Brutal Mafia. Anyone interested?

[QuickTwist]

Blue roles often play deliberately scummy so that mafia don't NK them. Mafia often NK the people who seem hard to lynch (aka the very Town people) so by appearing scummier than usual a blue role gets off the NK radar and also knows they can either roleclaim and bait a mafia or avoid being lynched themselves.

It's a fine line to tread to be not targeted by either the Town or Mafia.

That may work in theory, acting scummy on purpose, but it doesn't work so when in an actual game. Its just an unnecessarily risky strategy that could get you lynched. Things can snowball rather quickly so you really have no control on if you get lynched by playing scummy on purpose.. I mean what would you do to accomplish this? Think about it, if everyone acts townie it gives a smaller chance that you will be NKed. That's why town should act like town. Granted, sometimes its good for PR to vary their style so they don't get NKed or lynched but playing scummy on purpose is not a viable option.

I talked to the first place winner of the 2015 Mafia Championships about optimal Cop strategy and they basically said you should play just as any other VT in terms of Scummyness.

 

[PmjPmj]

Ok, so how would people feel about this sort of setup? This is not set in stone - challenge it, re-define it. This is your game; I'm just the dude hosting it for you.

11 players

7Vanilla Town
1 Vigilante (can kill anyone at any time; no need to wait for the night - one kill only - retains ability if turned)
1 Guardian Angel OR Seer(you choose!)
1 Wolf
1 Infectious Wolf (can turn 1 person during any night cycle. Only 1 person can be turned for the duration of the game)

among that (so still the original 11 players)

1 Wildcard.

The wildcard would not know who they were; it would be a potential trigger-ability during day 1/night 1 to give one side or another a slight leg-up - but nothing game breaking.

Hypothetical: the Infectious Wolf is lyched during day 1 (maybe Hado landed the role ). That'd be a shit show for the wolves... or more aptly, 'wolf'. A measure would be put in place to guard against this eventuality. For example, 'one of the Vanilla Town was related to the IW, and the curse gets passed on during the night cycle - but sans the ability to infect', or something akin to that.

It could be pre-assigned, or picked randomly.

Just one idea of a few.

Thoughts?

General Structure:

Game starts when you guys choose: I can work with your TimeZones.

Day 1: 24 hours from kick-off
Night Cycle: Complete when all Night Actions are in (could be minutes; could be hours - ooh, the suspense!)
Day 2 onwards: 24 hours from Night Cycle completion.

Again, this game is supposed to be fast, and rather frantic. A bloodbath is encouraged. OC is encouraged (just keep logs, so we can enjoy at a later date). I can look in to QTs and stuff like that.

Bear in mind: I haven't hosted one of these before, so I *greatly* appreciate input.

How does that sound? Any ideas? Have I failed to consider something and potentially broken the game before it begins? Have at it!

 

[Reluctantly]

Again, this game is supposed to be fast, and rather frantic. A bloodbath is encouraged. OC is encouraged (just keep logs, so we can enjoy at a later date). I can look in to QTs and stuff like that.

What does bloodbath mean? Is everyone going to go around cursing and calling each other retarded pieces of shit or something?

 

[PmjPmj]

Ha ha, probably not to that extent! But equally, I'm not doing to discourage aggressive play. Ultimately, you can play it however the heck you want - but note that the filters are most definitely off.

Sinny will probably revel in it. As would I, were I playing.

Of course, it's important to note that it is a game, and nothing should be taken personally.

 

[QuickTwist]

Ok, so how would people feel about this sort of setup? This is not set in stone - challenge it, re-define it. This is your game; I'm just the dude hosting it for you.

11 players

7Vanilla Town
1 Vigilante (can kill anyone at any time; no need to wait for the night - one kill only - retains ability if turned)
1 Guardian Angel OR Seer(you choose!)
1 Wolf
1 Infectious Wolf (can turn 1 person during any night cycle. Only 1 person can be turned for the duration of the game)

among that (so still the original 11 players)

1 Wildcard.

The wildcard would not know who they were; it would be a potential trigger-ability during day 1/night 1 to give one side or another a slight leg-up - but nothing game breaking.

