Intelligence: Someone who is knows everything, except how to spell.
synoym: Grayman
small print: I am not liable for any false statements in this post. Do not believe anything I tell you. If you believe what I tell you at any moment in this post you should see a psychiatrist right away.
ps did you believe me when I said "Do not believe anything I tell you."?
How dare you hold me to Websterrs subjective standards of teh intellectz?
(But really, I'd argue attraction to intellect is pretty universal. Even if you're attracted to someone who is clearly.... stupid, that's really an attraction to your own intellect imho).
I can meet the hottest girl and then she opens her mouth and its like someone shat on her face. intelligence=attractiveness.
problem is I've not really met any intelligent females (nor males for that matter).
and intelligence, sure, it's very undefineable. but i just mean a girl who is even remotely philosophical of the world around her. I have no trouble attracting girls, just far too much trouble finding any girls who are actually interesting.
I dated a smart girl once. IT was awful. They're too independent. Give me a hottie that thinks with her feels any day.
But in all seriousness. I haven't met too many uber intelligent women that are all that interesting for romance. Of course she should have some smarts, but not more than me . I have a very fragile ego . I think I could be content with a woman of average intelligence. I know I could. The real question is, could they put up with me?
Cleverness is a different story. I like when women are clever. Humor and insight can go a long way.
But also, I really don't like the independence that often comes with extremely intelligent women. It goes against my conception of eros.
It depends on circumstance, and of course the proviso that intelligence is one of many aspects.
Suppose a woman is so intelligent that the only job suitable for her is to work in some very high level/stressful role, which in turn makes her crabby and stressed out all the time, then she would be less attractive to me overall than a less intelligent, fun to be around sort of person since attraction may be seen as a cumulative effect.
All other things being equal, then sure.
The more I think about it, the less sensible it is for me to date very intelligent women. If she ever got pregnant, the kid would just be a giant brain with no arms or legs. Not cool, man
I draw the line when she is smart enough to authentically question my authority! - I start with her physical appearance. If she passes the sight field test, then once she speaks I make the final determination of whether she falls into the 'date' or 'mate' categories. The threshold for sex is much lower than maintaining a relationship. I prefer girls that can hold a conversation, that have a positive outlook on life, that read and keep up with current affairs, that smell good, that cook, that won't talk through every damn movie, and if she is independently wealthy and willing to bankroll my INTP lifestyle, than she's definitely a keeper.
I don't want to be completely overshadowed in all aspects, but I'm sapiophile. I love it when I am outmanouvered in wit or pushed to my limit. If someone doesn't have a mental edge over me in some aspect I care about, I am extremely unlikely to find them romantically interesting and also quite unlikely to find them sexually interesting.
An intriguing portion of asymmetry in cognitive competence paired with relative closeness in general intelligence levels allures me. I want to swallow, bathe in and absorb what the elseperson brings out of herself and me.
I find the percentage of males in this thread uttering they would not feel comfortable lest they are absolutely mentally superior interesting considering the nature of this forum. I would enjoy more elaborations and shared self-analysis as to why this is so, and whether they are content with this preference remaining as it is.
I would also like to know how this affects your general interactions with friends, acquaintances and strangers belonging to your preferred sex and how you deal with and what you think about that. Both those you are somewhat attracted to and those you are not attracted to.
I want to be with someone who can win against me about as often as I do; otherwise, debating becomes lecturing by one party unto the other. Ideally, she also has some capabilities that I lack, e.g., insight into people.
Absolutely. I don't care how good-looking someone is, if they aren't at least as intelligent as me (and I'm not being snobby, I mean if I say something to them, I don't want to see that blank, 'huh?' look on their face) then I am not interested. Smart is sexy.
On the other hand, if they're as smart or smarter, and condescending about it, that's a no-go too. I don't need it rubbed in my face that I'm not as smart - teach me and help me learn, or keep your mouth shut.
Intelligence and general insight into people, systems and situations have -always- been attractive to me. But i'ts rare that I've encountered this... well to simplify it; ability to combine system thinking and empathy. Quite a few limit themselves to understanding one side of an issue, neglecting multiple factors that contribute to a situation/ system.
It's a terrible thing to witness. Flawed and inaccurate assumptions regarding a system or of people are often born. Instead of understanding a topic based on its own premises, there are feeble attempts to understand the alien subject through one's own specialized, thus narrowed, perspective.
