An INFJ in a brain storm really needing your help

[FBY]

The story is with my INTP colleague that has started 2 yrs ago when I've not even known him, he appeared me once at class, it was: hey you're (...) and I'm (...) we've the same last name! Then talked to me for awhile when he mentioned that he knew I've been among the top 100 students so maybe we can study together sometime
As an INFJ I didn't approach him ever again...then again after awhile at the same year he caught me among my friends outside the class and shouted asking if he can greet me or it'll also embarrass

​

me? I just laughed surprisingly
Towards the end of that year he called me on phone asking me about the time of exams and so..I didn't know the answer of his question so I asked him to wait and I'll ask the administor as I'm at collage and will be back to him,,he kept laughing as saying ok
I forgot all of that then I needed to ask him a

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bout something they told me he can help me at so we kept talking for awhile..I've been decided to deactivate my account before start talking to him so I told him just as noticing that I'm going to do so, his reaction was huge! He got angry at me that if he knew I would leave he wouldn't have ever talked to me...I apologized and got peace with him then left
At the same day I deactivated my account he sent me a text on my phone that I've already been missed! I replied on him then the contact was back
Then he told me he has feelings for me..I've never been in a relationship before so I was a mess and messed it all up and ended everything after he started not replying on me regularly and got mad a lot on me..that was a year ago
Recently I congratulated him for succeeding an important exam, he just thanked me..later on that day he contacted me, and we reconnected again, on that day he said its for shame that we separated, I told him we were crazy, he said that was a good thing
On the last 3 months I pushed him away twice, and he somehow fixed it..this third last time I texted him something similar to pushing away but I was just expressing my feelings, he didn't reply and started avoiding me completely at school
But lately when we meet he keeps staring directly into my eyes, and when we're at the same place I feel he wants to approach me but he didn't..I tried contacting him a lot with no response..I tried to talk to him personally the day after I texted him that pushing away msg but he refused talking to me
I want to understand what's going on? Is there a hope I do miss him a lot

[JUSTIF][/JUSTIF]​

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

You came here to ask social advice from INTPs? lol

I suggest you have yourself a good, long read: http://www.the16types.info/vbulletin/content.php/82-Benefit-relations

Sometimes you're just not going to get answers, because sometimes other people aren't able to give them to you for various reasons.

 

[FBY]

I like straightforwardness even if it hurts
Hurting someone is the most important reason why I don't give answers
Thanx for replying
I'll check the link

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

I like straightforwardness even if it hurts

I know. This is how the dynamic works in general:

INTP needs space but is too out of touch with emotions to realize this until it's too late and doesn't know how to communicate this, so they don't. They disappear.

INFJ needs an answer to explain wtf is going on because hey, people normally just don't act like that, and because if we hurt them, then we want to fix that, because being hurt sucks. INFJ pursues answers.

INTP still doesn't know how to respond and doesn't understand the INFJ's emotional depth and vulnerability, so they still don't respond, and they see the INFJ as needy and demanding for wanting to meet an emotional need that they themselves don't have, and sometimes this is enough to allow them to write the INFJ off and move on.

INFJ gets hurt, and there's a good chance INTP doesn't even realize it, or if they do, they rationalize it or don't learn and realize that the whole thing could have been prevented with just a tiny amount of effort, because, like, INFJs totally understand if someone needs space or feels a certain way, but we don't understand random unspoken withdrawal.

This keeps going until either the INTP learns to pay attention to their emotions and communicate or the INFJ gives up.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

You will see, on this forum and elsewhere on the internet, plenty of claims that INTP-INFJ relationships are the bees knees and the best thing ever. This is bullshit, and mostly for the INFJ.

 

[Architect]

You will see, on this forum and elsewhere on the internet, plenty of claims that INTP-INFJ relationships are the bees knees and the best thing ever. This is bullshit, and mostly for the INFJ.

