Any other oddball INTPs?

[Olivia]

So I classify myself as an INTP, or more specifically, a PNITfesj.

It seems to be commonly known (at least among the personality types community) that INTPs like complex systems, such as math, sciences, languages, computer code, etc. For me, this is partially true. I'm good at math and science, always have been (I get As and Bs), however, I never really liked it. Languages are a different matter. I love learning foreign languages, and learning about other cultures. I feel like it gives me the ability to communicate more precisely. However, one thing that seemed un-INTP-ish of me is that I like music. Playing, listening, whatever. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. INTPs like complex systems; music is a complex system. Right? Can anyone else relate?

Another thing is, INTPs often seem to outsiders as "cold". I'm a bit of an "extroverted introvert"; I love people, and I can sometimes get really crazy with close friends, but I tend to live more inside my mind, and I need time and space to myself. I'm not very good at comforting people face to face, or even talking about feelings or personal problems, but I've always seemed to make friends easily, if a little awkwardly. I've been to some dark places (I was borderline anorexic, now recovering, also I occasionally get depressed), and I try my best to help people in those situations. This might sound like a feeler trait. I do care deeply about my friends, and I admit to being somewhat protective of them. Again, might sound like a feeler trait. However, although I have deep and powerful feelings on the inside, these feelings rarely manifest themselves on the outside. When I try to help someone in a bad emotional situation, I'm actually pretty good at it if I do it over text. That way I don't have to manipulate my facial expressions and body language, I have time to plan what I'm going to say, and I don't have to deal with feeling awkward and mumbling. If this makes any sense, I suppose I'm trying to say that because of my thinker traits, I can help feelers. Is this complete nonsense?

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

Greetings.

I'm right there with you about language and music being much more enjoyable than math.

I don't find typology or mbti to be that accurate to tell you about your preferences or behaviour.

This problem has been tackled many times here and there are users far more knowledgeable and capable of providing the answers you need. You may choose to use the search function.

At some point you might find mbti to be a hollow indicator of what you already know, or maybe you will identify yourself with ENTP or another type.

No, you make sense so far, many people become confused with similar stuff, frankly it's confusing and inconsistent.

Enjoy your stay and may you find what you need here...blessings

 

[Architect]

You're an INTP who runs a lot of Ne.

With INTP's - and any type frankly but quite often with the introverts whose first extraverted function is in the auxiliary - you find many who 'live' more in their extraverted auxiliary. Larry David (highly likely INTP) is like this. He's not a technical or complex systems thinker, but he's surely an INTP. I was one too (a music/humanities geek), until I (literally) decided my thinking was too weak and switched to science. At the time I knew little about MBTI (didn't know I was an INTP) and nothing about the functions, so it's instructive to recall that I saw my "thinking" (Ti dominant) as too weak. I felt lopsided. Interestingly whatever you are as a teenager seems to be who you will be for life. I spent my adult life as a scientists/engineer, but never lost the humanities half. I have to straddle the two.

David Keirsey (the younger) is an example of a pure Ti-Ne science geek. You can find videos of him on YouTube to see what thats like.

So anyhow, no you're not unusual, and given the state of science education at the early grades (heavy S factual) it's not surprising that a large percentage of INTP's take the (admittedly lopsided) Ne rather than Ti route. What you describe above fits the bill perfectly.

 

[r4ch3l]

Like what Architect said. I'm also a super-P INTP with very imbalanced Ne running the show. Zero chance I'm an extrovert. Ask anyone who has ever met me.

In the last year I've spent a lot of time with another INTP. When we are around one another I seem more like an ENFP and he an INTJ. He's a way more Ti-Si heavy INTP than I am. There are variations within type.

I understand what you are saying about helping people through your thinking and performing a better job as an empathetic friend through writing. I'm just awful at conveying warmth and empathy in person, everything I do feels contrived and awkward. But when I am helping someone going through a tough time in text format I feel I do a good job of giving them perspective and being authentic.

 

[Jennywocky]

So I classify myself as an INTP, or more specifically, a PNITfesj.

If you ever saw the old "24 types of INTP" thread (it's not really a validated approach but kind of interesting on its own), I would be an NPIT or maybe an NPTI:
http://www.intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=12181

NPIT -- "niche maker" – This subtype tends to create systems starting from a specific example, creating the framework to fit the criteria of the intuition-object. They want to find a place for everything, and a frame big enough for everyone.
NPTI -- "mediator" – With a kind, agreeable nature, this subtype wants to classify and sort much like the NPIT, but tries to do this from within whichever system is dominant.

It's not that my T isn't present at all, it's just that I find myself nowadays living more in an "NP" style life versus "IT" like I did when I was younger. I've had a few people even accuse me of being an ENTP, but... I'm definitely not an extrovert if you know me IRL.

It seems to be commonly known (at least among the personality types community) that INTPs like complex systems, such as math, sciences, languages, computer code, etc. For me, this is partially true. I'm good at math and science, always have been (I get As and Bs), however, I never really liked it.

I've worked in IT my whole life -- code, tech writing, analysis work. It's something I liked as soon as I ran across it, in terms of how my brain took to it. I was programming on the college mainframe before graduation and fiddling with stuff in my spare time before I even graduated, and I was an English major.

The thing is, while it satisfies my brain in a lot of ways, it doesn't satisfy my heart. It's TOO detached. So it leaves part of me unfulfilled.

Languages are a different matter. I love learning foreign languages, and learning about other cultures. I feel like it gives me the ability to communicate more precisely. However, one thing that seemed un-INTP-ish of me is that I like music. Playing, listening, whatever. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. INTPs like complex systems; music is a complex system. Right? Can anyone else relate?

Music and math are related. And yes, they're both systems. The thing with music is that it demands more sensory skills and also the ability to perceive emotion and global trends in sound as it unfolds. The most effective musicians can sense how something might impact a listener, and weaves the sound according to the goal.

I started doing music when I was 5, and spent a large portion of my life in musical performance, though never as a career. I was good at it. I felt like an enchanter weaving my spells to entrance the listener. But I consider myself an amateur ultimately because I never really practiced technique as I should have, to be able to accomplish the very best stuff. In any case, music lets me use thinking and intuition, as well as taps into my emotional side.

Another thing is, INTPs often seem to outsiders as "cold". I'm a bit of an "extroverted introvert"; I love people, and I can sometimes get really crazy with close friends, but I tend to live more inside my mind, and I need time and space to myself. I'm not very good at comforting people face to face, or even talking about feelings or personal problems, but I've always seemed to make friends easily, if a little awkwardly. I've been to some dark places (I was borderline anorexic, now recovering, also I occasionally get depressed), and I try my best to help people in those situations. This might sound like a feeler trait. I do care deeply about my friends, and I admit to being somewhat protective of them. Again, might sound like a feeler trait. However, although I have deep and powerful feelings on the inside, these feelings rarely manifest themselves on the outside. When I try to help someone in a bad emotional situation, I'm actually pretty good at it if I do it over text. That way I don't have to manipulate my facial expressions and body language, I have time to plan what I'm going to say, and I don't have to deal with feeling awkward and mumbling. If this makes any sense, I suppose I'm trying to say that because of my thinker traits, I can help feelers. Is this complete nonsense?

