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ask not what you want

not

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I recently discovered MBTI. I am close to 40 years old and for most of my life I completely resisted even the cursory notion of personality testing for I have forever rebelled against convention. I have taken a variety of online versions of the Myers Briggs test recently and they all have indicated INTP. For whatever reason, my long running rebellion has been squelched. I find myself identifying with the type INTP. – Although the ‘T’ vs ‘F’ in me is still locked into a fight to the death. – It is through the experiential world that I have learned to run all thoughts through a feeling translation filter. I rationalize this as surviving a quite traumatic experience during a pivotal point in my young development that forces me out of habit to not only think things through logically but to also think through how my thoughts and actions will affect the world around me. It has become almost second nature that I sometimes can’t tell if I am thinking or feeling. My natural reaction to stupidity is, “You are an idiot and your sophomoric world view pains me to no end, please shoot me now.” But what comes out of me without deliberate revision, “I see why you have come to that conclusion, I respect your opinion. Have you ever considered this differing point of view for the following reasons?” So either I have grown, or I am really a flaming INFP wanting to take the INTP label as far as I can run with it while I can.

Shortly after joining this forum I began reading the Ask Architect thread. First it was a passing curiosity. Who is this person that has over 2000 comments on his thread? Now I’m hooked. It’s like reading a really great novel. I recently reached the halfway point and I’m taking this time to celebrate by writing this introduction. I have decided that I will finish the thread before I ask Architect any direct questions. It has already been over a month since I started reading his thread. I feel compelled and inspired to read the many books cited, to read the 5-page New Yorker articles that are linked, and watch the movie clips that are discussed. Many of the subject matters are over my head but I intuitively ‘feel’ that they are within my grasp.

I am far from being an expert. All that I know for sure is that I really don’t know much in the grand scheme of things. I am not sure if I started an Ask Not What You Want thread if I could sustain your interest for more than a week or two. My life so far has been the antithesis to Architect’s experience. I am more the cautionary tale, an example of what one’s life could end up like if you fail to recognize your strengths early on. Only I’m not… I firmly believe that I am one of those late bloomers, a genius in the making. There will be a convergent point in my life where the sum of my experiences will be greater than the whole. I tell myself that when people are quick to point out my many shortcomings and failed attempts. In other words, though the labels aimless, loser, lazy, broke, misguided, could all apply, I refuse to accept it as my identity. When I hit my stride I will be elevated so much higher than anyone around me in my real life that I don’t even think they could imagine it. I see it clear as day though.

When I was a kid all I ever really liked doing was breaking shit. Breaking things with the purpose of understanding how it worked. I never really bothered to put the stuff back together though so I quickly ran out of things. I naturally wanted to be an architect and an engineer. I often daydreamed about how it would be to work for NASA. Then two traumatic things seemed to coalesce, the space shuttle blew up on live television while I was watching it, and then my parents announced that they were getting divorced. As my father drifted farther and farther away from me I found myself leaning more and more on the arts. This loss of my father figuratively put me on a quest to find my voice. It is only now, 30 years later, and after living through the very recent, very raw, very real death of my father that I have come to realize this. I chose to become a filmmaker as a way to express my inner world to my father with the hope of gaining his acceptance. It’s kind of twistedly pathetic on the one hand, and extremely liberating on the other. (At least to finally realize it, if nothing else.)

I went to school for filmmaking. I chose a technology school over some of the more logical film school choices such as USC or UCLA. I studied filmmaking at Rochester Institute of Technology and it took me forever to graduate. I loved my film courses but hated pretty much everything else that was required for a degree. I often took electives that did not count towards my graduation. I studied photography, C programming, glass blowing, woodworking, political science, etc… I dabbled in psychology. It was the kid in me wanting to know how everything worked. At one point I thought I’d go into game design.

I founded the Electronic Gaming Society on campus. I am told that it is now one of the largest student organizations on the campus. My efforts launched an entire degree program at the school combining the computer animation aspects of the filmmaking program with the software development aspects of the computer science department. I never really benefited from the program directly. I graduated with my film degree the year before the program officially started and I personally moved on. But it does feel good to know I started a mini-revolution at my school even if no one there remembers my name. I contacted the most recent president of the organization to tell him I was the first president, and his one word response was ‘ok.’ - People take shit for granted.

