Calling older INTPs

[Haiduc]

Hi Folks!

Long time lurker, first time poster (at least, first proper post).

I turn 30 this week. And perhaps I haven't achieved what I thought I would have achieved by this point. I have a decent job, but it's not amazing. I don't have a girlfriend. A lot of my friends live elsewhere. I'm starting to think seriously about the direction my life is going.

So guys, what's in store for me in the future? How does life pan out for an INTP as they get older? Does it get easier? Does it get harder? Have you managed to find fulfilling employment? Or a fulfilling relationship? What does either of those look like? Has life worked out how you thought it would? What does a 40, 50, etc. year old INTP look like? In short, how does it work from this point in?

I look forward to hearing from you!

 

[EditorOne]

Isn't that what's called a "spoiler?"

 

[SpaceYeti]

My life had started really sucking, so I had to do something about it. I joined the military. I dunno how that'll pan out if you try it. It's very SJ.

 

[Lobstrich]

You should totally watch these romantic midlife crisis movies for women. They helped me and I'm only 19! They have so much depth in them, and the lessons you learn! Just wow!

Spoiler

I'm being sarcastic. Just letting anyone who might be in doubt, know.

 

[BigApplePi]

My INTPness did not go well for me until I made connections. I was way too shy. I was isolated and lonely. Today I am retired and have lots of connections and could make more if I wished.

You can start by telling us more about yourself, but that's your call. It's not that I need to know, but someone else might pick up on what you say. Think of it as planting a seed. It may grow for you, and if not you might have to move the seed. I don't have an easy answer in a vacuum.

 

[BigApplePi]

You should totally watch these romantic midlife crisis movies for women.

Lobstrich. That could go well for you should you grow older, maybe not wiser, and decide to go in for that sex change operation.

 

[Lobstrich]

Lobstrich. That could go well for you should you grow older, maybe not wiser, and decide to go in for that sex change operation.

I know right?! That was my plan. Or well, not exactly. But I like to leave doors open.

 

[BigApplePi]

Lol.

 

[Da Blob]

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=3853&highlight=erikson

Love: Intimacy vs. Isolation (Young Adults, 25 to 40 years)
Main Question: "Am I loved and wanted?" or "Shall I share my life with someone or live alone?"
Virtue: Love
Related Elements in Society: patterns of cooperation (often marriage)
Main article: Young adult (psychology)
The Intimacy vs. Isolation conflict is emphasized around the ages of 30. At the start of this stage, identity vs. role confusion is coming to an end, and it still lingers at the foundation of the stage (Erikson, 1950). Young adults are still eager to blend their identities with friends. They want to fit in. Erikson believes we are sometimes isolated due to intimacy. We are afraid of rejections such as being turned down or our partners breaking up with us. We are familiar with pain, and to some of us, rejection is painful; our egos cannot bear the pain. Erikson also argues that "Intimacy has a counterpart: Distantiation: the readiness to isolate and if necessary, to destroy those forces and people whose essence seems dangerous to our own, and whose territory seems to encroach on the extent of one's intimate relations" (1950).[9][10]
Once people have established their identities, they are ready to make long-term commitments to others. They become capable of forming intimate, reciprocal relationships (e.g. through close friendships or marriage) and willingly make the sacrifices and compromises that such relationships require. If people cannot form these intimate relationships – perhaps because of their own needs – a sense of isolation may result.


[edit]Care: Generativity vs. Stagnation (Middle Adulthood, 45 to 65 years)
Psychosocial Crisis: Generativity vs. Stagnation
Main Question: "Will I produce something of real value?"
Virtue: Care
Related Elements in Society: parenting, educating, or other productive social involvement
Generativity is the concern of establishing and guiding the next generation. Socially-valued work and disciplines are expressions of generativity. Simply having or wanting children does not in and of itself achieve generativity.
During middle age the primary developmental task is one of contributing to society and helping to guide future generations. When a person makes a contribution during this period, perhaps by raising a family or working toward the betterment of society, a sense of generativity- a sense of productivity and accomplishment- results. In contrast, a person who is self-centered and unable or unwilling to help society move forward develops a feeling of stagnation- a dissatisfaction with the relative lack of productivity.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erikson's_stages_of_psychosocial_development

 

[Architect]

44 here.

I didn't really get my act together until about 40. I had a wife, kid and good job, but wasn't doing what I really wanted (I thought), was generally dissatisfied etc. But starting around 40 something happens, tried up with the midlife crisis process probably. Basically you realize you can't fart around anymore, you're running out of time. Screwing off is a luxury of youth, as you age that disappears.

I was lucky in that the work I had done earlier in my life (establishing the job and family) paid off, and I was able to finally, finally figure out what I wanted to do with myself. And I had the money and support I needed to do it. I shudder to think what would have happened if I was broke and lonely at 40.

The other advantage I saw was being able to look back and see what you really were good at. Hard to have illusions about yourself with 40 years.

 

[Darby]

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=3853&highlight=erikson

I just got to the second set of 8, so I'm not 100% on this. However, I don't thinkmy parents had trouble with most of this, but I fail to accomplish about 4 of the 8 every day, which would explain my inability to hold onto anything more than shallow relationships.

EDIT: I apologize, I am not very old, I'm here because I thought maybe I could find similar answers to the one the OP posed.