I can identify with that a lot. I do care about people too, and can perceive emotional undercurrents and social expectations that impact people's feelings and relationships. However, it's more apparent when I'm around true feeler types who can act out of those centers -- I'm always a detached thinker sort who is trying to emulate those things, it's not coming out of me directly. I feel awkward and cold, but I just can't do what they do, it's uncomfortable and awkward. Still I can be very friendly, and I'm open to people who are open. I am a good listener, I'm very sensitive when people come to me with things, and they appreciate my perspective when I offer it. Still, my interactions are more like I'm analyzing and helping them understand their problems, so that then they can make informed choices about what they want to commit to in their lives. I have a lot of trouble giving just "raw feels" to someone, it's always shared in relaxed "thinker speak." I feel bad about that sometimes, but like the terminator says, "I know now why you cry but it's something I can never do." I've reached a point in life where I've accepted my limitations in that area and I also know my strengths and what I can offer.

 

[Jungle]

However, one thing that seemed un-INTP-ish of me is that I like music. Playing, listening, whatever. When you think about it, it makes a lot of sense. INTPs like complex systems; music is a complex system. Right? Can anyone else relate?

Yep, music has always been a big part of my life. I think it is important for a lot of INTPs.

Check this out:

Another area of interest common to INTPs, where Si has a strong influence, is Music. INTPs are usually fascinated by music and may have deep and wide-ranging tastes. Indeed, each of their three main functions (Ti, Ne, Si) plays a role in the enjoyment of music, and indeed music is a key interest for bringing out the feeling shadow of the INTP. Si itself brings a fascination for mood and atmosphere in music as well as for a strong sense of personal nostalgia. INTPs are therefore often keen on melancolic minor-key music in which an introspective and/or esoteric mood is conveyed. Equally, INTPs enjoy hearing music that they heard and enjoyed when younger (provided they can still appreciate it now) and yearn for the sense of nostalgia that it yields. INTPs are also drawn to complexly structured music, thanks to their Ti core. An appreciation of modern classical music, as well as perhaps contemporary jazz, is therefore common with them. Such music types are usually too complex to be understood after a single hearing, which hence provides excellent material for analysis, exciting the INTP no end. Once the basic developmental structure of the music has been assessed, Ne provides the impetus to derive a general meaning of the piece. What does the composer wish to convey, for example? Why was that particular development chosen? Indeed, the Ne is usually hard at work during listening sessions, trying to grasp the meanings behind the often fascinating combinations of sound-world evocations, structural developments and nostalgic impressions.

Source: http://www.intp.org/intprofile.html

I definitely relate to the stuff about nostalgia. I love rediscovering an album or a song which I am already familiar with but haven't listened to for a while.

 

[Olivia]

Ok, thanks! The answers have been very informative. Another thing is this: do any other INTPs here have impulses to have (often slightly dangerous) fun? I thrive on adrenaline, and I'm always looking for something to do that scares me a little (or a lot).

 

[Jennywocky]

Not when I was young, but nowadays yes.

I still manage risk (I don't do totally crazy stuff) but I do enjoy trying things beyond my normal comfort zone.

 

[redbaron]

Are there any INTPs that aren't oddballs?

 

[Olivia]

Are there any INTPs that aren't oddballs?

Good point fair enough

 

[Architect]

Yep, music has always been a big part of my life. I think it is important for a lot of INTPs.

Yes, that keeps coming up. I was a serious/professional classical musician, n colleague of mine has an for sure INTP son, who also has fallen for music in a big way. My INTP son is big into listening to music. He's learning how to program now, making a game in Unity. Oddly, he just told me how much listening to music helps him when he programs. What makes it odd is that it's the same thing for me, but not most programmers who want silence. Music is the most structural of the arts so this makes some sense. At any rate Ti-Ne seems to be more artistically oriented, and Ni-Te (INTJ) is more clearly into science.

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

hey im PITN...very high on perception
my head is a mess
im very artistically inclined...but i also enjoy maths and science, not the problem solving part though. i only have fun learning about the history and philosophy of scientific/mathematical concepts, i do well academically too but i dont enjoy how maths and science are taught in a fragmented or disintegrated way, and i honestly cant say i actually understand most of what i studied in school or uni, because, to me, understanding comes only when i can connect whatever concept im studying to other concepts. i think if ure into arts and language you will definitely enjoy reading about history, philosophy and origins of maths and science, the same is true for all people with high P, i guess. its only a problem of approach.

about feelings, i know what you mean. im also the same. i get easily attached to people i can feel a connection with. i also care deeply about lots of people in my life. the only issue is i have trouble communicating feelings and thats why i come off as cold.
i hate how personality tests tend to disregard the complexity of feelings and behaviors...eg. you get questions that allude to you being uncaring and then you're confused as to whether to reply from a behaviorist standpoint or reply according to how you are on the inside

i think you should try taking enneagram tests too, most INTPs are 5w6s afaik...enneagrams are a more -nurture- approach to personality typing and can be really helpful tool to gain better understanding of yourself (im 5w4 and im guessing you are too)

 

[scenefinale]

With INTP's - and any type frankly but quite often with the introverts whose first extraverted function is in the auxiliary - you find many who 'live' more in their extraverted auxiliary. Larry David (highly likely INTP) is like this. He's not a technical or complex systems thinker, but he's surely an INTP.

I've seen all of Seinfeld and all of CYE. Larry David is ISTP. So I'm not sure how you're reading him as high-Ne.

 

[Olivia]

i think you should try taking enneagram tests too, most INTPs are 5w6s afaik...enneagrams are a more -nurture- approach to personality typing and can be really helpful tool to gain better understanding of yourself (im 5w4 and im guessing you are too)

I'd like to try taking an enneagram test; do you have a link for the one you took? Or was it not online?

 

[Teffnology]

Ok, thanks! The answers have been very informative. Another thing is this: do any other INTPs here have impulses to have (often slightly dangerous) fun? I thrive on adrenaline, and I'm always looking for something to do that scares me a little (or a lot).

I have been told I am a very unique INTP by a quite a few forum members. Ne dominant persona when in public, as a form of subconscious social engineering, and a huge sports nerd, who does't fit in with the jocks or the typical nerds.

