best RPG?

[bvanevery]

Just trying to complete my due diligence before I finally write one myself.

Recently gave many hours to Oblivion but eventually found it wanting and deleted it. The main gripe was getting PWND by various random enemies, no matter how powerful I thought I had leveled up to be. It has a system where enemies are leveled to be equal to whatever your power is, or something roughly like that, which pretty much makes all the ceremonies of leveling up almost pointless. It would be better to get through the game staying at Level 1 as long as possible, and I did indeed try some cynical characters arranged to do just that.

I tried Pillars of Eternity briefly. Some nice artwork, and some edgy if grim narrative. I objected to being summarily executed by a pack of 5 wolves though. This is another instance of the "no idea how difficult your enemies are" problem.

Divinity: Original Sin was recommended by someone and I'll probably try it soon.

I did try Skyrim a few years ago, didn't buy it, 'nuff said for now.

Yeah I don't like anything. Is there some RPG you got really excited about?

 

[Cognisant]

The most fun I had in Skyrim was playing a salt of the earth hunter, no quests, no magic, no raiding bandit camps, I defended myself when necessary and otherwise spent my time hunting, harvesting alchemical ingredients and traveling around selling what few goods I accumulated.

I like RPGs that allow me to actually "role play".

 

[Cognisant]

Occasionally when I get bored at work I discreetly open notepad and type out tabletop RPG ideas and one I keep coming back to forgoes experience points and leveling in favor of measuring progress in terms of character wealth, political influence, accumulated skills, etc.

This way (metaphorically speaking) a lvl1 character and a lvl20 character can be in the same party and they're equally mortal, one just happens to be a genius, billionaire, playboy, philanthropist and the other is an intern.

 

[Yellow]

There's a game I enjoy. It's very simple graphically, but more complex in structure than it initially appears. It's called Tales of Maj'Eyal: Age of Ascendency.

 

[Jennywocky]

well, if you use a skills / point-buy game versus a leveling RPG, the difference between a less experienced and more experienced character is options/broadness -- the less experienced character can still be highly skilled at a few things and thus competitive in those areas of development.

 

[The Gopher]

I like RPGs that allow me to actually "role play".

Occasionally when I get bored at work I discreetly open notepad and type out tabletop RPG ideas

A lot of people say they like "role playing" yet apparently being a mute bard in an online voice only game with max charisma is not cool.

Popular results are either a quick character death or just so happening to run into a telepathy device in the basement of an old grandma for no apparent reason.

I kid I would never play a mute bard, it was an oracle.

 

[redbaron]

Pillars of Eternity
Baldur's Gate (Probably just go straight to Shadows of Amn, #1 is a bit outdated these days)
Dragon Age (origins)
Mass Effect 2 (1 & 3 aren't worth the money)
Dark Souls
KOTOR 1&2 (Again #1 a bit outdated)
Planescape (Old as dirt but awesome)
Suikoden II (As above)

You can set most of these games to really easy settings too so you won't have trouble getting through them. I'm actually kind of baffled how you found Pillars of Eternity too hard when you get to choose your difficulty.

On harder difficulties the game's obviously designed so that you're assessing the risk/reward of exploration as you go, and you don't ever feel 100% comfortable just ploughing through an area. Not all games aren't supposed to just be, "winwinwinwinwin".

The fun aspect in games like Pillars of Eternity/Baldur's Gate come from adapting to unexpected situations and learning how to get through sticky situations though a mixture of deduction, intuitive understanding of game mechanics and if all else fails: trial and error.

 

[Jennywocky]

I kid I would never play a mute bard, it was an oracle.

How about an online pantomime bard?

oracles have an excuse, depending on Curse.

 

[Cognisant]

well, if you use a skills / point-buy game versus a leveling RPG, the difference between a less experienced and more experienced character is options/broadness -- the less experienced character can still be highly skilled at a few things and thus competitive in those areas of development.

True but in Pathfinder for example the poisons are a mess because HP and saves scale, so the static values of these poisons mean that only a few are level appropriate at any given time. In this way a baseline system allows for more variety because you don't need an exponential increase in complexity to account for the meta at different levels, all the poisons can be designed to be useful all the time (situation dependent of course) as can various weapons, classes, spells, companions, etc.

