puzzle and you will definitely figure it out.

Maybe many people overlook the fact that the person in question is simply not motivated and hence is never able to develop the tiniest bit of intuition which is built by trial and error.

Some intuition is derived genetically such as empathy.

Read about implicit and explicit memory.
 

ZenRaiden

One atom of me
Local time
Today 12:39 AM
Joined
Jul 27, 2013
Messages
5,262
---
Location
Between concrete walls
As far as I know psychopaths just do not have certain brain parts active. Which simply means that they do not relate to other peoples emotions well, but they have the cognitive capacity to actually know the emotions. So they lack only part of empathy. They are actually good with empathy. Reason why psychopaths can manipulate people for their benefit.

Autistics have other issues. They may not have soft skills. They maybe too blunt and honest. They very much may appear say egoistic, because they have no clue how other people see them. They can miss subtle clues off distress or anger or happiness, but they rarely lack the capacity to see obvious signs of distress anger or happiness. They may lack the ability to understand why someone is happy or distressed or angry, and may have trouble understanding peoples motivations that are different from their own.

To put it in analogy if your were psychopath you would be the actor who plays his part well, but you are simply acting it out for sake of the audience.

Whereas autistic people terrible actors. They do not know their lines, so they say things that really seem to not fit their part. They only remember the rough draft.
They cannot convince the audience that they care even if in reality they are more invested then it seems. This is really the issue.
 

byhisello99

Member
Local time
Yesterday 6:39 PM
Joined
Mar 3, 2020
Messages
73
---
but now the terminology is conflated. the autists identify with aspi and officially aspi has been renamed to autism. i hate this paradigm.

a deficit of a particular line or area of intelligence leads to neurological overload, when life is demanding the use of this kind of intelligence.
You've captured the essence of the issues. Terminology isn't agreed, and most people's first thought about autism is a deficit. I consider it a difference and not a deficit.

The OP speaks to conceptualizing, facility with language and an inability to recognize complex patterns quickly. My native language is English; I was already certified as a Federal court translator in both French and Spanish before attending medical school in Germany, in German, and starting a psychiatry residency. I had no difficulty with language, nor with rapid complex pattern recognition. I'm an INTJ, and according to my residency proctor, an ultra-high-functioning autistic.

The book "A Beautiful Mind" resonated with me. I, too, can identify complex patterns easily - sometimes too easily. I have learned to create what are essentially tables of input cross-referenced to other tables of meaning. When, after half or 5/6ths of a second I have a meaning, then I go to cross-references of socially acceptable responses. This has been because I am married to a woman who looks in a mirror and sees "normal," and since I don't react normally, I'm abnormal and thus untrustworthy. My reactions always lag at least one second.

I've lost a bunch of IQ points. I'm 72 and have incurable hydrocephalus and incurable COPD, which will kill me unless cancer returns a third time, I have a third stroke, or heart disease kills me or the endless litany of neurological disorders takes me. I was tested at the genius range 51 years ago; nowadays, I can remember my own name three times out of four on a good day.

Autistics are different, not defective. They don't require external validation, they rarely need a partner. They are limited in their ability to lie effectively, which is why claiming autistics overlap with narcissists is funny. Narcissists are compelled to lie. Some of us are savants or demi-savants, I'm in the second category. I can still multiply four-digit numbers in my head, add left to right, write and arrange music, write fiction and in general be a pain in the ass.

It took me decades to work up the courage to ask a waitress who says, "If you need something, my name is Alice," "What's your name if we don't need anything?" I'm still not sure why so many people see this as humorous.
 
Top Bottom