But to RedBaron's point I agree that we are all unique BECAUSE we are INTPs. We all had different external influences growing up and developing so as INTPs we took a divergent path and ended up in a totally different place than our peers and other INTPs as well because they may have started on a different path to begin with (i.e. Architect grew up with music, I grew up with sports and I would equate my experience with sports to his with music), so while all INTP paths may look a lot different, the process behind the making of those divergent paths is where we can find similarities.

I can identify with your thriving on adrenaline. I am not a big social guy at all and am relatively reserved 90% of the time but when that 10% gets activated, look out. I am a reckless SOB that lives on the edge. Gambling, partying, drinking, drugging, driving fast, doing something semi-illegal, and quite a few other self destructive behaviors. Adrenaline and oxytocin, the chemical hormone released at orgasm, are the best things about being alive.

I am also diagnosed Bipolar II and there are various factors from here at play as well. But I have read on numerous occasions that INTPs can be prone to Bipolar-ism and Schizophrenia, in general. So I fit the bill there. Not sure if there is causality there but I think that a possibility is that I have lived most of my life molding to the shape of how others perceived me, a social chameleon trait common amongst INTPs. This effect has been in play for the entirety of my adolescence and something snapped last year where I just knew something was wrong. That was when it sank in that I was actually an INTP deep down and not the projection of what I thought I was trying to portray. I have been doing a lot of refactoring as AJ Drenth from PersonalityJunkie would put it.

 

[Teffnology]

I'd like to try taking an enneagram test; do you have a link for the one you took? Or was it not online?

http://similarminds.com/advtest.html


this one was pretty good from this thread

http://intpforum.com/showthread.php?t=21538&highlight=enneagram

 

[Analyzer]

I have been told I am a very unique INTP by a quite a few forum members. Ne dominant persona when in public, as a form of subconscious social engineering, and a huge sports nerd, who does't fit in with the jocks or the typical nerds.

But to RedBaron's point I agree that we are all unique BECAUSE we are INTPs. We all had different external influences growing up and developing so as INTPs we took a divergent path and ended up in a totally different place than our peers and other INTPs as well because they may have started on a different path to begin with (i.e. Architect grew up with music, I grew up with sports and I would equate my experience with sports to his with music), so while all INTP paths may look a lot different, the process behind the making of those divergent paths is where we can find similarities.

I can identify with your thriving on adrenaline. I am not a big social guy at all and am relatively reserved 90% of the time but when that 10% gets activated, look out. I am a reckless SOB that lives on the edge. Gambling, partying, drinking, drugging, driving fast, doing something semi-illegal, and quite a few other self destructive behaviors. Adrenaline and oxytocin, the chemical hormone released at orgasm, are the best things about being alive.

I am also diagnosed Bipolar II and there are various factors from here at play as well. But I have read on numerous occasions that INTPs can be prone to Bipolar-ism and Schizophrenia, in general. So I fit the bill there. Not sure if there is causality there but I think that a possibility is that I have lived most of my life molding to the shape of how others perceived me, a social chameleon trait common amongst INTPs. This effect has been in play for the entirety of my adolescence and something snapped last year where I just knew something was wrong. That was when it sank in that I was actually an INTP deep down and not the projection of what I thought I was trying to portray. I have been doing a lot of refactoring as AJ Drenth from PersonalityJunkie would put it.

Yeah I relate to these things as well. I wonder if it has to do with our instincual variant stackings. I am SX dom - SX/SO/SP

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/133-Instinctual-Stackings

 

[Olivia]

I am also diagnosed Bipolar II and there are various factors from here at play as well. But I have read on numerous occasions that INTPs can be prone to Bipolar-ism and Schizophrenia, in general. So I fit the bill there. Not sure if there is causality there but I think that a possibility is that I have lived most of my life molding to the shape of how others perceived me, a social chameleon trait common amongst INTPs. This effect has been in play for the entirety of my adolescence and something snapped last year where I just knew something was wrong. That was when it sank in that I was actually an INTP deep down and not the projection of what I thought I was trying to portray. I have been doing a lot of refactoring as AJ Drenth from PersonalityJunkie would put it.

Shoot. Bipolar, depression, and alcoholism runs in the family already so I better watch out xD:face palm: Anyway, good to know.

 

[Teffnology]

Yeah I relate to these things as well. I wonder if it has to do with our instincual variant stackings. I am SX dom - SX/SO/SP

http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/133-Instinctual-Stackings

I haven't gotten into Socionics yet but it is definitely intriguing. On the enneagram link I posted it gave me: SP/SO/SX.

I will examine that link and site and get back to you when I do further analysis.

 

[Olivia]

The result I got was type 4, sp/sx/so. I get the different types, but I don't really understand the variant stackings.

 

[Jennywocky]

The result I got was type 4, sp/sx/so. I get the different types, but I don't really understand the variant stackings.

http://eclecticenergies.com/enneagram/variants.php

http://pstypes.blogspot.com/2009/04/enneagram-compatibility-instinctual.html

http://www.enneagraminstitute.com/articles/NArtInstVar.asp

Analyzer had a link too -- his link is pretty comprehensive in terms of quantity and type of information provided.

To me, they seem to focus on levels of energy exchange with other people.

(SX prefer a few connections of high intensity; SO prefer broader but less personal professional connections; SP prefer to miminize energy drain and be self-contained.)

You can also have a mix of two, with a lead and a secondary -- and the energy preference is either more mixed together or you see some flipflopping back in forth. (Example: as an SX/sp, I see myself looking for an instant deep connection with someone, then pretty quickly feeling drained and/or feeling like I overextended and instantly drawing back inside / pulling away. Which can be confusing to those on the outside.)

I think some are suggesting that the SX types, looking for one of those charges/thrills of intensity, might be into situations that provide that spark. I know that's what I typically look for, but it's confined to relationships, media experiences, etc.... I don't like actually taking a lot of physical risks, but as I get more comfortable and knowledgeabel of my actual limits, I find myself open as far as I think it's reasonably not going to cause long-term harm.

 

[Teffnology]

Shoot. Bipolar, depression, and alcoholism runs in the family already so I better watch out xD:face palm: Anyway, good to know.

As it did with me. I have a great youtube clip http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjjzFmR5lai0&ei=3b30VPuJHs78oQTTrYKgBw&usg=AFQjCNHFOMhThw1Ewm25olWCIELgl5YPbA&sig2=26GNrP7HFn_3KEPiL2AZkQ&bvm=bv.87269000,d.cGU that works for a lot of things but I mostly refer to it as a clinical study of nature vs nurture. I think that while we may have a genetic link for those disorders it can only be activated by our environment. Much like having a "carrier" gene for a different genetic condition.

With individual genome testing becoming more popular I am very interested in what they identify as these common genes for these disorders and how that is coupled with typology and various personality and psyche variance among those with these disorders.

