Attempting to peek into the black box of thinking

[Niclmaki]

This is going to be a bit of a semi-story / semi-question post.

Doing some meditating on the process of thinking itself, I’ve noticed that I have several ways of reckoning and figuring. That is… analyzing, synthesizing and ordering my thoughts and ideas. It’s hard to not use super abstract words, but it is the best I can do. My wondering, and purpose of my post is to ask others about how they think.



Early in my life (pre-10) I am not entirely sure that I could even recognize my own thoughts. That is, I could be asked how I knew something or why did I do something and I could honestly say, “I don’t know”. It’s very hazy trying to remember that far back, sadly.

From 13 until about 25 I imagined that the only way to think was talking to yourself in your head. It was VERY distracting to hear other people talking when I tried to think. My mind HAD to follow what was being said. Somewhat redeeming is that I could not ignore someone talking to me. It took a very long time to learn how to ignore people.

26+ I recognized that some people think by visualizing things. I wondered if I could learn to incorporate that. However, I found myself doing a bit of the opposite. Thinking deeply makes me rather blind to things right in front of me. I also realized that my thinking was not talking to myself, it was much more abbreviated. I only thought I was thinking in complete sentences because it is the only way I knew to describe it. In sentences that make sense. My thoughts that I do not share are much quicker and different. Almost nonsensical but, but also ‘right’ in most cases? Hard to explain.



Some recent experiences prompted this exploration.

Like, being able to read and talk at the same time. Or writing and listening at the same time. However, reading and listening puts my replies ‘in queue’. I don’t think I ever actually did learn how to properly ignore people talking. It (my mind) is still tracing speech whether I want it to or not. Writing and talking makes me write what I am saying without realizing it.

I have also find myself daydreaming while reading. This was quite a complex and confusing experience all in one. I was reading The Hobbit but my thoughts were wandering. However, I was still reading and had the story playing out in my mind. Similar to how you can daydream while watching TV I suppose.

In a quick discussion with my father, he very strongly believes that the ONLY way of thinking is talking to oneself in their head.



To get to the questions though, has anyone else ‘watched’ their thoughts closely? (Not WHAT you think, but HOW) What did you discover? Can you even put it into words? Have you discussed it with anyone else? What was their view?

 

[birdsnestfern]

Maybe by listening and being still or meditating? Slowing the brain waves down with slow five second in and five second out breaths.
Consciousness has many many levels to it and I think it has to do with the brain wave speeds. Ie, dreaming , isn't exactly thinking, its art or illusion, or lucid visuals.
The pace of the thinking voice is slower than the speed of light downloads of ideas you get from out of nowhere for example. And sometimes intuition just comes to you without words, its just
a feeling thought, like 'green light' or 'redlight' yes, or no or like feeling expansive vs feeling contractive. I guess what I mean is, you get information from more than the brain itself.
Sometimes it comes from your heart network, sometimes it comes from your gut, sometimes it comes from vibes outside you, sometimes it comes from inside, sometimes from actual self talk and reason. I think its multilayer.

You can sometimes be in the daydream state and come up with a poem that is awesome for example without trying.
Many different states, the state when someone is surfing on a wave and in tune with the energy of the riding it, ie, 'the flow' state.

Or, you might see a picture with eyes closed in theta state and then see that same thing later in the day.
Or, something tells you to not go as the light turns green, and then a car goes thru the intersection, you got a knowing to delay something.
(Always look both ways at any intersection regardless of a green light or having the right of way, people don't always stop at a green light).


If I feel like a stick in the mud, and I won't budge about something, I know something about a calendar date or event won't work. Its like the body stiffens up to say NO, don't.

If I feel wide open and expansive and happy, the body is saying GO FOR IT! (So thoughts come in so many subtle ways!).

Unconscious thought and impulses you aren't in control of too.
All the different Clares of intuiting thru senses and there are more than just five for sure.
I think it is more than just your voice of reason though.

 

[Rook]

my mind is mostly an empty void nowadays and anything i do comes so to say from the subconsciousness

i tried to imagine and remember ten things yesterday and went watermelon>sword>tap> then the order got messed up with tree, reed and I think I gave up there? Yeah.

 

[Niclmaki]

my mind is mostly an empty void nowadays and anything i do comes so to say from the subconsciousness

i tried to imagine and remember ten things yesterday and went watermelon>sword>tap> then the order got messed up with tree, reed and I think I gave up there? Yeah.

Hah, you just reminded me of a couple exercises I did in my adolescence. I called one ‘thinking backwards’ - I’d suddenly interrupt my thoughts and try my best to trace backwards how I arrived at what I was thinking. I’m not too sure what the point was, but I think it was because this ‘self awareness’ thing was just odd to me somehow.

Another one is trying to imagine or think of a thing not immediately connected to anything in my immediate influence. And if I could, I’d try to figure out how I did conjure up that idea.

… … I was a strange kid - it’s like consciousness itself baffled me I guess. And still sorta does. I suppose it should have been no surprise that philosophy and psychology were my favourite subjects in school.