Really? Why so? There are successful INTJ-INTP marriages that might indicate otherwise, such as Drenth/Elaine and Architect/BrideOfArchitect. We've been together over 30 years now (shit), certainly there have been difficult times but it's been a great pairing.

You'd have to ask, what else is there? NF clearly, but not INFP as they're way too close to the INTP (I have several INFP friends and know that a relationship wouldn't be the best). That leaves ENFJ and ENFP. Now I can't re-run history, I don't know what it would like to be with one of them for 30 years, but I think it would work great. With one exception ... extroversion. They'd get sick of my stay at home, and I'd not like all the after work people contact they'd need (going out, having people over, etc ...). An INFJ is a much more social person than an INTP, but it's never a problem for me.

There are many other aspects to the relationship as to why it works so well, but that should be sufficiently clear. Ultimately, from an INFJ perspective, the benefit is they are generally fascinated and comforted by us, because we put their NiFe whirlwind in perspective.

 

[Architect]

The story is with my INTP colleague that has started 2 yrs ago when I've not even known him ... I do miss him a lot

That reads like an INFJ NiFe dump, oh how familiar I am with it ...

Your story (as best as I could parse from that mess) reads much like ours (see previous post). Short version, we worked together, I was asking every girl out for a date (just getting desperate I guess) and asked her out for coffee shortly after she started. She was startled and I got the impression she wasn't interested. Secretly over the next year she fell madly in love with me, but I had written her off. Then, as I was about to date a religious nut job, a coworker alerted me to the fact that she was rather interested. "Whaaaa, her?" OK I asked her out, we went to the beach, kissed on her porch and fireworks went off in my head. Took us another 8 years to get married - why bother when we were married in our hearts?

Go ahead and reel him in. The poor clunk isn't even aware of his feelings for you probably, he's too busy trying to analyze the situation. Get together and just start dating, you won't regret it.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Really? Why so? There are successful INTJ-INTP marriages that might indicate otherwise, such as Drenth/Elaine and Architect/BrideOfArchitect. We've been together over 30 years now (shit), certainly there have been difficult times but it's been a great pairing.

You'd have to ask, what else is there? NF clearly, but not INFP as they're way too close to the INTP (I have several INFP friends and know that a relationship wouldn't be the best). That leaves ENFJ and ENFP. Now I can't re-run history, I don't know what it would like to be with one of them for 30 years, but I think it would work great. With one exception ... extroversion. They'd get sick of my stay at home, and I'd not like all the after work people contact they'd need (going out, having people over, etc ...). An INFJ is a much more social person than an INTP, but it's never a problem for me.

There are many other aspects to the relationship as to why it works so well, but that should be sufficiently clear. Ultimately, from an INFJ perspective, the benefit is they are generally fascinated and comforted by us, because we put their NiFe whirlwind in perspective.

To be completely honest, I'm a lot more interested in the Bride's perspective here, particularly on things like how she gets through to you when you're oblivious, how or if she got you to reciprocate on emotional and social planes, how or if she's convinced you to value and support her emotional needs and personal interests that don't mesh with yours, and how she manages to suppress the urge to strangle you Homer Simpson style. She'll know what I mean when she reads that.

I'm not going to buy into anecdotal examples, just straight up. It has much less to do with type and so much more to do with openness and maturity; overcoming self-doubt, trusting others who are different and think differently, trying new things, being expressive, and not conflating competence and confidence. If the OP's friend doesn't do or want to make a conscious decision to do these things, there's no reason to go there. There are better alternatives.

For me personally, I like the loyalty of ENFPs, the learning curve and challenge of INFPs, and the ease of interaction with my own type. I'm willing to work for those. INTPs are more tempting than any of them, but I risk putting in 10x what I get out and thus never being able to fulfill my own potential.