 

[Da Blob]

I just got to the second set of 8, so I'm not 100% on this. However, I don't thinkmy parents had trouble with most of this, but I fail to accomplish about 4 of the 8 every day, which would explain my inability to hold onto anything more than shallow relationships.

EDIT: I apologize, I am not very old, I'm here because I thought maybe I could find similar answers to the one the OP posed.

Not to worry, it is necessary to have a firm foundation in the first set of four, otherwise the next set is much more challenging that it should be. IMO, few that do not experience Josselson's first four can ever fully realize the later developmental stages. Their Childhood is much more important that a lot of adults believe...

 

[digital angel]

Hi Folks!

Long time lurker, first time poster (at least, first proper post).

I turn 30 this week. And perhaps I haven't achieved what I thought I would have achieved by this point. I have a decent job, but it's not amazing. I don't have a girlfriend. A lot of my friends live elsewhere. I'm starting to think seriously about the direction my life is going.

So guys, what's in store for me in the future? How does life pan out for an INTP as they get older? Does it get easier? Does it get harder? Have you managed to find fulfilling employment? Or a fulfilling relationship? What does either of those look like? Has life worked out how you thought it would? What does a 40, 50, etc. year old INTP look like? In short, how does it work from this point in?

I look forward to hearing from you!

Where do you want your life to go? I'm a bit older and I love being a tax attorney. I can't say that I've achieved everything I've wanted to either but I still have years ahead of me. I like keeping my options open and so I take it one step at a time.

 

[Darby]

Not to worry, it is necessary to have a firm foundation in the first set of four, otherwise the next set is much more challenging that it should be. IMO, few that do not experience Josselson's first four can ever fully realize the later developmental stages. Their Childhood is much more important that a lot of adults believe...

I'm confused now, I was saying that it feels like I don't have a proper foundation in the first four sets of two. I just don't think my parents were that terrible. This is not the thread to discuss this in so I will see if I can move the rest of this back to the original thread, or ignore it all together from here on out, sorry for wasting everyone's time...

 

[Haiduc]

My life had started really sucking, so I had to do something about it. I joined the military. I dunno how that'll pan out if you try it. It's very SJ.

How's that working out for you? It's gotta be good developing your SJ, right? Is that something you reckon you'll stick with?

 

[TurboDanza]

Hi Folks!

Long time lurker, first time poster (at least, first proper post).

I turn 30 this week. And perhaps I haven't achieved what I thought I would have achieved by this point. I have a decent job, but it's not amazing. I don't have a girlfriend. A lot of my friends live elsewhere. I'm starting to think seriously about the direction my life is going.

So guys, what's in store for me in the future? How does life pan out for an INTP as they get older? Does it get easier? Does it get harder? Have you managed to find fulfilling employment? Or a fulfilling relationship? What does either of those look like? Has life worked out how you thought it would? What does a 40, 50, etc. year old INTP look like? In short, how does it work from this point in?

I look forward to hearing from you!

Perhaps you might consider whether you want the answers, or if they're truly important?

Focus on the journey, you'll find out when you get there.

 

[Haiduc]

My INTPness did not go well for me until I made connections. I was way too shy. I was isolated and lonely. Today I am retired and have lots of connections and could make more if I wished.

In what way wasn't it going well? Was this before you knew you were an INTP (so to speak)? And do you mean 'making connections' as in getting out there and meeting people? That in itself is interesting. It's hard trying to get the balance right between indulging your INTPness and getting out of your comfort zone in order to develop as a person.

You can start by telling us more about yourself, but that's your call. It's not that I need to know, but someone else might pick up on what you say. Think of it as planting a seed. It may grow for you, and if not you might have to move the seed. I don't have an easy answer in a vacuum.

I work in financial services in a technical, quasi-legal role. There are parts I like -- for example, when a new piece of legislation is passed and I can pick it to pieces -- and parts I don't like, such as the more mundane admin tasks. The company's successful, but still fairly small (and therefore flexible), so I'm trying to shape my role as far as is possible. I feel like I'm still on an upward trajectory, so that's ok.

It's probably my personal situation more than my work situation if I'm honest. Everyone in my family is married, and I always assumed I would do likewise. Now I'm wondering if that's how it will work out. I'm imagining a future on my own, but I can't work out if that's as bad as I might think. This is by no means an INTP-only issue, but it would be interesting hearing from people who've been in a similar situation.

Having said that, I'm interested in anything people have to say, especially INTPs who have gone through these trials and tribulations.

 

[Haiduc]

44 here.

I didn't really get my act together until about 40. I had a wife, kid and good job, but wasn't doing what I really wanted (I thought), was generally dissatisfied etc. But starting around 40 something happens, tried up with the midlife crisis process probably. Basically you realize you can't fart around anymore, you're running out of time. Screwing off is a luxury of youth, as you age that disappears.

I was lucky in that the work I had done earlier in my life (establishing the job and family) paid off, and I was able to finally, finally figure out what I wanted to do with myself. And I had the money and support I needed to do it. I shudder to think what would have happened if I was broke and lonely at 40.

The other advantage I saw was being able to look back and see what you really were good at. Hard to have illusions about yourself with 40 years.

Interesting. What did you change, and how did you change it? If you had to offer any advice on that front, what would it be?

