Anyone familiar with the INTP rut?

[Sir Eus Lee]

I've found a lot of barriers in every direction. I know i'm capable of doing whatever I put my mind to, but with limited resources and a lot of annoying restrictions everywhere I don't know what to do. Life is really annoying me, it seems like everything is lined up just to work perfectly contrary to how I wish it was set up, or the way that would work with me the most.

I think i'm stuck in a rut of wanting to go several directions in life and doing things certain ways, but I'm mad at the world for being the way it is, and it's eating at me. Traditional education routes are stupid and unnecessary. Jobs don't hire kids in high school. And at the same moment I really don't know if theres any route I really do want to take in the end. I know this is somewhat weirdly said, but i'm sure you get the idea.

I think the IP mentality isn't working. I'm stuck between picking something and rolling with it and the fear that whatever I pick is going to be a bad choice, and there seems to be no clear option anywhere.

Said shortly, have you gone through this? What was/is your solution, if you have one? Suggestions?

 

[Black Rose]

This happened to me. I went into a deep depression after graduation and went to a halfway house then to an apartment all alone. The best advice i can give is to find some friends. They will keep and sustain you no matter what happens. Friend can be found anywhere but mostly you should ask your teaches and your parents and class mates what they like to do and if they will do things with you. If you finds something you like study it, make no commitments but just to gain understanding. Later you can discover if there is anything that gives you passion and devote yourself to it. Computers are good and so is art. Language is also important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath

 

[StevenM]

Said shortly, have you gone through this? What was/is your solution, if you have one? Suggestions?

I'm being puppeteered by a marionette whose strings are like mine, tangled.

However, the negative attitude may feed back into itself. Confirmation bias, and the general direct reaction of behaviour stemming from, will make you more assured of the hopelessness.

It might be fun to think of it as a very lucid role-playing game. There are some neat routes not ever thought of, or travelled by. Being creative, there are many ways to find an avenue to sustenance.

But first, gotta break free from the strings, and attain freedom. Which is just part of that journey.

 

[Rook]

There is no conflicting route if you burn it down in your birthday suite.

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

The best advice i can give is to find some friends. They will keep and sustain you no matter what happens. Friend can be found anywhere but mostly you should ask your teaches and your parents and class mates what they like to do and if they will do things with you. If you finds something you like study it, make no commitments but just to gain understanding. Later you can discover if there is anything that gives you passion and devote yourself to it. Computers are good and so is art. Language is also important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polymath

Those sound like a good ideas. I'll mull over them and the rest of my life and see if I get back to ya. You also seem to have a large base of random things. That fact that you came up with that page suggests you embody a "polymath." (which I think i'm mispronouncing in my mind.)

I'm being puppeteered by a marionette whose strings are like mine, tangled.

However, the negative attitude may feed back into itself. Confirmation bias, and the general direct reaction of behaviour stemming from, will make you more assured of the hopelessness.

It might be fun to think of it as a very lucid role-playing game. There are some neat routes not ever thought of, or travelled by. Being creative, there are many ways to find an avenue to sustenance.

But first, gotta break free from the strings, and attain freedom. Which is just part of that journey.

Yeah, its just hard to cut them when confimation bias makes spiderwebs in the air look so uncuttable... I'll try.

There is no conflicting route if you burn it down in your birthday suite.

This advice is from experience, I imagine?

 

[Minuend]

Well, even if you pick a bad route now, you can just do something else after a few years. At least if you pick something with an income, save money and then you have more freedom doing something more risky or something that might give low income.

You don't have to choose one thing and then stick with it forever. Unless there is some economic/ health/ other barrier.

Even if you want to "fight the system" you don't have to do it right now. You could take advantage of the system for 10 years then do something else.

Even bad choices give you insight and experience. You learn from your mistakes (hopefully) and perhaps you end up with people or situations foreign which will grant you a broader perspective on things.

So yeah, ideally you'll live for like 60+ more years, so there's plenty of years to explore career paths, the world and maybe a few to do a revolution.

