Am I the only selfish asshole on this planet?

[Toad]

I don't really care about anybody. I only pretend to care about people because they benefit me in some way. All my actions are selfish. I help people because I want them to like me. I want to look "good". I have evil thoughts that run through my mind all the time. I am never happy for anyone. If someone is better than me, I secretly loath them.

I have decided that because I am like this, other people must be too. I question everyone's motive. No one can possibly help "out of the goodness of their heart". Am I the only one who feels bad about this?

Please tell me I'm wrong.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

It's definitely just you.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

I suppose it's a very INTP thing to be acutely aware of one's own dark potential and through it the hidden darkness within the hearts and minds of all those around us, perhaps this inner clarity is what drives us to act in such contrast to our cold, dark inner selves.

Better the devil you know than the devil you don't?
(being very metaphorical)

Or perhaps it's a matter of values, I've been called an angel before while merely taking an extra five minutes to help someone and my first thought was that it couldn't be further from the truth. Now my bias against theology aside, the very idea of being referenced with a symbol representing the highest of moral intent seemed absolutely perverse; but is that because I'm an immoral person or because I have a very extreme idea of what the highest of moral intent should be?

So Toad have you considered that your personal standards are simply so high that you merely seem selfish by your own outwardly commendable perspective? That perhaps you interpret your natural, instinctive, human self interest as being selfish by comparison to your beliefs regarding how being selfless involves an absolute absence of self interest?

 

[transformers]

you're not a bad person dude, a lot of people are selfish, probably most of the world is. that's just how people are, we do nothing unless we personally get something out of it. even charity workers need to 'see' the outcome of their efforts in order to continue doing their work, otherwise they feel like they're wasting their time. don't worry about it.

 

[Toad]

I don't think my standards are too high. I may be delusional to think that there is such a thing as "good" and "bad".

The way I am does not bother me much. It's the fact that everyone else may think like I do that inhibits me from trusting anyone. How can you accept help, knowing that the person is only doing it to benefit themselves in some way?

 

[shoeless]

of course you're not the only one.

just the only one with the stones to admit it.

 

[preilemus]

You're wrong.

I don't really care about anybody. I only pretend to care about people because they benefit me in some way. All my actions are selfish. I help people because I want them to like me. I want to look "good". I have evil thoughts that run through my mind all the time. I am never happy for anyone. If someone is better than me, I secretly loath them.

You need people to feel good about yourself. When someone doesn't need you to find their self-worth, it makes you angry. You should find a way to overcome this.

 

[Artifice Orisit]

How can you accept help, knowing that the person is only doing it to benefit themselves in some way?

Somehow you need to come to terms with the self orientated nature of the individual human and accept that this does not make them inherently untrustworthy, just as you are likewise self orientated and yet willing to honour the trust of others.... aren’t you?

If you can't trust yourself to be trustworthy then how can you trust others to be?

 

[transformers]

I don't think my standards are too high. I may be delusional to think that there is such a thing as "good" and "bad".

The way I am does not bother me much. It's the fact that everyone else may think like I do that inhibits me from trusting anyone. How can you accept help, knowing that the person is only doing it to benefit themselves in some way?

take solace in the fact that most people don't intend to be selfish, it is incidental. many simply want to help. if you take intentions into account at all and not just end results, you'll find it easier to trust and open up to people.

 

[Yellow]

I don't really care about anybody. I only pretend to care about people because they benefit me in some way. All my actions are selfish. I help people because I want them to like me. I want to look "good". I have evil thoughts that run through my mind all the time.

I can relate here. I've learned to fake nice to get along with others or to comfort the more sensitive sorts. Of course when patiently listening, I'm secretly wishing they'd stop blubbering and move on.

I am never happy for anyone. If someone is better than me, I secretly loath them.

I cannot relate with this one. I love people who are equal to or better than me in any situation. It means they won't be needing me or depending upon me. It guarantees that any interaction/relationship will be voluntary and enjoyable.

