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Any other INTP's bad at maths ?

Oprale

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I feel like I'm alone in this. I've always sucked at maths. It made me bad at science too, since those two overlap. But I admit I never tried hard to get good at them.

I love logic, like any INTP, however those subjects were never easy for me and I never liked them.
 

Analyzer

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I've never enjoyed math but was good at it growing up. Got bored of it and lost complete interest in my mid-teens. I enjoy letters, maps, and languages more than numbers or puzzles. Geometry is the only math subject which holds some interest, but not really. I struggle with anything above basic algebra now.
 

Anktark

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By "sucked at maths" you mean that you had a hard time trying to understand it or that you got bad grades?
My take on this is that math by itself can be too far removed and Ne can a hard time drawing connections in a vacuum.

Personally, I appreciate math, but by itself it's... tasteless. I remember understanding it rather quickly in school, but often getting bad grades, because I would forget some detail or leave out something action or wouldn't write out the solution in detail. Unless you have a good teacher, learning math in school is equivalent to eating eggshells- after a while you are convinced you don't like eggs.
However, if need math to understand something or optimize- I will nibble at it until I get it and the process itself doesn't feel arduous.
 

Brander

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I've always struggled in math, from a young age.
 

HDINTP

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I had changeable relationship with maths in my life. At the beginning I was considered good at it and liked it then in 7th grade I lost interest and was "untouched" by it until 2nd year in high school where I encountered awesome teacher and by the 3rd year of HS I got fully back to maths and concluded that it is destined to me do maths. Since then I never backed down and if such a thought ever crossed my mind I always remembered my this teacher. Now I am looking forward to study maths besides other subjects at university...:)

PS: You say you never really tried so just do it and see where it leads you. Maybe you are talented. I read a while back about a mathematician who struggled with maths during his teens, switched schools and guess what? He met an awesome teacher too, got into it and the rest is history...
 

Caffeine

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Currently im thinking about learning math all over again because i will need it while doing my masters. However this time i will engineer my learning process.
I know that solving a lot of problems doesnt work with me, because i cant see where im going while sloving them. I need to see the big picture, so this time i will start top-down. I will start with the theory and what was on their minds when they invented each theory. Perhaps this way it will be a lot easier and i will enjoy it too.

What do you think?
 

dark+matters

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I have always been slow at math, but I'm capable of doing well enough at it. I wish I hadn't been so intimidated by it when I initially graduated from high school. Now, I think that anyone can do it if they are realistic about how much information they can retain at a given speed and how much work it is and if they refuse to compare themselves to anyone else. Being humble enough to accept failure with grace and persistence has helped me a lot.

Like any other skill, it takes a lot of time and effort for most to be able to pick it up and wield it relatively effortlessly. I think everyone has areas of math they pick up more naturally versus areas they don't. Whatever successes I've had with math has always depended on my ability to get one-on-one support from mentors who are heavy on "why-" but there's no way I could do well in any math class without doing tons and tons of problems- even beyond the given homework. (That's exactly what I'm doing right now for my finals.) There are always dozens and dozens of questions that come up for me as I start to work out a problem. I could never just listen to a really good lecture or a really good vine of videos and then do well when tested on the material. It isn't like picking up better English skills; most people do not use math beyond basic arithmetic on a day to day basis. Math skills dry up really fast for me, but if I really invested in learning the basic concepts to begin with, I can pick them up again. I'm looking at trying to pick up a language I learned and completely forgot as well since I didn't speak it or read it often enough. I expect that there will be some similarities.

When it comes to science, I think that the expectations for student learning in the classroom are generally not well defined, so it's frustrating. Looking at it from an enneagram 5 perspective, I have always liked the idea of learning math in order to be able to strategize better, or becoming a scientist in order to become more secure- more of a lynch pin in a niche subject and not having to interact with the general public on a daily basis. I don't think that the choice to learn math or science should have much to do with natural talent. Even the most talented people eventually hit a brick wall. I think it's worth learning STEM subjects and getting poorer grades and having to work harder (possibly even having to retake some classes or take more time to graduate in order to do research or learn to teach or tutor) because it teaches us to think about the world in terms of systems. There's more of a pay-off in the end for STEM education, even though there's more of a risk for dropping out or getting low grades.

Well... now I need to get back to work on reviewing chapters 2 and 3... *sigh*
 

Happy

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I love mathematical concepts and solving mathematical problems. I was always very good at solving problems, but never using the standard method of finding a solution. I'd always look for multiple ways to come to the same solution. Back in high school, where we had to provide our working out, I completely struggled. I always got the right answer, but so much of my working was just automatic computations in my head that more often than not, I'd just write an answer by itself. I kept failing despite always getting the correct answer.
I worked out many math concepts by myself before ever being exposed to them in a classroom, so my method would usually not be the specific one we were supposed to use and it would often be backed by really fuzzy logic. I tend to see patterns, rather than methods. I've never been one to follow instructions.