I suppose life's a game, and sometimes you've just got to play it if you want to succeed in it. (It's just pretty frustrating that you can't really stop playing if you don't want to!)

 

[Haiduc]

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=3853&highlight=erikson

Thanks for this.

Some interesting stuff in there. I need to take a bit more time to properly read and digest it.

 

[Haiduc]

Where do you want your life to go? I'm a bit older and I love being a tax attorney. I can't say that I've achieved everything I've wanted to either but I still have years ahead of me. I like keeping my options open and so I take it one step at a time.

I'm not totally sure to be honest. I probably need to spend some time thinking through how I can achieve some sustainable kind of happiness/fulfillment.

I'd quite like to have my own place, so I should probably factor that into the equation. Beyond that, as long as there's sport on the tv and bacon in fridge, I might just be ok. One thing I have been thinking about is whether I'm ok with the possiblity of spending my life without a significant other. If I'm not, then I guess I should make more of a concerted effort to do something about it...

 

[TurboDanza]

I suggest showing her this page: http://homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/iblog/B1386252977/C707866389/E447100039/index.html

 

[Jennywocky]

42.

Actually, I still don't know quite what I really want to do with my life, but unfortunately I need a decent job right now to help pay the kids' expenses (the eldest is heading to college in two years), so I'm stuck.

That being said, I look at the 40's me vs the 30's me, and I see someone who knows who she is, and what she's capable of, and what she can accomplish, and how to organize her life to get what she wants. After 10 years in a stagnant floating job, I moved into development work (because I could do it), learned enough, worked my butt off to get in with the government, nailed my very first job interview in 12 years, and now work as a systems analyst. I don't want to advance right this moment, I'm still learning my position; but I know when I feel I'm ready to move on, I will never "float" again. My 30's were a time for me to develop the confidence and organization/Te skills necessary to work a practical issue and get the results I wanted, rather than just sitting around imagining my future. (I also made some other significant "change my life" decisions as well, and really did a MASSIVE reboot of my life!)

The difference between my 20's and 30's can be summed up in this: I moved away from having to be a logical robot and became a person with feeling and values to complement my rationality ... without feeling shame or apologizing for it. I did spend my 30's honing myself in alignment with that shift in my self-concept, but my 20's was the decade where I actually made that internal shift. It was hard fought, hard won, and just... hard... but I did it.

It's a shame that two decades had to be spent learning skills and acquiring traits that others often have in spades, but I guess we all have stuff to work on. I am positioned for productivity and life fulfillment at this point. I'm hoping my 40's and 50's just get better and better.

You should totally watch these romantic midlife crisis movies for women. They helped me and I'm only 19! They have so much depth in them, and the lessons you learn! Just wow!

Oh shuddup, you little crustacean pipsqueak.

I'm being sarcastic. Just letting anyone who might be in doubt, know.

What's sick is that I try to thumb past Lifetime, and if I watch it for more than 2 minutes, I get hooked.

Then I feel a desire to gouge out my eyes and bang my head on the coffee table, out of shame and embarrassment.

Spoiler

actually, j/k too. Type is no longer a box for me.

 

[EditorOne]

OK: To the original post:
I think the passage of years isn't as important as self awareness. Those who are young and know about their own personality type have a rudder to steer with. Some of us who are older (61) never were exposed to any of this until perhaps into our 40s. What younger, self-aware INTPs don't have to deal with is quite so much of the "what's wrong with me?" paradigm some of us struggled with for years before finding out "Oh. I'm not broken. I'm supposed to be this way."
Knowing who you are and what your strengths, weaknesses and blind spots are makes everything easier than it otherwise would be, although we still face difficulties.
What I suspect you'll find is that you will, as you grow older, have more confidence in yourself, more understanding of others who are different, and a better idea what matters to whom under various circumstances. That is, for example, "sometimes it is just better to shut up than say what you're thinking because, fool, you are at a funeral and everyone's emotions are wound up tight enough to cut off their blood flow and you often demonstrate the ability to put your foot in someone else's mouth without intending to do that." Emotionally clumsy people need to fade into the wallpaper at such times. On the other hand, if your company is facing doom because of a problem you've figured out the solution for, you'll probably not hesitate to do whatever it takes to get your thinking in front of someone who actually cares what happens to the company, even if it means jumping across the hierarchy or pounding down someone's door. With experience, you know when to push and when to let go. And you know that no matter what you do, eventually you'll become somewhat jaded with it, so you'll constantly be looking for new things to learn about and do, whether professionally or just in life on your own time - in fact, you'll be looking for things to do professionally that ARE your own life, rather than things you can barely bring yourself to do just for the paycheck.
I hope that helps.

 

[BigApplePi]

In what way wasn't it going well? Was this before you knew you were an INTP (so to speak)? And do you mean 'making connections' as in getting out there and meeting people? That in itself is interesting. It's hard trying to get the balance right between indulging your INTPness and getting out of your comfort zone in order to develop as a person.

Haiduc. This morning I'm wondering if everyone's situation is so different they can't help each other or are there things in common and we do share the situations after all. Things weren't going well for me because I was in a desperate situation (this was decades ago for me, mind you). I had no social skills, zero, here in New York and no way to break out of my isolation. I would go for what must have been months without talking to anyone (other than work) because I had no one to talk to. And at work I was shy too. INTP? I had no idea what that was and it would be many years before I'd find out. I don't like to think about it but will if encouraged or others feel the same.

