Brent Spiner's "Fresh Hell" series

[AureliaSeverina]

Have any of you guys watched this?
http://www.freshhellseries.com/home/category/video/

It's a free-to-watch sitcom by Brent Spiner (although he calls it a sit-trag). He plays himself after his career has been ruined by "the incident".
I stumbled upon it yesterday and found it hilarious. And he's such an INTP, too

 

[Architect]

Have any of you guys watched this?
http://www.freshhellseries.com/home/category/video/

Interesting

It's a free-to-watch sitcom by Brent Spiner (although he calls it a sit-trag). He plays himself after his career has been ruined by "the incident".
I stumbled upon it yesterday and found it hilarious.

Hm, I'm not finding it too funny. The penis scene was a high point (I haven't seen all of them yet). Seems a little self obsessed, even though it's trying to be funny. You know it reminds me of that STNG episode where Data goes into the Holodeck to practice comedy.

And he's such an INTP, too

Really, why do you say that? Compare to Larry David, who after much study I'm convinced is an INTP. He also created a comedy show (Curb Your Enthusiasm) after a successful show (Seinfeld)

 

[AureliaSeverina]

Interesting



Hm, I'm not finding it too funny. The penis scene was a high point (I haven't seen all of them yet). Seems a little self obsessed, even though it's trying to be funny. You know it reminds me of that STNG episode where Data goes into the Holodeck to practice comedy.

I like the way he makes fun of himself. OK, this isn't obvious from the show itself, but there's a T-Shirt that says "At least I'm not Brent Spiner" and he wears it himself at cons.
Also, the character develops later on and says that he's been too self-obsessed and should be happy that he's got friends etc.
I like it how he's cranky and goes on about how everybody hates him. Assuming that he is indeed an INTP that could be an inferior Fe thing. Yeah... I guess if there was a comedy about an INTJ being plagued by inferior Se or an Ni-Fi loop, I wouldn't find it very funny (being an INTJ myself).
I agree that it's not very sophisticated, but I guess I just like lame trashy stuff I'm easily amused
My INTP friend has a similar sense of humour (without the self absorption). He'll just say something that isn't really that funny in a lame but subtle way and you're free to find it funny but it's not over the top. With some people you can tell that they expect you to find them incredibly funny but they're just over the top and mainly laugh at their own jokes.

Really, why do you say that? Compare to Larry David, who after much study I'm convinced is an INTP. He also created a comedy show (Curb Your Enthusiasm) after a successful show (Seinfeld)

I'm saying that based off some interviews that I saw (and also keirsey.com claims he's an INTP). I'll admit I'm going by the unscientific method of comparing his mannerisms with those of INTPs I know in real life.
I'll check out Curb Your Enthusiasm later.

 

[Turniphead]

I'm with Architect...

It's almost painful to watch.

 

[AureliaSeverina]

Urgh? I'm trying to watch "Top 10 Curb Your Enthusiasm" moments on youtube.... er.... to much shouting and people talking over each other.

 

[Architect]

When I first watched Curb I couldn't watch it without wincing due to the shouting and cursing. The way LD does the show is that he has a sketch and the actors improv off of that. Especially early on it was like they weren't quite in the groove yet and ended up in big shouting matches because they weren't coming up with any better lines. After a season or two they got a hang of it.

Stick with it, and I recommend watching the full episodes, not compilations. He is definitely an INTP. It's hard to type public figures, and I've only got a small handful of ones I'm sure of.

I don't know about Brent Spinar. His STNG character (Data) is mentioned as an INTP which is ridiculous. People see a logical character and immediately think INTP. Data is some combination of INTP, ISTJ and INTJ, in other words nobody real. Same goes for Vulcans and 7 of 9. Now as to how that turned into Brent being an INTP I'm not sure, I don't see a strong correlation there, but it could be.

 

[AureliaSeverina]

Really, why do you say that? Compare to Larry David, who after much study I'm convinced is an INTP. He also created a comedy show (Curb Your Enthusiasm) after a successful show (Seinfeld)

Hum ... @Architect, just to be argumentative: Got any arguments against Brent Spiner being an INTP? What else could he be?
ISTP?
INFP?
ISFP?
INTJ?
I ...?
E.....?
some kind of jerk

I'm genuinely interested because I'm not sure I know any ISTPs, ISFPs or INFPs in real life.