 

[Architect]

To be completely honest, I'm a lot more interested in the Bride's perspective here,

Sure, we've been through all this. I don't succeed all the time but I've worked to do better.

particularly on things like how she gets through to you when you're oblivious,

I guess this comes up when I'm trying to help her without understanding where she comes from. But to be fair, she will usually say something different than what is really bothering her, so it's not like I'm usually getting a lot of clues. Otherwise I can be a lunkhead on certain things, male Thinker versus female Feeler kind of thing. Generally though she could be more aggressive on this, she'll give into me being oblivious on something too much, and I've said as much.

how or if she got you to reciprocate on emotional and social planes,

Doesn't make sense, there's always emotional and social reciprocation - has to be. I'm not as emotionally responsive to her as she is in general, but that's how we are and she wouldn't like it if I was some gooey feeler male. Socially I run parties at our house better - she melts down with the responsibility, which is tough on me so we don't do it much. I don't like going out much after work because I've been socializing all day (to some degree), which she respects.

how or if she's convinced you to value and support her emotional needs and personal interests that don't mesh with yours,

on emotional needs we go for frequent walks where we talk things out, always done it and is mutually (emotionally and otherwise) beneficial.

On interests. by circumstances I've got a broad humanities background so I happily go with her to art museums and bookstores. Together we go to a Shakespeare festival every year, and we watch art movies she picks out on a weekly basis. I don't have an extensive art background (her main interest) but have worked at it over the years so have a working knowledge and ability (trying my hand at video game art presently).

and how she manages to suppress the urge to strangle you Homer Simpson style. She'll know what I mean when she reads that.

shrug ... we both have been in that position. Overall not much help on your questions, we're more alike than different in the important ways which yes, I would ascribe to type. Where we mainly differ is the Feeling dominance versus Thinking.

It has much less to do with type and so much more to do with openness and maturity; overcoming self-doubt, trusting others who are different and think differently, trying new things, being expressive, and not conflating competence and confidence. If the OP's friend doesn't do or want to make a conscious decision to do these things, there's no reason to go there. There are better alternatives.

Obviously; the OP appears to be asking about Type on this one so I responded in kind.

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

I wish she could respond without reading your response first.

Obviously; the OP appears to be asking about Type on this one so I responded in kind.

When you read the last few sentences of the OP, did you actually read them?

 

[FBY]

Thanx for your responses!
Thanx Architect for sharing your story! It inspired the stupid INFJ hope in me lol
Since he has recently blocked me on the Whatsapp

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

Since he has recently blocked me on the Whatsapp

Yeah if he's blocked you, take that as a sign and at minimum give him space, if you're not dropping him entirely for the time being. Space needed.

He has the right to not communicate with you. He has as much freedom to choose to mature as to be immature. And you have to respect either one of them.

And it's also highly unlikely you're a finished product either. Keep that in mind too. INFJs are prone to dependent features. Don't go justifying an irrational perception that you're already too needy, demanding, and emotionally volatile. I personally think you both need more time in the oven.

 

[FBY]

And it's also highly unlikely you're a finished product either. Keep that in mind too. INFJs are prone to dependent features. Don't go justifying an irrational perception that you're already too needy, demanding, and emotionally volatile. I personally think you both need more time in the oven.

Sorry I don't think I really understood you in this; English isn't my first language

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

It's alright. Basically, keep in mind that you yourself are also young, inexperienced, and probably immature in your own ways. It just might not be the right timing yet.

It takes two people who are willing to be open and honest with themselves to form a successful relationship.