Today I feel as if many layers of awareness have opened for me and I would not care to go back to any previous layer for any reason. I got out of my situation ... long story ... by minor social connections at first and then girl friends. Believe me, getting that first girl friend broke my isolation and changed everything but at the beginning I didn't know what to do with it.

I work in financial services in a technical, quasi-legal role. There are parts I like -- for example, when a new piece of legislation is passed and I can pick it to pieces -- and parts I don't like, such as the more mundane admin tasks. The company's successful, but still fairly small (and therefore flexible), so I'm trying to shape my role as far as is possible. I feel like I'm still on an upward trajectory, so that's ok.

It's probably my personal situation more than my work situation if I'm honest. Everyone in my family is married, and I always assumed I would do likewise. Now I'm wondering if that's how it will work out. I'm imagining a future on my own, but I can't work out if that's as bad as I might think. This is by no means an INTP-only issue, but it would be interesting hearing from people who've been in a similar situation.

Having said that, I'm interested in anything people have to say, especially INTPs who have gone through these trials and tribulations.

Today I think: INTP, yes. But INTP or not, what is it you wish beyond your job? Is it so simple as getting a girlfriend? Or so difficult as socializing in a group appealing to you? Socializing? Today in New York it's very easy. There are dozens of "Meet ups" where an INTP is sure to find something of interest. It's almost like being in heaven compared to my early years. Outside of this easy solution you have all the social vehicles mentioned on various threads on this forum.

 

[BitRogue]

Some pretty sage thoughts coming out here. I've just turned 39 about a month ago. I still feel like I'm around 25 for all the 'maturity' I've gained. But lately Im wondering if thats a good thing at all.

So yes, Im nearly 40, Im still single, no girlfriend on the horizon. I'm living in a country thats not my own, in a town where I know no one. Described like that, my life sounds pretty sad.

Well, truth is, there are a lot of postives too. On the whole, Im pretty restless, I always think I can be doing something better than where I am now. Leaving my career out of it, suffice to say Im living halfway around the world, and travel all over Europe, and sometimes further, on a weekly basis where my company pays for everything, certainly doesnt sound half bad.
But its my personal goals that I have a problem with. Or should I say, lack therof. At 39 and I still dont really know what to do with my life, doesnt seem to bode well. Today I feel like programming on some open-source project idea of mine. Tomorrow I'll feel like watching some new anime. The next day I want to play Dragon Age or take the camera and go for a drive into the countryside. I fill my life up with all these little tasks I like to do. I've become a licenced Amateur Radio operator. I was on my way to getting my private pilots licence before I relocated. I've bought a 4x4 and done month long trips into the bush where I dont see another white face for the whole time (and where Im the first white face some of those people have ever seen). Theres too much I want to do. And time ... well, its all doppler, the closer you get to the end, the clearer you see it. The more I want to do, the more catatonic and paralyzed I get and the less I do.

Anyway, thats how it feels. Currently it seems I reinvent my life every 3 years. I've just moved house, again, last month. Selling off the car because I almost never drive it, now I'll be saving tons of money. My house is nearly paid off, I'll be debt free in less than 2 years. Its been about 3 years since the last big change, so its about right. I think its time I tried internet dating sites again. But oh, none of them are capable of matching on MBTI types. But thats not so important, is it? Or do you REALLY think you're going to be happy with that ISFJ the fuzzy zero-logic matching engine just found you?

Ah yes, 40 years old, when I can still kick back on my couch and watch my own movies without anyone complaining in the background and play Mass Effect for hours without anyone moaning about not spending time with them.

Oh hell, I dont really know what I want, even now.

 

[BigApplePi]

Ah yes, 40 years old, when I can still kick back on my couch and watch my own movies without anyone complaining in the background and play Mass Effect for hours without anyone moaning about not spending time with them.

Oh hell, I dont really know what I want, even now.

You seem to have a lot of interests that are self-sustaining. An extroverted mate might break into that (and even help define yourself), so what about an introverted one? In my case my wife (introverted) does her own thing in one room and I in another. Sometimes I'm alone in the apartment and she is out at the house or vice versa. We get along fine in that respect. But on the other hand each of us does demand a certain amount of attention from the other. I have to make sure she gets it or I run into trouble, lol. The problem might be an introverted woman might not be very visible ... try consulting with such on this forum ... . Perhaps those internet dating services would uncover them. Don't know.

Added: my wife loaned me her earphones a few weeks ago. Now I can watch a film on my computer without bothering her. It's great.

 

[BitRogue]

Lately I've been obsessing over the possibility (hope?) that an ENTP girlfriend might come along who has similar interests as I do. Then that would negate most of my grumbles about having a mate and still getting to do what I want to do.

I've long noticed now that I seem to be highly attracted to introverted girls, but have noticed that some of the best times I've had have been with extroverted girls who seem to effortlessly snatch me out of my shell and drag me down some rollercoaster ride of fun, both mentally and physically (these girls are rare, I might add). Wheras the introverted girls seem to struggle to fully grab my attention and soon we just drift into our own little worlds and then I hear complaints about me not being interested and pushing her out of my world.