HOWEVER:
I'm completely terrible with number crunching. I couldn't comprehend a spreadsheet if my life depended on it. I'm shit at crunching financial figures and the like. I think that might be something to do with ADHD. I lose focus after reading a couple of numbers.

tl:dr
I thrive when manipulating numerical data as a problem, but struggle when interpreting raw numeric data.

Anyone else in this boat?
 

HDINTP

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I love mathematical concepts and solving mathematical problems. I was always very good at solving problems, but never using the standard method of finding a solution. I'd always look for multiple ways to come to the same solution. Back in high school, where we had to provide our working out, I completely struggled. I always got the right answer, but so much of my working was just automatic computations in my head that more often than not, I'd just write an answer by itself. I kept failing despite always getting the correct answer.
I worked out many math concepts by myself before ever being exposed to them in a classroom, so my method would usually not be the specific one we were supposed to use and it would often be backed by really fuzzy logic. I tend to see patterns, rather than methods. I've never been one to follow instructions.

THIS has been a problem of mine back with elementary school physics
 

Happy

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THIS has been a problem of mine back with elementary school physics

I don't understand. You learned physics in elementary school? Or you learned about physics on your own time while you were at elementary school?
 

Seteleechete

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I love mathematical concepts and solving mathematical problems. I was always very good at solving problems, but never using the standard method of finding a solution. I'd always look for multiple ways to come to the same solution. Back in high school, where we had to provide our working out, I completely struggled. I always got the right answer, but so much of my working was just automatic computations in my head that more often than not, I'd just write an answer by itself. I kept failing despite always getting the correct answer.
I worked out many math concepts by myself before ever being exposed to them in a classroom, so my method would usually not be the specific one we were supposed to use and it would often be backed by really fuzzy logic. I tend to see patterns, rather than methods. I've never been one to follow instructions.

lol I got around this problem actually, I would always first find the solution the same way you do, then I would make the new problem *What is the method that fits this solution* basically I first found the solution just scribbling down random numbers and formulas that fit, then I did reverse counting starting from the solution going back to the question.

Now this had limited results when I got into advanced graphs/calculus and differential equations(though I am sure it is cuz I never learnt the basic formulas and methods all that well) but it never stopped working for physics.
 

HDINTP

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I don't understand. You learned physics in elementary school? Or you learned about physics on your own time while you were at elementary school?

Yes in ES otherwise I would not have problem with what I mentioned. Actually I can illustrate same issue at maths for word problems since physics is mostly word problem solving.

PS: just one year and this trend continued before I entered high school then stopped (because I never took high school physics in formal sense)

But I probably understand your confusion because I might also call elementary school through to 9th grade (which is not that way in your country is it?)
 

Bock

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I wouldn't say bad but it's definitely not a strong point either (not that i've ever truly tried...). Even with simple arithmetic axioms i struggle to motivate myself, i find it intensely boring.
 

Caffeine

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ovLbCvq7FNA

How come this was never explained to me in school?
was i supposed to figure this out by solving problems?
starting with the complete idea and the purpose behind it, then moving to solving problems is they way i would teach someone anything.
programing in university was taught to me in the same dry way math was taught in school. please someone explain to me why?! is it the SJs who made our education system?
 

Oprale

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I enjoy letters, maps, and languages more than numbers or puzzles. Geometry is the only math subject which holds some interest, but not really.

That's exactly how I have always been.

By "sucked at maths" you mean that you had a hard time trying to understand it or that you got bad grades?

Both, in my case one leaded to the other. Most of all, I had a hard time keeping focus. I understood well in the first 10 minutes but then I got bored, a random thought distracted me and I got lost for the rest of the hour. I was too shy to ask questions and get back on track, somehow I feared showing my lack of understanding in front of my classmates. Before long I couldn't even see how deep in shit I was, like, I didn't even know what I didn't know...

Of course, that leaded me to fail a lot.

Personally, I appreciate math, but by itself it's... tasteless.
[...]
Unless you have a good teacher, learning math in school is equivalent to eating eggshells- after a while you are convinced you don't like eggs.

PS: You say you never really tried so just do it and see where it leads you. Maybe you are talented. I read a while back about a mathematician who struggled with maths during his teens, switched schools and guess what? He met an awesome teacher too, got into it and the rest is history...

