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Blade Runner the new version

ZenRaiden

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I watched the new Blade Runner sometime ago so I am bit rusty, about what the movie was like, but my original impression was it was shit, weird movie, with no real story.

I cannot help it, because I legit did not understand the second version of blade runner.
I perfectly understood first blade runner though arguably I had to watch it over few times to get it fully.

I am perfectly willing to accept that I just am dumb ass.
Whats really interesting I also don't get the aesthetic of the movie and the violence seemed more about shock value than actually saying anything.

I felt fairly crappy after the movie and did not enjoy it.

What say you?
 

Cognisant

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It was definitely a film written to be examined and lauded as a work of art, and was created by people who thought they were being really clever.

K is a very difficult character to relate to. He's treated badly for being a replicant but it's not clear why anyone cares or how they can tell, which just comes off feeling odd. Indeed everyone's acting in this film is so stiff and serious that very little humanity comes through, personally I found the replicant he killed at the start to be most "human" character in the whole film, because he seasons his food. Even the CEO Niander Wallace comes across as just a miserable ascetic fuck with a god complex, as the primary antagonist he feels almost incidental to how utterly shit the world is.

The real antagonist of the film is the setting which has all the baked in misery of a WH40k underhive and none of the appeal, it's just sad, grey and boring, and aside from a few key building (introduced in the prior film) it's not even architecturally interesting. What I'm saying is that there's no emotional payoff because the actual antagonist of the film is never addressed, no kind of victory is won, sure K reunites Deckard with his daughter but why does that matter?

This movie is about K and his antagonist is a dystopian world and there's never any hope of anything getting better, the most positive interaction he has is with his virtual girlfriend and even that feels super weird and fucked up.

He owns her like a slave and I could almost be into that* except I don't think she's real, I mean if they have AI advanced enough to think like an actual person why is the world so utterly shit? Why do they even have replicants? Why isn't this story about these AIs being kept as slaves on a mainframe, being put to work via robots in some idyllic post-scarcity real world?

*: The slave/master thing would actually be interesting in the sense that K wants a relationship, he wants to be loving and feel loved, which creates a fun power dynamic wherein both sides have some power over the other. Also he can't get what he wants without giving her want she wants, to not feel like something he owns, although of course the moment she has the freedom to escape he has every reason to expect she will. I see this eventually coming to a head when due to some circumstances he tries to sacrifice himself for her e.g. "you escape, I'll hold them off" and then she chooses to stay with him, thus the master/slave dynamic is broken.

And then they both die, perfect tragedy.
 

dr froyd

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i enjoyed the scene when he did the AI girlfriend + prostitute simultaneously. I like the idea of an AI girlfriend that automatically orders hookers to your home.

that's my review of the movie
 

Puffy

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I watched the original film just over 10 years ago and the only thing I vaguely remember from it today is the "like tears in rain" scene. I couldn't tell you what that scene is even about, I just remember that line.

If you didn't enjoy it you didn't miss out on anything. Pompous art has little significance in my view, it's entertaining or stimulating in the moment but is mostly forgotten without any meaningful or lasting impact on our lives.
 

LOGICZOMBIE

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I watched the new Blade Runner sometime ago so I am bit rusty, about what the movie was like, but my original impression was it was shit, weird movie, with no real story.

I cannot help it, because I legit did not understand the second version of blade runner.
I perfectly understood first blade runner though arguably I had to watch it over few times to get it fully.

I am perfectly willing to accept that I just am dumb ass.
Whats really interesting I also don't get the aesthetic of the movie and the violence seemed more about shock value than actually saying anything.

I felt fairly crappy after the movie and did not enjoy it.

What say you?

forgettable, skip it

 

scorpiomover

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i enjoyed the scene when he did the AI girlfriend + prostitute simultaneously. I like the idea of an AI girlfriend that automatically orders hookers to your home.
"Hey Siri, phone (insert number of hooker)."
 

Cognisant

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What's really clever about the first movie is that it tricks you into seeing things from Deckard's perspective before you realize he's essentially a Nazi Jew hunter, like Hans Landa from Inglourious Bastards.
images (2).jpeg


What's even more clever is that the movie never tells us whether Deckard is a replicant, which puts him in a superposition as both human and replicant, thus through him we empathize with the replicants.

And what's even cleverer still is that the movie goes to great lengths to assure as that the replicants aren't human, they're uncanny and that can be tested for. What this means is that we can never fully humanize them, they're not just humans by artificial means, they are their own thing and we're forced to accept them as such.

Do you side with humanity, even if that makes you a Nazi. Or do you betray your humanity and side with the replicants, because what is humanity without our ideals?

The second movie completely drops the ball, there's no need for investigation, K is essentially a hitman who knows he's a replicant, the eye scan thing serves a completely different purpose and every replicant in the movie is blatently emotional so there's zero ambiguity about them being essentially just sterile humans.
 

Cognisant

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Come to think of it what the fuck was Niander's deal? He wants replicants who can breed because he needs more of them, meanwhile K's apartment block is packed with people living on the stairs.

Oh I get it now, he wants to be god, he wants to replace humanity with replicants, it' an allegory for mass immigration and white replacement.

