As an outsider

[just george]

I've been watching the US. The congress, the presidents, the laws, the crazy conversations, the media programming blitz, the pseudo conversations, the follow on internet conversations, the angst, the fights, the trolling, the foreign policy, the veterans, the occupiers, the police, the police training programs, the gun control debate, the constitutionalists, the preppers, the anti preppers, the propagandists, the networks, the population breakdowns, the election process, the electoral commission, the shennanaigans left and right, the occlusion of ron paul, the celebration of pelosi, the birth certificate debate, the madness of alex jones, the arrogance of piers morgan, the ignoring of napolitano - this whole mess of things, and a thought entered my mid a long time ago that I would like the input of INTPs on - the reset button. the life version of CTRL ALT DLT. So the question is -

How come no one has killed congress and wall street yet? Physically, I mean.

 

[TheScornedReflex]

People seem to be afraid to fight the power. It appears they are blind to the bigger picture also.

 

[just george]

uh. isnt the US the home of the brave and the land of the free? but theyre afraid to fight the...60 year old dudes in suits?

 

[joal0503]

what would murdering accomplish?

oh thats right, they convince the masses that you are an insane rogue group of terrorists that need to be eliminated. and now you have to fight a literal army of blood thirsty patriots.

the problem isnt entirely the system, a lot of the responsibility falls directly unto the mindless people.

 

[just george]

i was talking about the masses in the first place.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Why?

The political equivalent of NIMBY combined with the subsidized ignorance of the masses and a lack of campaign finance reform.

 

[joal0503]

i was talking about the masses in the first place.

you consider congress and the wallstreet junkies to be the 'masses"?

the cynic inside of me points out, as despicable and problematic as they are..they are the ones rising above the common man, and seenig the world for what it is...a sandbox to control and manipulate sheepeople for your own personal gain.

 

[Double_V]

Why?

The political equivalent of NIMBY combined with the subsidized ignorance of the masses and a lack of campaign finance reform.

+1

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

What you were watching was just reality shows. Trumped up crap for ratings. There are a class of people known as "political junkies". The eat the shit you watched up. In the entertainment news business, they are their niche market. Nothing more. I'm a part time one myself sometimes but I do know it's just a show. A distraction. Most US residents don't pay it much heed.

 

[Nezaros]

what would murdering accomplish?

oh thats right, they convince the masses that you are an insane rogue group of terrorists that need to be eliminated. and now you have to fight a literal army of blood thirsty patriots.

the problem isnt entirely the system, a lot of the responsibility falls directly unto the mindless people.

It's also just a bit... extreme. Plus, the higher-ups would just get replaced.

The system is the problem. Mindless people can't hold any responsibility, they're mindless. The point of the system is to accommodate those people so they can be used for something useful. The system does need to be reworked, but not by getting rid of people. That accomplishes absolutely nothing in the end. The US is working off an antiquated structure. Everything needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. But whether due to laziness, or useless tradition, it'll never happen.

 

[joal0503]

It's also just a bit... extreme. Plus, the higher-ups would just get replaced.

The system is the problem. Mindless people can't hold any responsibility, they're mindless. The point of the system is to accommodate those people so they can be used for something useful. The system does need to be reworked, but not by getting rid of people. That accomplishes absolutely nothing in the end. The US is working off an antiquated structure. Everything needs to be rebuilt from the ground up. But whether due to laziness, or useless tradition, it'll never happen.

The system MOST DEFINITELY has its problems, agreed...but at what point ARE WE responsible for allowing such rampant mindlessness? I think its the biggest issue, and the main obstacle we see with so many inactive amounts of unhappy people. Because at the end of the day, we do nothing. we accept it, and occupy our time with other meaningless tasks to keep us distracted. That is what I see at least. And based off of that, there HAS to be a degree of responsibility on the people. Ignorance is not a justification to be excused.

 

[Nissa]

People seem to be afraid to fight the power. It appears they are blind to the bigger picture also.