I don't want to be completely overshadowed in all aspects, but I'm sapiophile. I love it when I am outmanouvered in wit or pushed to my limit. If someone doesn't have a mental edge over me in some aspect I care about, I am extremely unlikely to find them romantically interesting and also quite unlikely to find them sexually interesting.
An intriguing portion of asymmetry in cognitive competence paired with relative closeness in general intelligence levels allures me. I want to swallow, bathe in and absorb what the elseperson brings out of herself and me.
I find the percentage of males in this thread uttering they would not feel comfortable lest they are absolutely mentally superior interesting considering the nature of this forum. I would enjoy more elaborations and shared self-analysis as to why this is so, and whether they are content with this preference remaining as it is.
I would also like to know how this affects your general interactions with friends, acquaintances and strangers belonging to your preferred sex and how you deal with and what you think about that. Both those you are somewhat attracted to and those you are not attracted to.
I find the percentage of males in this thread uttering they would not feel comfortable lest they are absolutely mentally superior interesting considering the nature of this forum. I would enjoy more elaborations and shared self-analysis as to why this is so, and whether they are content with this preference remaining as it is.
*nods* these responses surprise me slightly as well. (and welcome back, btw. ).
I think in my best friendships considerations of intellectual superiority and inferiority haven't been an issue, as we contrast enough that there's room for compatibility and growth. I don't think I could date someone I couldn't relate to intellectually, but there are other factors besides.
I've never liked sparring matches anyway though, if someone makes every conversation a contest I quickly get fed up with them.
I find the percentage of males in this thread uttering they would not feel comfortable lest they are absolutely mentally superior interesting considering the nature of this forum. I would enjoy more elaborations and shared self-analysis as to why this is so, and whether they are content with this preference remaining as it is.
I would also like to know how this affects your general interactions with friends, acquaintances and strangers belonging to your preferred sex and how you deal with and what you think about that. Both those you are somewhat attracted to and those you are not attracted to.
I recognize two types of relationships, both in general and in relation to sapiophily. The first is very much a partner in crime thing. Mutually complimentary, challenging, stimulating, and enjoyable. One seeks intelligence as an equal.
The second is a clear dominant and submissive dynamic. Some are attracted to others who suffocate them in their own ego. They enjoy being stepped upon, and the stepper enjoys the stepping.
I see a lot of general insecurity in this thread that I believe to be the result of being caught inbetween these two ideals.
I find myself open to either, if not both. I also recognize a more animalistic urge that tends to categorize the "ugly" with the submissive (which doesn't exclude them demonstrating their abilities which may well exceed my own and thus make me into their bitch ).
I was married once, and my wife was extremely smart. We were matched wit for wit, but it does get tiring after awhile, especially when she starts to dictate how things are to be. When you are exploring an interesting topic together, there is nothing better than a smart girl keeping up and even keeping you on your toes. But in the mundane, in the everyday, day to day things, it is a challenge to be around someone who pushes you, or argues, fights about every little thing. Sometimes the answer is 'Just because.' It gets old being constantly challenged. - I don't know that I would fare better with someone with a lessor intellect, because I have not tried it. I'd imagine I'd get bored. I'm not dating at all now, and I am happier.
Yes, and it consistently screws with my life/love life. If someone's intelligence meshes with mine I will find them intensely attractive and overlook all sorts of flaws or former dealbreakers.
I also think I have a hard time determining whether I find something hot or just interesting. But then I guess for me curiosity is kind of my life force and linked to arousal in every sense.
I find the percentage of males in this thread uttering they would not feel comfortable lest they are absolutely mentally superior interesting considering the nature of this forum. I would enjoy more elaborations and shared self-analysis as to why this is so, and whether they are content with this preference remaining as it is.
I think for me, It's a sort of Pygmalion complex. Not saying it's healthy or right. Perhaps it's just the ideal I hold in my mind after being burned by so many women. The submissive, dependent, blank slate.
On the converse I have a desire to be almost a foot stool for a woman. The servant that takes care of her needs first and ignoring mine. Her happiness above all else. I would feel useful and needed. Important.
I think I hold two ideals at once. I was told by a friend that is deep in the dominate submissive community, that I could easily pass between both roles. She says that's rare in a man. Perhaps I need both to feel complete. Considering I haven't been in a romantic relationship in over 6 years, I don't know yet.