In filmmaking I have pretty much done every job, from being a grip, to editing, to catering, to most recently, Executive Producing a feature film. Most of my career though has been sitting behind a computer creating graphics and compositing for television commercials. My personality has pushed me towards the technical aspects of making films. Commercials are where the latest and greatest tech is pushed to the limits so that is where I find myself often. – Though, lately I feel that it has been to the detriment of my soul.

I haven’t worked in 3 months. I was laid off a year ago from my day job. For a year I did freelance work here and there while I traveled the world with my movie. My last film festival was in August. August is about the time I showed up here. I am going through some sort of existential midlife crisis. Unfortunately purchasing a Porsche is out of my reach even if I wanted the superficial way out of it. I can’t shake the feeling of disgust with the world we live in, and this overwhelming feeling that I am supposed to make some sort of difference.

I have 7 films that I want to make. 4 individual ideas, then my trilogy, my opus, what I refer to as My Star Wars, My Lord of the Rings, My Avatar, My Matrix… For the longest time this has been my purpose. This has been what drives me. Recently I watched the film Being There (1979) and that film says everything I ever wanted to say in one film. It has to be the single most brilliant film ever made. The film is so good that it has me questioning my purpose. If this film could be made and go relatively unnoticed, what is the point for me to make another film? Who will watch it? Will it matter? Watching that film has forced me to rethink all 7 films that I want to make. It’s like, why do I need to bring 7 more films into the world to state the exact same thing as Being There?

I’m also going through a divorce. I married an ENFJ. She originally blew me off when we first met, but she says she fell in love with my mind when she saw my first film. She stuck around against her better judgment. I became her ‘project.’ We have very strong connections but very different world views. She also comes from the upper crust of society. My mother grew up in a one-room house in the country and my father is from the inner city. My parents are the most successful people in my family and I am the first person of my generation to go to and finish college. So there is this dynamic in our relationship where my wife feels socially superior, and has an attitude that she gave up her social status to a certain degree to bet on my brilliance. She’s quite happy to let me know how much I have failed her on a routine basis. On an intellectual level I do recognize her sacrifice. She really did pay a social price to be with me. But it only causes my own bitterness to seep out because I completely despise the current power structure. I’m a firm believer in Meritocracy. You really should have to earn your place in this world, but every one should at least have a fair shot, an equal starting point. I get annoyed with stupid people who are in powerful places because of their last name. Yet... I stand at the threshold of the world of the elite, an outsider with his foot in the door, and I often contemplate if I could actually make a difference in our world operating from the other side of the door, or if crossing the threshold would change me for the worse. I've been preoccupied the last few months trying to decipher what 'they' know on the other side of the threshold that I don't currently know and if it is worthing knowing... Does the threshold really exist or matter?

I’ll stop here for now… I will say that I feel at home on these boards and spend way more time reading and digesting than actually participating. Mostly because many of you are brilliant. I'm more of a learner and an analyzer than a teacher. My mentor told me that the reason he was willing to teach me was because it helped him learn better. So I want to step out of my shell a little bit and participate more, but am not exactly sure how to help, or if my experience is relevant to any of you. I am certainly not wealthy or well respected, though I do have many fans. I am open to growth.
 

Jennywocky

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I'm still reading the post (as it's rather long)...

...but +1 for the great thread title. ;)
 

Pizzabeak

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I was more or less in the midst of checking it out as well.. Sort of wanted to ask about your earlier filmmaker comments so this might be a decent place to start.
 

PmjPmj

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Great post.

My mental image of you is now roughly in line with the character 'Hank Moody' from Californication. Sans the Porsche, of course.

... and the endless sea of vagina.
 

not

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I love that show and that is just the future me... Let me finalize the divorce and then go shopping...
 

Grayman

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I am certainly not wealthy or well respected, though I do have many fans.

Is this personal value yours or your wife's?

Such things are meaningless. Respect and wealth do not make a great mind. You have a good mind, and I enjoy drinking your thoughts. The only thing in life that matters is choice. Even as a slave without arms you have choice. You can choose how you deal with what you have. Only when choice, the choice to see the world as you see fit, the choice to think what you think, only when those things are gone do you cease to be person and it is then that you lose value.

You have value to us, and it is not in your wallet or how many people like you. Welcome.
 

not

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Is this personal value yours or your wife's?

Such things are meaningless. Respect and wealth do not make a great mind. You have a good mind, and I enjoy drinking your thoughts. The only thing in life that matters is choice. Even as a slave without arms you have choice. You can choose how you deal with what you have. Only when choice, the choice to see the world as you see fit, the choice to think what you think, only when those things are gone do you cease to be person and it is then that you lose value.