 

[AureliaSeverina]

When I first watched Curb I couldn't watch it without wincing due to the shouting and cursing. The way LD does the show is that he has a sketch and the actors improv off of that. Especially early on it was like they weren't quite in the groove yet and ended up in big shouting matches because they weren't coming up with any better lines. After a season or two they got a hang of it.

Stick with it, and I recommend watching the full episodes, not compilations. He is definitely an INTP. It's hard to type public figures, and I've only got a small handful of ones I'm sure of.

I don't know about Brent Spinar. His STNG character (Data) is mentioned as an INTP which is ridiculous. People see a logical character and immediately think INTP. Data is some combination of INTP, ISTJ and INTJ, in other words nobody real. Same goes for Vulcans and 7 of 9. Now as to how that turned into Brent being an INTP I'm not sure, I don't see a strong correlation there, but it could be.

OK, I'll try to find a full episode another time.

Yeah, I agree with Data and the Vulcans being a mix of types.
Brent (not in the show, in interviews) seems to me like an INTP who gets a bit cranky and patronizing because of too much exposure to the public. I think he wants to entertain people, but he's not really comfortable with the attention. He's kinda overcompensating. But I'm only basing that off his mannerisms really.
Watch him on this con panel, he's physically squirming and does some repetitive, exaggerated, robotic gestures. All the INTPs I know do this to some extent. To me he looks like he's dying of social awkwardness, even though he comes across as funny and confident. (I find all of this dead cute for some reason.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9zZYfCB70w

 

[Architect]

Hum ... @Architect, just to be argumentative: Got any arguments against Brent Spiner being an INTP? What else could he be?
ISTP?
INFP?
ISFP?
INTJ?
I ...?
E.....?
some kind of jerk

Well to be fair it's your bailiwick to demonstrate that he's INTP; I'm not claiming that he's not and I'm not a Brent Spiner expert To really show he is we should see evidence of Ti primarily, Ne & Si, with a distant Fe goal in his life.

I'm genuinely interested because I'm not sure I know any ISTPs, ISFPs or INFPs in real life.

I've known two for sure INFP's (he's not), many ISTP's (he might be), and many ISFP's (he could be)

 

[AureliaSeverina]

Well to be fair it's your bailiwick to demonstrate that he's INTP; I'm not claiming that he's not and I'm not a Brent Spiner expert To really show he is we should see evidence of Ti primarily, Ne & Si, with a distant Fe goal in his life.



I've known two for sure INFP's (he's not), many ISTP's (he might be), and many ISFP's (he could be)

Yeah, I guess that's the main problem with actors: they all get induced to talk the same kind of trash about how awesome they are or some crap about their show. So it's hard to catch any cognitive functions. Hum..... I've seen this longish interview where he's relatively relaxed, I'll study it in detail again just to practice my typing skills.
Hum.. he does say though that he doesn't do much and mainly sleeps, which makes sense because he's older. LOL. INTP "laziness" backed up with Ti logic? Also, he tells some guys at a con not to ask their questions in the afternoon panel if they're gonna be there in the evening to ask them, because that would be redundant.!!!

Crap, I'm gonna have to identify some real life ISTPs and ISFPs. Not sure how I'm gonna do this because I need a confirmed member of each species so I can go by analogy. I do know a guy who fits the ISTP profile (mainly because he doesn't fit anything else), but on the other hand, he's not similar to an INTP at all.

Ah, sorry I'm taking this so seriously, I'm just trying to get better at typing people and I can't just ask colleagues etc. "Hey are you an XYZ?"

edit to add: thanks for narrowing down what type he could (not) be

 

[Lot]

I've been watching this show for a while. I've been waiting for the third season to start up.

Also, Brent is really an attention whore at conventions. I'd go with extrovert.

 

[AureliaSeverina]

I've been watching this show for a while. I've been waiting for the third season to start up.

Also, Brent is really an attention whore at conventions. I'd go with extrovert.