Also you don't have the problem of needing to level check enemy characters to figure out if that sleight of hand sneak attack is likely to take them out in one hit or just get their attention.

It's just something I like to muse about

 

[Jennywocky]

True but in Pathfinder for example the poisons are a mess because HP and saves scale, so the static values of these poisons mean that only a few are level appropriate at any given time. In this way a baseline system allows for more variety because you don't need an exponential increase in complexity to account for the meta at different levels, all the poisons can be designed to be useful all the time (situation dependent of course) as can various weapons, classes, spells, companions, etc.

Also you don't have the problem of needing to level check enemy characters to figure out if that sleight of hand sneak attack is likely to take them out in one hit or just get their attention.

It's just something I like to muse about

I think we're in agreement as Pathfinder is a level-system, not a skill system (which would include White Wolf stuff and some other games). With the Unchained release last year it tried to add some scaling item and incremental growth in the leveling system so that items can't be outgrown and it's not an abrupt shift in power from one level to the next, but at core it's still a leveling system. You have to "level" to get powers and monster difficulty are ranked by CR (creature level).

WoD was a little better because right out of the box a starter character can do some things as well as a character that has been around for awhile... it's just the older character typically has more abilities and skills, whereas the beginner is very focused on their core set of skills/powers.

 

[Haim]

Mega Man Battle Network 6
fable 1
FF7
stars wars knights of the old republic 1,2
Evoland 2
Summon Night: Swordcraft Story 1,2 (due later games can be decent also)

Doesn't really have story but Mount & Blade: Warband

 

[bvanevery]

It's called Tales of Maj'Eyal: Age of Ascendency.

I find it quite odd that I never ran into that one before, as I thought I was aware of all "worthwhile" open source game development efforts. I was doing a lot of Linux in 2012 when it was formally released. I could swear I have a vague memory of something called ToME that really didn't work. Hm, whatever.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Objectively the best "RPG's" are tabletop games played with a buch of friends.

Regarding the video games:

Baldurs Gate II: Shadows of Amn (The second best retro cRPG)
Planescape: Torment (The best retro cRPG)
Final Fantasy VI (the best JRPG)
Chrono Trigger (second best JRPG)
SW KOTOR I & II (the best mid-age cRPG)
Neverwinter Nights (second best mid-age cRPG)
TES III: Morrowind (the best TES and the best early open world game)
Witcher II & III (the most modern 'best' RPG on the list, Witcher III does it all, tells a compelling story, has an immersive open world and a moderately challenging gameplay on the hardest difficulty)
Deus Ex (best early action RPG)
Fire Emblem: Thracia 776 (in Japanese, the best TRPG I've played and the most difficult one)
Dark Souls I: Prepare to die edition (almost no story, great atmosphere, great difficulty, great replayability, great immersion, best action RPG deprived of narrative)
Transistor (the best indie RPG, almost completely story driven)
Might and Magic VI & VII (pick one, the best dungeon crawler retro RPG)
Guild Wars II (the second best story driven MMORPG after retro MUD's if you join a roleplaying guild for the complete experience)

Most of these games tend to be difficult and it's a part of their charm and based on what I've learnt about your expectations towards the RPG genre you won't enjoy them.
Out of all of the above you might like: Transistor, Witchers and Skyrim (isn't on the list but earns the best modern generic open world moddable RPG spot). Be sure to check your difficulty settings before hating the game.

If you are looking to expand your perspectives before creating games yourself, you should focus a lot more on the indie market. You aren't going to do the same things the high budget multi-artist companies do with their games.

 

[Patch]

I totally recommend playing Shadow Hearts and Shadow Hearts Covenant for PS2 (try emulator, works really well). It's a japanese RPG very similar to FF in terms of gameplay, but the story is absolutely amazing, very Lovecraftian. Also, they make excellent use of real historical events, by incorporating them into the story. Worth checking out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_Hearts

 

[INTPaleoant]

Quite surprised not to see Kingdom of Amalur on this thread. Brilliant RPG and a spiritual successor to the old Bioware KOTOR game.