This risks being in the Human Relationship section but what I was actually getting at is that I wouldnt mind someone coming into my world at this stage of my life and shaking it up a little. But only outgoing energetic/bubbly girls seem capable of that. I'm not exactly single by choice, but I've turned down a few girls because I know that continuing would just be causing unhappiness for everyone, and knowing that would hurt worse than the situation itself.

 

[BigApplePi]

Lately I've been obsessing over the possibility (hope?) that an ENTP girlfriend might come along who has similar interests as I do. Then that would negate most of my grumbles about having a mate and still getting to do what I want to do.

I've long noticed now that I seem to be highly attracted to introverted girls, but have noticed that some of the best times I've had have been with extroverted girls who seem to effortlessly snatch me out of my shell and drag me down some rollercoaster ride of fun, both mentally and physically (these girls are rare, I might add). Wheras the introverted girls seem to struggle to fully grab my attention and soon we just drift into our own little worlds and then I hear complaints about me not being interested and pushing her out of my world.

This risks being in the Human Relationship section but what I was actually getting at is that I wouldnt mind someone coming into my world at this stage of my life and shaking it up a little. But only outgoing energetic/bubbly girls seem capable of that. I'm not exactly single by choice, but I've turned down a few girls because I know that continuing would just be causing unhappiness for everyone, and knowing that would hurt worse than the situation itself.

Maybe one has to think long term versus short term. Different kind of girl for a shorter term. Can't expect the longer term relationship to be as exciting. Getting along is more important. Now why wouldn't that apply to friendships as well as romantic relationships? I guess my point is to expect one person to supply all is a fallacy unless you have this facility within yourself.

 

[BitRogue]

Maybe one has to think long term versus short term. Different kind of girl for a shorter term. Can't expect the longer term relationship to be as exciting. Getting along is more important. Now why wouldn't that apply to friendships as well as romantic relationships? I guess my point is to expect one person to supply all is a fallacy unless you have this facility within yourself.

The thing missing most in my life is what I call companionship. I don't need a girl to help me out in any other area, ie to look after me, cook, clean, pay the bills - I can do them all for myself and I think its very two dimensional to have these as sole requirements for a mate. No, what Id very much like is to find that person who I can actually live life with. In the early years, my friends were those people, but they have moved on. I think a long term romantic relationship for me would be ideal, but in a way where she serves as both romantic partner and friend / partner in crime, so to speak. A relationship like this would last forever because its based on an attraction which never ages, unlike the flesh. There really should be no need to date for short stints to satisfy short term 'phases'. The exception being to actually learn about yourself and find out what works or doesn't work for you.

I don't know that expecting something like this would be a fallacy, certainly someone checking all our checkboxes for desired requirements in a mate is unfeasible, but then, even our closest friends are not perfect.

 

[Jennywocky]

The thing missing most in my life is what I call companionship. I don't need a girl to help me out in any other area, ie to look after me, cook, clean, pay the bills - I can do them all for myself and I think its very two dimensional to have these as sole requirements for a mate. No, what Id very much like is to find that person who I can actually live life with.

I'm about the same age, and you've basically summarized how I feel as well. I'm a self-sufficient woman and don't "need" a man in order to take care of myself, I'm very capable of surmounting challenges that come my way...

... at this point, I just want someone to be part of my life and share the journey with me. It gets old being in my own head all the time, and doing things alone, even if there is a benefit of flexibility and freedom from having only one person to accommodate.

 

[a detached retina]

^I think this is common. I know a couple of friends' parents who feel this way.

I'm only 20 and I feel I've garnered some wisdom from this thread.
At this stage in my life I don't feel as comfortable with myself, and I'm still changing/figuring out who I even am. In this way having a 2 year girlfriend (2 year relationship, I'm not dating a 2 year old) is quite different than I feel it would be if we met when we were 40. We help each other with self-discovery and I would even argue that she is part of my definition and helps shape who I am. (The same way that my parents did when I was a little kid, or that culture at large does.)

The compatibility component involves more of the "who do you want to be" rather than the "who are you." Since neither of us can reasonably be expected to know the latter.

 

[BigApplePi]

The thing missing most in my life is what I call companionship. I don't need a girl to help me out in any other area, ie to look after me, cook, clean, pay the bills - I can do them all for myself and I think its very two dimensional to have these as sole requirements for a mate. No, what Id very much like is to find that person who I can actually live life with. In the early years, my friends were those people, but they have moved on. I think a long term romantic relationship for me would be ideal, but in a way where she serves as both romantic partner and friend / partner in crime, so to speak. A relationship like this would last forever because its based on an attraction which never ages, unlike the flesh. There really should be no need to date for short stints to satisfy short term 'phases'. The exception being to actually learn about yourself and find out what works or doesn't work for you.

I don't know that expecting something like this would be a fallacy, certainly someone checking all our checkboxes for desired requirements in a mate is unfeasible, but then, even our closest friends are not perfect.

This seems a very on target post even though you are unmarried and I am. Here is a conversation I just had with my wife. What do you think its meaning is? It happens to be lunchtime and instead of my going into the frig, she made me an omelette.

Wife, "How did you like the omelette?"
BAP, "It was good. What did you put in it?"
Wife, "Chives and luncheon meat."
BAP, "Luncheon meat? Why didn't you use breakfast meat or supper meat?"
Wife ... doesn't answer.

