American culture for INTPs, should I move there?

[Ink]

I currently live in sweden but my dad is american and thus I have american citizenship. I'm quite fed up of our culture and wonder how american culture would benefit an INTP?

 

[skip]

It's a huge country and you can pick almost any kind of community that you want to live in. What kind of surroundings are you looking for?

 

[Ink]

Confident friendly people, hard to put what I'm looking for into words though

 

[snafupants]

I currently live in sweden but my dad is american and thus I have american citizenship. I'm quite fed up of our culture and wonder how american culture would benefit an INTP?

Well, what specifically are you fed up with apropos Swedish culture?

 

[mu is mu]

I suppose that would depend on things like your English, age, gender, income, career interests, etc. But I live in America and am convinced that this is a great country for INTPs to live in. This country is fairly individualistic, meaning that INTPs are free to do pretty much whatever they want. And as skip pointed out, this country is extremely diverse--oftentimes the states themselves have huge diversity--so there's basically a place for everyone.

 

[TriflinThomas]

There are too many idiots here for my liking... I would wait until the election cuz the crazies are out en masse.

 

[Architect]

California

 

[Kuu]

Stay in Sweden. If I was given the choice of US vs Sweden, I wouldn't even think about it.

California, or big cities like New York or Chicago might work, though... still the bad overshadows the good in my opinion.

 

[Deleted member 1424]

Fuck no!

Do you have any idea what I'd give for a mere chance at Swedish citizenship!?

If you value intelligence, sanity, and your skin; stay out of the states.

 

[skip]

If you're keen on the desert, you can live in parts of Arizona fairly cheaply and minimally. They are generally more tolerant than most of eccentrics and others who just want to do their own thing. Several universities keep the major populated areas from being total write-offs.

 

[Dapper Dan]

Bleh, everyone idolizes the big cities for some reason. I personally prefer smaller cities.

Really though, just make sure you end up someplace with decent internet.

 

[Ink]

Swedes in general are a very shallow and insecure people (http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=28809&st=0), I'm just fed up of having to put on a mask just when I want to buy something from a store... If you feel good about yourself there's often people who will try to put you down, the only defence I've developed is the raise eye brows and look neutral facial expression (haha). Swedish culture is all about maintaining the status quo, and while there's good parts of the culture as well I just feel better the times I've been in the US.

I also have a pretty face which makes every fucking person want say hi to me in the summer (people don't talk to eachother during winter) and expecting me to be this cheerful guy which I'm often not.

 

[pjoa09]

Swedes in general are a very shallow and insecure people (http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=28809&st=0), I'm just fed up of having to put on a mask just when I want to buy something from a store... If you feel good about yourself there's often people who will try to put you down, the only defence I've developed is the raise eye brows and look neutral facial expression (haha). Swedish culture is all about maintaining the status quo, and while there's good parts of the culture as well I just feel better the times I've been in the US.

I also have a pretty face which makes every fucking person want say hi to me in the summer (people don't talk to eachother during winter) and expecting me to be this cheerful guy which I'm often not.

You are simply describing human nature. I don't really know where are you trying to shoot.

Is this the Swedish man problems?

 

[EditorOne]

I think the situations you describe are pretty universal and I'm not sure changing countries is going to solve things.

 

[Ink]

Well I've been to the US plenty of times and I enjoy the people there more. You aren't as afraid to offend people, in general... You read the thread I linked to as well? It's not that I'm not managing to live a life here I just think the US would fit me better.

 

[EditorOne]

Yes. Presumably you wouldn't be any worse off.

 

[Kuu]

Swedes in general are a very shallow and insecure people

And "Americans" aren't?

I'm just fed up of having to put on a mask just when I want to buy something from a store... If you feel good about yourself there's often people who will try to put you down, the only defence I've developed is the raise eye brows and look neutral facial expression (haha).

Well why don't you drop the mask? I'm certain there's a good amount of people there that think the same and hate the status quo, but never find out about each other, keeping it inside in an endless cycle of frustration.

I also have a pretty face which makes every fucking person want say hi to me in the summer (people don't talk to eachother during winter) and expecting me to be this cheerful guy which I'm often not.

Sweden in my experience has so much higher tolerance of introversion than the US... seems to me this issue would just become worse there...

 

[Ink]

And "Americans" aren't?

Not as much.