Yeah, I'm waiting for the third season, too.
I've never been to a con, but I watched some on youtube and yes "attention whore" captures it quite well. But I know some INTPs who can hijack a conversation quite well and tell their little anecdotes.

Sooooooo, what species of extrovert would he be? This is getting really interesting now

 

[Lot]

Sooooooo, what species of extrovert would he be? This is getting really interesting now

He could be like an ENFP or ESFP. I've known some very bright and theatrically minded people of those types. ENTP is also on the table for me. His character in the show is more of an introvert, though. In fact, he plays a lot of introverts. Either way I think he's a great actor.

 

[AureliaSeverina]

He could be like an ENFP or ESFP. I've known some very bright and theatrically minded people of those types. ENTP is also on the table for me. His character in the show is more of an introvert, though. In fact, he plays a lot of introverts. Either way I think he's a great actor.

He sure is And it would probably be easier for an extrovert to play introverts than the other way round. I've enlisted an INTP and some ISFPs and ISTPs on personalitycafe to analyse an interview with him. Let's see what they think.

 

[Architect]

Larry David can also be an attention whore, look at his Tonight Show interviews; it's part of his act. In the past I could be one too, when I was acting a role for a job I had. Those kind of clues are hard to use to figure out if somebody is a type.

The only reliable way is to see the functions. First question, do you see a prevalence of Ti? Taking the Larry David example again, here is somebody who carries a black book around with him to take notes on human behavior. In his case he uses the classic INTP humor gambit of taking things out of context. He uses these notes of ordinary odd little things we don't think about from normal life (one example is when a woman 'borrowed' his pullover from his car at a beach party), examines them (why would a woman take his pullover when he's 'chilly' too?) and then turns them into part of an episode (dammit that bitch took my fleece!) He's the INTP Ti observer looking in.

Brent is the funniest of the three in the vid above, so look to his behavior on and off camera. Does he exhibit any indication that he's thinking (Ti) about life in the large sense? I don't see this in Fresh Hell, though I haven't gotten too far (correct me if I'm wrong here). I see some situational comedy, but no larger message or systems analysis. Mainly seems to be making fun of himself, which is just one of the devices LD uses.

If you see Curb, and read about LD in real life, you see somebody looking at life as an observer, from the outside, and seeing it in a larger context about the real meanings of the trivial things we do, with an implicit commentary (probably) on our trivial lives.

 

[intpz]

But seriously, wouldn't you get annoyed and genuinely understand one's actions if he/she would STEAL your things? It's in your car, you own it, it's yours. Why would someone even think of borrowing your things? It's the same as your neighbor coming by and borrowing your TV for a football game.

 

[Architect]

But seriously, wouldn't you get annoyed and genuinely understand one's actions if he/she would STEAL your things? It's in your car, you own it, it's yours. Why would someone even think of borrowing your things? It's the same as your neighbor coming by and borrowing your TV for a football game.

Watch the episode )

 

[AureliaSeverina]

Larry David can also be an attention whore, look at his Tonight Show interviews; it's part of his act. In the past I could be one too, when I was acting a role for a job I had. Those kind of clues are hard to use to figure out if somebody is a type.

The only reliable way is to see the functions. First question, do you see a prevalence of Ti?

OK, so far, the ISFP on personalitycafe has said that he's definitely not an ISFP and has posted a video of Brad Pitt. He's supposed to be an ISFP and he does say a lot of Fi things, like he feels his way around the character and it just felt real etc.
No ISTP has turned up yet. So..... I'll provide my analysis of the following boring interview. I can spot some Ti, Ne, Si in it, but also some things that contradict Ti, Ne, Si. I probably wouldn't be able to spot dom Fi (ISFP) or aux Se (ISFP and ISTP) without help. So they may very well be there but I'm not seeing them because I'm focusing on what I can identify.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEXEuF3LHbQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTJ8Blu1bz0&feature=relmfu

contra INTP:
- says he has no interest in the future, maybe some INTPs would be more interested in the future? But then my INTP friends never talk about the future that much. idk, what about you guys??
- seems very sure that aliens don't exist

pro INTP:
- rambling (Ne?)