So you see, this is a weak form of companionship. The only person who laughs at my inane jokes is me.

 

[BigApplePi]

... at this point, I just want someone to be part of my life and share the journey with me. It gets old being in my own head all the time, and doing things alone, even if there is a benefit of flexibility and freedom from having only one person to accommodate.

I just read recently that one doesn't have to have a "soulmate" as a spouse." There are many out there that are available as "serviceable spouses." The trick is to get one's own self straight.

I know what you mean by being in one's own head all the time. That's partly why I'm post in the internet. But it's more complicated than that. If there were two of me and we were exactly alike, I could still split up the activities and one of us could turn into two beings and that would be enough to not be in one's own head all the time. ... Does this make any sense? <--- needs more thought.

 

[BitRogue]

So you see, this is a weak form of companionship. The only person who laughs at my inane jokes is me.

So I have to ask, do you feel alone when this happens? As in - you were feeling quite jovial at the time, there was an obvious snotty reply just screaming to be said, and once said you could both share a laugh with each other. But it never came, and thus you felt possibly a little sad or despondent, even if you probably did shrug it aside almost instantaneously, since I assume you'd probably be used to your wife's reactions by now.

 

[BigApplePi]

BitRogue. When I related that interchange I did not present the context of either the moment or of ~25 years of marriage. (I didn't even try). However your reaction is interesting.

So I have to ask, do you feel alone when this happens?

No. I think the mood was, "Hello." Ours paths crossed in the same room together. I recognize we are cooperating in sharing the lunch time experience even if only for a minute or so.

As in - you were feeling quite jovial at the time, there was an obvious snotty reply just screaming to be said, and once said you could both share a laugh with each other.

I felt neutral. I was multi-tasking at the time and still am. You said, "obvious." What was obvious? Share a laugh? I don't recall saying that.

But it never came, and thus you felt possibly a little sad or despondent, even if you probably did shrug it aside almost instantaneously, since I assume you'd probably be used to your wife's reactions by now.

The object is to get her to laugh. Maybe one time in five if I'm lucky. Despondent? I'd be in deep doo-doo if I was. She understands me by now and I her ... as far as behavior goes, if not the jokes. ... but not always.

 

[Yet]

I am 40 years old now ... how am I getting on in life?
ehm...

As for the home front I am lucky. My partner does get my jokes, even the really insane 'out of the box' ones They just pop up & we have a bit of fun over it. He's an INTJ I think ... but has a bit of INTP as well. He also understands me most of the time when I am into something & we share our ideas. My daughter is an INTP & we get along very fine, we understand each other well & can talk about everything really.

For an outsider I think the way my daughter and I have conversations is extremely weird. From whenever she was a little kid & into astronomy, star constellations. I recall asking her when she was 15 when we went shopping for something in town how she dealt with the scientific facts versus religious ideas humanity has... or she pops up in the house & she starts going on about some sort of theoretical physics subject and wants my thoughts about this or that ... when she was a kid she did things like storm down the stairs & declair that finally she found someone on a chat (internet) who does agree with her that people created God instead of the other way around .... I am quite happy in my home surroundings.

As for work I get very frustrated sometimes. You just bump your head into walls of not understanding people or people who think you're being rude when you're only trying to figure out the essence/ priorities/ which course to follow etc. It is amazing how defensive people are, how insecure and full of emo-stuff.
But I hang on to the good bits of my job (there are monthly bills and they just need to be payed... n'est c'est pas) , even though it is sometimes boring when you have to do something you have done before. I seriously just 'wake up' for new and intruiging bits that come along to be worked out, or when I have brainfarts that are worth exploring (just the getting accross is hard sometimes).

I have friends I have a click with. But I am not a very regular friend. We meet now and again. b.t.w: long live the world wide web... that gave me a chance to meet more people in real life I connect with.

 

[BitRogue]

No. I think the mood was, "Hello." Ours paths crossed in the same room together. I recognize we are cooperating in sharing the lunch time experience even if only for a minute or so.

No, I meant alone, as in you were the only one in on the joke.

I felt neutral. I was multi-tasking at the time and still am. You said, "obvious." What was obvious? Share a laugh? I don't recall saying that.

The expected response which never came.

The object is to get her to laugh. Maybe one time in five if I'm lucky. Despondent? I'd be in deep doo-doo if I was. She understands me by now and I her ... as far as behavior goes, if not the jokes. ... but not always.

Fair enough, the way I played it in my head, I imagined a more humorous, if not one sided, interchange. I have that when I meet people, I just throw snap literals into a conversation thats expected to be taken figuratively and see what peoples reactions are and whether they're paying attention. Im always hoping for a quick comeback but they rarely do. Some get it but they're either laughing too hard to respond or I get an inane rebuff to stop being so silly. The response I'm REALLY looking for is a very unphazed reply building off what I just said but even more inane and sillier. But so much funnier at the same time. Only a few close friends do that and I have only met a handful of girls who are like that. Its a bit of a litmus test whereby there is no wrong answer but tells me a lot about the people Im talking to.

Way off topic now I guess.

 

[Jennywocky]

I just read recently that one doesn't have to have a "soulmate" as a spouse." There are many out there that are available as "serviceable spouses." The trick is to get one's own self straight.

