American Psycho - Patrick Bateman Type?

[Inquisitor]

This has been discussed on other sites, but I wanted to get people's take on this...What is Patrick Bateman's type? Obviously, there's not going to be a single right answer here because he's a fictional character who's an amalgamation of everything the author feels is wrong with society. That said, I feel almost totally certain he's ESFP. I'm basing that on the fact that his primary motivation in life is how he is perceived by others. He wants to "fit in" at all costs, he's highly detail-oriented, noticing everything about a person's clothes, accessories, possessions, where they live, who they know, essentially catalogues everything. The reason he doesn't experience much in the way of emotions can be explained away by the fact that he's a psychopath.

ESFPs’ functional stack is composed of the following functions:

Dominant: Extraverted Sensing (Se)

Auxiliary: Introverted Feeling (Fi)

Tertiary: Extraverted Thinking (Te)

Inferior: Introverted Intuition (Ni)

ESFP Profile

The Se is obvious in the book and the movie. I was originally gonna go with ESFJ because their inferior is Ti, and Bateman frequently mentions that he lacks inner control, but now that I have reviewed the literature on this, ESFP is the probable match. Ni manifests clearly during the scenes when he describes his ideas on music to others and gives advice about how to fix the world. In those scenes, he fancies himself a wise, enlightened human being. But really, he's full of shit.

He's fairly lazy at work, lacks ambition, spends all his time looking for thrills, doing cocaine in bathrooms, banging hookers, chopping people up into bits, indulging in luxury and being very conscious of his appearance. All of this smacks of a spoiled ESFP who absolutely must keep up with the latest fashions and is doing everything he can to feel something. It must suck not being able to access Fi due to the psychopathy. That's why he recognizes that a big part of him is missing. He has very little sense of internal control due to the faulty wiring in his brain.

Anyhow, your thoughts?

Update: Enneagram 3's description of unhealthy level 9 is uncannily accurate for Bateman, but Drenth says this corresponds more to ENFJ.

Unhealthy Levels

7: Fearing failure and humiliation, they can be exploitative and opportunistic, covetous of the success of others, and willing to do “whatever it takes” to preserve the illusion of their superiority.

8: Devious and deceptive so that their mistakes and wrongdoings will not be exposed. Untrustworthy, maliciously betraying or sabotaging people to triumph over them. Delusionally jealous of others.

9: Become vindictive, attempting to ruin others’ happiness. Relentless, obsessive about destroying whatever reminds them of their own shortcomings and failures. Psychopathic, murder. Generally corresponds to the Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

 

[Alias]

I wrote about him being ENTJ in the Last Movie You Watched thread, but I came up with now ESTP. He's driven by his bloodlust, and has no grip on his emotions, only faking them to get what he wants (sex and murder). But ESFP does seem to make sense.

 

[Inquisitor]

I wrote about him being ENTJ in the Last Movie You Watched thread, but I came up with now ESTP. He's driven by his bloodlust, and has no grip on his emotions, only faking them to get what he wants (sex and murder). But ESFP does seem to make sense.

Yeah, ESTP was another thought I had. I can't make up my mind about that. Because he's so pathological, it's hard to tell for me if he was born a psychopath (likely) or if he's actually not psychopathic and another type just in the grip of his inferior function. I read in the book that he apparently raped or murdered his maid when he was 14, so that would be a strong clue as to psychopathy. Then again, maybe psychopathy is not related to type, and it's simply a genetic defect.

Psychopathic Types
ASPD
MBTI Type Most Likely To Be a Psychopath

 

[paradoxparadigm7]

Then again, maybe psychopathy is not related to type, and it's simply a genetic defect.

When you compare a Jeffrey Dahmer to John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy, they all have strikingly different personalities that I doubt psychopathy is directly related to type. (Apologies for just taking one example but this is my initial thoughts). I would suppose there might be certain MBTI types more susceptible to disorders but genetics, environment and opportunity all would need to converge to get someone way off the bell curve in many disorders.

 

[Inquisitor]

When you compare a Jeffrey Dahmer to John Wayne Gacy or Ted Bundy, they all have strikingly different personalities that I doubt psychopathy is directly related to type. (Apologies for just taking one example but this is my initial thoughts). I would suppose there might be certain MBTI types more susceptible to disorders but genetics, environment and opportunity all would need to converge to get someone way off the bell curve in many disorders.

You may be right. Seems that ESTPs are more susceptible to Anti-Social Personality Disorder which as I understand it is the gateway to psychopathy. It's hard to see beyond the psychopathy into Bateman's underlying type...