To give some anime examples. Tohru Honda, from Fruits Basket, is a perfect woman to me. She has a meek personality. A total servant. Cares for other over herself. She's not really stupid, just naive. She cares about what the other person cares about.
On the other hand you Holo, from Spice an Wolf. She is also a perfect partner in my mind. I'm actually having trouble articulating what it is about her that is attractive. She's a far cry from unintelligent. hmm... well... shit. At a lose for words at the moment. Some one feel free to help me out here lol. (I might update this later.)
I guess what I'm saying, is that high intelligence isn't a must in my mind. It could be a plus, but I don't want it to be the main feature. I think Not, kind of explained the result of that. It would tire me. I wouldn't want a dispute to come down to a battle of wits. Challenged at ever corner. That probably is my weak, scared ego. But is so wrong that I'm this way?
There seems to be some sentiment here that intelligence in a person is going to create a problem. Why is that? I'm in a relationship with a highly intelligent person; it is the first time in my long history of relationships that I can speak freely without filtering out of fear of "challenging" the other person. Other men I have been with hated the fact that I was just as able as them to come up with solutions to problems normally belonging to their domain, or ask questions when the logic seemed to be missing. Why is this seen as such a problem?
My father always taught me the same things he taught my brother. My mother did the same. They did not treat us differently because we were different sexes. So when I encounter attitudes like these, I am thoroughly baffled.
I want to be with someone who can win against me about as often as I do; otherwise, debating becomes lecturing by one party unto the other. Ideally, she also has some capabilities that I lack, e.g., insight into people.
This pretty much encompasses my issue. I've never been with someone who could offer me some insight. It is always me lecturing and teaching them to be half as intelligent as I am.
I'm worried that I am growing up very narrow minded simply because of the absence of anyone in my life who is smart enough to ever convince me I'm wrong. I don't think its healthy to never be proved wrong.
Personally I would want the person to be more intelligent that way she can go out and work in a big business/lawyer job and I can stay home and play with the kids!
There seems to be some sentiment here that intelligence in a person is going to create a problem. Why is that? I'm in a relationship with a highly intelligent person; it is the first time in my long history of relationships that I can speak freely without filtering out of fear of "challenging" the other person. Other men I have been with hated the fact that I was just as able as them to come up with solutions to problems normally belonging to their domain, or ask questions when the logic seemed to be missing. Why is this seen as such a problem?
Because it makes us feel weak and useless. I'm sure there is an aspect of immaturity in the previous men you have dated. But I wonder how you presented the solution or questions. I find myself reacting negatively to being corrected, in general.
What is different about the person you are currently with? What is it about your dynamics that make him relaxed with you? I would actually be quite interested. Latte's and your question have got me thinking about myself.
Yes, in my experience.
NFs seem to have less of a problem with it...and be less concerned with power or even into the idea of being more submissive. [see: Gopher's comment]
NTs like having an intelligent partner but want to be the *more* intelligent one.
And sensors have no idea what to do with me and find me cold, off-putting, superior, antagonistic, bitchy, etc.
Because it makes us feel weak and useless. I'm sure there is an aspect of immaturity in the previous men you have dated. But I wonder how you presented the solution or questions. I find myself reacting negatively to being corrected, in general.
Why does it make men feel weak and useless? I think I know the answer, but I would like to hear it from you as I am genuinely curious. You seem to be someone of high integrity and intellect so I find this a little contradictory as you would have no reason to feel this way.
Whenever I have had the feeling of being weak and useless it has usually been in connection with some bout of depression which makes me descend into some insecurity realm. It is temporary though. Don't know if that resonates with you.
Yes, there were various aspects of immaturity in some of the men (the ones that had issues with my outspokenness/resolve). I didn't just date them, I have been in 4 very long relationships since I was about 19, one of them I was married to for 8 years. They were: ESFJ/ESFP/ESFP/ESFJ, in that order.....obviously there is a pattern here
I am very careful how I present ideas and solutions. I would usually wait until I could see there was a problem and then present my solutions. This was often brushed aside or I was criticised for "meddling" in an area that wasn't traditionally female. I happened to have the knowledge, so I couldn't understand why I couldn't offer a solution just because I was the wrong gender. To be honest, though, the guys that took offense to this were both highly insecure types who often clashed with people generally, not just me. When one of them attempted to drag me down the street by my hair because I happened to ask the wrong question at the wrong time, I finally lost my patience. I have encountered plenty of this kind of intimidation when the other person run out of arguments, but it was never my attention to demonstrate some sort of superiority or whatever. I am used to being involved in decision making regardless of my gender from my own cultural background, so this attitude was new and foreign to me. My input was taken personally.