In this specific scenario, it is likely that we are both carriers for these disorders but your environment hasn't pushed it over the edge yet. Whereas mine has by way of death of a parent and a divorce. Is there a link between this and INTP-ism? Possibly but that is only a single variable and not directly causal but I think that a pattern would develop if enough INTPs were put in the same set of extreme circumstances, similar types of behavior would emerge regardless of genetic predisposition to various disorders.

 

[Olivia]

(SX prefer a few connections of high intensity; SO prefer broader but less personal professional connections; SP prefer to miminize energy drain and be self-contained.)

In that case, it's weird that I got sp as my highest one, because I'd almost rather interact with others BECAUSE it distracts me from thinking about myself. Like, I'd rather take care of someone else's problem and ignore mine. Actually when I was somewhat depressed, it got to a point where I didn't really care about myself very much. Like, feelings were feelings, but they didn't matter. I almost stopped caring about whether or not I got hurt (emotionally or physically).

 

[Teffnology]

I've seen all of Seinfeld and all of CYE. Larry David is ISTP. So I'm not sure how you're reading him as high-Ne.

You guys have been bickering about this for a solid 2 years now. I think it should just be your respective signatures at this point. I can count 5 times, of the top of my head the number of times I have stumbled across this same debate.

Architect whole-heartedly believes Larry David is an INTP, and seems to have most typing sites in his corner.

SceneFinale is firm in his ISTP stance, relying mostly on the product of his writing and characters who he says he identifies with, i.e. George Costanza.

So I guess for efficiency reasons and to prevent scenefinale from chiming in every time Architect uses Larry David as INTP reference (which is basically every post in which he refers to a non-Einstein INTP celebrity) it should have an asterisk by it, referring to this discrepancy forevermore. Architect, how do you feel about this strategy? I am sure that would appease scenefinale in his attempts to constantly counter your Larry David typing. He is an INTP* from now on and scenefinale disagrees for his various reasons that have been documented previously, period.

 

[Olivia]

As it did with me. I have a great youtube clip http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=video&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCMQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DjjzFmR5lai0&ei=3b30VPuJHs78oQTTrYKgBw&usg=AFQjCNHFOMhThw1Ewm25olWCIELgl5YPbA&sig2=26GNrP7HFn_3KEPiL2AZkQ&bvm=bv.87269000,d.cGU that works for a lot of things but I mostly refer to it as a clinical study of nature vs nurture. I think that while we may have a genetic link for those disorders it can only be activated by our environment. Much like having a "carrier" gene for a different genetic condition.

With individual genome testing becoming more popular I am very interested in what they identify as these common genes for these disorders and how that is coupled with typology and various personality and psyche variance among those with these disorders.

In this specific scenario, it is likely that we are both carriers for these disorders but your environment hasn't pushed it over the edge yet. Where has mine as by way of death of a parent and a divorce. Is there a link between this and INTP-ism? Possibly but that is only a single variable and not directly causal but I think that a pattern would develop if enough INTPs were put in the same set of extreme circumstances, similar types of behavior would emerge regardless of genetic predisposition to various disorders.

I'm also very interested in nature vs. nurture. I haven't exactly been "pushed over the edge", but it's similar to a stress fracture, I just get worn down over time. I developed borderline anorexia and a short period of depression as well.

I'm assuming there is no "INTP gene", but I could see it as possible, even likely, that someone is born with a predisposition to a certain personality type. However, I think it has to do more with nurture. For example: I'm the oldest child in an alcoholic homeschooling family (neither of my parents are currently drinking, but the alcoholic family dynamic remains). As soon as I was capable of taking care of myself (around age 8 or 9), I did. I've been allowed a lot of freedom, and I've basically been self-educated from grades 4 to 10. That (I think) gave me a strong independency trait. I'm very introverted, perhaps because it's more pleasant to be inside my mind than in the outside world.

When I was younger I think I was more of an INTJ. I planned out every minute of my day. Not anymore. I can make a schedule, but it's incredibly difficult and straight-up boring to follow it.

 

[Olivia]

You guys have been bickering about this for a solid 2 years now. I think it should just be your respective signatures at this point. I can count 5 times, of the top of my head the number of times I have stumbled across this same debate.

Architect whole-heartedly believes Larry David is an INTP, and seems to have most typing sites in his corner.

SceneFinale is firm in his ISTP stance, relying mostly on the product of his writing and characters who he says he identifies with, i.e. George Costanza.

So I guess for efficiency reasons and to prevent scenefinale from chiming in every time Architect uses Larry David as INTP reference (which is basically every post in which he refers to a non-Einstein INTP celebrity) it should have an asterisk by it, referring to this discrepancy forevermore. Architect, how do you feel about this strategy? I am sure that would appease scenefinale in his attempts to constantly counter your Larry David typing. He is an INTP* from now on and scenefinale disagrees for his various reasons that have been documented previously, period.

Eh...possible posted in the wrong thread...?

 

[Ex-User (11125)]

the comparison of flow in pairs from analyzer's link was a little depressing to read...(im sp/sx)

The result I got was type 4

look at your 5 and 3 percentages...out of the two, which one was higher? that would be your wing

when you figure out what your wing is, this might help(source: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/161-Enneagram-Type-Descriptions):

Spoiler

Type Four

Type four people care more than most about the emotional significance of events. They can become trapped by a sense of the meaninglessness of their own life, and of the world. One of their talents is an intuitive connection to the source of beauty.

Ego fixation: melancholy
Holy idea: originality
Passion: envy
Virtue: equanimity

Health Levels

inspired originality
self-aware intuition
subtle humanity

symbolic drama
withdrawn melancholy
self-indulgent disdain

desolate confusion
guilt-ridden torment
suicidal despair


four with a five wing

general description

Average 4/5 is emotionally heavy. Powerful, passionate feelings and aesthetic appreciations swell within and then get bottled up inside. 4/5s generally avoid expressing their feelings because they feel that no one could possibly understand them. Like 4/3, they feel special and different, but 4/5 is more likely to withdraw into sullen silence than to make a big public scene. 4/5 and 5/4 both have strong feelings which they repress, but because their feelings are stronger than their repression, 4/5s are more aware than 5/4 of their inner emotional state. Consequently, they are more likely to become depressed. There is a kind of delicacy to 4/5 that is not usually present in 4/3.

balanced and transcendent states

Balanced 4/5 lightens up. The five-wing's integration to eight adds a kind of solidity and strength to the healthy 4/5, while the integration of four to one provides clear judgment and rationality. Healthy 4/5s begin to escape from the obsessive, dark, inner view, looking more outward into the world. There they find new connections with other people, possibly to their great surprise. They finally begin to discover that they have been loving people all along, although they may not have known it.