Well, you have to define "the bigger picture" there. And there has to be a replacement to the power one is fighting, or else the nearest powermonger will step in and just be the new problem. And that's also assuming that no one fights. Keep in mind you're just watching America on TV, and the media, as the arbiters of editing, are the ones that make the world look the way it does. Story lies in the editing, not in the facts.

It's always so weird to find a thread where people go, "Americans are so horrible/stupid/fat/conservative and they need to fix themselves". Americans are not a big set of exactly identical people bred by an evil scientist specifically to piss Europeans off. Although that would be funny if it were true.

 

[snafupants]

How come no one has killed congress and wall street yet? Physically, I mean.

I'm not sure haha. I heard AIG is attempting to sue the government for punitively high control of AIG/high interest rates in exchange for bailout money. Remember that AIG passed around bonuses post-bailout haha. I mean, that takes some balls.

http://business.time.com/2013/01/09...-suing-the-u-s-government-for-bailing-it-out/

@just george

But he remained a major shareholder through the U.S. government’s 2008 bailout of the company, when the feds took an 80% stake in the firm in exchange for an $85 billion loan, which saved the company from certain bankruptcy. (The bailout eventually ballooned to $182 billion loan in exchange for a 92% stake.)

Well sort of, but it’s probably not the point they would like to make. Greenberg argued in his initial 2011 complaint that the Federal Reserve gave out loans to many different financial services companies at lower interest rates, and without demanding that the government take a huge ownership stake in return.

Greenberg is demanding $25 billion in damages to make him and his fellow AIG shareholders whole.

The government would have liked nothing better than to allow AIG to fail, but the fact that the company sold protection against the very subprime mortgage securities that were bringing Wall Street down all around them made its survival paramount to the survival of the global financial system in general.

Yeah...too big to fail...that could be a problem moving forward.

The Washington Post called Greenberg’s view of the bailout “patently ridiculous.”

Haha but you can't call it unentertaining!

The end of the article becomes more nuanced...interesting stuff.

“The deal was a gross distortion of the normal functions of the market. In a bailout free world, instead of being saved by the government, AIG would have been unable to make its cash collateral payments to the banks and gone into bankruptcy. As a result, the banks would have been left with the CDOs and stuck with their continued declines in value . . . In that respect, Geithner’s opening of the spigot of taxpayer cash for AIG was more of a bailout of the banks than it was for AIG itself.”

 

[Nezaros]

The system MOST DEFINITELY has its problems, agreed...but at what point ARE WE responsible for allowing such rampant mindlessness? I think its the biggest issue, and the main obstacle we see with so many inactive amounts of unhappy people. Because at the end of the day, we do nothing. we accept it, and occupy our time with other meaningless tasks to keep us distracted. That is what I see at least. And based off of that, there HAS to be a degree of responsibility on the people. Ignorance is not a justification to be excused.

Who is "we"? The thinkers in society, presumably. No, ignorance is no excuse, but neither does it do any good to throw the blame onto people who know nothing. The only plausible solution is to educate the masses, and hopefully the problem will eventually fix itself.

 

[Cavallier]

Why is it always the crazies with the guns that shout about murdering lots of people?

*waits for thread to devolve into gun control rants*

I am tired, worn out maybe, by the endless sifting through bullshit in the news, liberal or conservative, in order to find something resembling facts and not just opinion. (I'm disgusted that we are being force fed this crap about two distinct political camps as if anyone with a brain and some level of individuality fits one side or the other.) So much of the time its just people arguing and getting off on their inflated sense of righteousness. I often watch international news about the states because at least their opinionated ''news'' has a different flavor.

I'm beginning to think that legitimately un-opinionated news is a myth.

 

[Nezaros]

I thought everybody knew, right-wing news organizations are funded by evil corporations, and left-wing news by the evil feds. Both work together to kill all attempts at unbiased / centrist networks.

 

[Da Blob]

Although ultimately a program of assassination may be the only means to rid humanity of the New Aristocracy/Ruling Class, those in Congress and on Wall Street are just corporate lackeys who prostitute their skills for some mystical status symbols granted by the Ruling Class to their most faithful lackeys. Note, the lackeys actually do not get any power, just a symbol of such status.

Lackeys are a dime a dozen, easy to replace...