 

[FBY]

Yes, I totally agree with you that I may be so
But I thought we can grow up together, this is also one of relationships goals, and I felt that I do grow with him

 

[FBY]

I sent him this msg but he didn't reply:

I like being a friend with you and don't lose you
You make me laugh. You're smart. You're a little crazy. And both our differences and similarities push and challenge me to a kind of growth
I know you also have things about me that you like and don't want to lose
I know that our relationship has hurt you
I kept pushing you away
Its kinda immature, but I push those who I get close with away while all I really need is them pulling me closer
Fixing it by you last time I did that had a depth you'd not imagine in my heart...I appreciated that and liked that you somehow help me make sense of how I feel...but it seems I relayed too much on that to a degree that unintentionally hurts
Also I don't stress right away on what might has annoyed me or touched me in a bad way which now I believe it takes me to the mess of overthinking and you to the mess of the consequences of that
Plus I don't talk directly about what I need from you the moment I need it which has it's harmful impact too
I've pushed hard on you by my texts recently while all I wanted from the first day I felt like arguing is to talk openly
I like knowing your thoughts, always- even if its: "that's so stupid"

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

That's the tough part. Growing together is pretty much what a relationship is about. You can try for the relationship now, but just realize that if he's not where he's not committed to growth, growing together can't happen. So just pay attention and don't let yourself go in too deep too quickly if you choose that route.

 

[redbaron]

Yes, I totally agree with you that I may be so
But I thought we can grow up together, this is also one of relationships goals, and I felt that I do grow with him

Nauseating.

I swear every single relationship I've ever seen where the goal is, "let's grow together and be soulmates lol!!!" turns out to be the biggest waste of time for both people involved - because differences in personality are not interpreted as just individual differences or parts of someone's personality that they prefer or want, it's like a thing with way too much significance attached that must be 'understood' for 'growth'.

I quote-unquote those two words because 'understood' is interchangeable with 'agree with each other' and 'growth' is the misinterpreted idea that coming to agreement constitutes actual growth, when it doesn't.

 

[FBY]

I'm not sure whether he's into that growth or just doesn't care, you see that he didn't reply so I don't know..I can't go on in anything before having a sign that we're in the same route; INFJs! Lol
Is that right or..?

 

[redbaron]

Don't know, maybe it's right for you?

There's really one criteria that a relationship should start with, and that's whether or not you can talk with that person and enjoy it. If you didn't start with that, you fucked up.

From the sounds of it, him getting randomly mad and ignoring you means you probably don't talk well and/or talking ends in frustration a lot of the time. I'd honestly not bother. I tend to cut loose on that style of relationship and feel 50x happier for doing it. No point getting trapped in a regret loop beccause every relationship has some good aspects (or it wouldn't happen at all) and that's not really unique to any one relationship.

Unless you really think he's that amazing that you can't live without him, just move on (or embrace endless cycle of breakups and random confusing messages). If he's giving you confusing messages he probably doesn't know how to express what he wants to say. You could try getting him to express, but you might not like what he expresses either. Up to you to decide whether he's worth a whole lot of effort and anguish - I don't know how close/special he is to you.

 

[FBY]

Sorry my last reply was for Lagomorph

 

[redbaron]

Sorry my last reply was for Lagomorph

Not acceptable, you owe me $57 for the time I spent typing my reply.

 

[FBY]

I liked what you said Redbaron
By my growth I only mean that being with a person with such differences than me lightens some new areas for me that I've not experienced, like just as one simple example: the thinking feeling difference, I felt I've been living in an ocean of emotions that carrys and covers everything in my life..at first I got kinda hurt by his logic, but as time passes I learned how to start dealing with it as a part of him and getting benefit from that
I never believe in trying to change someone else! That's a real waste of time! And I don't like it to be done with me so I'd never try doing it with someone else, I agree with the quote: If you really love someone, you have to be prepared to accept them as they are. Maybe you hope that one day they get a wake-up call and make the changes for their own reasons
I do enjoy talking and being with him! I like him as he is, he is sure about that and says that is one of the things he most likes about me
Getting upset with someone sometimes doesn't mean you are trying to change them; it can be a misunderstanding that can be solved with the minimum open communication

 

[FBY]

Not acceptable, you owe me $57 for the time I spent typing my reply.

Just 57$ ! I think it deserves 100

 

[FBY]

Don't know, maybe it's right for you?

There's really one criteria that a relationship should start with, and that's whether or not you can talk with that person and enjoy it. If you didn't start with that, you fucked up.