With spiritual growth, the realization that love has been present all along strengthens into an unquenchable thirst for deeper inner connections with an inner source of meaning. These connections are strengthened by loving compassion for other humans. Extremely advanced 4/5 is a gentle, strong, deeply passionate teacher. Keen observations of the subtle states of others provide a miraculous ability to elicit powerful, transforming feelings. They may teach in person, through their writings, or in more subtle ways such as various forms of artistic expression.

unbalanced and unhealthy states

Unbalanced 4/5 can move into the extreme withdrawal of depression, then, with still further disintegration, into a sort of dark impulsiveness. Deeply troubled by feelings of utter worthlessness and extreme isolation, unhealthy 4/5 may look for opportunities to perform degrading, menial tasks, rationalizing that such a fate is deserved. Servility and self-abasement provide a kind of barely-adequate, very temporary relief from the constant torment of self-hatred.

As life becomes less and less tolerable, suicide becomes increasingly likely, and if it happens it may be done in some unusually gruesome way. Extremely dark, horrifying inner imaginings are welcomed and encouraged. The whole world, both inner and outer, is seen as grotesquely diseased and utterly without redeeming qualities. 4/5 Hell is a place of unimaginable ugliness, populated by those deformed, psychotic monsters, the human race. Psychotic 4/5 revels in hopelessness and despair.

physical appearance

Some 4/5s place little attention on appearance, beyond a kind of casual style. Black clothing is common, loosely worn and maybe not very well-fitted. By contrast, there are other 4/5s who are careful to dress well whenever possible. Well-dressed 4/5s seem to have a way of looking elegant but understated. Whether or not they dress and groom themselves carefully, average to unbalanced 4/5s often feel they are unattractive in some way.

callings

Some 4/5s find work that lets them express their deep feelings while withdrawing from direct contact. Writers, painters, sculptors, philosophers, fabric designers. Others like to make deep contact with a few, carefully selected people. Psychologists, butlers, personal aides. They might overcome the desire to withdraw, coming out as popular musicians or character actors. Often they settle for relatively unglamorous work, living a rich fantasy life instead. There are 4/5 accountants, technical writers, and night clerks. Of course, 4/5s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.


four with a three wing

general description

Average 4/3 is emotionally spicy. Because of the conflict between the three-wing's desire to be in the spotlight and the four's self-conscious fear of exposure, they may alternate between extremes of extroversion and introversion. Unlike the cooler 3/4s, 4/3s may find it difficult (if not impossible) to stay calm when emotions come up. They are more likely to talk about their overwhelming feelings than the much more rational, analytical, withdrawn 4/5s.

balanced and transcendent states

Balanced 4/3 finds the peace of equanimity. When four integrates to one and three integrates to six, deep compassionate wisdom is augmented by a feeling of brotherhood and belonging. Finally, the 4/3 reaches a point where comfort is possible without being tormented by a desire that others recognize that special uniqueness. Others who are feeling emotional difficulty can find sensitive, unselfish understanding in a balanced 4/3.

When 4/3 becomes deeply self-aware, there is a feeling of tremendous emotional integrity. Others feel that they are genuinely being heard, but not judged in any way. Somehow the advanced 4/3 manages to be both an equal and a teacher, both a sympathetic listener and a disciplined advisor. Real transformations happen in the lives of those who tell their stories to such people. People become powerfully motivated to find the real meaning in their lives.

unbalanced and unhealthy states

Unbalanced 4/3 swings through wild emotional cycles. As fourish emotionality gets more out of control, bringing in the selfish expectations of special treatment of the unhealthy two, the three-wing's nineish tendencies cause a kind of split within the psyche. The more intensely the dramatized pseudo-emotions are felt, the less in touch the 4/3 becomes with the real, honest feelings that lie underneath. The dramatic emotions become more and more staged and false.

In the unhealthy extreme, there is little actual contact with real feelings, despite the possibly awe-inspiring intensity of the outward expression. All the theatrical emotionality is a fearful cover for an inner emptiness that will not go away. Extremely unbalanced 4/3 has become so attached to the outward expression of the false emotions that the real feelings are overwhelmed and drowned out. The conviction of being hopelessly flawed may lead to desperate attempts to end it all with suicide, almost always in some dramatic, attention-grabbing way. I'm a hopeless romantic, unable to live a normal life. I might as well end it all right now, because no one will ever understand my torment. At least then, others might see the depth of my pain.

physical appearance

4/3 is the type most interested in a really artful, tastefully unique presentation. They often like to combine black and bright colors. 4/3s are usually thin to medium in build, although there are some exceptions. The females often wear their hair in some way that gives it a lot of body, such as shoulder-length (or longer) curls. Both sexes like to dress up. Some of the most outrageous costumes ever seen in ordinary public places are on 4/3s (the rest are on sevens).

callings

Some 4/3s find work that brings out their interest in aesthetics and artistic expression. Novelists, musicians, painters, poets, actors, dancers. Graphic designers, fashion consultants, interior designers, restaurant managers. Others express themselves more privately, outside of work, becoming secretaries, middle-managers, retail salespeople. There are 4/3 career advisors, guidance counsellors and psychologists. Of course, 4/3s can also be found doing many other kinds of work.

 

[Teffnology]

In that case, it's weird that I got sp as my highest one, because I'd almost rather interact with others BECAUSE it distracts me from thinking about myself. Like, I'd rather take care of someone else's problem and ignore mine. Actually when I was somewhat depressed, it got to a point where I didn't really care about myself very much. Like, feelings were feelings, but they didn't matter. I almost stopped caring about whether or not I got hurt (emotionally or physically).

That might have something to do with the test because I have the same issues with the results it gave me. I would say I am SX dominant and not SP but the test says different.

I had the same experience, I would deflect my inner emotions and depression into helping others solve their problems and the like. I would rather work on fixing something for someone else or doing something for someone else as a way of not dealing with my own emotions or state of well-being.

AJ Drenth talks about this and how INTPs need to be needed, so that factor could be at play when depression strikes. Helping others serves as a distraction for us so we don't have to deal with our own complicated messy emotions that take actual effort to deal with. Other people's problems seem like a more mechanical system that I can manipulate and actually affect change. When it comes to confronting problems in my own life I adopt a policy of total avoidance to the point of it negatively affecting my life and circumstances by the process of avoiding it. If it isn't broke, steaming, and about to spontaneously combust don't fix it, is the unhealthy approach I take to my personal problems. For others I am Mr. Proactive and overanalyze possible situations and strategies for them, whether the ask for help or not.

 

[Olivia]

I scored exactly the same on 3 and 5, but 4/5 sounds a lot more like me. I do tend to not talk about whatever I'm feeling. Not because I feel that nobody would understand, but partially because I don't trust most people to keep a secret, and partially because the only people I'd be willing to tell are people that I don't want to dump all my problems on. I've never been suicidal, but I have been mildly depressed and borderline anorexic.