- uses imagination to write

- "argues" with the writers.... gives them notes on the character and doesn't just accept them as an authority straight away

- claims not to remember much from the series, but has very detailed
memory of Borg scene (Si?)

- "idea" that data could have hearing sensors in the back of his head (Ti?-Ne?)

- "idea" about crew ending up in 1930s studio (Ti?- Ne?)

- on data's 'multiple techniques': What does the woman want, not what
he's able to do. (a little bit of Fe? + Ti arguing about what the real nature of the question should be)

- wrote story for film: not asked to write emotional scenes, but how to get
characters out of dangers (strategy? Ti?)

- interviewer describes Data as a sexless android. "Well, I wouldn't say
sexless, I'd say highly sexy, but unsexual." (Ti arguing about
definitions?)

- creating "B4" (dumb replacement for Data who's like George Bush): grew
up in Texas and had a lot of information and background (Ne? Si?)
about the Bushes. Not everyone who grows up in a particular place knows
all about the politicians there or thinks they are somehow related to a
movie character who has nothing to do with politics?

- "Star Trek fans are Star Trek fans, all over the world, wherever they are.
They are very similar." (Ne)

- sees several threads running through the fandom (Ne)

- Star Trek philosophy embraces outsiders, doesn't judge people (Ti?) and
goes on to ramble about NASA people all being Star Trek fans (Ne)

- it's ironic that minority of Star Trek fans have embraced it as a religion,
Gene Roddenberry didn't want to create a religion like L. Ron Hubbard, but
inadvertently did. But religion is false and has wholes in it. (Ti?)

- It's an illusion that Star Trek presents a peaceful environment, they blow
people up all the time, they all carry guns, we still have these same
problems of solving our problems with violence (Ti?, not agreeing with
herd sentiment that Star Trek is all happy-clappy), but "It's a beautiful idea." (Ti?, appreciates the idea even if it hasn't been realized 100% or isn't realistic)

- humble about the role of Star Trek and has a clear definition of his role:
they are entertainers, not trying to change the world

- some stuff is fun but is only for the moment, isn't a classic; every
generation has to rebel against their parents and have their own music
etc (seeing the big picture without really judging?)

- unscientific observation: look at the eyes darting left and right

Hum, that's all I've got so far.

 

[intpz]

Watch the episode )

If I'd know it in SxxExx format, I would. After I get my hardware fixed.

 

[Architect]

OK, so far, the ISFP ...

@AS

Hm, sorry but your argument isn't convincing. Watching the videos he comes across much as he does in Fresh Hell; rather jaded and drifting through life. I don't see any compelling reason to believe he's an INTP, and a few big clues that he's not. One, as you mention, he's not interested in the future. Two, he has no belief in aliens and no interest in sci fi. Three, he has no interest in research and apparently analytic thought.

When typing somebody, first start out with the Dominant and look for strong evidence of that. If nothing leaps out (which doesn't for him) then do a Litmus test. In this case I'm not seeing Ti. In both the show and the interview he talks (well, blathers) on (an INTP would probably either speak more precisely or with more wit and charm), says that his work comes from his imagination (an INTP would tend to derive their work more from analysis, imagination is more Ni which is a INTP shadow function) and tells us more of what he doesn't believe and isn't interested in (INTP's are usually full of odd and interesting anecdotes of what they are interested in, have analyzed and observed). I don't know what he is but I'm not seeing INTP.

For comparison watch this

Larry David Eats a Pancake

• Both BS and LD are comedians, but see how more witty and charming LD is (Ne + Fe)
• Notice how LD humor is situational and taking things out of context (read the Paul James profile for more on this - Ti and observational Ne)
• Notice how LD is analyzing; for example drinking tea instead of coffee with his wife. Logically, why shouldn't he do that? Jerry Seinfeld is maybe an ENFX, he understands you want to drink the same thing. Larry analyzed it, and logically why not?
• Watch the out takes, LD talks about tipping and not having time to think about the right thing to do (classic INTP Ti needing time to analyze). Any other type would instinctively know to tip.
• Seinfeld knows LD is a walking brain and says as much, and how much he admires LD's intellect.
• LD is a typical INTP ectomorph, and is suspicious of what is in his food (the chicken comment). Typical Si behavior, food is fuel, not comfort, and being suspicious of what is in it is typically INTP (I can't put my finger on the Personality Junkie reference at the moment, but that is certainly true for three INTP's (including myself) that I know)

Und so weite ...

