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Breaking Bad (by someone who actually knows how to type)

scenefinale

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#1
INTJ
-Walter White

ENTP
-Saul Goodman
-Skyler White

INTP
-Gus Fringe
-Lydia Rodarte-Quayle

ISTJ
-Mike Ehrmantraut
-Hank Schrader

ESFP
-Jesse Pinkman

ESTP
-Marie Schrader
-Tuco Salamanca

ENFJ
-Don Eladio

ISTP
-Gale Boetticher

ENTJ
-Kuby

These relationships of opposite types (e.g. INTJ/ENTP) being extremely rewarding crops up in many places.

I will do a video backing these up with justifications on each of their cognitive functions and explanations of the aforementioned relationships, so make sure you come prepared if you intend to disagree with me. I was sad to read the so many other threads and see how off many were. Hopefully this will help to clear things up a bit.
 

Reluctantly

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#3
I need an eyebrow raising emoticon. Nothing else seems appropriate.
 

scenefinale

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#5
You think Gus is an INTP?
With highly developed Fe, yes. He has developed his Fe enough to provide a bimbo-like interface as he works the counter taking orders. Ne/Si is obvious in his decisions, he treats things as imperfect/perfect (e.g. "I don't work with junkies", an Si "rule" he follows). Clearly he is a bigger picture thinker. "Pollos Hermanos, where something delicious is always cooking." That's an INTP joke if I've ever heard one (that is to say, it goes over everyone else's head but is hilarious to someone who actually understands what it means).

I've seen people (with thousands of posts and years on typing forums mind you) type Gus as INTJ... INTJ is wrong, this shows an utter lack of understanding of the cognitive functions, as INTP/INTJ each use COMPLETELY different functions. I tend to think of Ni/Se as the more reckless of the two intuitions, it does not follow "rules" as Ne/Si. Gus makes well thought out, careful business moves. He gets put into some risky situations but I would not consider him a reckless type like Walt (e.g. Walt who brought the bomb into the hospital).
 

scenefinale

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#7
Sure, I'll start by saying that I was raised by an ENTP, so I can spot them very well :)

S4E05 "Shotgun" @ 21:55
"We having second thoughts?"
SKYLER: "Every hour of every day."

This is classic ENTP playing devil's advocate. You can spot ENTPs by their facial animation, rapid eye movement, and sometimes "paranoia" (E.g. the way Saul holds the pay phone with a cloth not to get fingerprints on it), etc.

A dead give away for an ENTP is the clear aforementioned Ne/Si decision making, but the fact that they regularly break those Si rules (Si being the inferior for ENTP), such as Skyler smoking with the baby, or purposefully cheating on Walt. They hate attention to detail but know when it is required (she tells Saul in one episode "The devil is in the details.").

She is extremelyyyy intuitive (she knows Walt's involvement in the drug industry will lead to a dead end).

I don't think anyone will argue she has strong Fe..


There is a brilliant scene which demonstrates perfectly what happens when Ni and Ne work against eachother. The scene is pure Ni vs Ne (Ne usually wins out in my experience but it was a good scene none the less).
S5E04-"Fifty-One" @ 36:30 - 38:09
 

scenefinale

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#8
Spoiler Alert:




Also, I should mention this is how they were able to love eachother up until Walt died, the ENTP/INTJ is a beautiful relationship of opposite functions. If you've ever seen MythBusters you might agree Adam (ENTP) and Jamie (INTJ) one is great with visualizing and flipping through many ideas creatively, the other is good at implementing and enjoys the hands on (INTJ). It makes for an extremely effective team.

This is also why Walt and Saul are able to use teamwork and get out of so many jams.
 

scenefinale

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#9
Ohh and one other thing I forgot to mention for Skyler. ENTPs are, in my experience, the best at spotting lies. Partly because they have strong Fe which makes them very perceptive to the feelings of others, but also because they have such a strong ability to think bigger picture and connect the dots.

This site agrees with me
http://oddlydevelopedtypes.com/ENTP
"...ENTPs are the type that can most accurately detect lies."

Skyler can alwayssssss spot Walt's lies, she sees right through it, she even confronts Jesse in one episode.



Not to mention how good at improve ENTPs are, their ability to just "hack" together a way to get what they want is uncanny. E.g. when she talks the locksmith into opening Walt's door for her and not even paying him, or the time she almost gets detained for Marie's shoplifting but magically talks her way out of it.