 

[Olivia]

That might have something to do with the test because I have the same issues with the results it gave me. I would say I am SX dominant and not SP but the test says different.

I had the same experience, I would deflect my inner emotions and depression into helping others solve their problems and the like. I would rather work on fixing something for someone else or doing something for someone else as a way of not dealing with my own emotions or state of well-being.

AJ Drenth talks about this and how INTPs need to be needed, so that factor could be at play when depression strikes. Helping others serves as a distraction for us so we don't have to deal with our own complicated messy emotions that take actual effort to deal with. Other people's problems seem like a more mechanical system that I can manipulate and actually affect change. When it comes to confronting problems in my own life I adopt a policy of total avoidance to the point of it negatively affecting my life and circumstances by the process of avoiding it. If it isn't broke, steaming, and about to spontaneously combust don't fix it, is the unhealthy approach I take to my personal problems. For others I am Mr. Proactive and overanalyze possible situations and strategies for them, whether the ask for help or not.

Yessss that describes me almost perfectly. I'm getting slightly better at this, but I used to say to myself countless times a day "just suck it up and deal with it, that's what you've always done, isn't it?" I have a friend who's sort of like a little brother to me, and he sort of has that "I suck at everything, but I guess I can deal with it" attitude. And he doesn't really like talking about his problems. It freaks me out. I'm like nononono don't do that to yourself please. It would almost be funny except it's not. Like, I'm protective of him, and looking out for him is almost therapeutic for me.

 

[Teffnology]

Well I was in super rough shape when I first joined this forum and it has really helped me realize that i am not alone in my thinking and others have been to the dark places of the mind I have frequented. I also have recently found quite a few members who share some of my symptoms in regards to dealing with life and its ups and downs and the correlation to my internal ups and downs.

If you have any questions on where to look for various subjects, holla at me, I have been doing a lot of browsing in the archives and am working on a road map for new members to follow so they can hit the highlights of years past in an efficient manner. Being an INTP it is likely to be perpetually in the planning stages but I am chipping away at it.

 

[TBerg]

When I took the test to figure out my subtype, I got a tie:

ITNP – "slow burn" (Ubermensch) – This subtype wants to have the most unbiased perception possible, but in order to achieve this must constantly rethink and slowly obliterate any personal association that might fetter objectivity. The ITNP can get caught in an endless judging-perceiving cycle of re-examination.

ITPN – "reset button" – This subtype has all the identity strife of the ITNP, but tends to externalize it as a concrete activity of some kind. The two ITs tend to be the most objective of all the subtypes, because they constantly force themselves to face their faults.

I myself am not that good at math, my science grades are not the best, and I enjoy political philosophy most of all. I might be just fucked up, though, not INTP.

 

[Teffnology]

Yessss that describes me almost perfectly. I'm getting slightly better at this, but I used to say to myself countless times a day "just suck it up and deal with it, that's what you've always done, isn't it?" I have a friend who's sort of like a little brother to me, and he sort of has that "I suck at everything, but I guess I can deal with it" attitude. And he doesn't really like talking about his problems. It freaks me out. I'm like nononono don't do that to yourself please. It would almost be funny except it's not. Like, I'm protective of him, and looking out for him is almost therapeutic for me.

Totally.

Having someone that needs guidance in your life is a big ego boost and I would actually try to foster those kind of relationships, my inferior Fe knocking at the door. Try to guide someone who may not have as much life experience as me when I am really not in a position to give advice, but I can't help myself I see someone struggling and I have a burning desire to offer my 2cents. Case in point, all of these posts on this thread haha. Maybe it is not such a bad thing but I do wish I could analyze my own life like I do others. There would be a lot less mistakes being made that is for sure.

The suck it up and get it done quote to self is setting of multiple bells and alarms in my head. I woke up everyday for 6 months telling myself that and living in a state of denial, just trying to coax myself into "feeling normal". On Valentine's Day 2013 I woke up and decided I was done trying to convince myself of that lie that I was constantly telling myself. The date was a coincidence, at least I'm pretty sure it is, but it is hard to forget your first Psych hospitalization.

2+ years, my father's death, and a divorce later I am here and still deal with depression but it is in a whole different league, in a good way. Now I actually have the perspective and time to reflect on what was making me so miserable and what actually gives me a reason to live. i still have peaks and valleys but the valleys are not nearly as doom and gloom as they once were and that is purely a product of my self-discovery and understanding more about how I interact with other people.

Forums the 21st century version of group therapy! Thanx for being here y'all!

 

[Olivia]

Yeah, it's sort of the same for me. Depression is, well, depressing, but it's also somewhat of a game. "What caused this problem and how do I fix it?" As weird as this sounds, I actually enjoy it to some degree. But I hate it at the same time. I don't know. I'm weird.

This friend I was talking about (he's 10 by the way, I'm 14), one of the reasons I'm somewhat protective of him is because I don't want him to make the same mistakes I did, and go through that kind of crap. Being a boy, it's unlikely he'd develop an eating disorder (though not impossible), but he has a lot of the same self-destructive tendencies as I do, and like I said, that freaks me out.

Yeah, it's not exactly like i'm trying to coax myself into feeling normal. Maybe it is. But more like I'm trying to just brush it off. Like "I've dealt with worse things, why not this?" It's not a great attitude, and it can be quite self-destructive. For a while, I just stopped caring. Sort of like "yeah I'm depressed and sure I'm about to pass out because I'm not eating, but it doesn't really matter". Like I say i'm getting better at it.

At this point I should mention that my teammates (gymnastics team) have been amazing about it. I told them about it a few weeks ago, after being completely sick of lying to people who did nothing but good to me. They've been amazing support, and they try their best (even if they don't completely understand me). They're a family to me, and even though we don't talk about it a lot, it helps that they know.

On a slightly different note, having people look up to you is some scary ish. Like, having people depend on you. Some people come to me for advice. I'm half like "Ok I must be doing something right", and I'm half like "shoot what if I screw up?"

 

[Teffnology]

At this point I should mention that my teammates (gymnastics team) have been amazing about it. I told them about it a few weeks ago, after being completely sick of lying to people who did nothing but good to me. They've been amazing support, and they try their best (even if they don't completely understand me). They're a family to me, and even though we don't talk about it a lot, it helps that they know.

On a slightly different note, having people look up to you is some scary ish. Like, having people depend on you. Some people come to me for advice. I'm half like "Ok I must be doing something right", and I'm half like "shoot what if I screw up?"

Having people in your corner that are aware of your circumstances and are non-judgmental has been my saving grace. I currently have just my mom IRL and a distant friend I haven't seen in 9 months. As well as this forum and various authors who have had internal struggles themselves. All of that has helped relieve some internal pressures I have felt about it all. It is good to hear that you have that going for you because it is essential to have those kind of people around.