Niander is Albo.
 

Kuu

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Clearly the film was about K's search for meaning and what it means to be "human", love and things people call love (presumably, the ultimate human emotion), how it is twisted and how it drives people, and the simple correlation of K's demoralized, dehumanized, emotionally repressed existence in his dystopian world to our present reality.

The movie is naturally derivative. You can't outdo the original. The first had mystery and was somewhat novel in its themes. The sequel just continues the exploration of the themes while trying to avoid falling into a base pandering or formulaic repetition.

Villeneuve's steadfast refusal to follow trite big budget movie conventions and turn Blade Runner into a cartoon like other rebooted franchises, and instead present a bleak cerebral cinema is, if anything, a huge filter. It's a movie in a dystopia. It's meant to leave you feeling depressed and vaguely anxious... that it achieves it is a feature, not a bug. Some people understand that... many don't. The big problem is it's too damn long. Bleak and long together is a hard sell.

Clearly though a lot of people got the movie's message, even if only subconsciously, because it produced so many memes. K as an avatar of the lonely, emotionally repressed, nameless modern man engaged in a sisyphean pursuit. Joi as the ideal girlfriend you can never have. People really resonated with the vibes. The casting of both was superb.

K is driven by his memories that give him a sense of meaning and humanity through familial love, but these are fake and ultimately he must reject them and find his own true meaning. The familial love was Deckard's, not his. One could argue this we all feel as children, and then coming of age demands leaving the familiar to find yourself, and the director is playing with the typical heroes' journey, one in which he is in search of love and identity, and goes through several sequences of false starts until he finds them.

K is given a sense of romantic love through the eponymous Joi, and this explores a lot of ideas around male loneliness, fantasies, feminine ideals and the reality (or lack thereof) of such love. Joi is an ersatz relationship, an escapism, a bought and paid for fantasy of love and humanity for K, the perfect girlfriend, caring, beautiful, attentive, supportive and loyal till death. He is jabbed by the prostitute that "he doesn't like real girls", pointing out this common problem of young men putting women on unrealistic pedestals. He is infatuated by a mirage. Ultimately they "make love" by getting the prostitute to be a physical proxy. But is sexual intercourse any more real "love" than holographic interaction?

Joi's character arc leads to an ever increasing "reality" later to be *crushed*, and while a lot of people seem to think that the holo ad scene cements the point of view it was all fake, I don't think that was the director's intent. I think it is meant to be ambiguous. The whole theme of Blade Runner is about the possibility of real free will, intelligence and emotion in artificial beings (and therefore, our exploration of the reality of our own). K is a replicant yet the audience is made to humanize him, you take the reality of his emotions and free will for granted. Somehow that is not afforded to Joi. But why not? Because she is programmed, obviously. But isn't K too programmed, an artificial being with fake memories and all? And aren't we all programmed by biology? Isn't "love" programmed into us? A biochemical tyranny that forces us into these behaviors?

So I think that theme is playing on two layers and left deliberately unresolved. One, can artificial, disembodied, programmed AI have true emotions and free will? And two, do we??, or is the human condition biological machines programmed just the same, pretending not to be? Does love and free will even exist? Therefore, the crushing feeling of the holo ad scene was not that it was definitely fake love, or that it was definitely true love but is now gone... but the more disturbing sense that you cannot even know if it was real or fake. Like some complicated breakup... it's over, but what exactly is over? Either conclusion is bad, but not having any conclusion is worse. You can drive yourself crazy over it. Perhaps a lot of people don't interpret it that way because they haven't experienced such a thing.

These themes are further reinforced by Niander and Luv's characters. Their relationship is again, of the creator and the created, and deal with the issues of determinism vs free will, what it means to be human, and emotions. Both represent what we'd call pathological forms of love. One only loves himself, he thinks himself god (an all too human conceit), and the other has a twisted sense of self-love and has placed her entire identity and self-worth in the external approval of someone else, an abusive, obsessive and hollow "love".

K finally discovers his humanity and will when he sacrifices himself. He chooses to die for the sake of others. His life gains meaning in his death. A higher kind of love. It was religious in that way.

The movie concludes with the victory of true love over false love, of true humanity.

Seen in this way, I don't agree with Cog's assertion that there is no payoff because the true antagonist is not addressed. It is not the setting that is the real antagonist. It is the struggle for meaning in the human condition. The setting is merely an externalization of it.
 

LOGICZOMBIE

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Come to think of it what the fuck was Niander's deal? He wants replicants who can breed because he needs more of them, meanwhile K's apartment block is packed with people living on the stairs.

Oh I get it now, he wants to be god, he wants to replace humanity with replicants, it' an allegory for mass immigration and white replacement.

Niander is Albo.

they already made this movie

 

LOGICZOMBIE

welcome to thought club
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Come to think of it what the fuck was Niander's deal? He wants replicants who can breed because he needs more of them, meanwhile K's apartment block is packed with people living on the stairs.

Oh I get it now, he wants to be god, he wants to replace humanity with replicants, it' an allegory for mass immigration and white replacement.

Niander is Albo.

also,

 
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