Hypothetical: the Infectious Wolf is lyched during day 1 (maybe Hado landed the role ). That'd be a shit show for the wolves... or more aptly, 'wolf'. A measure would be put in place to guard against this eventuality. For example, 'one of the Vanilla Town was related to the IW, and the curse gets passed on during the night cycle - but sans the ability to infect', or something akin to that.

It could be pre-assigned, or picked randomly.

Just one idea of a few.

Thoughts?

General Structure:

Game starts when you guys choose: I can work with your TimeZones.

Day 1: 24 hours from kick-off
Night Cycle: Complete when all Night Actions are in (could be minutes; could be hours - ooh, the suspense!)
Day 2 onwards: 24 hours from Night Cycle completion.

Again, this game is supposed to be fast, and rather frantic. A bloodbath is encouraged. OC is encouraged (just keep logs, so we can enjoy at a later date). I can look in to QTs and stuff like that.

Bear in mind: I haven't hosted one of these before, so I *greatly* appreciate input.

How does that sound? Any ideas? Have I failed to consider something and potentially broken the game before it begins? Have at it!

Turning someone is unbelievably OP. Aside from some sites considering this a bastard role, I feel it would give Mafia an unfair advantage. I might look into Traitor and scrap the wildcard idea.

What is the Guardian Angel? (Oh, wait, is that Doc?)

Games that change alignments of people are usually better suited for large games (meaning 14 or more players).

Last thing to add.. I would just make the Infectious Wolf a RBer.

Alternatively, you could make the game a Cult game and instead of a NK the Cultists recruit people. That way, Cultists can win if the game goes on long enough recruiting a member of Town every day. Along with this, I might make the second original cult member a backup Cultist leader, so that if the cultist dies, the second original cult member takes their place. Every one after that though, is just a regular cult member unless they are a PR who gets recruited. The thing is, there is still a Vig, so people still die at night.

I'll let Spacelog comment on this if he wants.

 

[PmjPmj]

Is turning someone still OP when the wolves start so badly on the back foot?

What about if we simply start with the infectious wolf on his/her own, and scrap the wildcard?

Not sure about the cultist idea. I like the finality of NKs and lynches

 

[PmjPmj]

Update:

IN
xbox
Sinny
Hado
RB
Spaceblog
Reluctantly

Maybe
Yellow (after the 26th?)
Cheese ("interested")
Puffy

CheesumMcPuffface - are you in, out or shaking it all about?

 

[QuickTwist]

Is turning someone still OP when the wolves start so badly on the back foot?

What about if we simply start with the infectious wolf on his/her own, and scrap the wildcard?

Not sure about the cultist idea. I like the finality of NKs and lynches

That's why I suggested Traitor and RBer for Mafia. 2 Mafia to start and a Mafia Traitor should be right in line with a balanced game for this amount of people playing.

The idea of a Mafia member that recruits is not terrible, but the numbers for this game are a little wonky to have that. Generally its considered good form to have 3 Mafia in a 13 player game and 4 in a 17 player game and 2 in a 9 player game. That said, you have 11 so traitor is right up the ally of the kind of role you should have giving 3 Mafia total. The thing tho, is that adding a townie to be Mafia is a lot stronger than even just starting with 3 mafia.

IDK about starting the game with 11 players where a faction can win day 1. Just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[PmjPmj]

Let's see how many people we get and go from there, then. Happy to balance it as the more experienced players see fit.

I did want the wolves to be somewhat on the back-foot, but I don't want it to be a shit and unfair game either.

 

[Shapelog]

As long as it is still a PM game, idk about the balance.

PM games are so fucking fun as you can trick individual players, or anyone for that matter, and make them do your bidding.

And BM, Good ole BM.

 

[Cheeseumpuffs]

CheesumMcPuffface - are you in, out or shaking it all about?

I'm another maybe ("interested").

It depends on my work schedule and all that fun stuff whenever it is that the game is going to be starting.