There's much more but those are the highlights I can think of off my head.
 

Architect

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#11
Wow, somebody actually knows how to Type!

INTJ's are usually the ones with that kind of hubris.
 

scenefinale

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#12
I'm derailing a bit, but what type are you, @Scenefinale?
INTP

Wow, somebody actually knows how to Type!
:)

Forgive me for the suggestive title, but I perused a thread on this other forum and it was just 6 pages of people guessing with no basis or logic and I thought oh dear lord someone needs to fix this!
 

Architect

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#13
Typing celebreties is error prone. Typing fictional characters is fictional.
 
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#14
It's not that simple. Sometimes fictional characters fall into types, sometimes they don't.

Edit: lol I guess it's fictional anyway :P
 

scenefinale

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#15
Typing celebreties is error prone. Typing fictional characters is fictional.
This is what's so hard about typing is that there is spotting the type of the writer, the type of the character, and the type of the actor who plays said character.

If casting was done well, the character and actor are the same type. I try to only use examples where this is the case.
 
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#17
I can type as well! Example, This is an example of my typing skills, see! It's not that hard.
 

QuickTwist

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#18
Why you no type me in my thread?
 

scenefinale

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#19
Why you no type me in my thread?
I had to watch this series I'd say about 4 times through to make sure I understood as much as possible, the reason for every detail in the show, and so that I had each type down correctly. That's a lot of time and effort. This was a business decision as I needed a popular/trendy show to which people of a large audience can relate so that when I give my presentation people will get my references. Also, it is a damn fine show, IMHO.

I had plenty of information to go off of as there are a lot of episodes each with video involving speech patterns, facial movements, and a broad sweeping overview of a character and what they're about. This is much different than reading a few paragraphs somebody wrote on a forum and trying to "type" them based off that. If you are that uncertain of your type, use this show along with the aforementioned types and see to which characters you relate the most. I'll post one other show here shortly, The Wire.
 
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#20
- There are some things about Walter that i can't associate with INTJ, anyway it seems the closest option.
- Skyler is not an ENTP by any means, no way, she's probably an ESTJ.
- Lydia is a bit difficult cuz i don't remember her that much, probably an ISTJ.
- Jesse Pinkman is in my view a depressed ISFP with too many problems.
- Gale is probably an INTP.
- Gus is an INTJ.
- Hank ESTP.
 

Jennywocky

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#21
Oh good grief. Saul feasibly leads with Ne; but Skylar does not. You're entirely reaching, as it seems that you've forgotten that every human being has access to all functions. You also assume that someone who can put something together at some point in time must be intuitive.

Look more for where a character lives comfortably and consistently.
 

scenefinale

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#22
... as it seems that you've forgotten that every human being has access to all functions. You also assume that someone who can put something together at some point in time must be intuitive.
Just curious, have you read "Mind Shapes" by Dr. Khan on his work regarding the evolutionary perspective of the cognitive functions? It's not very well know at all, probably because it can be construed as "offensive" by non NT types.

Just because someone has "access" to a function does not mean they can use it in the highly polished manner which someone of that lead function can.

I think a good example of this is when the DEA brings Gus in for questioning. A room full of SJ's, sitting directly across from Gus, asking him questions. Even Hank (inferior Ne), surveils Walt after he has explicit evidence saying Walt is his Heisenberg, he still needs more proof and has to recheck all the evidence in his garage, and even then he still isn't sure. He doesn't have developed enough Ne to see it clearly. Some people just aren't going to connect the dots the way an ENTP can.

Please note that I am NOT saying NT's are better. Up until recently in evolution, being an NT was a serious disadvantage, e.g. daydreaming and getting eaten by a predator, NT consistent lack of body coordination, etc. Moreover, NTs were killed for their magical ways of connecting the dots and "knowing the future".

Further disclaimer, I don't believe in any one type being better than another, similar to how, counter-intuitively for some, there is no "best" car. There are certain cars which can do well on certain tracks with certain drivers, to say anything is "best" is completely subjective.
 

scorpiomover

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#23
Reason why I thought that Walter White was not an INTJ, was implicit in the first episode. When he showed Jesse how to cook, he said quite clearly that it was just basic high-school chemistry. He wasn't making out like he was a genius who could solve every problem, and should be the go-to guy, that INTJs love to pride themselves on being. He just didn't have the Ni "I want to improve on the existing system, but only what I think of" thing, that INTJs normally have. He had the "your drugs are rubbish, because you're not following the Si rules of chemistry, which anyone can read, and cook as well as me" thing, that INTPs would do.