To clarify...

"I am not 'financially wealthy, I am cash poor, and I am not celebrated by the majority mind, my personal views are minority views extraordinary though they may be, but I do have fans."

I did not intend to imply that it was a value that I placed on these things. What I was trying to convey is that if YOU, the reader, placed a value on these things, that I may not be the one to offer you advice. Especially if you want to ask me how to acquire these things. My personal FREEDOM is what is most important to me. Freedom in this world can be obtained by gaining wealth, or by forgoing the need for wealth... I don't advocate one over the other. I just personally feel that if you cannot be wealthy to the point of having your FREEDOM, than simplifying your life to the minimum necessities is a pleasing alternative to being a slave to the system...

You have value to us, and it is not in your wallet or how many people like you. Welcome.

Amen. Thanks. That's actually a topic dear to me. Choice. And it's the center stone of many of my ideas for films.
 

not

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If you are not currently wealthy, but you wish to be some day in the future, live a simple life while you pursue your goal of wealth. Examples. Minimize debt. Buy your car used. Save what you can. Take classes at a community college. Eat healthy now. (Cheaper to buy organic veggies now than pay for a hospital visit) If marriage and children are a priority, wait until you can afford it.

I cannot tell you how to get wealthy. I can share ideas on how to simplify your life while you figure out how you get wealthy on your own.
 

Grayman

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To clarify...

"I am not 'financially wealthy, I am cash poor, and I am not celebrated by the majority mind, my personal views are minority views extraordinary though they may be, but I do have fans."

I did not intend to imply that it was a value that I placed on these things. What I was trying to convey is that if YOU, the reader, placed a value on these things, that I may not be the one to offer you advice. Especially if you want to ask me how to acquire these things. My personal FREEDOM is what is most important to me. Freedom in this world can be obtained by gaining wealth, or by forgoing the need for wealth... I don't advocate one over the other. I just personally feel that if you cannot be wealthy to the point of having your FREEDOM, than simplifying your life to the minimum necessities is a pleasing alternative to being a slave to the system...



Amen. Thanks. That's actually a topic dear to me. Choice. And it's the center stone of many of my ideas for films.

I am sorry. I misspoke. I did not mean your value per se. I was really meaning the values you were inferring on us. I figure you are used to those being positive values in the views of other people as they are what is expected from your wife and many social groups as I gathered from your story. I don't think most of us value those things, so you have nothing to worry about here.

I am sorry if I am misreading you. I try to stop these intuitive glances and validate them before I speak but lately I have been a little quick to letting them roam free.
 

not

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Well that is true in a sense. In my real life I am surrounded by people who place an extraordinary high value on social status, whether it be those that perceive to have a higher status or those that aim for a higher status. I've said this before in other threads but I am not sure I even know any INTP's in real life. So I came here searching for people similar to myself to better understand myself and the larger world. Freedom seekers, and cosmos contemplators are whom I wish to meet.

I'm not anti-wealth. I'd like to have money, if only to make another film... I just don't long for it for social status reasons... Like buying a Porsche would be the last thing I'd do if I actually had money...

Should I just remove that sentence from the main introduction? It's not really necessary...
 

Grayman

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Well that is true in a sense. In my real life I am surrounded by people who place an extraordinary high value on social status, whether it be those that perceive to have a higher status or those that aim for a higher status. I've said this before in other threads but I am not sure I even know any INTP's in real life. So I came here searching for people similar to myself to better understand myself and the larger world. Freedom seekers, and cosmos contemplators are whom I wish to meet.

I'm not anti-wealth. I'd like to have money, if only to make another film... I just don't long for it for social status reasons... Like buying a Porsche would be the last thing I'd do if I actually had money...

Should I just remove that sentence from the main introduction? It's not really necessary...

I don't know really. If you feel it would better serve your purpose. If it were me, I would concentrate on what I have to offer and what is important to me, that is what I would put up there. It would also help us to know who you are better instead of who you aren't. Until we get to know you better there is a lot more we need to fill in of who not is than who not not is. We can save the cutting out for later.
 

not

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If I were to change my Avatar into a film character, I would choose Merlin from the 80's film Excalibur.

I created my own Avatar though... Cuz that's how I roll...
 

Pizzabeak

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How long were you and the enfj lady married? Were there any quirks about the relationship which could be related to Ti>Fe & Fe>Ti? Or, any aspects of your personalities which would manage to clash sometimes? Every wonder if it could be dealt with the remainder of your life considering you were married? Or care to go in bit more in depth about anything related to the chemistry between you two, that is if the class difference thing isn't what mainly comprises of the divorce facilitation
 

not

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not, what do I want?