 

[smithcommajohn]

I loved the Fable & Elder Scrolls series with a few notable exceptions. The Fable for Kinect? Just sounds silly. I didn't bother. Elder Scrolls Online... I have logged countless hours into this game, but I just have a really hard time enjoying mmorpgs. Sooner or later I'm just fed up with having to deal with real humans in a game where I'm trying to escape them.

I also really enjoyed the Diablo series of games. They are a bit more hack/slash style, but really love the atmosphere of the games.

 

[Jennywocky]

Quite surprised not to see Kingdom of Amalur on this thread. Brilliant RPG and a spiritual successor to the old Bioware KOTOR game.

I've never heard of it, oddly enough. Now I want to look it up.



... just finished the Jedi Consular storyline in SWTOR. the best part of it was that, unlike some of the other storylines, you actually build a coalition throughout the narrative and succeed in part by the end because of the allies you have accumulated. the Consular is really a Force-using diplomat of sorts, the way it is written here.

I just have the Smuggler (Han Solo - esque) and Trooper storylines left. I'm playing the Smuggler mostly Dark Side, which makes the humor blacker than before.

 

[PmjPmj]

Let's test my memory...

I think my first 'proper' RPG was Neverwinter Nights, which was brilliant back in the day. I tried to re-play it recently but found that it required more concentration than my two year old would allow. Especially as I was playing a mage, aka 'glass cannon'.

Knights of the Old Republic was a fucking masterpiece in its day, and 'the twist' blew my 15/16 year old mind. HK-47 (was that his name?) was my favourite character.

Mass Effect 2 is probably the finest RPG I've ever played. It kept me gripped from beginning to end; I would highly recommend it, and the first one. I found the third to be somewhat flat, and never actually completed it - so I have no idea what becomes of Shep'.

Diablo II needs no explanation. Just bear in mind you'll develop RSI.

Gothic 1 & 2 are flawed gems. I fucking loved those games back in the day. They made you work hard, but if you could overcome the unforgiving game-mechanics and persevere, you were handsomely rewarded for your efforts.

Speaking of flawed gems...

Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines. There was something quite satisfying about (end game) playing a character that could dodge bullets and smash people 15ft into the air with their bare fists. Brujah for (un)life, baby!

Divinity II: Ego Draconis was a gem of a game, sadly largely overlooked.

I'm sure there's more

[EDIT] Oh shit, of course - the Elder Scrolls games. How could I forget? I have wasted literal weeks, maybe even months playing those things. Jesus.

Oh, and Fallout 4 is 'ok'.

 

[Jennywocky]

Knights of the Old Republic was a fucking masterpiece in its day, and 'the twist' blew my 15/16 year old mind. HK-47 (was that his name?) was my favourite character.

Greetings, meatbag.

The userbase (cracking the code) fixed and released parts of SWKOTOR2 that had been locked before release (since the studio hadn't had time to finish and debug them), and there's a cool sequence where you have to play as HK-47 and bust into a robot factory making upgraded models of him... to prove your supremacy. It's a riot. There's some other items too that they fixed and tweaked, but that was one of the main pieces they restored.

There's downloads online that you can run to upgrade the game. These aren't them, but you get enough info out of them to Google around and find them. Steam actually released a patch for the game to support it further, but don't think it officially includes the restored content? (Can't remember...)

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2009/10/after-four-years-volunteers-restore-missing-kotor-ii-data/
http://www.moddb.com/mods/the-sith-lords-restored-content-mod-tslrcm

 

[PmjPmj]

Nice, I had no idea.

Thank you, watery flesh-sentient.

 

[The Gopher]

Jenny I did a ctrl-f but couldn't find the imperial agent. What did you think of it and how did you play. (spoiler it probably)

 

[YOLOisonlyprinciple]

I played Skyrim a lot until i lost my save, and then it wasnt the same again cos i had to use cheats to get the same items and skills.


Although not an RPG. I love EU4 now especially with all the DLCs

 

[Jennywocky]

Jenny I did a ctrl-f but couldn't find the imperial agent. What did you think of it and how did you play. (spoiler it probably)

I think I ran Sniper: Marksman as my build since I was solo-DPS'ing the game.

(And I have to say, with the revisions to the companion pool, if people can't solo this game through fairly easily, they're probably struggling with MMOs in general. Especially if you're playing a ranged squishy who thus is sending your companion in to Tank for you. Their tanking is insane. Although admittedly at this point my low-level characters are starting with all four buffs from the other classes, which helps.)