 

[Black Rose]

When I was 8 I understood what an artificial womb was. I had toys that I pretended that robots would travel hundreds of years into the future to a planet and give birth to children they would raise to populate it. I also understood when I was 8 what stop motion animation was. When I was 12 I got the lego movie maker set and made stop-motion animations.

I do not talk to myself when thinking, thinking to me is not in worlds or images but is unconscious contemplation. Listening to ideas that I write down later. I did not understand that people thought in images until I was 27. Ideas to me are not words or images but I just know something then I express it outside myself.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

To me it seems as if I know the answer before I can put it into words. My brain forms a collection of images, facts and experiences that are grouped together that I then try to shorten from a few paragraphs into a few sentences.

Then I consider if what I just thought even makes sense, is factual or if I agree with what I'm thinking. Only after all of that there is a point when I speak.

The weirdest thing maybe is having thoughts that I disagree with which isn't uncommon. It's like a part of my brain was lazy and another part rejects its input and forces it to come up with another answer. This is mostly wordless.

I'm mostly a visual thinker so my experience may be different from yours. But the process of thinking is not word based unless it is a formal or logical step by step process like writing a program or solving math problems. However in formal step by step processes most of the thinking also isn't done using natural language, but rather symbols and elements of the subject domain.

 

[Black Rose]

the process of thinking is not word based unless it is a formal or logical step by step process like writing a program or solving math problems. However in formal step by step processes most of the thinking also isn't done using natural language, but rather symbols and elements of the subject domain.

If you make a mistake how is the mistake corrected in your image thinking?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

If you make a mistake how is the mistake corrected in your image thinking?

In maths and formal thinking it's simple. The next step is visibly false or the result is. Most of the time it's just a matter of looking at the symbols I wrote down to find errors.

In image thinking it's not clear. There's only a degree of confidence in the answer. If I feel that the image is wrong then I consider if the memory is false. Sometimes I remember things that did not happen or did not exist. Similarly sometimes I'm very confident about ideas that I imagine should work, but turn out to be incorrect when I try to put them into words.

Mostly the process of expressing images and memories is when the error correction happens.

 

[birdsnestfern]

Ah, are we talking about inner conflicts? Ok, here is the model I use to work through them, its a triangle shape.

When you need to make a choice with several options, you want to VALUE all of your choices, ie, never reject any of them, simply ask each one what they will do for you and ask the one that has the most benefits to rise up to the top in this moment that you are asking. Notice that one option may be perfect for you at one time and the other may be at another time or situation, so you never want to push them or disregard them, as they will end up rebelling. (Compare this to how most people think of the devil, when you are trying to be good, there is always something that rebels if you de-value it, so to get around that, value all of the choices equally) and realize each is good for different situations and you always need all of your choices, never squelch them down or oppress them, they are a pharmacy for different things.

See a three sided triangle in your minds eye, or draw it if you like.
On the base corners of each side, put the choices you are working with.

1). Should I take a Barium Swallow Test knowing radiation is a risk of cancer, but the xray may explain a lot and may lead to a dr. helping you with surgery or other options for better digestion later.
2). Should I chose to NOT do the test and stay less exposed to risks, but just get by without it, and never know what the issue really is, but be ok with that.

You are going to ask each option what it will do for you and let the two options show you what they will do for you when they are chosen and when they rise to the top of the pyramid as your choice.

You will ask, if I CHOSE YOU, how will you benefit me, what effects will you have on my life? Now pause, close eyes, and listen to what each tells you. Ie, try both on as choices.
Each side will have a chance to tell you what it does for you, value these options.

Now, when you've let each share with you what they are to you, then evaluate which to chose this time. Let the one that seems to fit the situation best rise to the top and make your choice.

This works for all kinds of inner conflicts, just let the better choice rise up and be there, in the triangle visual. Make no judgements about the one lesser option, all options are your friends.
If its a difficult dilemna and I can't figure it out easily this is one way to work it out.

 

[Niclmaki]

To me it seems as if I know the answer before I can put it into words. My brain forms a collection of images, facts and experiences that are grouped together that I then try to shorten from a few paragraphs into a few sentences.

Then I consider if what I just thought even makes sense, is factual or if I agree with what I'm thinking. Only after all of that there is a point when I speak.

The weirdest thing maybe is having thoughts that I disagree with which isn't uncommon. It's like a part of my brain was lazy and another part rejects its input and forces it to come up with another answer. This is mostly wordless.

I'm mostly a visual thinker so my experience may be different from yours. But the process of thinking is not word based unless it is a formal or logical step by step process like writing a program or solving math problems. However in formal step by step processes most of the thinking also isn't done using natural language, but rather symbols and elements of the subject domain.

First part is very similar. I know the answer to things without knowing how, or even putting any conscious effort into ‘figuring’. Even works with math and chess moves. It’s like I’m simply handed a fully cooked meal on a silver platter. I may partially try to ‘retrace’ how such an answer appeared, but it’s just guessing.

It’s not a 100% always correct kind of deal, but it is a surprisingly high %, or at least close.


Perhaps we’re just equally accustomed to different types of figuring that the ‘easy’ it is done almost entirely subconsciously.

Fun to ponder about.