What I have wondered about is the lack of a third party in the United States (?) considering the widespread discontent with Congress. A mere half dozen senators and a couple of dozen Representatives could exert tremendous influence, by casting the deciding votes on any number of issues.

 

[Nezaros]

What I have wondered about is the lack of a third party in the United States (?) considering the widespread discontent with Congress. A mere half dozen senators and a couple of dozen Representatives could exert tremendous influence, by casting the deciding votes on any number of issues.

Because the third parties are all either too varied, or too extreme, or most Americans just don't realize they exist / are viable.

 

[Cavallier]

I thought everybody knew, right-wing news organizations are funded by evil corporations, and left-wing news by the evil feds. Both work together to kill all attempts at unbiased / centrist networks.

Right. Thus, I'll be going back to my cave now.

Although ultimately a program of assassination may be the only means to rid humanity of the New Aristocracy/Ruling Class, those in Congress and on Wall Street are just corporate lackeys who prostitute their skills for some mystical status symbols granted by the Ruling Class to their most faithful lackeys. Note, the lackeys actually do not get any power, just a symbol of such status.

Lackeys are a dime a dozen, easy to replace...

 

[Kuu]

Answer half part 1: Because a vast amount of people are brainwashed
Answer half part 2: Most people, ignorant or not, have an aversion to the violence that would be necessary, not to mention the disagreements on what to do afterwards. Too much risk and effort for uncertain gains.

I shudder at the thought that the technological means of control and the vast planetary interdependence and thrall on machines could mean that we'll be stuck in these oppressive systems forever, only going backwards cyclically, until an inevitable self-destruction... It sure seems to me like a hopeless predicament. Is it possible, at this point in human history, to destroy these systems for good? To break this gilded (c)age?

 

[joal0503]

Who is "we"? The thinkers in society, presumably. No, ignorance is no excuse, but neither does it do any good to throw the blame onto people who know nothing. The only plausible solution is to educate the masses, and hopefully the problem will eventually fix itself.

we as in americans. you can educate the masses all you want, there have been efforts, but the populations continue to choose/buy into ignorance. i wont discount the powerful deception and coercion placed unto people, but i just feel like the people are the problem. there is no desire to leave the comfort of what we have, for a greater global cause.

 

[snafupants]

I'm beginning to think that legitimately un-opinionated news is a myth.

I discerned that in fifth grade. Every source has a bias, either in its content or tone. You can't report a story and comprehensively cover every aspect, past and present (maybe future), of it. You can't, moreover, present a news story with a total absence of tone bias and coloring. It's impossible. The fact that you're writing or saying anything is grounds for establishing a bias. The trick is to know the bias of certain stations, websites and papers and work around it.

 

[joal0503]

I discerned that in fifth grade. Every source has a bias, either in its content or tone. You can't report a story and comprehensively cover every aspect, past and present (maybe future), of it. You can't, moreover, present a news story with a total absence of tone bias and coloring. It's impossible. The fact that you're writing or saying anything is grounds for establishing a bias. The trick is to know the bias of certain stations, websites and papers and work around it.

news itself is a farce to begin with. things happen on a daily basis, the news is simply the selection of stories that are told to uphold the status quo/agenda. reality is, experience in the present, regardless of whether or not its been reported as news.

so i DO think there is some level of accuracy gained in simply being present for that particular event. aside from that, id agree there is no way to really capture the moment from every perspective and angle, let alone trying to wrap them all together in a nice little 2 minute segment...and again, for some strange reason it seems like folk somehow long to be apart of these events, from the comfort and safety of our living rooms.

jesus, i reread this ^ like 5 times, ive been awake for nearly 40 hours. it doesnt make any sense. omg. i need sleepy.

 

[snafupants]

news itself is a farce to begin with. things happen on a daily basis, the news is simply the selection of stories that are told to uphold the status quo/agenda.

Agreed but that's the bias right there! What's the status quo? Who benefits from it?

 

[joal0503]

Agreed but that's the bias right there! What's the status quo? Who benefits from it?

im just too bogged down right now for an honest answer, so ill resort to imagery.