Build was pretty much by the book in terms of utilities... although occasionally I''ll take a utility that increases my speed overall because I like moving faster as my own little quirk.

I played Dark Side solid, cutting a bitch through the center of that narrative.

Not really sure which questions you're asking per se...?

At least with Sniper/Marksman, it's a very ranged character. So you plant yourself in the right spot, toss up the shield (if you're not behind cover), and go to town while sending in your companion as a tank or DPS. The AoE is incredibly powerful. It takes a little time to figure out the rotation because there's so many options (versus the Jedi melee classes, which do have options but you're essentially always at close range and can swing some kind of attack even if it's not the best one you could have chosen). Sniper is about positioning and getting the right rotation so you can get off the long shots (both in range and duration) while having your closer-range shots available if something manages to get to or near you -- so you can pick up, run, and then replant yourself.

 

[The Gopher]

I went chaotic/true neutral. I was an operative who thought hey lets solo heal until level 47. One minor engagement lasted 20 minutes because I wasn't interested in doing the side quests again and was horribly under leveled.. While fun was maybe not the best way to do it. Honestly playing the operative killed pretty much any other RPG. I was a steath burst dps healer. Literally the best thing ever. It even made PVP in that game fun.

You answered pretty much all my questions. Just wanted your thoughts really.

 

[Jennywocky]

I went chaotic/true neutral. I was an operative who thought hey lets solo heal until level 47. One minor engagement lasted 20 minutes because I wasn't interested in doing the side quests again and was horribly under leveled.. While fun was maybe not the best way to do it. Honestly playing the operative killed pretty much any other RPG. I was a steath burst dps healer. Literally the best thing ever. It even made PVP in that game fun.

You answered pretty much all my questions. Just wanted your thoughts really.

I really liked the storyline, it felt different in some ways than the generic storyline. All the subterfuge and behind-the-scenes manipulation... it gave a really nice distinctive feel compared to the "Good Jedi / Bad Sith" narratives that usually dominate.

I've had to start balancing my level with the quests -- your level does scale down, but if you're too far above, you still just get scaled to the highest-possible level for the region and pretty much crush everything in sight. So I've stopped doing non-class quests pretty much, to keep my level in the sweet spot and make it more fun. The Consular was actually my first real Republic character, where I ended up doing every quest possible with her; and she was so horribly overleveled that I capped out at 65 (wasn't getting experience) before even doing Corellia. I put my companion on DPS and then processed to wipe everything on the planet, even the heroic bosses you should generally be getting a group to kill to be safe... those were the ones where I actually had to actually engage mentally and manage timing and resources well.

My experience playing overall is that the first few class storylines can be hard, because the quests are unfamiliar and you're still learning the game. But once you carry over some of the Legacy benefits to new characters, and you know the game, and you're a subscriber (because subscribers can get decent perks to make life more enjoyable), things get a lot easier. Also, where they made companions exchangeable instead of unique as far as capability goes (instead of each having a different specialty), it doesn't matter which one you use... and I think they might be a bit too powerful now. Like, seriously, when they're tanking and sometimes even DPS'ing, they just soak damage like crazy. All I have to do is get them to hold aggro, and I pretty much just go all out offense and crush the sprites. I only worry about force-bubbling them (or whatever else) when I'm doing heroics -- the gold stars sometimes or the boss stars.

 

[Sinny91]

I'm off to continue my Dragon Age story...

2nd run through. First was when it came out.

Was glued to the game for two whole weeks.. maybe more...

Now I've got to figure out where this bloody werewolf is...

Sorta wish I bought the second one this time around, but I knew I had to relearn everything so started from the beginning again.. But I forgot how long it would take.

 

[Jennywocky]

I'm off to continue my Dragon Age story...

2nd run through. First was when it came out.

Was glued to the game for two whole weeks.. maybe more...

Now I've got to figure out where this bloody werewolf is...

Sorta wish I bought the second one this time around, but I knew I had to relearn everything so started from the beginning again.. But I forgot how long it would take.

Is this Inquisition or a different one?

I started Inquisition when it came out, but got caught up on other stuff and have to get back to it.