He also gave the accurate but terse explanation of how he killed the guys in the first episode. It went right over Jesse's head. INTJs talk concisely, but not accurately, in ways that Te make sense to most people. It's how they are able to be so persuasive, by appealing to language and arguments that most people would grasp, by skipping all that stuff. An INTJ would have said "I mixed up a poison gas that would kill them."

The rest, I haven't really considered all that much, except Jesse, who seems a classic ESTP.
 

scenefinale

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#24
Reason why I thought that Walter White was not an INTJ, was implicit in the first episode. When he showed Jesse how to cook, he said quite clearly that it was just basic high-school chemistry. He wasn't making out like he was a genius who could solve every problem, and should be the go-to guy, that INTJs love to pride themselves on being. He just didn't have the Ni "I want to improve on the existing system, but only what I think of" thing, that INTJs normally have. He had the "your drugs are rubbish, because you're not following the Si rules of chemistry, which anyone can read, and cook as well as me" thing, that INTPs would do.

He also gave the accurate but terse explanation of how he killed the guys in the first episode. It went right over Jesse's head. INTJs talk concisely, but not accurately, in ways that Te make sense to most people. It's how they are able to be so persuasive, by appealing to language and arguments that most people would grasp, by skipping all that stuff. An INTJ would have said "I mixed up a poison gas that would kill them."

The rest, I haven't really considered all that much, except Jesse, who seems a classic ESTP.
A good example of the Ni/Te is S1E07 @ 13:48
Ni/Te is very good at keeping variables in their head.

Whereas INTPs/ENTPs are usually great at visual math but if it comes to storing more than a few numbers at a time, especially moving them around, they will resort to writing it down.

If you ever watch an INTP/ENTP give a speech for example, they will almost always go off a prepared piece of paper.

Ni often doesn't need to, they can remember what leads to what, this is what typically makes them great conductors/musicians.


Jesse is ESFP.
 

scenefinale

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#25
With highly developed Fe, yes. He has developed his Fe enough to provide a bimbo-like interface as he works the counter taking orders. Ne/Si is obvious in his decisions, he treats things as imperfect/perfect (e.g. "I don't work with junkies", an Si "rule" he follows). Clearly he is a bigger picture thinker. "Pollos Hermanos, where something delicious is always cooking." That's an INTP joke if I've ever heard one (that is to say, it goes over everyone else's head but is hilarious to someone who actually understands what it means).

I've seen people (with thousands of posts and years on typing forums mind you) type Gus as INTJ... INTJ is wrong, this shows an utter lack of understanding of the cognitive functions, as INTP/INTJ each use COMPLETELY different functions. I tend to think of Ni/Se as the more reckless of the two intuitions, it does not follow "rules" as Ne/Si. Gus makes well thought out, careful business moves. He gets put into some risky situations but I would not consider him a reckless type like Walt (e.g. Walt who brought the bomb into the hospital).
S3E08 @ 40:40
GUS: I investigate everyone with whom I do business. What careful man wouldn't?

Again, Si rules in conjuction with lead Ti. INTPs can be quite untouchable when it comes to running a business, they don't stick their necks out unless they have damn good reason. This is quite evident with Lydia as well, also in The Wire, most of the top business owners are INTPs, such as "The Greek" whose name is actually never uttered throughout the series.
 
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#26
You've got it wrong man, remember that episode where Gus started walking taking shoots from the sniper, challenging el Cartel de Juarez?


well that's Ni-Te cuz he was like you can't kill me and i know it, let me show you how big my balls are. He was sure of it and he didn't thought about another possibility like being killed, not even in that stressfull situation so no Ne. No Si.
Obviously he's a blantant Ni-Te-Fi-Se.
Your last proof is weak and kinda irrelevant cuz as he says any man in his situation would have done the same.
BTW look at his face, let's compare Atta's facial expression (INxJ) with Gus':

[BIMG]http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/profiles/images/mohamed_atta_2.jpg[/BIMG]