 

[AureliaSeverina]

crap, I just wrote a really long reply and my computer has eaten all of it. I'll reply tomorrow.

 

[Architect]

crap, I just wrote a really long reply and my computer has eaten all of it. I'll reply tomorrow.

I hate that, it has happened to me a few times. Now I periodically select all and copy in the dialog box, especially right before I post.

 

[AureliaSeverina]

Meanwhile, I've found some new material and it's getting harder and harder to type him. I'm beginning to agree with you.
Also some people have commented that he does the whole inflated ego thing on purpose and is just so subtly ironical that people don't get it.

Here's some INTP-ish things he says, among many undefinable things:

"I've read all the episodes and I've acted on them - I just think it would be redundant for me to sit down and watch them."

"gosh, I've got to be careful, because I tend to say what I'm thinking... and that's always a mistake."

His acting teacher taught him to be really versatile like a chameleon and he likes the variety.

"and playing yourself one of the most difficult characters you can play, ’cause God knows most of us don’t know who that is." <-- OK, this isn't INTP specific, but it's at least a tiny bit of reflection

BWP: What do you consider to be sexy?
BS: Brains. Sense of humor. Talent. Wit. Perfect body.
BWP: Hahah! In regards to a ‘perfect body’ I guess that’s down to personal taste. We’re all different, right?
BS: No, we’re all the same.
BWP: Different and the same. Probably what the general message of Star Trek was, aside from people killing each other wherever they are. Speaking of tastes, what’s the strangest food you’ve ever eaten?
BS: I eat a lot of strange food now that I don’t eat meat. Tofu is odd and apparently not particularly good for you. I had some Bolognese sauce the other night that was made out of something other than meat. I think fake meat is delicious.
......
BS: I turned vegetarian because I didn’t want to eat our friends, the animals, anymore.

^^Here's a tiny bit of fretting about food.

"BWP: Agreed. What do you consider the biggest personal drawback to being an actor is, because in the past you’ve described yourself as a bit of a loner – does that impact on your chosen profession at all?"

BS: Hmm, I don’t want to seem like an ingrate. It really has been a sort of wonderful gift. But, I guess the downside is some of what Fresh Hell deals with. Getting older, getting used up, being old news. Of course, that’s true in any line of work. That’s why I think Fresh Hell speaks to everyone. <----- evasive manoever by generalising/abstracting?

http://www.people.com/people/archive/article/0,,20112854,00.html

He happens to be one of the funniest men I've ever known," says Stewart. And "one of the smartest," adds LeVar Burton, who plays blind engineering chief Geordi LaForge.

.....
"But the truth is, away from his TV family the never-married Spiner lives a kind of Lonely Guy existence. In his sparsely furnished (he calls it minimalist) ranch-style house in the Hollywood Hills, the floors are immaculate bare wood; the living room contains a pristine modern couch and an armchair (which Spiner never uses); and one guest room is empty except for a stack of Trek scripts (at last count, 126, spanning the show's five years) and a box of photos of Spiner as Data, which he sends to fans. Spiner has also installed a gym—with a television set. "When I'm not working on TV, I'm watching it," he says."That has become my life."

In fact, his job consumes a large part of it. Trek's complicated special effects often require the cast to work overtime redubbing lines—so Spiner is on the set 12 hours a day, six days a week. Which doesn't leave Data's alter ego much time for dating. And when he does go out? "This is no reflection on the people I've been with," he says, "but very early in the evening I generally say, 'Do you mind if I stretch out and take a nap?' Because I'm so exhausted."

Yet even before the series, romance had eluded Spiner. Why? "I was never a rake; I was more of a broom," he quips, then turns serious. "My psychiatrist asks me the same question. I don't really have any answers." He muses. "Some people are born to have involvements. I'm a loner. And my neuroses don't really allow me to get close to anybody, which is why I was the ideal choice for this part. . .