Ya I can relate on that level of being afraid to hand out advice. Like I don't want it on my conscience, the possibility of my advice backfiring and being responsible for another's demise not just my own. The self destruction is easier to accept in a way but if I were to have a direct negative impact on someone else's fortune then I would have a hard time living with myself. I do like the ego boost though so I typically only offer definitive advice on my most knowledgeable subjects: Poker and gambling, Fantasy Sports, and Movies or TV Shows. When it comes to life advice, I generally plead the 5th and instead resort to a Socratic method of asking questions so they can verbalize their own advice based off the questions I ask.

 

[Architect]

IBut to RedBaron's point I agree that we are all unique BECAUSE we are INTPs. We all had different external influences growing up and developing so as INTPs we took a divergent path and ended up in a totally different place than our peers and other INTPs as well because they may have started on a different path to begin with

Why is being an INTP unique in this regards? That is, everybody grows up uniquely - that's the nature of our individuality and personality which develops in the petri dish of childhood. I'll agree to a lesser order other types may not diverge as much as some. For example, SJ's might be more inclined to conform to a stereotype - that's the nature of being an SJ after all. But still if I think of the SJ's I know, once you dig a little bit they're all quite different.

On the flip side what's remarkable to me about INTP's is how similar they are. I have a colleague with an son who is clearly an INTP. We swap stories, and the kid so just like me it's scary. Even down to becoming nuts over music in early teens. Little things too, it's rampant. But on the surface we appear quite different of course, but it doesn't go too deep.

(i.e. Architect grew up with music, I grew up with sports and I would equate my experience with sports to his with music), so while all INTP paths may look a lot different, the process behind the making of those divergent paths is where we can find similarities.

I don't see the correlation. Music was a Fe inferior grip experience (as I learned later), along with a dose of Si nostalgia (I only like old, old old classical music), and Ti/Ne liked having the playground of a complex art form to learn and grow in. At the time I convinced myself I was an INFJ, based on my crude PUM understanding of the types at the time, and even more from my desire to be an emotionally expressive person. Classical inferior siren call and grip experience.

Once I realized my mistake (that I could never consistently be emotionally expressive) I switched to physics, and decided I was an INTJ. Another classical INTP error - mistaking my Ti dominant judging function (which I didn't know about) that I must be a judger. Later I found the difference between being an outer perceiver and inner judger (INTP) versus the reverse (INTJ), plus read a lot of profiles and compared notes with other INTP's to find the truth.

Anyhow sports isn't generally considered an emotionally expressive art form, but perhaps you see some other correlation.

 

[Teffnology]

Yes I do see another correlation but the current version is a 5 page essay, dealing with INTPism and its correlation to my passion for sports, not playing them but tracking them. It is a rough draft right now but something I eventually want to share with the forum. I had a similar grip experience in regards to my relationship to sports, that is hard to break down succinctly.

My point of INTP divergence was heavily influenced by my experience in relating to being an INTP but having little to no knowledge of MBTI and learning the hard way. I personally was surrounded by a constant stream of SJs and ESs both by family and by choice of friends, so my path always looked different than my peers and I had no idea why that was. And now getting into MBTI and understanding the mechanics of it, I am realizing that my upbringing was in direct conflict with my type.

Using Drenth's Maze Metaphor, I accelerated head-on at 65mph into a ton of those maze wall dead ends before I even realized I was in a maze to begin with. I feel that what I was trying to convey was that I had been in denial of my type for my entire adolescence by trying to square peg round hole myself into society. So in that sense my INTP type was being smothered by who I wanted myself to be, aka a decade long grip experience and constant submission to the siren call. If I was a different type I may not have had those same struggles, that was really the only point I was trying to make I guess.

 

[Olivia]

I don't know if this is just me, but I really like sports. Not tracking but playing. I don't like team sports, but I'm obsessed with trampoline gymnastics (which I do competitively), and parkour (ok, maybe parkour isn't a sport, but whatever). One of the reasons I like it so much is because it's simple. It's complicated, but it's simple. Once you know the seemingly complex system, it's almost too simple, which basically means I can just "space out". You should see me go from completely unfocused, joking around with my teammates, laughing at everything, and jumping from the Greek alphabet to Deadpool riding a bike, to being completely composed, almost to the point that I seem unfriendly. It's like my body and the trampoline are the only two existing things. It's a refreshing break sometimes, from having Usain Bolt-esque thoughts running around in your head and not being able to stop them.

Not to mention, sports are fun. Individual sports, anyway.

 

[Olivia]

Also, it's not so much that I'm afraid I'll give faulty advice. It's more like, I'm afraid I won't live up to expectations. You know when you really look up to someone, real or fictional, and they screw up big time? And you feel like you have no example to follow anymore? I don't want to do that to someone.

 

[Architect]

Yes I do see another correlation but the current version is a 5 page essay, dealing with INTPism and its correlation to my passion for sports, not playing them but tracking them. It is a rough draft right now but something I eventually want to share with the forum. I had a similar grip experience in regards to my relationship to sports, that is hard to break down succinctly.

OK, I'll wait for the condensed version.

 

[Teffnology]

Once you know the seemingly complex system, it's almost too simple, which basically means I can just "space out". You should see me go from completely unfocused, joking around with my teammates, laughing at everything, and jumping from the Greek alphabet to Deadpool riding a bike, to being completely composed, almost to the point that I seem unfriendly. It's like my body and the trampoline are the only two existing things. It's a refreshing break sometimes, from having Usain Bolt-esque thoughts running around in your head and not being able to stop them.

Not to mention, sports are fun. Individual sports, anyway.

I happen to love sports and being at my age, 25.54 years old, I have had the luxury of playing them taken from me by way of injury, time, peer availability, and increased responsibility to society.

I played basketball and baseball mostly growing up. I highlighted some of the adjectives I was described as when I was playing as well.

I have some interesting points on INTPs and sports and how we are able to find abstractions in them, even when we are active participants in them. I would share them here but as I said it has developed into a 5 page essay that I am trying to make more succinct.

Currently, the only physical outlets that are in any way appealing to me are shooting a basketball solo, working on my shot technique, and also the best sport ever invented DISC GOLF. Just me an iPod, a basketball, and a hoop there is nothing else that can put to rest any anxiety I am having. Shooting basketball solo has always been my best stress reliever and way to work through anxiety.
Disc Golf is the ultimate solo sport. It is basically free and walking around in nature is one of my favorite things to do in general, so playing a game while doing it is even better. Waking up before anybody else shows up to the course and hucking as many discs as I can, to perfect my technique, is priceless. Got Disc?

 

[Teffnology]

Also, it's not so much that I'm afraid I'll give faulty advice. It's more like, I'm afraid I won't live up to expectations. You know when you really look up to someone, real or fictional, and they screw up big time? And you feel like you have no example to follow anymore? I don't want to do that to someone.