Well why don't you drop the mask? I'm certain there's a good amount of people there that think the same and hate the status quo, but never find out about each other, keeping it inside in an endless cycle of frustration.

Not as many as you'd think, there are some of course.

Sweden in my experience has so much higher tolerance of introversion than the US... seems to me this issue would just become worse there...

I rather talk to strong true extroverts than extroverts trying to put on an introvert mask. It's the fakeness I'm tired of.

 

[skip]

Swedes in general are a very shallow and insecure people (http://www.thelocal.se/discuss/index.php?showtopic=28809&st=0), I'm just fed up of having to put on a mask just when I want to buy something from a store... If you feel good about yourself there's often people who will try to put you down, the only defence I've developed is the raise eye brows and look neutral facial expression (haha). Swedish culture is all about maintaining the status quo, and while there's good parts of the culture as well I just feel better the times I've been in the US.

You'll want to stay away from southern California, which is much of the same. There are appropriate payoffs but if that kind of attitude is what you're trying to get away from you won't want to live there.

 

[Ink]

Hmm, so what kind of culture do you guys personally think is ideal?

 

[skip]

Well, southern California is, for me. I grew up in it so handling the attitude and status-seekers is second-nature to me. Everything else about it suits me perfectly (although I could do without the constant threat of "the big one" quake).

Have you been to this site yet? Find Your Spot.

 

[Ink]

Well, southern California is, for me. I grew up in it so handling the attitude and status-seekers is second-nature to me. Everything else about it suits me perfectly (although I could do without the constant threat of "the big one" quake).

Have you been to this site yet? Find Your Spot.

Nashua, New Hampshire is where I'm supposed to live. I'm still not convinced your culture is the same as mine though, what do you base that off? I've seen lots of media from there and it doesn't strike me as similar at all tbh...

 

[TriflinThomas]

You'll want to stay away from southern California, which is much of the same. There are appropriate payoffs but if that kind of attitude is what you're trying to get away from you won't want to live there.

Agreed (coming from someone who lives there). Northern California is better in terms of scenery and general feel of the place.

 

[skip]

Nashua, New Hampshire is where I'm supposed to live. I'm still not convinced your culture is the same as mine though, what do you base that off? I've seen lots of media from there and it doesn't strike me as similar at all tbh...

I didn't say the cultures are the same. There are similarities between what you described and southern California, so much so that if what you described is what you're trying to get away from, you would not be happy in southern California. The similarities are:

- very shallow and insecure people
- having to put on a mask just when I want to buy something from a store
- there are often people who will try to put you down when you feel good about yourself
- culture is all about maintaining the status quo

Southern California is not a good fit for most people. You have to know how to navigate a social hierarchy with a lot of subtleties and often vicious penalties. You have to have money and a very thick skin. It's unlike any place else on the planet (except for parts of Mumbai but that's another thread). Any transplant will tell you how difficult it is to acclimate there - especially the ones who later moved on to someplace else. Many come, few succeed.

Is there someplace in soCal you were looking into relocating to?

 

[Ink]

I didn't say the cultures are the same. There are similarities between what you described and southern California, so much so that if what you described is what you're trying to get away from, you would not be happy in southern California. The similarities are:

- very shallow and insecure people
- having to put on a mask just when I want to buy something from a store
- there are often people who will try to put you down when you feel good about yourself
- culture is all about maintaining the status quo

Southern California is not a good fit for most people. You have to know how to navigate a social hierarchy with a lot of subtleties and often vicious penalties. You have to have money and a very thick skin. It's unlike any place else on the planet (except for parts of Mumbai but that's another thread). Any transplant will tell you how difficult it is to acclimate there - especially the ones who later moved on to someplace else. Many come, few succeed.

I see, so how and why do you live there?

 

[~~~]

I think the sun alone makes a difference. Your father's influence is probably greater than you might consciously think. Why not try it out? Worst case scenario is that you go back to Sweden. (Although economically speaking: southern Europe will not turn around for a while, Germany will look more to the East, Sweden will follow and both the US and the Euro zone need to fix their monetary situation which in the US probably will not happen until at least 2013.)

 

[Ink]

I think the sun alone makes a difference. Your father's influence is probably greater than you might consciously think.

Sorry, lost track here... what exactly do you mean?

 

[Jedi]

Well my plan to move to Sweden is out the window. A location change may be good but unless you're going from rural area to a big city or vice versa, it will probably be much the same.