Thanks for the interesting read.


Have you tried making any?

I have tried to design or rather architect the story and mechanics of a game twice in the past, but I never really learned how to program well. If I lead a team I could do it. I don't have the patience to do it alone. Though from time to time I get the urge to try to make a small phone app game.

I downloaded the XBOX 360 game development environment in 2007, came up with a simple puzzle game concept, but never actually sat down to make it. - I have to say that I am not much of a gamer anymore.

Around my 30th birthday, spending time playing games started to feel like a real waste of time. Up until then it was possibly me rebelling against the world who already thought gaming was a waste of time, but when I turned 30, I became more aware of the ticking clock. Hyper aware. When I sit down to play a game, I have this overwhelming nagging feeling that overcomes any joy I get from the game...

Making a game though, does not cause me this anxiety. Learning to program is my stumbling block. I find programming fascinating and intimidating at the same time. I know that if I put my mind to it that I can do it. I felt at ease in my intro to C class in college. But it will require quite a lot of dedication to do it well. Reading Architect's thread makes me want to try again. I downloaded IntelliJ to futz around with. We'll see how it goes.
 

not

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How long were you and the enfj lady married? Were there any quirks about the relationship which could be related to Ti>Fe & Fe>Ti? Or, any aspects of your personalities which would manage to clash sometimes? Every wonder if it could be dealt with the remainder of your life considering you were married? Or care to go in bit more in depth about anything related to the chemistry between you two, that is if the class difference thing isn't what mainly comprises of the divorce facilitation

I'm not quite sure what it is that you are asking me. I'll answer the first question, we have been married for 7 years. Been together for almost 10 years. (going through a divorce so we're technically still married)

I love my wife and probably will always love her. - I personally believe that there will be clashes in any type pairings and that you just have a responsibility to figure it out and overcome it. I think the INTP - ENFJ pairing can work well if the INTP is the breadwinner and the ENFJ is free to roam, socialize, and satisfy her academic whims. - Most of our problems are financially related. I dug a debt hole when I was younger chasing my own whims. This debt loomed over our marriage. I was forced to work to pay down the debt and she had to work too. She resented this. I don't know how much of this is from being ENFJ and how much of it is coming from a social class situation where working is 'optional.'

ENFJ's like to plan everything down to the last detail, but spend so much time planning that the final 'doing' can be a chore even for them. My idea for vacation is to go somewhere chill and relax, preferably warm and by running water or the ocean. Hers is to go on all these small outings. Plans to eat at this place, and visit that place, that for me, vacation ends up being more stressful than work.

I can give you specifics. But I am still reading and trying to comprehend the functions aspect of typing. This is partly why I haven't asked Architect questions yet. I don't know the language. So when you ask me Fe Ne questions I haven't caught up to you guys and I don't know what you mean. So let me finish my mini education so that I can speak your language and get back to you or rephrase your question for me. Assume I don't know anything about MBTI and build the frame of reference in your question.
 

not

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I would probably not get a divorce if the issue wasn't forced on me. I feel like I can live on with or without her. - But, the conflict is unresolved and I hate conflict. So given the choice of forever living in conflict or forever avoiding the conflict, I find myself choosing to go along with the divorce, a lesser of 2 evils. Intellectually I think that finding a way to resolve the conflict would be the best choice. In practice the conflict is unbearable, and I see no way to resolve it from within. - I rationalize the divorce this way: If I am correct, and the source of our mutual frustration is financial in nature, once I solve my financial problems she and I can get back together. - My fear is that she is the type that will jump to the next relationship without thinking it through. I accept that this is a likely scenario and I have come to terms with it. Sometimes you have to just let people go. She blames me for the failure of the relationship. I accept my role in the breakdown but ultimately it takes two to tango. She has not accepted her role and she will move on and discover that she has all the same conflicts with the next person. Or, she may find someone in a better life situation that meets her basic needs and she will never have to resolve her personal problems. All I know is that I can only work on myself. I can fix me but I can't fix her.

I do miss her from time to time. I really could have used her by my side when my father died. That was tough to weather alone. Conversely, she will be published in the New York Times tomorrow, her life long dream. I wish I could be with her for that too. For all I ever wanted for her was to experience joy. Knowing that one of her life goals will be realized tomorrow pleases me. I'll buy the paper.
 