 

[Yellow]

I can get behind ESTP, but not ESFP. But not for any well thought-out reason. I just think an ESFP who's already killing people like that would come up with more random, bizarre things to do to the people before and after he kills them.

I will take this moment to once again reiterate that real-life psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial PD bears very little resemblance to how it's portrayed in movies or on TV.

 

[Inquisitor]

I can get behind ESTP, but not ESFP. But not for any well thought-out reason. I just think an ESFP who's already killing people like that would come up with more random, bizarre things to do to the people before and after he kills them.

I will take this moment to once again reiterate that real-life psychopathy/sociopathy/antisocial PD bears very little resemblance to how it's portrayed in movies or on TV.

Ok. I defer to your expertise. How is Bateman different from a real-life wack-job? What doesn't fit?

 

[Yellow]

Ok. I defer to your expertise. How is Bateman different from a real-life wack-job? What doesn't fit?

First, people with antisocial personality disorder have average to below-average IQs. They tell a lot of lies and don't bother to keep track of them. They are generally very bad at hiding their behavior over weeks and months, and they don't tend to have that kind of attention span to begin with.

Even famous psychopaths like Ted Bundy, who had about an average IQ, entrapped himself by telling conflicting lies less than 20 minutes apart during police interrogation. He at least, had significant manipulative skills.

Most don't even have that. They are usually socially awkward, chaotic, generally shady, reckless, and have huge impulse control issues, and it doesn't take long for well-adjusted people to write them off as "worthless".

What he has in common with real-life psychopaths is a general assholishness (a contempt for the feelings and rights of others), a lack of remorse, and an over-inflated sense of self-importance.

 

[dark+matters]

First, people with antisocial personality disorder have average to below-average IQs. They tell a lot of lies and don't bother to keep track of them. They are generally very bad at hiding their behavior over weeks and months, and they don't tend to have that kind of attention span to begin with.

Even famous psychopaths like Ted Bundy, who had about an average IQ, entrapped himself by telling conflicting lies less than 20 minutes apart during police interrogation. He at least, had significant manipulative skills.

Most don't even have that. They are usually socially awkward, chaotic, generally shady, reckless, and have huge impulse control issues, and it doesn't take long for well-adjusted people to write them off as "worthless".

What he has in common with real-life psychopaths is a general assholishness (a contempt for the feelings and rights of others), a lack of remorse, and an over-inflated sense of self-importance.

I think this explains why the internet is the way it is sometimes...

 

[Brontosaurie]

what about INTJ with a serious madafaking inferior pull? he be schemin. he be havin that bluntly directive manner and that inner stream piecing together all his stupid indulgences into some coherent and quite aesthetically pleasing narrative. but i can see ESTP too. i don't think he's a character that is about type that much.

 

[Yellow]

I think this explains why the internet is the way it is sometimes...

Funny you should mention that.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...rolls-are-narcissists-psychopaths-and-sadists

It's a pop-science magazine slightly sensationalizing the results, but the study's methods and data were pretty solid.

 

[Inquisitor]

First, people with antisocial personality disorder have average to below-average IQs. They tell a lot of lies and don't bother to keep track of them. They are generally very bad at hiding their behavior over weeks and months, and they don't tend to have that kind of attention span to begin with.

Even famous psychopaths like Ted Bundy, who had about an average IQ, entrapped himself by telling conflicting lies less than 20 minutes apart during police interrogation. He at least, had significant manipulative skills.

Most don't even have that. They are usually socially awkward, chaotic, generally shady, reckless, and have huge impulse control issues, and it doesn't take long for well-adjusted people to write them off as "worthless".

What he has in common with real-life psychopaths is a general assholishness (a contempt for the feelings and rights of others), a lack of remorse, and an over-inflated sense of self-importance.

Interesting. Is it possible to be a psychopath w/o ASPD?

The Sociopath Next Door: Martha Stout: 9780767915823: Amazon.com: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5106V842oaL.@@AMEPARAM@@5106V842oaL

 

[Yellow]

Interesting. Is it possible to be a psychopath w/o ASPD?

The Sociopath Next Door: Martha Stout: 9780767915823: Amazon.com: Books

psychopath and sociopath are outdated diagnoses. It was replaced quite some time ago by Antisocial Personality Disorder. Now, it is only used in movies and pop culture, and colloquially in the psych world to describe a set of traits that form part of ASPD.