I know that solving a lot of problems doesnt work with me, because i cant see where im going while sloving them. I need to see the big picture, so this time i will start top-down. I will start with the theory and what was on their minds when they invented each theory. Perhaps this way it will be a lot easier and i will enjoy it too.

I love the eggshells metaphor.

I remember there was 2 years where I didn't sruggle with maths as much as I usually do.
It was in elementary school, at a time where I quit public school to learn at home. My mom thaught me maths among other subjects I needed. She did not study to become a teacher, she just did it, and it went very well.

I learnt everything I had to learn in a normal year in half the time. The other half was just making sure I understood everything well and practizing to make sure I do not forget. I think there are two big reasons why it went so well :

My mom only had to teach to me and my brother. She could spend a lot of time on our sole education, unlike teachers who have strict class hours to follow and 20+ students to teach to at once.
It speeded up the process because 1 - she could adapt to the way we liked to learn the best, and 2 - once we understood something she could pass directly to the next thing. It can't be like that in a normal class because not everyone learn at the same speed, nor in the same way. It also allowed her to see immediatly if we were lunatic and bring us back to reality.

And whenever we asked her why we had to learn something, she always had a satisfying answer, not just to get good grades and then get a good job, like most people would say.

I still struggled in maths compared to other subjects, but I never learned this fast in my life.

I went back to public in high school, mainly because my mom couldn't teach more advanced subjects on her own. I had excellent grades in everything except maths and sciences, where I didn't started really bad but then slowly went downhill.

So I guess I could just never adapt to the way STEM are thaught, and not to STEM themselves.

I wish I hadn't been so intimidated by it when I initially graduated from high school. Now, I think that anyone can do it if they are realistic about how much information they can retain at a given speed and how much work it is and if they refuse to compare themselves to anyone else. Being humble enough to accept failure with grace and persistence has helped me a lot.

I wish I thaught like that when I first went through my classes in high school. I will have to retake them because I failed, and it just feels like a big waste of time. The hardest thing I will have to do in order to succed is to accept failure and fight the shyness of exposing it to others by asking questions when everybody already understood. I will also have to find a good source of motivation, a goal that learning those subjects will make me reach ( because learning in itself isn't a motivating goal to me ).

I'm thinking of maybe becoming an architect. It can become a nice goal, if the job definitively looks nice to me.

When it comes to science, I think that the expectations for student learning in the classroom are generally not well defined, so it's frustrating. Looking at it from an enneagram 5 perspective, I have always liked the idea of learning math in order to be able to strategize better, or becoming a scientist in order to become more secure- more of a lynch pin in a niche subject and not having to interact with the general public on a daily basis.

It sure sounds great.

I love mathematical concepts and solving mathematical problems. I was always very good at solving problems, but never using the standard method of finding a solution. I'd always look for multiple ways to come to the same solution. Back in high school, where we had to provide our working out, I completely struggled. I always got the right answer, but so much of my working was just automatic computations in my head that more often than not, I'd just write an answer by itself. I kept failing despite always getting the correct answer.

That's kinda how I work with language. I know, without knowing how I know. The right ways to write or say something just pops in my head, and I'm not always right, but I oftenly am. Happily for me, having to explain why a phrase is formulated in a specific way happens quite rarely, even in class.
 

Seteleechete

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is it the SJs who made our education system?
I'd narrow it down to Hegel specifically.

"The unfortunate urge to educate the individual in thinking for himself and being self-productive has cast a shadow over truth." - (Report to Niethammer, 23 October 1812).

"One of the chief factors in education is discipline, the purport of which is to break down the child’s self-will and thereby eradicate his purely natural and sensuous self." - (Philosophy of Right, §174a).

"This self-will, this germ of evil, must be broken and destroyed by discipline.” - (Subjective Spirit §396n).

"The assertion that the teacher should carefully adjust himself to the individuality of each of his pupils, studying and developing it, must be treated as idle chatter." - (Subjective Spirit §395n.)

"The most rational thing that children can do with their toys is to break them." - (Subjective Spirit §396n).
 

TBerg

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The fucking Prussians, man, and their insistence upon machinery at all cost. We need to bring back the Trivium or continue to slide towards the Borg.
 

Analyzer

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The fucking Prussians, man, and their insistence upon machinery at all cost. We need to bring back the Trivium or continue to slide towards the Borg.

Yeah that's interesting. Were they responsible for turning education into training or just insisting that the mechanics of the world is the only thing that matters?

Classical education in general has become either a novelty or irrelevant in today's world. The consequences have been or are now becoming felt. But maybe this is how it's suppose to be. It's easier to train a monkey than make them reflective and rhetorical.
 

Mani

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I loved Algebra. Hated the 'If I have 5 oranges' questions because the language didn't make sense to me.
 
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