 

[INTPWolf]

yepp im deeeep in it right now. i have recently made a small chunk of money from stocks, so i quit my job and went on a roadtrip, then decided to move down to texas with some of my family ( ive lived in Alaska my whole life btw ). Now its a month later and im back from my roadtrip, and all im doing is staying at my mothers house, doing chores and stalking forums while i try to figure out what to do with this money. I in no way possible want another clock punching job. I could get a 3d Printer and start making things to sell, i could get a mill and make my own mods, I could start that vape shop ive been wanting to start for a long time now, i could do so many damn things, but i only have enough to get a good start on one thing. I can not make up my mind, So in the mean time i just rot.

Its not all that much money, and i dont want to waste it. My stocks are rising rather fast, so sitting on them for a lil bit isn't too bad an option either, But i have this feeling in my gut that shit is going to hit the fan by the end of the year and i need to pull stocks before they plummet.

And before all of this i had a plan, i was going to start college, but that never took just because of my sheer indecisive laziness.

 

[Haim]

This world suck?
Change it,create other world,visit other worlds(games?)

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I've found a lot of barriers in every direction. I know i'm capable of doing whatever I put my mind to, but with limited resources and a lot of annoying restrictions everywhere I don't know what to do. Life is really annoying me, it seems like everything is lined up just to work perfectly contrary to how I wish it was set up, or the way that would work with me the most.

I think i'm stuck in a rut of wanting to go several directions in life and doing things certain ways, but I'm mad at the world for being the way it is, and it's eating at me. Traditional education routes are stupid and unnecessary. Jobs don't hire kids in high school. And at the same moment I really don't know if theres any route I really do want to take in the end. I know this is somewhat weirdly said, but i'm sure you get the idea.

I think the IP mentality isn't working. I'm stuck between picking something and rolling with it and the fear that whatever I pick is going to be a bad choice, and there seems to be no clear option anywhere.

Said shortly, have you gone through this? What was/is your solution, if you have one? Suggestions?

Prioritize. Cut Back. Focus on 1 thing only? When I'm in your state of mind as you describe it here its the only effective thing I have found that works for my INTP rut.

Amount of time it takes to get out of the rut depends on the depth of the rut.

Sometimes it can take less than 24 hours. Sometimes it can take weeks.

One time in my life, recently, it took months to get out of the rut.

The fact that you are asking questions means you are halfway out of the rut already most likely. Self awareness is most of the battle.

 

[Sinny91]

I can relate OP. It's like in the last 3 years I've done everything I was 'supposed' to do to get to where I wanted, and yet the universe appeared to have alternative plans for me.

At every challenge that presented it's self I went in and tackled it head strong, chose every logical avenue to go down, and yet, circumstance didn't and still hasn't cut me a break once.

Every obstacle and barrier I've torn down has been replaced with a taller more durable one.

I feel as though if I were to let even one of these barriers defeat me, my whole castle of cards would come crashing down around me... Pisses me off, if it weren't for the green and some of my beloved friends, I dread to think how I would cope.

 

[Sixup]

Yep. Been in that rut several times. Sometimes it lasts a day, sometimes weeks. Never really went into anything I'd consider a depression though.

I've noticed that the rut starts when I have things I want/need to do, but for whatever reason I don't/can't do them for a period of time.

So the best thing I've found is to do -something- that progresses me towards a goal of mine. Sometimes this is easier said than done, while in the rut.

As far as figuring out what the goal is...that's tough. I guess like others have said, just pick something even if it's small, and go towards it. If the goal has to change down the line, that's ok.

 

[Seteleechete]

What I really want to do is impossible as such I just do what I will be content with and more importantly don't do what I will dislike. I know I will be content at best with anything I do as such I focus a lot more on avoiding what I don't want to do.

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

Prioritize. Cut Back. Focus on 1 thing only? When I'm in your state of mind as you describe it here its the only effective thing I have found that works for my INTP rut.

Amount of time it takes to get out of the rut depends on the depth of the rut.
The fact that you are asking questions means you are halfway out of the rut already most likely. Self awareness is most of the battle.

I just realized everything last night, I had actually stopped thinking through things from small but progressive Fe fears and deterrents.. So I did realize the real issue, but breaking free is a different thing. Prioritizing would help if I had the motivation to get things done. Of of the large issues is I don't know if going in any direction will get me to where I want, and I don't even know what I want.

I can relate OP. It's like in the last 3 years I've done everything I was 'supposed' to do to get to where I wanted, and yet the universe appeared to have alternative plans for me.