I have decided that because I am like this, other people must be too. I question everyone's motive. No one can possibly help "out of the goodness of their heart".

You don't need to suspect everyone. There are lots of people out there who love to be nice, helpful, and caring. Some people even define themselves by how well they treat others. Lots of people have 'good hearts'.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

In all seriousness (i.e. unlike my last post) I think compassion is a valid and real motivation. Maybe some of you guys don't care about many other people but I do think I fundamentally care about a lot of people I know.

 

[Ran]

Does it matter if your intentions are selfish? You helped someone and made their life easier. In return s/he likes you better and might return the favor at a later date. Both parties got what they wanted. There isn't a little gremlin out there that tallies that number of times you helped people and actually meant it vs. when you're just being selfish.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

I don't really care about anybody.

same. i hate people.

I only pretend to care about people

same.

because they benefit me in some way.

this is where we differ. i am nice, and "caring" to other people, because i couldnt respect myself if i treated others like shit. pretty much all humans are selfish garbage that would step on one another to just seem better than the other person, blatantly disregard someone else and their feelings for a small benefit. this is why i hate them. if i was the same as them i wouldnt be able to respect myself, so i pretend to care, and i stick my neck out everytime, and im so used to getting my head cutoff that it doesnt really bother me anymore.

All my actions are selfish.

i could technically say the same thing.

I help people because I want them to like me.

i used to be like that.

I want to look "good". I have evil thoughts that run through my mind all the time. I am never happy for anyone.

i am the same.

If someone is better than me, I secretly loath them.

there is no such thing as being "better" than another person, and i loath no one.

"out of the goodness of their heart".

that hardly exists anymore.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

hardly exists anymore? so, people were compassionate in the past and now they aren't?

I think you guys are honestly pretty misinformed on human nature. People are frequently selfish and vile. But they are also frequently compassionate. How can that be missed?

 

[RubberDucky451]

The majority of people are selfish but they will never confess to this. If everyone is self seeking, then important things like love are certainty peripheral.

If i assume man is evil I'm rarely surprised, even blind to his intentions.

 

[Toad]

hardly exists anymore? so, people were compassionate in the past and now they aren't?

I think you guys are honestly pretty misinformed on human nature. People are frequently selfish and vile. But they are also frequently compassionate. How can that be missed?

You're a Christian right? Don't Christians believe that all of mankind is born with with sin in their hearts?

I believe this "Christian" idea arose from people understanding how truly selfish the human heart is. Humans are selfish by nature. Some realize this (like us) and some don't.

 

[Grove]

Assuming that the intentions of others is inherently selfish is not my default position, in fact more often than not I am surprised when I finally figure out what someone is up to. (Perhaps surprised is the wrong word here, more like "wow, I didn't realize you were that self serving, now I know how to interact with you appropriately...). My problem is that I'm good at spotting when I am acting in a self-serving manner (or am tempted to), which stops me from going ahead with it. It is hard for me to remember that not everyone is (A) as self aware as I am, and (B) may be more willing to throw integrity out the window. There are always exceptions, of course, but sometimes I think I'm missing out by not letting myself "take advantage" of situations, or more destructively, people.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

hardly exists anymore? so, people were compassionate in the past and now they aren't?

I think you guys are honestly pretty misinformed on human nature. People are frequently selfish and vile. But they are also frequently compassionate. How can that be missed?

i just said the word "anymore" for the hell of it, i have been having a hard time paying complete attention lately because i am suffering of the "mourning after" and i have rather low blood pressure at the moment.

i just me hardly exist at all.

"I think you guys are honestly pretty misinformed on human nature"
how sure are you that we are wrong, and you are right?
you didnt really give much reasoning to back up that statement.. not a very convincing argument.
sure, i think people are capable of love, but in general, most are just so full of shit, or themselves (often both), or just to inconsiderate of others that i cant stand them.