 

[skip]

I see, so how and why do you live there?

That's a long list and pretty individualistic. I'm not sure it'll be helpful to you in your search but here goes, in no particular order:

Its rhythm, which is hard to describe. It's a unique blend of laid-back plus drive. I've never found anything like it anywhere else in the world and I miss it when I'm not here. It suits me and I feel out of sync to varying degrees anywhere else, even places I've very much enjoyed living.

The multinationality. There's hardly a country or culture on the planet that isn't represented in one way or another: food, music, film, art, dance, clothing, culture. We are connected to everyone, everywhere.

High standard of living, businesses & services: professional people here are generally at the top of their game. You don't last long if you're not.

Outdoors activities: skiing, hiking, riding, cycling, camping, hunting, kayaking, boating, scuba, surfing - the list and opportunities are endless. You can snow ski in the mountains in the morning and be sunbathing on an island beach by the afternoon.

World-class performing arts, museums, universities, restaurants, amusement parks, etc. Growing up here as an INTP was a dream. I could explore anything that sparked my interest because the resources are here to do so.

Touring groups, whether it's an ALW musical or a museum exhibit or a live Bollywood performance, never fail to stop here. They give us their best performances.

The fitness culture. No one does it like we do.

We set the bar so very high on so many things. My own internal "bars" are also effortlessly set high as a result and I appreciate that, especially when I'm outside of soCal.

Our history, especially Hollywood, but also the Spanish missions, Chumash Indians, art deco architecture, evolution of the surf/beach culture, etc.

Disneyland/annual passholder culture.

The weather and beaches, beach conservation & ecology.

We have the most beautiful people in the world, celebrites to athletes to models, from all over the world. It's like opening your bedroom door and walking out into an exquisite garden that's painstakingly maintained from every dewey petal to the gentle, sandy curve of every walking path. Every. single. day.

I was born next to the Pacific ocean, I grew up on its beaches and feel bonded to it. I can't explain it, really, that's just the way it is.

I never have to explain where I'm from, when I'm away. Everyone on the planet knows L.A.

We love our cars. I love my car.

I was going to list other specific places I like around southern California but I have to stop at some point... no matter where I live I'll always be an Angeleno. For me, this is paradise. It is not for everybody.

 

[pjoa09]

Well I've been to the US plenty of times and I enjoy the people there more. You aren't as afraid to offend people, in general... You read the thread I linked to as well? It's not that I'm not managing to live a life here I just think the US would fit me better.

It was a thread of someone ranting about something that he thinks only exists in Sweden when it is inherently the way societies work.

You haven't seen real status obsession yet.

Not to sound naive, but doesn't the cold make everyone nicely introverted? I mean, Finland is home of great rally drivers and Linus Torvalds himself. The Swedes should have something similar somewhere in their woods?

But you do have a point, maybe I should go to the US too. At least, they have a decent place for unstructured intellectual interests.

 

[Suraj]

I rather talk to strong true extroverts than extroverts trying to put on an introvert mask. It's the fakeness I'm tired of.

I find more and more irksome the extroverted viewpoint dominant in American culture. There are many people here trying so desperately to reach this ideal that the true introverts are either away from the public eye where you'll never meet them or outside with their extrovert "masks" on - either way, you never really get to know them.

It's truly stifling to an individual's potential when society keeps telling them that they're weak or shy for being introverted.

 

[Teohrn]

Living in Scandinavia myself, I can agree to some of Ink's points, mainly that Scandinavians are generally quite traditionalistic, and in my opinion too conventional; life is basically as plain as possible, it is all about growing up, getting an education, getting a job, buy stuff, raise family, etc. That's very nice and all, but I want a little more in life than just that.

America is much more about individuality and variety. I do understand that what I previously said about Scandinavia holds true for the vast majority of the world, the US included, howbeit, in the US there are far more opportunities and far more to choose from; which attracts me. Scandinavian is far more safe in terms of everything, however, I don't want safe if it means mediocrity as well. It is essentially the far greater diversity of the US, and therefore the ability to choose that attracts me.

Unlike Ink I have no personal experience of what the US is like. Although this doesn't mean I have no clue.

Does this fit with your own opinion in any way, @Ink?