As always.

Yep. Been in that rut several times. Sometimes it lasts a day, sometimes weeks. Never really went into anything I'd consider a depression though.

Same here.

I've noticed that the rut starts when I have things I want/need to do, but for whatever reason I don't/can't do them for a period of time.

So the best thing I've found is to do -something- that progresses me towards a goal of mine. Sometimes this is easier said than done, while in the rut.

As far as figuring out what the goal is...that's tough. I guess like others have said, just pick something even if it's small, and go towards it. If the goal has to change down the line, that's ok.

Very familiar with these trains of thoughts. I'll try. Thanks.

 

[EditorOne]

I'm sorry and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but when I saw the subject line the image that leaped into my mind was dozens of horny INTPs running through the forest looking for mates....

Back to your regular programming.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

I'm sorry and I don't mean to hijack the thread, but when I saw the subject line the image that leaped into my mind was dozens of horny INTPs running through the forest looking for mates....

Back to your regular programming.

 

[Rook]

Well I already ran that simulation, they proceeded to cower in caves unsure what to do with their strange fiddly bits.

 

[computerhxr]

Said shortly, have you gone through this? What was/is your solution, if you have one? Suggestions?

I've spent my life in this "rut" and it has its ups and downs. It took me a long time to realize this, but the world isn't really designed well for an INTP. Everyone seems to take the easy route and just punch in and punch out. They give you advice that fits how they live, but not necessarily for how you want to live.

I took the difficult path and have paid the consequences.

Recently, I decided to just play life like a game. Things are much easier now. The more you understand, the less risky gambling with your life is. I had reservations about this for a very long time because I have a very strong Cognitive Empathy. At the same time, nearly everyone else uses Emotional Empathy and have very little understanding for someone who things like me. Just have to design a situation that works best for yourself first, and then make it work with consideration for others.

I would much rather be the one pulling the strings, than the puppet controlled by my awareness of them. Others aren't so aware of the string that they are bound by. Ignorance is bliss.

 

[Inquisitor]

Work: Just study computer science. Get the formal education. Become a software jockey.

Health: Study Ayurveda. Find an Indian Ayurvedic physician.

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

Work: Just study computer science. Get the formal education. Become a software jockey.

Can't argue with that.

Well, guys, looks like I have my life set up perfectly. So long, and thanks for all the fish.

 

[Sir Eus Lee]

I can relate OP. It's like in the last 3 years I've done everything I was 'supposed' to do to get to where I wanted, and yet the universe appeared to have alternative plans for me.

Yup.

Pisses me off, if it weren't for the green and some of my beloved friends, I dread to think how I would cope.

We'd probably just have to take a deep breath, and become an EJ.

 

[Sabreena]

Yep. I've been in that rut for a few years now. It's gotten worse in the past year because I started college, and now everybody actually expects things from you, expects you to have SOME idea where you're going.

The system is messed up. I took a socy class last semester and was shocked by just how messed up it is. It's no longer about education, but about credentialism. The diploma is more important than the actual material. The current school system (in America) was created during the 1900s after the Industrial Revolution, to sort kids into a kind of factory line. "Smart" kids get more oppurtunity, the general population is just left with 12 years of shitty pointless information drilled into them. Nowadays there's class and race complications that make it hard for some people to rise up in socioeconomic status, because so many resources are reserved for rich people. Case in point: the SAT is one of the most acurate tests in showing social class, because the average scores simply increase as you move up the ladder.

I read something once about how INTPs tend to not lke the system because it mostly caters to SJ types, and is focused on the acquisition of knowledge not for its own sake but as a stepping stone towards a goal.

For most of my life, I was the "teacher's pet." Quiet, intelligent, willing to do whatever I was told. I was truly interested in my schoolwork by default. It kept me busy, was relatively easy.
But from 14-15 years until now (I'm 18), I've not been doing as well. Up until then, it was nothing but a game.

Then people started talkiing about college and careers and everythiing stressed me out. (Well, Ihad other issues on top of school.) But I was able to get things done (despite extreme procrastination) and get a 3.8 GPA and a relatively high SAT score. The lack of motivation is really detrimental to my grades.

I don't know if that's the case for you, but I certainly don't know what I'm doing, and it affects my education.