 

[Scourgexlvii]

I'd have to admit to being selfish most of the time. If I know of someone by name, or at least face, it's harder to, but still, I sometimes think of how the world would be better without the annoying people, not bothering to think in their perspective.

And why should I... Their perspective is annoying too...

 

[Murphy1d]

Richard Dawkins basically notes in his book The Selfish Gene that "all human actions are selfish," but I doubt he was the first to believe this.

If you consider that every action you take is to satisfy some kind of need (food, relationships, ego) then you do have consider that all the decisions you make are to benefit you in some way.

So, having said this, to consider it "wrong" to be selfish is (IMO) going against nature. BUT, I do think most people instinctively calculate all the outcomes to their selfishness and find the best way to achieve the most self-beneficial results with the least action.

In otherwords, you can be a jerk and take the parking spot away from the person waiting patiently on it, but do you make out better by having them curse at you/ honk their horn/ draw "negative" attention to you (and other people's looks) or do you make out better with a wave of "thank you" from the person while you quietly spin around the lot one more time?

Depends on the person, I guess.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

You're a Christian right? Don't Christians believe that all of mankind is born with with sin in their hearts?

Yes. We believe that human nature is fundamentally good, but has been corrupted. Thus humans naturally have both good and evil tendencies. Which makes sense, considering the empirical reality of humans naturally having both good and evil tendencies. That empirical reality is what I was referring to in my last post.

 

[Zero]

I like some people, but usually because they benefit me in some way. That's not necessarily to say they buy me lunch. I like having company every once in a while. So maybe it is just you.

In general I don't like people as a whole. They're a pain to deal with.

Everyone has evil thoughts. If by which you mean thinking of ways you want a person to suffer, I'm pretty sure almost everyone has that.

I don't feel like people are better than me, in general. I might be somewhat jealous if they're better than me at something in particular. Even then, I'm not sure I really care. I don't want to be good at everything, even at the things I strive for. It's kind of nice to have people who only do one thing really well, because they provide a source of (amuse) education in that area.

What is "The goodness of heart"? It's pity or compassion. Pity is straight forward, but compassion is it's mixed up freak child. I think most people do something because they have a reason to and it's probably usually for their own benefit.

I think you worrying about proves you can't be all that bad.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

I think you worrying about proves you can't be all that bad.

Missing noun? I am not sure what you mean. I'm also not sure if this is the rhetorical you or if you're talking to me, or someone else.

 

[Polaris]

Imagine something really bad happened to someone close to you, i.e. family, girlfriend, etc. How would you feel? Would you be more upset about losing them because you need them in your life, or would you be upset because the person was suffering? Or both, which is probably the case for many people?

I do not think you are careless or bad. You are just young and it is common to be more concerned with oneself at that time, especially if you are going through difficulties. That is just you trying to protect your sanity.

Zero has a very good point.

 

[Toad]

I have never felt bad because someone else was suffering.


I just realized something. The reason I hate letting people help me is because it gives them credit for my achievements. If I let someone support me, it's not gratifying because I didn't do it myself.

God, I'm so selfish I'm even unwilling to give away my credit. I am a monster.

 

[echoplex]

The world "selfish" doesn't say much. Everyone is selfish. There are different kinds of selfishness. You could say, at least subjectively, that there is good selfishness and bad selfishness. The "good" kind would be that which also benefits others around you. The added benefit being that it also strengthens your relationships with others, which in turn is likely to help you in various other ways. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that an "effectively" selfish person is one who realizes how their connections with others benefit them, and thus reaches out to others. Someone who steps all over everyone is not really helping themselves as much as they might think. Simply put, you need the support of other humans to be happy (maybe not though, but it seems that way)

"Bad" selfishness would be the kind that creates enemies and destroys alliances. This can ultimately leave a person friendless and possibly in danger. If the idea of being selfish is the "self" then this would seem counterintuitive.