Turniphead

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Around my 30th birthday, spending time playing games started to feel like a real waste of time. Up until then it was possibly me rebelling against the world who already thought gaming was a waste of time, but when I turned 30, I became more aware of the ticking clock. Hyper aware. When I sit down to play a game, I have this overwhelming nagging feeling that overcomes any joy I get from the game...

Interesting. Why do you think you get this feeling from games and not other mediums(assuming you don't)? Is it the medium itself, or is it the specific games you played?

Making a game though, does not cause me this anxiety. Learning to program is my stumbling block. I find programming fascinating and intimidating at the same time. I know that if I put my mind to it that I can do it. I felt at ease in my intro to C class in college. But it will require quite a lot of dedication to do it well. Reading Architect's thread makes me want to try again. I downloaded IntelliJ to futz around with. We'll see how it goes.

There are tools out there to make games without programming, or that will lead you into getting better at programming over time. I can point you to some if you feel the urge to make something.
 

not

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Interesting. Why do you think you get this feeling from games and not other mediums(assuming you don't)? Is it the medium itself, or is it the specific games you played?



There are tools out there to make games without programming, or that will lead you into getting better at programming over time. I can point you to some if you feel the urge to make something.

I still enjoy puzzle games like Hexic. I used to play a lot of fighting games, street fighter, mortal kombat, tekken, marvel, etc... I grew up with video games. Zelda, Mario Bros...

Part of it is sensory overload. Playing games makes me anxious. - I don't feel this way about watching films unless the film is really bad. I do get anxious watching TV commercials though. So games are not the only media that makes me anxious. When I see a commercial my mind delves into it trying to analyze how each shot is created. Can't watch a commercial without feeling anxious, or feeling the stress of creating commercials. The pressures. The deadlines. The expectations.

I had an idea for a puzzle game along the lines of Hexic, but it has been so long I cannot even remember the concept. I'd have to dive into my notes. - At some point I might take you up on your offer but I have more pressing needs right now.
 

Pizzabeak

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Yeah I sorta know what you mean concerning responsibilities in figuring out & dealing with any disagreements. I find it to be true for most human relationships, whether it be friendship or whatever. If it seems worth it to both people, they can continue seeing each other no matter how weird any moments get between the party members. They just write it up as normal human interaction, and take it day by day I guess.. Might be related to 'appreciating what you have in front of you'. However ethical/commendable/healthy it is, they always say it could be best to just work it out than having things end 'negatively'. If there are stressful situations due to differences in ideals or values people can either deal with one another for however long or just leave (and possibly come back later). But, I think one must ask whether any of the stressful moments are worth putting up with in the long run. If you love the person for whatever reason it might be, but it makes me wonder, especially considering a thing or two, whether it would actually be worth staying in a romantic relationship with such a characteristic.. Sometimes you might not have a choice or you appreciate what you have, but, well it can in some instances be acceptable to egress in hopes of finding a more compatible match, which might be kind of weird or selfish. As far as intp & enfj go, I'm sure some particular enfj broad could be a better match for an intp than some other particular enfj broad, which could be due to a few different factors.
So it's like a situation of knowing you both deserve better but stay anyway for some reason, attachment

Friendships might be kind of different in some regards

I dunno... One thing that could be taken into consideration which could make decision making slightly easier is the general consensus on 'destiny' and pre-determined things, which I'd like & need to expand on shortly. it's just, in my experience, the way certain things end up happening sort of make ya wonder sometimes. I don't know. I think there still might be a lot of things to take into consideration, but I'm not sure how advisable it is to consider these things in one's personal relationships. After a certain point too it seems pointless or silly to worry that much and it seems to want to prioritize more human earthly concerns as being more rational to pursue rather than other potentialities
Either way, I find the way interaction "works" to be interesting in that these beings all share the planet and more or less have to appeal to some thing in order to see some progression. But I don't know, it seems as if more context is needed or I'm not expressing the ideas as accurately as optimal.
 

not

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Sometimes what I want is irrelevant to the problem I am facing. For instance, I can only control my own actions and manage my own desires and feelings as best as I can. I cannot force a person to stay. If I feel they are making a mistake, I can argue my case, but I cannot make a decision for them. She has convinced herself that I am the source of all her problems. She will do what she wants. She may move on and discover later that she was wrong. She may also discover that even being wrong is not so bad if you find a more agreeable partner. - Meaning even if she never has to face her own responsibilities, she may get lucky in finding a partner that can deal with her idiosyncrasies better than I.
 
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