[BIMG]http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120715180725/breakingbad/es/images/thumb/1/13/T4_-_Gus.jpg/250px-T4_-_Gus.jpg[/BIMG]

Ha! i won.
 

scenefinale

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#27
You've got it wrong man, remember that episode where Gus started walking taking shoots from the sniper, challenging el Cartel de Juarez?, well that's Ni-Te cuz he was like you can't kill me and i know it, let me show you how big my balls are. He was sure of it and he didn't thought about another possibility like being killed, not even in that stressfull situation so no Ne. No Si.
Obviously he's a blantant Ni-Te-Fi-Se.
Your last proof is weak and kinda irrelevant cuz as he says any man in his situation would have done the same.
Thank you for actually trying to back your argument, it's appreciated.

However, the scene to which you're referring is actually good TiNeSi example, meaning he had already, prior to that scene, thought long and hard about whether the Cartel could kill him or not. He obviously came to the conclusion that they would be doing more harm to themselves by killing him and his distribution network. Si is also a "power tripping" function, hence the hands motioning to "go ahead". Si loves to "power trip", you can see it in SJ law enforcement quite frequently, like with Hank.
 
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#28
It could be Ni-Te-Fi as well.
I think a INTP wouldn't have the necessity of showing that much of "territorial presence" wich is indicative of inferior Se as it's shown in its primitive form according to some things i've read.
Anyway putting that aside, all the ways lead me to Fi all over the place ---> no Fe.
If he was in fact using Si, then the option would be ISTJ. But it's clearly not the case.
 

scorpiomover

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#29
A good example of the Ni/Te is S1E07 @ 13:48

Ni/Te is very good at keeping variables in their head.
Yup. They never remember them. They're always making them up as they go.

Whereas INTPs/ENTPs are usually great at visual math but if it comes to storing more than a few numbers at a time, especially moving them around, they will resort to writing it down.
True. They always forget about putting their numbers in their phone. When they need to ring the number, they usually just type them in the phone, and that is it. They don't remember every number. Probably on average about 8-12 digits for each number, and about 20-50 numbers, for their phone. They tend to be very hard on themselves about not remembering every detail. They'd consider themselves forgetful if they've ever forgotten a single thing in their entire life.

If you ever watch an INTP/ENTP give a speech for example, they will almost always go off a prepared piece of paper.
INTPs are funny at speeches. They'll have the entire speech printed out, with all the bullet points and footnotes. When you ask why, it's because they are worried that they'll forget something, or will say something wrong, even when they have memorised it perfectly. In the first couple of minutes, they'll be reading from it verbatim like an idiot. They sound so robotic, it doesn't even make sense. When they relax, and start getting comfortable, they become incredibly eloquent, and hardly glance at the notes at all. When they're really relaxed, they'll start ad-libbing, embellishing the speech by quoting the footnotes verbatim, even though they don't have any of the quotes on their sheet. They're always convinced that they did the speech badly. But people love it.

Ni often doesn't need to, they can remember what leads to what, this is what typically makes them great conductors/musicians.
One of the things that I've noticed about INTJs, and that they've pointed out to me numerous times, is Ni can retain the current worldview that they made for the task they were on. But once they have to work on a different task, they need to use a different Ni worldview, and the old one gets dumped, because they can't retain it.

It's quite funny to watch them talk. You can listen to an INTJ give a speech that sounds brilliant, for an hour. Then the next day, ask them to repeat it. They say a speech that is just as good, and sounds like it seems the same. But if you recorded both quietly, without telling anyone, and then play them back to compare them, you realise that they've just given 2 completely different speeches.

You can ask them why they didn't use a piece of paper for prompting. They'll tell you that they don't need it. But then, you have the tapes, and you know they did need it. You can point it out. But there's no point, because they'll just keep on inventing arguments on the fly to dismiss the evidence, until you give up.

They even say that they'll answer the same question "black" on one day, and "white" on the next, because to them, they are 2 different contexts, and so they are 2 different truths. They really believe that the truth changes with a different context (their choice of word).