So yeah, it seems generally that caring for others is a big part of caring for yourself. I suppose hermits would disagree though, but I'm pretty sure they wouldn't want to be hated by others, just ignored.

I just realized something. The reason I hate letting people help me is because it gives them credit for my achievements. If I let someone support me, it's not gratifying because I didn't do it myself.

To me this just means you wanted to know whether or not you could figure it yourself. If someone helps you, you'll never know if you could've done it yourself. Wanting to be self-sufficient is not a bad thing imo, although it's hard to be totally self-sufficient.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Arrives the Provider of Clarity !!


Guys, be precise with your definitions. Being selfish doesn't mean just caring about yourself. It means caring about yourself to the exclusion of all others. So no, not everyone is selfish, and selfishness is always bad, because a selfish act is never intended to benefit others, only the self. If it were otherwise, the act would not be a selfish act.

 

[transformers]

toad you seem to be exaggerating your negative qualities. nobody is perfect, and you are certainly no monster. your responses in this thread alone prove that - real monsters never believe they've done anything wrong. they easily and heartlessly find reasons to justify the worst atrocities.

 

[echoplex]

Arrives the Provider of Clarity !!


Guys, be precise with your definitions. Being selfish doesn't mean just caring about yourself. It means caring about yourself to the exclusion of all others. So no, not everyone is selfish, and selfishness is always bad, because a selfish act is never intended to benefit others, only the self. If it were otherwise, the act would not be a selfish act.

Well, defining it as such would certainly make things simpler, now wouldn't it? But I'm not sure you're right. I've heard the word used many different ways. Perhaps "self-interest" would be a better way of describing what I was saying? I'm all for clarity.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

Yes. We believe that human nature is fundamentally good, but has been corrupted. Thus humans naturally have both good and evil tendencies. Which makes sense, considering the empirical reality of humans naturally having both good and evil tendencies. That empirical reality is what I was referring to in my last post.

easy there.
i am a christian, and i dont believe what you said.
i believe human nature is corrupt, born sinless, but will end up sinning because of selfishness.

 

[asdfasdfasdfsdf]

Imagine something really bad happened to someone close to you, i.e. family, girlfriend, etc. How would you feel? Would you be more upset about losing them because you need them in your life, or would you be upset because the person was suffering? Or both, which is probably the case for many people.

what if.. neither?

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Well, I'm going off of the OED.
And Merriam-Webster's is slightly looser in definition, but it's still closer to the OED's thing than how we were using it here.

Going off of the OP's general intention... it seems that selfishness is actually what we're talking about, rather than mere self-interest. That's just my impression though.

 

[Dormouse]

Everyone is selfish, but motivation is what determines whether your selfishness is detrimental or not.
What makes you happy? I honestly and truly enjoy helping people. Smiles are huge rewards, and really do brighten up my day. Most of the time.
Contrast that to me when I'm being a bitch, and the world totally revolves around vengeance. What makes me happy then? Material gain.

I believe being self-serving is a lot worse than selfish. Selfishness is completely natural and fuels everything we do. Even our compassion.

 

[Toad]

what if.. neither?

I actually feel neither too. I pretend to feel bad for the person just to look good.

 

[Polaris]

what if.. neither?

You could just be depressed? Sometimes you could be without knowing. A sign of depression is often a lack of responses/feeling. You could have had it for so long you would not be aware. I don't know, I'm only speaking from personal experience. I thought I was heartless for many years, as I had no empathy or feeling for others. Something changed this, I am not sure exactly what, but I was in a relationship that nearly broke me, and one day I suddenly started feeling compassion and love for other people. I was crying all the time, and had not cried since I was a child. It was like this massive waterfall of emotion. I realized I had been depressed for many years, and the trials of the relationship had released something. I was 37 at the time.