Lot said:
What is different about the person you are currently with? What is it about your dynamics that make him relaxed with you? I would actually be quite interested. Latte's and your question have got me thinking about myself.
I got to know my current partner intellectually before we even met in person. I fell in love with his person, not the physical aspect of it. He was the same. So we already had this mutual understanding, respect and admiration for each other which proved to be even stronger in person. I told him about all my issues of the past; the complaints other men have had about me, etc. He got all the gory details before I wanted to meet in person, so there were no illusions about who I really was. He still loves me for exactly what I am and I him. When I speak my mind he really enjoys it; he says it makes him think and consider new perspectives that he hadn't considered before. When he corrects me, I am deeply humbled because I know that the reason he corrects me is a very good one; he would not say anything without having thought deeply about it or checked the facts first. So I sit up and pay attention when he speaks.
Because he doesn't take my questions personally, it is a lot easier for us to communicate. I am similarly inclined; if someone gives me critical feedback, I know it has nothing to do with my person. It makes me look inside myself and search for whatever it is that has made me stuck in some way or other.
We are playmates, lovers and both very scientifically inclined. We are both quite blunt and say exactly what is on our minds. I find this raw honesty extremely liberating and I must say it is the first time in my life I have felt truly happy. Someone who understands me and loves me unconditionally for it. It is rare, and I would never gamble it away. I have even told him that I am okay with him sleeping with other women as long as he is loyal to me; I want him to be free from any shackles.
I think it is a common problem for NT women. We are very balanced on the male/female brain thing. Male patterns of thinking in a female body.
I don't know how much of this is social conditioning, but I suspect upbringing has a lot to do with attitudes to one's own gender and others. There are certain cultures that seem more obsessed with gender roles than others. I wasn't brought up with this, so these concepts are rather foreign to me. I know there are biological differences between male and female, of course. But to say that we are totally male or female by some binary default is very limiting, in my view. We all carry elements of both, to lesser or stronger degrees, which is why it is important to avoid generalisations.
Yes, in my experience.
NFs seem to have less of a problem with it...and be less concerned with power or even into the idea of being more submissive. [see: Gopher's comment]
NTs like having an intelligent partner but want to be the *more* intelligent one.
And sensors have no idea what to do with me and find me cold, off-putting, superior, antagonistic, bitchy, etc.
Personally I would want the person to be more intelligent that way she can go out and work in a big business/lawyer job and I can stay home and play with the kids!
Wait people are serious when they say there is a limit to how intelligent they want their partner to be? I guess if they were miles ahead of me I might feel inadequate? But otherwise I don't really understand.
Intelligence is a prized trait in sexual selection. You want smart people to help raise your smart babies.
As for me, I'm not so much turned on by intelligence, as turned off by stupidity. Not only that, but if you're going to demonstrate your intelligence to me, you need to do it subtly rather than standing there reciting Pi to the X decimal. There are not enough funny women IMO.
Latte and me could always use a maid. Two days drinking only tea and hot chocolate because both too lazy to make food ._______.
I was married once, and my wife was extremely smart. We were matched wit for wit, but it does get tiring after awhile, especially when she starts to dictate how things are to be. When you are exploring an interesting topic together, there is nothing better than a smart girl keeping up and even keeping you on your toes. But in the mundane, in the everyday, day to day things, it is a challenge to be around someone who pushes you, or argues, fights about every little thing. Sometimes the answer is 'Just because.' It gets old being constantly challenged. - I don't know that I would fare better with someone with a lessor intellect, because I have not tried it. I'd imagine I'd get bored. I'm not dating at all now, and I am happier.
Intelligent women does not equal nagging women. Someone who uses the phrase "just because" a lot, doesn't give a immediate impression of someone of wits.
One of the positive things about very intelligent people is that they can see through stereotypical phrases and behaviors- and mock them. Or point them out when one realize one is doing it themselves.
So instead of "just because", you'd hear something along the lines of "I shall now give you an arbitrary, nonsensical reply which will obviousate the superiority of my statement".