 

[Sinny91]

Is this Inquisition or a different one?

I started Inquisition when it came out, but got caught up on other stuff and have to get back to it.

Origins.. But I noticed the others are all available on EA for a subscription cost of £3.99.

I hope to get through them at some point.

 

[PmjPmj]

DA2 was slated because it was dumbed down, but I actually enjoyed it. It was a welcome break from the comparative depth and complexity of Origins.

... which reminds me - I need to add DA: Origins and DA2 to my list I played DA3 for all of five minutes before I got totally pissed off with it. The script could have been written by a fucking 12 year old. Utter shite.

 

[Jennywocky]

Origins.. But I noticed the others are all available on EA for a subscription cost of £3.99.

I hope to get through them at some point.

Oh. I don't remember the werewolf anymore, but yeah, I enjoyed that game immensely considering my old-school Computer RPG roots. Plus I had installed some mods later (like, allowing me to play all the gender romance paths with the same character, etc.)

DA2 was slated because it was dumbed down, but I actually enjoyed it. It was a welcome break from the comparative depth and complexity of Origins.

I won't say I didn't like it. It was enjoyable for what it is, and the interface was really clean.

However, it was more of the "dammit, I just thought I was drinking a glass of milk and it ended up being root beer," and there's that initial five seconds where you spit everything all over the floor because you had no idea what was actually in your mouth. And then of course a bit of a disappointment because I was looking for old-school RPG gaming and got something that felt like a console/PC hybrid.

... which reminds me - I need to add DA: Origins and DA2 to my list I played DA3 for all of five minutes before I got totally pissed off with it. The script could have been written by a fucking 12 year old. Utter shite.

I only made it through the opening sequence, and then my computer was being a bit lame and stuttering, so I ended up doing other things. I guess I'll see, once I start up again.

The tarot card deck that came with the Inquisitor package looks gorgeous, though... even if some of the pictures make no sense for the card they are on.

 

[Sinny91]

Oh. I don't remember the werewolf anymore, but yeah, I enjoyed that game immensely considering my old-school Computer RPG roots. Plus I had installed some mods later (like, allowing me to play all the gender romance paths with the same character, etc.)

Ohh that's cool.. I wanted to do the whole Morrigan thing, but I'm a chick in this version. I'm only about 25% in, so I'm stuck with Alistair until someone better comes along.. But I'm hoping I end up queen... He's too gullible for his own good.

I won't say I didn't like it. It was enjoyable for what it is, and the interface was really clean.

I think this is the only decent one I've ever played... But I'm yet to jump into 90% of all those mentioned here.

However, it was more of the "dammit, I just thought I was drinking a glass of milk and it ended up being root beer," and there's that initial five seconds where you spit everything all over the floor because you had no idea what was actually in your mouth. And then of course a bit of a disappointment because I was looking for old-school RPG gaming and got something that felt like a console/PC hybrid.

Which old school would you recommend I try out first?

I only made it through the opening sequence, and then my computer was being a bit lame and stuttering, so I ended up doing other things. I guess I'll see, once I start up again.

The tarot card deck that came with the Inquisitor package looks gorgeous, though... even if some of the pictures make no sense for the card they are on.

Lol, dooo it.

 

[Jennywocky]

Ohh that's cool.. I wanted to do the whole Morrigan thing, but I'm a chick in this version. I'm only about 25% in, so I'm stuck with Alistair until someone better comes along.. But I'm hoping I end up queen... He's too gullible for his own good.

Your decisions in the game (and especially in the last 25% of the game) actually impact how all that plays out, if I remember correctly. Especially in regard to which characters you choose to align yourself with.

There's one crazy scenario that can play out involving Alistair, and I won't say anything more about it because it's more fun to be surprised.

 

[PmjPmj]

I won't say I didn't like it. It was enjoyable for what it is, and the interface was really clean.

However, it was more of the "dammit, I just thought I was drinking a glass of milk and it ended up being root beer," and there's that initial five seconds where you spit everything all over the floor because you had no idea what was actually in your mouth. And then of course a bit of a disappointment because I was looking for old-school RPG gaming and got something that felt like a console/PC hybrid.

You do have a way with words

I concur wholeheartedly. For me, it was a bit of brainless fun - right when I needed just that.