Ahh, I see what you are saying now. I had that happen to me as I was growing up playing baseball and cheering for Mark McGuire and Sammy Sosa thinking they were the greatest athletes ever. I read both of their biographies and even said Sosa was my favorite player on various questionnaires attached to team photos over the years. It was a crushing blow to realize that they were only that good because they cheated. I still have a sour taste in my mouth from baseball because of that. Having gone through this transformation/realization when I was going through puberty it had a major effect on how I viewed sports in general towards the end of high school. It made me very pessimistic from a very young age and influenced my decision making, well if they cheated and lied their way to the top why can't I? So I think I definitely know what you mean, except that I was the one who was let down and to my knowledge haven't let anyone down, in this regard, except for my family's expectations for me and my life, which don't align with mine anyway.

 

[scenefinale]

Architect whole-heartedly believes Larry David is an INTP, and seems to have most typing sites in his corner.

I don't know of any site that has ever typed correctly with more than %25 accuracy. Similarly, having >5,000 posts does not say anything about typing ability. Just the other day I saw someone with more than 2,000 posts creating a thread for the purpose of asking if people could help figure out their personality.

SceneFinale is firm in his ISTP stance, relying mostly on the product of his writing and characters who he says he identifies with, i.e. George Costanza.

I'm a huge fan of Larry David, I've purchased all of his DVD's. I've seen all of his shows several times through. Ni-stare (in contrast to Ne curious eyes which move rapidly); Ne also tends to look up accessing intuition, the "Larry David stare down of suspicion" is the complete opposite of this; speech (Ne is slower and careful); orchestrating schemes and carrying them out without playing any devil's advocate (no Ne "paranoia"); he focuses on one scheme, there is no Ne bouncing around ideas; only ever discussing concrete topics; body type; the list goes on.


Any further discussion and we should take it to a different thread.

 

[Architect]

I don't know of any site that has ever typed correctly with more than %25 accuracy. Similarly, having >5,000 posts does not say anything about typing ability.

Teff said it well (I missed this side thread earlier) - I strongly believe LD is an INTP, we could have a discussion about that, but obviously I could be wrong. The only way to know for sure is for the individual to decide, with the help of a MBTI professional. Instead of bringing it up here why don't you start a new thread to discuss the merits of one versus the other, or drop it.

 

[Brontosaurie]

ISTP yes, look at how he's similar to one dude where i work who is also ISTP. just google it and you will see his resemblance to other ISTP's. one of the first pictures has the "well whadd'ya know, there ya go" facial expression which is a product of ISTP as such: what we have is Ni, not Ne. we get _the_ solution, confidently presented. also what we have is Se, not Ne. it is expressed firmly in the realm of direct physicality; an immediate response to the situation at hand, not the conceptually enthused Ne drift which is substantial only in its childish appeal to sympathy. but it is Ti; both could be. the difference is that ISTP often has an easier time comprehending the real effects of its perpetual contrarianism, by checking with Se. ISTP often becomes a charicature of its Ti. you will get the "teasing quality" shown in the picture. Ti-Ne on the other hand is less concerned with this, as it is less certain. it generates multiple possibilities and ends up in social paranoia and shyness as the preferred coping with inferior Fe. it does not enjoy the same comfort, trust and "silent strong type" slot. but neither does it ever sacrifice personal ideas for convenience. ISTP is more sociable and reliable, INTP is strange, erratic and threatening (in some intangible spooky way) but cute and harmless, a less serious creature in the eyes of society. INTP will never convince anyone and will have ideas that rarely pertain or connect to the reality of people. ISTP is the arbiter of level-headed efficiency, a highly useful person, respected regardless of whether acknowledged.

http://i.lv3.hbo.com/assets/images/series/curb-your-enthusiasm/character/larry-david-1024.jpg

here is the picture i was talking about. it shows an ISTP delivering its crude, world-weary insight. the merit is in wise timing and application of common sense. INTP has its merits in novel content but screws up the timing and application.

 

[Teffnology]

Wasn't trying to ignite discussion on the topic but more trying to clarify that Architect seems unwavering in his LD typing and scenefinale, and now Bronto, think ISTP, for some fairly valid reasons but fall on deaf ears in Architect, so as I have read over his posts over the years.

He references David quite a few times, so I can see the need to want to chime in but I feel that this discrepancy has been established quite a few times and at this point should result in an agree to disagree on Larry David's typing for efficiency purposes, and my own sanity haha.

 

[redbaron]

No because Larry David's type is very important don't you see?

 

[Architect]

The problem with Celebrity typing discussions is that I can't think of a time when anybody ever changed their mind. It seems to be because there are so many details and subtitles you have to dig in to and debate about the individual that it gets lost over the text discussion. For me, I get tired of writing (and I'm sure others get tired of reading), so more than half of what I'm thinking on the subject doesn't make it to the page.

For LD, the INFJ and I have discussed and debated this for many years, and she has dug deeply into his personal life. I think studying and collecting INTP's is a hobby of hers. At any rate I'm personally convinced, but unless we all could sit around a table I'm not sure it can be easily discussed.

Having said that if anybody wants I'm willing to give it a shot, somewhat reluctantly.

 

[Analyzer]

I could see ISTP or INTP for Larry David. In Curb he admits that his character is more honest than what he would normally ever be like. On that show he comes across as a ISTP. Reading his personal life he seems more reluctant and insecure than a ISTP. He explored different outlets and roles in his early life and found writing, which seems more of an extroverted intuition thing than extroverted sensing.

https://news.yahoo.com/larry-david-...vbG8DZ3ExBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDUTFNQzFfMQRzZWMDc2M-

Most ISTP's I know are pretty thick, straightforward and can come across as aggressive(Se). Larry also hasn't done much stand up which I think a ISTP would not have as much of a problem with.

Maybe, we need a ISTP vs INTP thread.

 

[Seteleechete]

I am somewhat odd(or should I say "a variation of an INTP", as I feel avoiding discussing the semantics of "odd", at least atm). Anyway I am somewhat odd in that I don't require or seek deeper knowledge in most subjects. That is not to say I shun it, just that I don't feel a need of acquiring it. I like to have the basics so I can analyse and debate a subject but from there I often use reasonable assumptions rather than actual facts. The main reason is that I just don't care about things I have no intention of using in some way. Take something like "Latin American culture" I know some basics but I could actually care less about the subject itself, I have no use for it. I have never seen knowledge for knowledges sake as a strong enough reason to seek it out.

On the topic of celebrities I think we INTPs simply use intellectuals for the same function in order to replace them. So if someone gushes over Brittney Spears it would be equivalent to an INTP admiring (analysing?) Einstein. It is simply a matter of having an idol. Also I am new.