From the sounds of it, him getting randomly mad and ignoring you means you probably don't talk well and/or talking ends in frustration a lot of the time. I'd honestly not bother. I tend to cut loose on that style of relationship and feel 50x happier for doing it. No point getting trapped in a regret loop beccause every relationship has some good aspects (or it wouldn't happen at all) and that's not really unique to any one relationship.

Unless you really think he's that amazing that you can't live without him, just move on (or embrace endless cycle of breakups and random confusing messages). If he's giving you confusing messages he probably doesn't know how to express what he wants to say. You could try getting him to express, but you might not like what he expresses either. Up to you to decide whether he's worth a whole lot of effort and anguish - I don't know how close/special he is to you.

The reply before this that deserves 100 not this

If everyone thinks this way how would ever be long lasting relationships..??

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

I'm not sure whether he's into that growth or just doesn't care, you see that he didn't reply so I don't know..I can't go on in anything before having a sign that we're in the same route; INFJs! Lol
Is that right or..?

I pretty much agree entirely with redbaron. Based on his actions, it's probably 99.99999999% likely he's not ready to consider you as a mate, and may never again. He seems to be doing his best to hide from you. Give it a year and see if anything changes, and meanwhile, free yourself to pursue other people. Honestly, there's a good chance you'll find one you like better anyway.

 

[redbaron]

The reply before this that deserves 100 not this

If everyone thinks this way how would ever be long lasting relationships..??

When you find someone who you enjoy talking to and where conversation doesn't frequently end up annoying one or the other. Some topics might irritate certain people but from the sounds of it he just struggles even doing basic interaction with you.

What I said doesn't mean long lasting relationships exist, it just means you don't enter into bad ones in the first place or waste time trying to keep a relationship with someone who's not even a good pairing in the first place. Which isn't killing some potential for long lasting relations either because if you're just not good for each other then you'll end up breaking up later anyway.

A lot of people end up being in really long, drawn out relationships that they feel were a total waste of time in the end. In 5 years if you're still going back and forth and agonizing over this guy, that'd be a huge waste imo. I don't really know the specifics but from what you've said it sounds like the starting point isn't that great.

 

[FBY]

I pretty much agree entirely with redbaron. Based on his actions, it's probably 99.99999999% likely he's not ready to consider you as a mate, and may never again. He seems to be doing his best to hide from you. Give it a year and see if anything changes, and meanwhile, free yourself to pursue other people. Honestly, there's a good chance you'll find one you like better anyway.

I don't deal with such drama usually, I've a version in whom I bring close to me..my doubts now are coming from my feeling of guilt that I kept pushing him away too much while he didn't treat me any bad; it was just my immaturity and hypersensitivity
We talked about being just friends but even I pushed away so I think he has been hurt..am I right.. :/?

 

[FBY]

When you find someone who you enjoy talking to and where conversation doesn't frequently end up annoying one or the other. Some topics might irritate certain people but from the sounds of it he just struggles even doing basic interaction with you.

What I said doesn't mean long lasting relationships exist, it just means you don't enter into bad ones in the first place or waste time trying to keep a relationship with someone who's not even a good pairing in the first place. Which isn't killing some potential for long lasting relations either because if you're just not good for each other then you'll end up breaking up later anyway.

A lot of people end up being in really long, drawn out relationships that they feel were a total waste of time in the end. In 5 years if you're still going back and forth and agonizing over this guy, that'd be a huge waste imo. I don't really know the specifics but from what you've said it sounds like the starting point isn't that great.

I'm asking what you think about what I said in reply to Lagomorph if possible..

 

[FBY]

I really appreciate your interaction! It's bringing me some relief
I'm considering everything you say

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Yeah, well this so-called INFJ better show their fucking face, or get the fuck out and stop talking through other people.

Ya diggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg?

can't post that though, can I?