 

[Architect]

INTP thinking is essentially existential. It starts with Ti, which simply means an INTP is motivated and comfortable thinking and analyzing systems. It leads to Ne behaviors, which INTP's prefer to use to gather information. This takes them out into the world to find systems for the Ti 'comfort zone' to analyze and destroy. Ne quickly goes big - as big as the Universe and we know a lot about that already. Ti, being introverted, is also highly self interested so the Ne motivation leads to the life of the INTP, his/her place in the world, career, upbringing and such.

Contrast this with another Ti dominant, the ISTP. Their secondary - Se - goes out to the world and finds exactly what it wants. The INTP has Se in the trickster archetype, which often gives INTP's a sense of physical deviancy. But the ISTP is happy to stop there, as their Ti finds ample analysis in physical systems like cars, engineering and such. So we rarely see ISTP's who are self questioning. A possible exception is Woody Allen, who could surprisingly be an ISTP, yet whose movies lean more in the INTP existential camp. An ISTP with a strong dose of intuition perhaps.

So back to the INTP, you have an existential existence, which means an individual who cannot help but question and analyze the nature and meaning of existence from high to low. When high (thinking of our place in the Universe) it easily leads to nihilism. But when low, INTP's will also happily analyze the best design for a toilet. When directed at the self and the career, INTP's have a strong tendency to keep questioning their life, treating it as a system. So they can easily get caught in a Möbius loop. This is a trap (cue Admiral Akbar), as just when ready to take action, the questioning will stop it.

But this isn't a given. Consider, it's not a-priori that INTP's are indecisive. There are many systems you/we don't question. Either because they're already analyzed, uninteresting or too simple. Or even just accepted. So the point is that it's a good skill for an INTP to learn how to direct their motivations in such a way as to channel them in the directions they choose, rather than by happenstance. There are examples of this, the best being that Einstein didn't appear to question himself very much.

Each type has a unique set of strengths, and likewise a unique set of traps, in a Greek Hero fashion (c.f. Achilles). The mandate for an individual is to understand themselves and learn to be their own best manager.

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

Yep. I've been in that rut for a few years now. It's gotten worse in the past year because I started college, and now everybody actually expects things from you, expects you to have SOME idea where you're going.

The system is messed up. I took a socy class last semester and was shocked by just how messed up it is. It's no longer about education, but about credentialism. The diploma is more important than the actual material. The current school system (in America) was created during the 1900s after the Industrial Revolution, to sort kids into a kind of factory line. "Smart" kids get more oppurtunity, the general population is just left with 12 years of shitty pointless information drilled into them. Nowadays there's class and race complications that make it hard for some people to rise up in socioeconomic status, because so many resources are reserved for rich people. Case in point: the SAT is one of the most acurate tests in showing social class, because the average scores simply increase as you move up the ladder.

I read something once about how INTPs tend to not lke the system because it mostly caters to SJ types, and is focused on the acquisition of knowledge not for its own sake but as a stepping stone towards a goal.

For most of my life, I was the "teacher's pet." Quiet, intelligent, willing to do whatever I was told. I was truly interested in my schoolwork by default. It kept me busy, was relatively easy.
But from 14-15 years until now (I'm 18), I've not been doing as well. Up until then, it was nothing but a game.

Then people started talkiing about college and careers and everythiing stressed me out. (Well, Ihad other issues on top of school.) But I was able to get things done (despite extreme procrastination) and get a 3.8 GPA and a relatively high SAT score. The lack of motivation is really detrimental to my grades.

I don't know if that's the case for you, but I certainly don't know what I'm doing, and it affects my education.

I think I know what you speak of in terms of the US education system.

Education beyond high school didn't used to be like this IMO 20 years ago in college. The US education system has become mindnumbingly conformist.

Do your best, and get the hell out. Real life is so much more full of raw opportunity.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

 

[DrGregoryHouse]

INTP thinking is essentially existential. It starts with Ti, which simply means an INTP is motivated and comfortable thinking and analyzing systems. It leads to Ne behaviors, which INTP's prefer to use to gather information. This takes them out into the world to find systems for the Ti 'comfort zone' to analyze and destroy. Ne quickly goes big - as big as the Universe and we know a lot about that already. Ti, being introverted, is also highly self interested so the Ne motivation leads to the life of the INTP, his/her place in the world, career, upbringing and such.