This makes them excellent conductors, because conducting is about leading people in a unique environment where you have to guide them with the flow that is there at that moment, and will never occur again the same way. It can't be done directly off a script, without sounding incredibly hollow. You have to improvise, which is their biggest skill (and their biggest weakness).
 

scorpiomover

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#30
I don't know about Gus anymore. I've seen the actor in Once Upon A Time. He's very soft-spoken. But this is a quote of Gus:

"What does a man do, Walter? A man provides for his family. And he does it even when he's not appreciated, or respected, or even loved. He simply bears up and he does it. Because he's a man."
―Gustavo Fring
CAN ANYONE IMAGINE ANY INTP EVER SAYING SUCH A THING?

((Capitals because it's mind-boggling to me that anyone even would say such a thing. It's just such an SJ-ish thing to say, isn't it?)
 

scenefinale

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#31
INTPs are funny at speeches. They'll have the entire speech printed out, with all the bullet points and footnotes. When you ask why, it's because they are worried that they'll forget something, or will say something wrong, even when they have memorised it perfectly. In the first couple of minutes, they'll be reading from it verbatim like an idiot. They sound so robotic, it doesn't even make sense. When they relax, and start getting comfortable, they become incredibly eloquent, and hardly glance at the notes at all. When they're really relaxed, they'll start ad-libbing, embellishing the speech by quoting the footnotes verbatim, even though they don't have any of the quotes on their sheet. They're always convinced that they did the speech badly. But people love it.
Very true. One of my all time favorite INTP speeches is Mr. Rogers defending PBS to the US Senate:
http://youtu.be/yXEuEUQIP3Q
You can tell he has it memorized verbatim as when he gets interrupted he goes back and tries again from the top of the same line. Once he has made the connection, he then goes into freelance as he knows it's a done deal. Most people don't even realize the $10 million that was riding on that beautiful speech, according to a Wikipedia source he was aiming for the $20 million but ended up with $22 million.

That well developed Fe is the tip of his Ti iceberg.
 

scenefinale

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#32
I don't know about Gus anymore. I've seen the actor in Once Upon A Time. He's very soft-spoken. But this is a quote of Gus:

CAN ANYONE IMAGINE ANY INTP EVER SAYING SUCH A THING?

((Capitals because it's mind-boggling to me that anyone even would say such a thing. It's just such an SJ-ish thing to say, isn't it?)
That is Ti manipulation. He is manipulating Walt, it works like a charm in the show.
 

scenefinale

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#34
Thoughts on Walter manipulation over Jesse?
I would say it's a common theme in the show for intuitive-types to manipulate the sensing types. e.g. another Ne "improv" scene for Skyler
S3E09 "Kafkaesque" @ 39:20
SKYLER[to Marie]: We have the money, more than enough... He earned it gambling.

She then proceeds to run circles around Marie (and even Walt for that matter) with her on the spot story. Manipulation can be with any of the functions, I just happened to point out before which function he was using to do it.
 

scenefinale

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#36
It's often said Fred Rogers is an INFP.
Well, he does have a bit of the Fi "snarl" of Auburn's typing videos. Ti (especially with Ne) is usually slow and reaching in speech though (think of how awkward and slow Lydia talks), Te is more of blurt it out. Plus he has a philosophical way about him. Older people are the hardest to type in my experience though. I've posted a hell of a lot of typing the last few days, it's hard to defend it all as I haven't put up videos yet but perhaps soon. I welcome (even encourage) people to disagree with me. I'm just saying there are a lot of people who post typings willy-nilly, I've usually contemplated mine over for a week or two or three or four or twenty before posting it, but I am willing to admit there does always exist the possibility that I am wrong, however unlikely that may be.
 

QuickTwist

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#37
I have a theory. My theory is that you are making a theory and trying to support your theory through self inflation. Just being honest.
 

scorpiomover

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#38
Very true. One of my all time favorite INTP speeches is Mr. Rogers defending PBS to the US Senate:
http://youtu.be/yXEuEUQIP3Q
You can tell he has it memorized verbatim as when he gets interrupted he goes back and tries again from the top of the same line. Once he has made the connection, he then goes into freelance as he knows it's a done deal. Most people don't even realize the $10 million that was riding on that beautiful speech, according to a Wikipedia source he was aiming for the $20 million but ended up with $22 million.

That well developed Fe is the tip of his Ti iceberg.
Wow. Nice portrayal of an ISFJ.

FRED ROGERS, a guy that was able to worm his way into your heart, with FEELINGS, to such an extent, that you remember him as his TV character's name "Mister Rogers".