 

[Inquisitor]

psychopath and sociopath are outdated diagnoses. It was replaced quite some time ago by Antisocial Personality Disorder. Now, it is only used in movies and pop culture, and colloquially in the psych world to describe a set of traits that form part of ASPD.

Never knew that. So you're saying the image of the ruthless, power-hungry, charming corporate ceo is implausible in the real world?

Is it wrong that I want to be that? I can haz?

 

[Yellow]

Never knew that. So you're saying the image of the ruthless, power-hungry, charming corporate ceo is implausible in the real world?

Is it wrong that I want to be that? I can haz?

It's completely plausible, but it's not a mental disorder. It's just being a talented, charismatic self-entitled poopy head.

You cannot haz if you're an INTP, sorry. I think you normally need to be an ExxJ to pull that crap.

 

[Inquisitor]

It's completely plausible, but it's not a mental disorder. It's just being a talented, charismatic self-entitled poopy head.

You cannot haz if you're an INTP, sorry. I think you normally need to be an ExxJ to pull that crap.

I meant *psychopathic in front of that description, but I guess you answered it anyway.

 

[Reluctantly]

Didn't he have some kind of weird wanting to fit in and succeed thing going on? Like enneagram 3 or something. But at the same time felt insecure, like he had no identity separate from the people he was trying to fit in with? I don't know about type, never thought about it, but that's all I remembered about the movie. Sounds like a Jungian problem of extreme extroversion - almost complete lack of a self-identity or self-awareness.

*with little thought about it I want to say tritype 369.

 

[ENTP lurker]

Extrovert from Se-Ni axis. Lots of Se in that movie.

He is so messed up it is hard to decipher. I would say not an ENTJ.

 

[Alias]

I just found this interesting theory that most of Bateman's killings happened, but a lot of it was hallucination. That's why in the scene 'Cat Lover', the ATM said Feed Me a Dead Cat. ATM's don't do that. Which means he also didn't shoot the old lady, or at least the old lady didn't know that he was trying to kill the cat. Just found it interesting.

 

[Sinny91]

Didn't he have some kind of weird wanting to fit in and succeed thing going on? Like enneagram 3 or something. But at the same time felt insecure, like he had no identity separate from the people he was trying to fit in with? I don't know about type, never thought about it, but that's all I remembered about the movie. Sounds like a Jungian problem of extreme extroversion - almost complete lack of a self-identity or self-awareness.

*with little thought about it I want to say tritype 369.

Individuation..

 

[Inquisitor]

I just found this interesting theory that most of Bateman's killings happened, but a lot of it was hallucination. That's why in the scene 'Cat Lover', the ATM said Feed Me a Dead Cat. ATM's don't do that. Which means he also didn't shoot the old lady, or at least the old lady didn't know that he was trying to kill the cat. Just found it interesting.

Yeah some of it was hallucination, but like you said, most of it wasn't. I think the point was to show that because no one actually cares about anyone but themselves, they never notice if one of their number goes missing or becomes a homicidal maniac.

 

[scorpiomover]

I've only seen the movie. But the image stuck with me. He's clearly an introvert. Even when sitting with his friends, he doesn't really engage with them. He's always withdrawn, removed from what's going on, like he's in his own world, and only pretends to be friendly because it suits his needs.

I agree that he displays sensor characteristics. He's obsessed with Huey Lewis and the News. But there is a certain idealism about the way that he talks about them.

He doesn't show a desire to achieve, really. Even when he plans to kill those prostitutes, it's more of an in-the-moment thing. There's a clear lack of deliberate choice in his actions, and a laid-back-ness, like he's an IxxP.

I'll have more to say later when I've given it more thought.

 

[Alias]

I just watched it again on Friday (a friend wanted to see it), and I'm kind of leaning towards ESTP instead of ESFP. ISTP is another possibility, but it's out there.

 

[ZenRaiden]

I thought that all of the killings were just his violent fantasies... but it might not be like that I dont know. Anyway he seems to have some sort of internal monologue, but it doesnt really illuminate the viewer as to why he is doing what he is doing. Nor do we really know why he feels the way he does or acts the way he does. I dont really know what type he is. On one hand he spends lot of time doing extrovert things on the other hand as scorpio mentioned he seems to be completely removed from the world to the point of eccentric behaviour not to mention the scene where he says https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ks9MJZm1Lk and over all he seems manipulative as well.

 

[Massiv0r]

ESTJ, he has the facial traits of one.