 

[AmitaF]

I don't really care about anybody. I only pretend to care about people because they benefit me in some way. All my actions are selfish. I help people because I want them to like me. I want to look "good". I have evil thoughts that run through my mind all the time. I am never happy for anyone. If someone is better than me, I secretly loath them.

I don't particularly "like" people, but I find them interesting, and no, I don't loath people who're better than me nor feel jealous or anything, I'm just indifferent.
and I don't know whether it's out of care or not, but I do offer my help a lot, even when it sort of bad for me, not because I want to look good or get anything in return, just help. and knowing nobody can be that good, specially not me, I thought about it for a long time, trying to find the motive behind what I do, I figured that I am too selfish actually, it appears I do it for my personal interest, and because I like knowing that I actually made a difference, so it's just for personal satisfaction and as a tool to gain knowledge and figure people out, and to think that I use people and their need for help in my observations, that's pretty messed up, but oh well, they get the help they need. and as for evil thoughts, I do have loads of them, everyone does, it's normal.

I have decided that because I am like this, other people must be too. I question everyone's motive. No one can possibly help "out of the goodness of their heart". Am I the only one who feels bad about this?

Please tell me I'm wrong.

I don't think my standards are too high. I may be delusional to think that there is such a thing as "good" and "bad".

The way I am does not bother me much. It's the fact that everyone else may think like I do that inhibits me from trusting anyone. How can you accept help, knowing that the person is only doing it to benefit themselves in some way?

you're probably right about people, but it does not necessarily mean that you can't trust them, isn't accepting help knowing that it's driven by some hidden motive better than accepting it blindly then having to deal with the consequences?
oh, and you're not the only one who feels bad about it.
though I do think, like most of us, you are too self aware, which is why you know that you're selfish and bold enough to admit it.

I don't feel like people are better than me, in general. I might be somewhat jealous if they're better than me at something in particular. Even then, I'm not sure I really care. I don't want to be good at everything, even at the things I strive for. It's kind of nice to have people who only do one thing really well, because they provide a source of (amuse) education in that area.

What is "The goodness of heart"? It's pity or compassion. Pity is straight forward, but compassion is it's mixed up freak child. I think most people do something because they have a reason to and it's probably usually for their own benefit.

I think you worrying about proves you can't be all that bad.

that's a very good point

I just realized something. The reason I hate letting people help me is because it gives them credit for my achievements. If I let someone support me, it's not gratifying because I didn't do it myself.

God, I'm so selfish I'm even unwilling to give away my credit. I am a monster.

isn't it maybe because of your pride that you don't let people help you? I don't accept help from people because I have serious pride issues..hmm

You could just be depressed? Sometimes you could be without knowing. A sign of depression is often a lack of responses/feeling. You could have had it for so long you would not be aware. I don't know, I'm only speaking from personal experience. I thought I was heartless for many years, as I had no empathy or feeling for others. Something changed this, I am not sure exactly what, but I was in a relationship that nearly broke me, and one day I suddenly started feeling compassion and love for other people. I was crying all the time, and had not cried since I was a child. It was like this massive waterfall of emotion. I realized I had been depressed for many years, and the trials of the relationship had released something. I was 37 at the time.

really? I thought it's indifference, you don't feel bad for others' sufferings 'cause you're indifferent, couldn't it be as simple as that? not everybody has deep reasons behind their attitude, or do they? I wonder

 

[Inappropriate Behavior]

Am I the only selfish asshole on this planet?

No, just the biggest.
jk!!

Everyone is selfish to some degree and everyone has someone who thinks they're an asshole. So you're just human Toad (sorry to break it to you).

 

[Kidege]

is that because I'm an immoral person or because I have a very extreme idea of what the highest of moral intent should be?

My experience says the 2nd.
But being aware of one's 'darker' side helps to keep it at bay.


@Nicholas:
I think we haven't met before, hello.