*woops*

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

I don't deal with such drama usually, I've a version in whom I bring close to me..my doubts now are coming from my feeling of guilt that I kept pushing him away too much while he didn't treat me any bad; it was just my immaturity and hypersensitivity
We talked about being just friends but even I pushed away so I think he has been hurt..am I right.. :/?

Pretty much. Here's something Auburn wrote that I think is applicable here:

"Every relationship is simultaneously a relationship with oneself, wherein you nurture yourself by allowing certain experiences to be had; adding vitality to your own mind/heart often by unlocking aspects of yourself in the process. In this sense, we are caring just as much for ourselves (in no malevolent sense) as for the other."

It's not as bad if you learn from your mistakes.

Yeah, well this so-called INFJ better show their fucking face, or get the fuck out and stop talking through other people.

Ya diggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg?

can't post that though, can I?

*woops*

Give her time.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

Give her time.

Give WHO time, LAGOMORPH?

GIVE WHO TIME?

Because I do not fucking know this person.

This forum has some hiding in the shadows fucker that I have never seen the fucking face of.

So who the fuck... who the FUCK are you talking about?

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

I thought you meant that she should be up front, think for herself, and stop relying on others for advice. When I said give her time, I meant that she probably isn't ready to do that yet. She still has learning to do.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

I thought you meant that she should be up front, think for herself, and stop relying on others for advice. When I said give her time, I meant that she probably isn't ready to do that yet. She still has learning to do.

Who?

You don't even fucking know who I am talking about.

 

[Artsu Tharaz]

You've been on this forum for a month, Lagomorph. You think you can push me around?

 

[FBY]

Pretty much. Here's something Auburn wrote that I think is applicable here:

"Every relationship is simultaneously a relationship with oneself, wherein you nurture yourself by allowing certain experiences to be had; adding vitality to your own mind/heart often by unlocking aspects of yourself in the process. In this sense, we are caring just as much for ourselves (in no malevolent sense) as for the other."

It's not as bad if you learn from your mistakes.

Yes I recognized my mistake..even though I never mean it..as an INFJ I've things in my personality that are needed to be understood in order to not be interpreted wrong...I have just recently knew MBTI which helped me a lot in understanding myself..and just in a soon previous period I asked him to take the test and knew he's an INTP which helped me a lot in understanding some important things..he says he's not interested in MBTI so he doesn't know about my personality

Give her time.

What did he mean..? I couldn't really understand

 

[FBY]

I thought you meant that she should be up front, think for herself, and stop relying on others for advice. When I said give her time, I meant that she probably isn't ready to do that yet. She still has learning to do.

Thank you
I do my thinking but for awhile I felt like I'm going to lose my mind cuz he was my only close friend that I can tell anything now I've literally no one to talk to about this and he is not replying to give me an explanation at least..that's why I appreciate this conversation...I'll really consider what u're all saying but I have my mind too

 

[Ex-User (13503)]

You've been on this forum for a month, Lagomorph. You think you can push me around?

Chill, man. It's alright.

What did he mean..? I couldn't really understand

He means that when you're in a relationship, it's more about learning from the other person and discovering yourself than it is about you helping them.

 

[FBY]

Yeah, well this so-called INFJ better show their fucking face, or get the fuck out and stop talking through other people.

Ya diggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggg?

can't post that though, can I?

*woops*

Sorry I couldn't really understand you
English isn't my first language so I don't get the exact meanings sometimes...

 

[FBY]

Chill, man. It's alright.

He means that when you're in a relationship, it's more about learning from the other person and discovering yourself than it is about you helping them.

He who was helping me not the opposite! And I said that I was learning from him that's one of the main things I like about our relationship

 

[FBY]

http://personalitygrowth.com/the-truth-behind-the-infj-paradox-explained/

I've found this the day before yesterday; it really helped me understand some important things about me
I hoped he'd read it, but I'm not sure if he'd

 

[FBY]

He came and talked to me today at school, and said how much he missed me!