 

[cheese]

Shapelog, what's BM? It's the one term I haven't been able to work out.

 

[Helvete]

Bat man. Definitely not bad manners.

 

[Helvete]

Lol wrong thread and wrong context so ignore that... I would assume its just brutal mafia

 

[QuickTwist]

Vote: Helvete

Obvious Scum is obvious.

 

[Shapelog]

Means I am going to Cut your dinosaur head off and put it over my fire place.
Troll Shape is best Shape

Spoiler

Basically, do to this:

Want to chat via PM? Go for it (just keep logs so we can enjoy it later). Want to shit-talk another player? Encouraged. All balls must be at least swinging free, or 150% to the wall. Those failing to assert themselves will be cut down mercilessly (mod-killed if there is little to no activity within a 24 hour period - regardless of previous contributions. Technical issues obviously aside).

I am going to be super agressive, and Huk BM you.

(Huk BM is funny BM)

 

[PmjPmj]

I'll create a signup post in the relevant thread over the weekend. We can tweak the rules to accommodate however many players we get.

Ja?

 

[xbox]

When is this game starting?

 

[PmjPmj]

Shall we aim for this weekend, or next?

Speak to me, people!

 

[Helvete]

Might be in. Which post number should I read for most likely set up, only kinda less than skim read so far

 

[PmjPmj]

http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?p=538512#post538512

 

[Minuend]

Depends on when you'll play. If you start within two weeks, I might join. But from around the 27th and maybe a week into aug I will probably be too busy.

 

[PmjPmj]

I'd hope for an earlier start than that. I guess we'll have to see what the ladies and gents here want.

 

[ika]

i like the infectious wolf but number wise you need to have players that are immune (the seer and vig and wildcard).

i just read up on meta arguments and role claiming:

meta arguments: are vaild in itself. your using known info to say thing. weather they are right or wrong is another thing entirely. its like going to a library to search up a game

role claiming: i dont get why its not allowed. i mean as long as there are more vts then prs they should be allowed to claim unless if i missed something in my skim through. i mean game 2 we have 1v1. its scums job if up for lynch to try to fish out prs

that being said i might in as well as silverwolf. we are undecided right now.

 

[Yellow]

I can actually start sooner than I expected. Starting now or soonish would work for me if you can get enough people to join.

 

[PmjPmj]

i like the infectious wolf but number wise you need to have players that are immune (the seer and vig and wildcard).

i just read up on meta arguments and role claiming:

meta arguments: are vaild in itself. your using known info to say thing. weather they are right or wrong is another thing entirely. its like going to a library to search up a game

role claiming: i dont get why its not allowed. i mean as long as there are more vts then prs they should be allowed to claim unless if i missed something in my skim through. i mean game 2 we have 1v1. its scums job if up for lynch to try to fish out prs

that being said i might in as well as silverwolf. we are undecided right now.

I've updated the rules dude. Check the signup thread.

 

[ika]

it doesnt explain why role claim isnt allowed unless if i missed something obvious, i would make the "infected" have a rolecard that if both of ther other WW die (or the infected wolf maybe) that the infected dies as well (or reverts back)

if your allowing OGC, role claiming is a lot more intresting cus sevral people could be claiming to be the same role.

also if anyone has intrest in playing a gam eim modding i am in need of replacments. pm me for info

 

[Reluctantly]

This game:

 

[PmjPmj]

Yeah. Maybe people prefer the vanilla style.

 

[Yellow]

It's possible that people are mafia'd out too. Hard to say. Have you messaged people who said they were in here but not in the sign up thread?

 

[PmjPmj]

Not yet. The start time was kinda vague because I knew people would be all over the place.

I'll chase people up when I get a few mins.

 

[The Gopher]

That may work in theory, acting scummy on purpose, but it doesn't work so when in an actual game. Its just an unnecessarily risky strategy that could get you lynched. Things can snowball rather quickly so you really have no control on if you get lynched by playing scummy on purpose.. I mean what would you do to accomplish this? Think about it, if everyone acts townie it gives a smaller chance that you will be NKed. That's why town should act like town. Granted, sometimes its good for PR to vary their style so they don't get NKed or lynched but playing scummy on purpose is not a viable option.