Yes, I think "soulmate" is overrated. There is no "best" person in the world waiting for you. And the last guy I dated was probably as much a soulmate as I'll ever find, but the relationship was lacking in other ways.

And I've alluded to how familiarity can sometimes breed love and affection as well, framed by a shared history.

I know what you mean by being in one's own head all the time. That's partly why I'm post in the internet. But it's more complicated than that. If there were two of me and we were exactly alike, I could still split up the activities and one of us could turn into two beings and that would be enough to not be in one's own head all the time. ... Does this make any sense? <--- needs more thought.

I follow what you're saying, but I need help understanding why you are saying it.

Fair enough, the way I played it in my head, I imagined a more humorous, if not one sided, interchange. I have that when I meet people, I just throw snap literals into a conversation thats expected to be taken figuratively and see what peoples reactions are and whether they're paying attention. Im always hoping for a quick comeback but they rarely do. Some get it but they're either laughing too hard to respond or I get an inane rebuff to stop being so silly. The response I'm REALLY looking for is a very unphazed reply building off what I just said but even more inane and sillier. But so much funnier at the same time. Only a few close friends do that and I have only met a handful of girls who are like that. Its a bit of a litmus test whereby there is no wrong answer but tells me a lot about the people Im talking to.

Kind of a perverse INTP-flavored non-pictorial Rorshach? ("Sex? No, I saw two bunnies participating in a political talk show hosted by Groucho Marx in a knee-length shift. Was that wrong of me?")

Anyway, I identify with that -- it forms the interactions between me and my closest friends. We like to take what just got said and spin it / throw a twist on it, and it's obvious that all of us see the various ways the comment could have been read and are just seeking to take it in the best direction.

No, not a lot of people are that fast.

 

[BigApplePi]

Yes, I think "soulmate" is overrated. There is no "best" person in the world waiting for you. And the last guy I dated was probably as much a soulmate as I'll ever find, but the relationship was lacking in other ways.

BAP: I know what you mean by being in one's own head all the time. That's partly why I post in the internet. But it's more complicated than that. If there were two of me and we were exactly alike, I could still split up the activities and one of us could turn into two beings and that would be enough to not be in one's own head all the time. ... Does this make any sense? <--- needs more thought.

I follow what you're saying, but I need help understanding why you are saying it.

Why am I saying it? Two reasons. Bear with me so I can try to explain it.

(1) It isn't that we need another person who is different from us, though that is nice. It's that being alone with ourselves disallows us ever getting a perspective unless we take a vacation from ourselves sometime. The fantasy of having two selves allows one self to be in a physically different place. Two people. Separate places. This is enough to gain perspective when one looks at the other and breaks any "aloneness." We just need another person ... or rather another person comes in handy. Does this help?

(2) The other reason is I stole the idea from a film I saw a few years ago. I loved the idea. The was a very harried man (played by a comedy actor whose name escapes me as well as the name of the film). He couldn't handle all the chores he had to do in his life. He solved his problem ... or tried to ... by splitting himself into 8 characters of himself all played by the same actor: chore doer, lover, neighbor, cook, job, etc. It made me want to continue the fantasy but have the film done better. Anyone seen it?

 

[BitRogue]

(2) The other reason is I stole the idea from a film I saw a few years ago. I loved the idea. The was a very harried man (played by a comedy actor whose name escapes me as well as the name of the film). He couldn't handle all the chores he had to do in his life. He solved his problem ... or tried to ... by splitting himself into 8 characters of himself all played by the same actor: chore doer, lover, neighbor, cook, job, etc. It made me want to continue the fantasy but have the film done better. Anyone seen it?

Multiplicity with Michael Keaton?

 

[BigApplePi]

Multiplicity with Michael Keaton?

Yep! Thank you very much.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117108/

 

[Haiduc]

The thing missing most in my life is what I call companionship. I don't need a girl to help me out in any other area, ie to look after me, cook, clean, pay the bills - I can do them all for myself and I think its very two dimensional to have these as sole requirements for a mate. No, what Id very much like is to find that person who I can actually live life with. In the early years, my friends were those people, but they have moved on. I think a long term romantic relationship for me would be ideal, but in a way where she serves as both romantic partner and friend / partner in crime, so to speak. A relationship like this would last forever because its based on an attraction which never ages, unlike the flesh. There really should be no need to date for short stints to satisfy short term 'phases'. The exception being to actually learn about yourself and find out what works or doesn't work for you.

I don't know that expecting something like this would be a fallacy, certainly someone checking all our checkboxes for desired requirements in a mate is unfeasible, but then, even our closest friends are not perfect.

I agree with what others have said. This is pretty much on the money for me too. I have good friends that I can relax around and talk shit with, people who are still up for doing all the stupid things you do in your 20s. However, they're all getting married, and kids aren't too far off the horizon.

At the moment, I'm fairly lucky (if I think about it) in that my social calendar probably has enough to keep me going. But I could quite easily see myself in a similar situation to you. And I think I'm also looking for the same thing. Just recently I've been wondering how likely it is I'll find it. And, following on from that, whether I'm ok with not finding it. But then again what's the alternative?

Are we happy with the possiblity that we could live the rest of our lives 'alone'? Everyone in my family is married. I have no idea what the alternative looks like.