All he wants to do, is to teach every child about how to deal with the average, normal, mundane, usual situations, like between a brother and sister, and how to deal with the emotions that abound in those situations. He wants each programme to end making the child feel like he is loved and unique. All he wants is to let those feelings flow from his natural self into the child, in the regular activities that we physically see every day, for each child to remember that they are uniquely subjective in a way that no other child would objectively experience, and he wants to make sure that he all those little children are helped by this, changed for the better. By making the world adapt to his goals, he makes the world a better place.

It would be amazing to be like Mr Rogers.

But to be honest, I'm way too obsessed with technical details, and can't handle talking about feewings for that long, without my brain getting seriously tired and a headache. Plus, I'm just not bothered about day-to-day stuff. I'd end up talking about Micro-Drones or the state of the economy in 50 years instead. I just don't think that I could do what Mr Rogers does.

However, he definitely comes across as very socially reserved when compared with common modern social attitudes, very out of sync with modern life, and very, very lacking in confidence compared to the extremely pushy and highly over-opinionated behaviour that is common today. That much is certain.
 

cooperbrown504

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#39
Walter White - INTJ

Saul Goodman - ENTP

Skyler White - ENTJ

Gus fringe - INTP

Lydia - ISTJ

Mike - ISTP

Hank - ESTJ

Jessie - ISTP (I think hes a thinker over a feeler, he's just not that good at it.)

Marie and Tuco - ESTP

Gale - INTP
 
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#40
Do you disregard that the actors are speaking the words that an INTP probably wrote for them? As all the new transformers made with transformium contain traces of Megatron (since they used his DNA), all characters may not necessarily follow perfect MBTI protocol, since they contain traces of their writer-creator.
 

scenefinale

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#41
Jessie - ISTP (I think hes a thinker over a feeler, he's just not that good at it.)
You think Jesse's lead function is introverted thinking? I don't think so.
 

scenefinale

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#42
Do you disregard that the actors are speaking the words that an INTP probably wrote for them? As all the new transformers made with transformium contain traces of Megatron (since they used his DNA), all characters may not necessarily follow perfect MBTI protocol, since they contain traces of their writer-creator.
No, I already acknowledged that typing shows is problematic as often the writer-creator/character/actor can be a mess of different types. I said that if casting was done "well", character and actor will be the same type.
 

scenefinale

Active Member
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#43
It would be amazing to be like Mr Rogers.
Yes. Yes, it would. And my propensity to haphazardly speculate his type as INTP clearly stems from my subconscious trying to fulfill my life long goal of becoming more like Mr. Rogers.
I don't think I'm the only INTP who fully appreciates the greatness of that man.
http://xkcd.com/767/

But in all seriousness, I don't have enough information to go off of to defend that typing so at the risk of being wrong on the internet I'm going withdraw my statement.

If you wish to further discuss it though I would ask that we go to a separate thread :)
 

cooperbrown504

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#44
You think Jesse's lead function is introverted thinking? I don't think so.
I think he acts like an immature self serving ISTP who isnt in touch with his feelings.
 

gade

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#45
I will do a video backing these up with justifications on each of their cognitive functions and explanations of the aforementioned relationships, so make sure you come prepared if you intend to disagree with me. I was sad to read the so many other threads and see how off many were. Hopefully this will help to clear things up a bit.
Your explainational video or detailed post could be pretty helpful
e.g why do u think Lydia is an INTP, i would type Hank as an extravert or Walt plays the same Machiavellian game as Gus so what's the difference?? Both can see big picture.

btw: i like Gus having everything under the control without emotions except just before the explosion. Is this any INTP attriute or just him??

btw2: i am watching Breaking Bad show only because of this thread and MBTI (not my favourite especially the session 5 completely awful. I recommend House of Cards with Kevin Spacey).
 

etrunk

elliePHANTtrunk
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#46
I'm just now watching Breaking Bad because my boyfriend recommended me to. Him and I are both MBTI lovers, so I have spent the whole first three seasons collecting my thoughts on what type the characters are. I am very delighted to see someone's input who knows how to type. I could talk all day about this. I just started season 4, hoping to add more information and characters to my list. I was wondering if you have typed any other characters, such as Badger, Skinny P, Walt Jr, and more... I love your explanations. I would love to chat and collaborate!!
 
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