Though, in a lot of marriages, the problem over time is that both start to take each other for granted and say stuff like "just because". Was that a problem from the beginning of your relationship, or did it happen later? Did you ever tell her that you felt overrun by her opinions? Sometimes people wont realize that they can be a bit dominating.
I can meet the hottest girl and then she opens her mouth and its like someone shat on her face. intelligence=attractiveness.
problem is I've not really met any intelligent females (nor males for that matter).
and intelligence, sure, it's very undefineable. but i just mean a girl who is even remotely philosophical of the world around her. I have no trouble attracting girls, just far too much trouble finding any girls who are actually interesting.
It's probable that you have met girls like that, but you have not been in a situation with them where they could express those thoughts. You sound relatively young, that could be a part of the reason it's more difficult to flush them out.
Actually, generally there will be different social network groups. If you have some nerdy friends who have some nerdy friends who have some nerdy friends, then you'll frequently find yourself surrounded by intelligent people. But if your friends are more standard A4 normal individuals, then their friends will be A4 and their friends... etc
Suppose a woman is so intelligent that the only job suitable for her is to work in some very high level/stressful role, which in turn makes her crabby and stressed out all the time, then she would be less attractive to me overall than a less intelligent, fun to be around sort of person since attraction may be seen as a cumulative effect.
I think that's applicable to a minority of intelligent women. You don't need to be stressed about work all the time to be stimulated.
This pretty much encompasses my issue. I've never been with someone who could offer me some insight. It is always me lecturing and teaching them to be half as intelligent as I am.
What is your definition of being intelligent? It sounds like it might be correlated with knowledge. They might have something to contribute that you have overlooked because of your perspective of intelligence.
It's not what people say that expose them, it's more accurate to try to estimate how they would have to think to say what they do. How many factors do they take into account, what aspects do they look at, how far does their line of reasoning go, how well can they estimate what other people think.
I don't enjoy absolute statements, unless the statement is undeniably the truth and I have a hard time taking a stand on a topic for long, as in I tend to incorporate new information into my understanding of the subject rather quickly.
Menuend, You are right, an intelligent woman does not have to equate to a nagging woman. I will be honest and say that I do not know what to like or dislike until I have experienced it, and I will be the first to admit that just because my wife was both intelligent and annoying doesn't mean that she was annoying because she was intelligent. - I have never dated another INTP. I don't even know for sure if I have even met another INTP. So maybe I'd get along with an INTP spouse easier. Then again, maybe not. - What I find though, is that I am able to get along without dating at all. If I meet someone that is intelligent and also easy to get along with, then maybe I'll date again. For now, I will say that I used to be highly attracted to intelligence, and possibly without applying logic or reason, I have developed a false aversion to intelligent women possibly based on a misunderstanding of a prior experience. But, maybe intelligent woman does equal annoying woman. The statement has not been proven false yet either.
I can imagine meeting a woman that is both intelligent and easy to get along with, and conventional wisdom says that if you can imagine it, it is possible.
I talking this over with my mother, father, and older brother's girlfriend about this. I'm not sure if it's in grained in most men, because of genetics or culture. But there a sense that the man should be able to know how to take care of his affairs on his own. It's the responsibility of the man to take care of her needs. When she knows better than him, it's showing his inadequacy. Or at least I think that's what it is.
I did a bunch of research on the topic in the last two days (not to say I went to the bottom of the lego bucket). I think that men are insecure. We have a pressure on us to perform. Why many men don't like asking for direction. When we can't do something, on our own, it hurts our pride.
Of course this is a silly line of logic. Romantic relationships are a partnership. If we could do it all on our own, we wouldn't need someone to help us.
I feel like you expected a more profound answer. I wish I had one. I can assure you I'll continue to be thinking on this for quite some time.
I like it when the breasts is large and the booty is firm.
In all seriousness, though, yes, intelligence is appealing. It's appealing to everybody, though, so I'm not sure at exactly which point it becomes a "philia". I mean, do you refuse to have sex with a chick who doesn't have a PhD? I would only ever seriously date a smart chick, but I'm down with sexy-time with someone who's merely physically attractive, too.
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. I have a very fragile ego 
. I think I could be content with a woman of average intelligence. I know I could. The real question is, could they put up with me? 
).
).
Norway here I come!
. When we can't do something, on our own, it hurts our pride. 