@Toad:

People do help out of the goodness of their hearts. But if hadn't seen it, consistently, for years, with one person, I wouldn't believe it. Heck, I kept poking and prodding to see if the goodness would stop and it hasn't... Then I kept poking and prodding to see if it was sillyness... and it wasn't. Now I'm only concerned it's theologically tied, but I'm moving towards accepting it as "as good as a human gets" and emulating the behaviour.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Hi Kidege!
Yeah, I'm new.

 

[warryer]

At least you are being truthful to yourself, Toad. That's probably more important than whether you are "good" or "bad."

It is not a crime to think of yourself as better than another. That's genetics and survival of the fittest for you. We just have this whole political correctness disease that we have to deal with now.

That said, I am the same way. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the people I meet are too.

Competition for you.

 

[Zero]

Nic- I was replying to the first post. If I was replying to you, I would've used your name.

Also, my post should say "You worrying about it...". But now I can't edit it.

 

[Nicholas A. A. E.]

Mmm, that's interesting. I hadn't considered before my two conflicting heuristics. Some times I consider un-addressed text has always referring to the previous post, other times always to the original post. I guess it depends on whether a conversation is going on or not.

Also your post is giving me déjà vu, for some reason. Have we have this misunderstanding before?

 

[Zero]

Nic- Maybe, but Deja Vu is caused by your brain sending two signals instead of one when taking in stimuli, so it could be that.

My first post in a thread almost always applies to the first post, especially if it's on the first page.

 

[nickgray]

I think that selfishness itself highly depends on the point of view. You can even say that we're all selfish - person A helps person B because if person A wouldn't help B he'd feel guilty/bad about it. A worries about B and constantly checks on him, in order to easy his feeling of worrying. And etc.

Everything depends on our point of view and what meaning we put into something. There is no "ultimate" view of X, everything is relative and it's important to remember that. I believe such a "philosophy" is called Nihilism. In the end, it's all meaningless we're all just a bunch of elementary particles.

 

[Oblivious]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with being selfish. One thing I feel people need to realise is that no one owes anyone anything, and must hence deal with each other with equal and mutual respect and understanding.

As pointed out by a few others above, all actions are selfish. I am speaking philosophically. Every action a human makes has a desire behind it, and this desire originates within ourselves. Hence helping another should not come at the expectation of a reward or compensation, not because of altruism, but because we should get what we want out of it whether this is our sense of justice or even just for the fun of it.

People who volunteer to help you and then turn around and ask for compensation or a say in how you should conduct yourself just do not understand this or are confidence tricksters plain and simple. If there is something you want, this must be communicated right from the beginning, otherwise it is deception.

 

[JUN]

Toad, you want to believe you're that way due to depression, but you're not. Seek treatment.

 

[cheese]

toad you seem to be exaggerating your negative qualities. nobody is perfect, and you are certainly no monster. your responses in this thread alone prove that - real monsters never believe they've done anything wrong. they easily and heartlessly find reasons to justify the worst atrocities.

Wouldn't real monsters have no need for justification? The ones who think they're not at fault are less easy to assign blame to, in my opinion (if one is working within a moral framework).

 

[chloé]

Do you actually believe you're a "monster"? If you feel bad about your selfish qualities, then you're probably actually a good person at your core. I agree with the thinking that all humans are inherently selfish: we have it built into us that helping others makes us feel good in some way. I think what you're talking about is whether people are intentionally selfish. Most people don't recognize their built-in selfish qualities, and view selfishness as a bad thing. Some of us do recognize our selfishness, and what we subsequently choose to do with that understanding is where "good" and "bad" come into play.

That's my view. I'm a lot like you, and I'm comfortable with it. Not being bound by the feelings of others gives one so many more options. We don't necessarily have to hurt anyone, and we don't necessarily want to, but we aren't going to feel guilty if it happens.

So in answer to your main question, yes, all other people are like this, but most people have varying degrees of emotional layering and baggage which serves to hide their inherent selfishness, just as much from themselves as from others.