I talked to the first place winner of the 2015 Mafia Championships about optimal Cop strategy and they basically said you should play just as any other VT in terms of Scummyness.

Well yes. However life is more complicated than this you need to consider the circumstances and personalities in the game. Everyone is going to act town in a championship game and if he dies there are plenty other good town players. That said I admit I could be biased by anecdotal evidence since the only time it hasn't worked for me is in the game where I was Doctor. (In that game based on mafia chat it was the right idea just executed poorly.) I could be wrong though feel free to correct me it just seems if you can pull it off with minimal risk there is no reason to not do it. You just need to act scummy to mafia but act town to town. You don't need to know who they are they both pick up on different things.

/in as a spectator. I would like to save my arm for things other than just mafia.

 

[Sinny91]

It's possible that people are mafia'd out too. Hard to say. Have you messaged people who said they were in here but not in the sign up thread?

I'm was/am mafiad out.. Could not just jump straight into another...

This one seems to be taking a while to develop tho, might switch from Replacement to Player, depending when it looks like the game is starting.

 

[Minuend]

I'm waiting to see when the game will take place. Don't want to sign in, then have to sign out. more messy that way.

 

[redbaron]

I'm happy to play if more players.

I'm playing in 3 other games off-site anyway, but I guess other people here want things to be easier. I thought of hosting another game here when one of my other games finishes.

Tbh I think the insane levels of activity/participation here have ruined the long-term potential of mafia here. It's like people think the game is some ultimate time-consuming debate-fest, when it doesn't really need to be that way.

 

[Jennywocky]

Tbh I think the insane levels of activity/participation here have ruined the long-term potential of mafia here. It's like people think the game is some ultimate time-consuming debate-fest, when it doesn't really need to be that way.

Yeah, I got pretty tired of having to explain any momentary absence and/or why I wasn't posting enough material... it just seems to drift back in that direction, people get quizzed and challenged on those kinds of things.

So it felt like more time than I had, reasonably.

 

[Hadoblado]

Uni started and I'm shitting myself too much to commit to anything. No way I could keep up with uni even speccing a mafia game. Self-control is zero.

I agree with RB kinda, in that people are probably worn down and have unrealistic expectations of what mafia should look like. Not necessarily in that the long-term potential for mafia here is limited.

If I'm honest, most of the stuff people post I would prefer them not to post. Cos it's unconvincing. It comes from a place of 'I need to think up some thoughts to post in order to look town', rather than 'I need to post the thoughts that I have because then we will catch scum'. Obvious hypocrisy aside, it makes erryone look like scum while also stressing them all out, exhausting them.

I think I've been a terrible teacher in this, because I've been focusing on my own shenanigans and not really thinking about what example I'm setting. It also doesn't help that the only people here to teach are also playing, so all lessons are held in suspicion instead of being taken for what they are. Maybe we should set up a town coach?

 

[PmjPmj]

I'm happy to go with the flow, guys. If you decide you want to leave it for now, cool. If you decide that you'd rather concentrate on vanilla mafia - cool. I can also host one of those, if you'd prefer. Or someone else can host.

All good

 

[xbox]

I thought this was the sign up thread tbh

 

[redbaron]

Why not just do:

3 Wolves.
1 Seer
9x Vanilla

Then people don't have to worry about complex mechanics. Also I concur that Hado is a terrible example of Town play. Not because he's a terrible player, but because he plays gimmick strategies which are overall okay in a game of players who all know what's going on but in newbie games are bad.

I'm happy to take role of Town coach btw, I'm in my 6th game off-site currently, so I've roughly caught up to Gopher/Hado's level of experience. Plus I've won 2 games as scum so I figure I know what Towns ought to be doing if they want to catch people in the space where scum hide.

Or I can just play but if I roll scum again that's annoying really.

That said, run game however you want and I'll play. I just want people to be not-scared of the game.