 

[xbox]

I'm turning 25 soon and feel old. And parents sometimes get angry at me saying " you could have been married by now, I could have had grandchildren by now." blah blah b'ah

 

[Haiduc]

Anyway, I identify with that -- it forms the interactions between me and my closest friends. We like to take what just got said and spin it / throw a twist on it, and it's obvious that all of us see the various ways the comment could have been read and are just seeking to take it in the best direction.

No, not a lot of people are that fast.

Same here. Or we'll throw in random, often politically incorrect, non-sequiturs, which, in its own, is very relieving to do as a non-feeler, because it's probably the way I would prefer to talk all the time. I guess it's also the Ne firing off in different directions.

And no, a lot of people aren't always that fast to come back at you, but you can still make them laugh when you're making random connections over whatever's been said. I find that reaction rewarding.

 

[Haiduc]

I suggest showing her this page: http://homepage.mac.com/bahlberg/iblog/B1386252977/C707866389/E447100039/index.html

Yeah, I've seen that before. So what does an INTP's partner get out if! It seems like we're a pretty demanding bunch!!

To me, that highlights one of the main dilemnas I've had since discovering MBTI. How much do you adapt your world? How much do you adapt to it?

Now I know I'm an INTP, and that it's perfectly ok to be that way, it's tempting to unlearn all the useful behaviours I've picked up over the years and act like an un-feeling INTP dick.

For balance -- an maybe there's one out there -- it would be useful to have a version of that page from the opposite perspective. That is, how an INTP can go out of their way to give a little back to their partner.

(Just don't ask me to write it!)

 

[Haiduc]

I am 40 years old now ... how am I getting on in life?
ehm...

As for the home front I am lucky. My partner does get my jokes, even the really insane 'out of the box' ones They just pop up & we have a bit of fun over it. He's an INTJ I think ... but has a bit of INTP as well. He also understands me most of the time when I am into something & we share our ideas. My daughter is an INTP & we get along very fine, we understand each other well & can talk about everything really.

For an outsider I think the way my daughter and I have conversations is extremely weird. From whenever she was a little kid & into astronomy, star constellations. I recall asking her when she was 15 when we went shopping for something in town how she dealt with the scientific facts versus religious ideas humanity has... or she pops up in the house & she starts going on about some sort of theoretical physics subject and wants my thoughts about this or that ... when she was a kid she did things like storm down the stairs & declair that finally she found someone on a chat (internet) who does agree with her that people created God instead of the other way around .... I am quite happy in my home surroundings.

As for work I get very frustrated sometimes. You just bump your head into walls of not understanding people or people who think you're being rude when you're only trying to figure out the essence/ priorities/ which course to follow etc. It is amazing how defensive people are, how insecure and full of emo-stuff.
But I hang on to the good bits of my job (there are monthly bills and they just need to be payed... n'est c'est pas) , even though it is sometimes boring when you have to do something you have done before. I seriously just 'wake up' for new and intruiging bits that come along to be worked out, or when I have brainfarts that are worth exploring (just the getting accross is hard sometimes).

I have friends I have a click with. But I am not a very regular friend. We meet now and again. b.t.w: long live the world wide web... that gave me a chance to meet more people in real life I connect with.

That sounds pretty cool. And two INTP females in the same family! That's got to be pretty unusual.

On your last point, I think the internet's great for introverted non-feelers. You don't have to worry about looking interested -- in fact you don't even need to acknowledge people -- and you just say what you think. And if you do say something hideously offensive, it doesn't really have any impact on anything.

It's just a shame work isn't more like that...

 

[boondockbabe]

On your last point, I think the internet's great for introverted non-feelers. You don't have to worry about looking interested -- in fact you don't even need to acknowledge people -- and you just say what you think. And if you do say something hideously offensive, it doesn't really have any impact on anything.

It's just a shame work isn't more like that...

Aren't there ANY JOBS out there like this?
I don't really like people in a face to face situation.Unless I'm in charge. but then I don't like the responsibility.

 

[BigApplePi]

On your last point, I think the internet's great for introverted non-feelers. You don't have to worry about looking interested -- in fact you don't even need to acknowledge people -- and you just say what you think. And if you do say something hideously offensive, it doesn't really have any impact on anything.

Don't agree. The difference is INVOLVEMENT. If one is an introverted non-feeler, and there is mutual thinking going on, rudeness would matter.

 

[digital angel]

I'm not totally sure to be honest. I probably need to spend some time thinking through how I can achieve some sustainable kind of happiness/fulfillment.

I'd quite like to have my own place, so I should probably factor that into the equation. Beyond that, as long as there's sport on the tv and bacon in fridge, I might just be ok. One thing I have been thinking about is whether I'm ok with the possiblity of spending my life without a significant other. If I'm not, then I guess I should make more of a concerted effort to do something about it...

You certainly don't have to figure it all out now, unless you want to. Being with a significant other is great if that's what you want. If you do, get out there and meet people. If you don't want it, that's ok, too.

I've been married before and have been happily single for many years now. I like being single...I enjoy the freedom. I'm a tax attorney, by the way.

 

[digital angel]

Don't agree. The difference is INVOLVEMENT. If one is an introverted non-feeler, and there is mutual thinking going on, rudeness would matter.

I agree with BigApplePi.