Contrast this with another Ti dominant, the ISTP. Their secondary - Se - goes out to the world and finds exactly what it wants. The INTP has Se in the trickster archetype, which often gives INTP's a sense of physical deviancy. But the ISTP is happy to stop there, as their Ti finds ample analysis in physical systems like cars, engineering and such. So we rarely see ISTP's who are self questioning. A possible exception is Woody Allen, who could surprisingly be an ISTP, yet whose movies lean more in the INTP existential camp. An ISTP with a strong dose of intuition perhaps.

So back to the INTP, you have an existential existence, which means an individual who cannot help but question and analyze the nature and meaning of existence from high to low. When high (thinking of our place in the Universe) it easily leads to nihilism. But when low, INTP's will also happily analyze the best design for a toilet. When directed at the self and the career, INTP's have a strong tendency to keep questioning their life, treating it as a system. So they can easily get caught in a Möbius loop. This is a trap (cue Admiral Akbar), as just when ready to take action, the questioning will stop it.

But this isn't a given. Consider, it's not a-priori that INTP's are indecisive. There are many systems you/we don't question. Either because they're already analyzed, uninteresting or too simple. Or even just accepted. So the point is that it's a good skill for an INTP to learn how to direct their motivations in such a way as to channel them in the directions they choose, rather than by happenstance. There are examples of this, the best being that Einstein didn't appear to question himself very much.

Each type has a unique set of strengths, and likewise a unique set of traps, in a Greek Hero fashion (c.f. Achilles). The mandate for an individual is to understand themselves and learn to be their own best manager.

Takes notes here: Sage Advice

 

[INTPINTP]

I think getting caught up in the "should's" and "ought to be's" keeps INTPs from living in the present moment.

I think not having expectations helps take the pressure off. Sure the world should be different, but its not, and we just gotta do the best we can with the way it currently is.

 

[SloBoy]

I've been in the rut for a long while - maybe 10 yrs or slightly more. I kinda slid in as I realised my marriage wasn't going to get any better and action had to be taken - a long, painful and stressful journey followed (not quite typical INTP I don't think - not sure)

Strangely, all the "J" attributes i"d been able to exercise in 20yrs or so of a successful career also slipped away and I reverted very strongly to type - struggling to communicate, really HATING to be wrong.

For a lot of jobs, J behaviours are pretty much vital, but it is possible to think of it all as a system - one of the best business leaders I worked for advocated a decision making system where you:

- analyse down to two reasonable possibilities
- pick one without further analysis
- be ready to switch quickly if it doesn't work out

There are a couple interesting things here - the systems reduces the cost of getting it wrong, and even if you make the wrong decision, you've operated the system properly and it doesn't feel so bad.

Secondly, an aspect of worrying about getting it wrong is to do with what other people will think (or possibly that other people will be emotionally hurt) by the mistake. Here's the news - generally they don't care so much. Most people would rather try and fail than not try, so again, we may be wrongly valuing the mistake.

N.B. If you're a surgeon or similar - ignore the above. ZERO ERRORS PLEASE !

FInally - I'm on the way back out I think - job wise, I'm now working for an ISTJ I've know a long while. I think/hope between us we can get my disposition to action back up to an acceptable level. On the relationship front, I'm just gonna let that lie for a while after a failure with an INFP recently. I've concluded that a certain level of F behaviour is essential for success (by which I mean a warm, loving relationship) if you're with someone who can give you that feeling of being loved, you HAVE to be able to sustain them in return.

 

[Pyropyro]

Said shortly, have you gone through this? What was/is your solution, if you have one? Suggestions?

Yep, almost daily. There's also some long-term ruts as well.

Daily "mini-ruts":
Make a list of task and pretend that they are RPG quests. The gamer in me then wants to finish them ASAP

Long term "ruts":
I make my goals vague and flexible to make them less scary to work on. In this case let's say "pass this academic course". I then set mini-goals revolving around it say "do an hour of study each day"

 

[Sixup]

Since this thread started I realized I have had the "INTP-Rut" about once a week. Shit. Just mildly, but still. Pretty happy to be starting school and not working, so will see if the rut frequency changes...