 

[Affinity]

I would probably recommend the Pacific Northwest (Oregon, Washington, or even British Columbia, Canada) and NorCal as well. I definitely would not recommend Utah, Colorado, Arizona, Florida, or New York (though it's a badass place to visit, living there would prob suck).

 

[~~~]

Sorry, lost track here... what exactly do you mean?

Read up on cognitive evolutionary psychology.

 

[NinjaSurfer]

grass is always greener on the other side; sometimes change or novelty is what we really seek;

I've seen at least a couple people mention Southern California; the weather here is rather perfect so you can always retreat into nature; big cities like Los Angeles have much to offer for anyone; almost all cultures are represented and traffic is the only downside I can think of; you can probably find a Meetup.com group for anything you're interested to do;

so while a lot of people here (in the States, and in Los Angeles/So Cal) are superficially stuck-up like you generalize most Swedes, the diversity here might be better suited for your interests; travelling and testing out different cultures around the world is never a bad option though; you should jump at the opportunity to live somewhere else if you have it; it doesn't have to be permanent, although Los Angeles is only the 2nd place I lived and I've been here for the last 10 years and it might be about time I try somewhere new; moving to another country is kind of scary for me though so I really admire anyone who takes that shot

 

[Ink]

Read up on cognitive evolutionary psychology.

First please explain how my father and the sun is related!

 

[Lot]

Arizona is an alright place for me and anyone who wants to bug-out if shit hit the fan.
Pro:
The desert is beautiful.
There is a nice mix of Mexican and American culture.
You don't need a permit to conceal carry (pro or con depending on who ya are)
Most people keep to them selves.
The weather is nice 8-9 months out of the year.
There are plenty of small towns you can move to.
Community colleges, trade schools, and universities all over the place.
Phoenix has an easy to navigate grid system.
Still legal to home school your kids.
A smile goes a long way.

Con:
The drivers suck.
There is no effective public transportation.
There is a focus of organized crime.
It's hard to find a job, because of an over saturated market.
Like in all of America, we have a lot of extroverts.
Meth and heroin epidemic.
Poor quality grade schools.
Living here it hard to not get drug into the illegal immigrant debate.


In the end. You can be happy anywhere you live. You just need to have the right attitude.

 

[~~~]

[JUSTIF][/JUSTIF]

First please explain how my father and the sun is related!

They are related to the reasons for why you might consider moving to the States.

 

[Ink]

[JUSTIF][/JUSTIF]
They are related to the reasons for why you might consider moving to the States.

elaborate

 

[m.love]

Oh Why??

I'm not from Sweden. But I'm a foreigner to the States, so may I explain my impression relative to Europe (eastern to be 'exact').

People are much friendlier in the States. Even in large cities, but especially in small towns (middle of the country). They will smile and say hello. You will likely be perceived as very mean/rude one in their eyes. If the US culture had a personality, it would be very Extroverted and very Sensor-like.There are HUGE exceptions, such as the wonderful people on this forum that are from the States, but it is far from normal. So, be careful, grass is greener on the other side....

 

[Ink]

Living in Scandinavia myself, I can agree to some of Ink's points, mainly that Scandinavians are generally quite traditionalistic, and in my opinion too conventional; life is basically as plain as possible, it is all about growing up, getting an education, getting a job, buy stuff, raise family, etc. That's very nice and all, but I want a little more in life than just that.

America is much more about individuality and variety. I do understand that what I previously said about Scandinavia holds true for the vast majority of the world, the US included, howbeit, in the US there are far more opportunities and far more to choose from; which attracts me. Scandinavian is far more safe in terms of everything, however, I don't want safe if it means mediocrity as well. It is essentially the far greater diversity of the US, and therefore the ability to choose that attracts me.

Unlike Ink I have no personal experience of what the US is like. Although this doesn't mean I have no clue.

Does this fit with your own opinion in any way, @Ink?

Yes. Figuring what I personally want in life is not something to do overnight though...

 

[toastedtruth]

American economy is bad. Jobs are bad. Britain is just the same. I visit Florida regularly and I know what it is like out there. TBH, I would dream of living in Sweden.

 

[intpz]

Funny thread.

I wanted to move there quite a lot not long ago. Considering their laws and economy, though, I don't anymore.

And I definitely didn't want to move there for the people. Right now my choice would be Canada.

 

[Marcher]

Americans as a whole seem rather extroverted and "in your face". I couldn't handle that, I find England difficult enough as it is.