Am I the only fashion obsessed INTP?

[Fiddling Lass]

T-Tweed... DB *drools*

 

[₲uardian]

I'd love to wear something like this:
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41S9JlrK7jL.jpg
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41+3Yix66JL.jpg
or this http://www.harristweedscotland.com/images/product/dalmore-harris-tweed-jacket-l.jpg

If not, then just a regular shirt, comfy jacket, jeans and boots.

1&2 are my style. 3 is what I want.

 

[ShipwreckSilence]

...This is in contrast to my brother (an ENTJ who's also in sales) who plans out his daily outfits for the week by writing it down on excel sheets every weekend and always looks like he came out of a magazine. He tends to like fancy lettered things with H or LV or D&G written on them which I find tacky.

I'm quite aware at the contradiction because I'm a pretty extreme INTP, and I often find myself unable to respond when people ask stuff like, "I like what you're wearing" or "Where'd you get that?" and ask follow-up questions.

I definitely can't plan my outfit beforehand. I do like to get out piles of clothes and try them all on to see what sort of possibilities are there on a night I'm home with nothing to do(...often). I hate visible lables as well. I love American Apparel and YesStyle.com(who rarely even have wash/material tags) because of their lack of labels. Also, talking about my looks/style used to be really hard for me as well until I realized that people don't normally compliment others so liberally on that sort of thing so I really did have their respect and interest. Even if I have no idea what I'm talking about, everyone is sure I must be right.

no you're an intj, a method actor one too. you judged your world, responded and acted accordingly. if you're persuasive and motivated like your posts seem to be you're not an intp. intj's are often mistaken as intp's. remember that you'd be accepted even when you're the calm you. passively judging.

I'm really not judgmental or motivated. It took me 4 years to finish cosmetology school(it's a one year course). My ability to judge is so pathetic that having to decide where to eat is a terrifying decision(the first place I see works or the first place you don't make a face at when it's said out loud). Ideas like Good and Bad are in the same boat as Santa Clause for me. I will say that the "mask" I try to put on is somewhere around an ENTJ I think, and I've always had a lot of admiration for such individuals. Having a fake me lets the real me always remain an observer that nobody ever really meets.

I've always have a good sense of aesthetics, though my tendency/ability to dress fabulously better than 99% of all guys has crept up on me along with the money to buy clothes.

Despite my social anxiety I'd like to think is mostly inside my head, I bathe in the attention.

Though in high school, I dressed like a hot mess without any real or normal clothes. Apparently my parents thought that clothes were magically supplied to children without any need to buy them.

I identify closely with all of this. I was incredibly awkward 'til my last year of highschool (though from other's point of view I had a really awesome grunge thing going on during early HS). None of my family are the slightest bit fashion conscious so I could never convince my parents on the importance of clothing/etc... When I finally did have money it was a somewhat awkward confusing road to where I've ended up. None of it came naturally and I really feel like that was the allure of it. It was the one thing I couldn't quickly gain proficiency in and so I set out to kick it's ass.

 

[snafupants]

I've always have a good sense of aesthetics, though my tendency/ability to dress fabulously better than 99% of all guys has crept up on me along with the money to buy clothes.

Despite my social anxiety I'd like to think is mostly inside my head, I bathe in the attention.

Though in high school, I dressed like a hot mess without any real or normal clothes. Apparently my parents thought that clothes were magically supplied to children without any need to buy them.

santa claus?

 

[₲uardian]

santa claus?

Yeah, they believed in santa claus >.>

 

[AnExperimentalTom]

I'm detecting a pocket theme on this thread. That has to be one of my biggest beefs with the fashion industry - the fact that it downplays the importance of pockets in women's clothing. Why, oh why are the pockets for women's jeans so small? And why do they insist on making women's dress pants without pockets? Sheesh. Makes it such that you can't even go to the restroom without toting your purse. Hell, I'd ditch the purse if they gave me a decent sized pocket! Huff. Puff. Okay, rant over.

If they gave you those pockets to point you didn't need the purse you would be spending less. By making the pockets ridiculously small they kind of force you to also buy a bag/purse to be able to carry stuff. More money for them.

I'm no expert on the subject though, but that's what my mind is telling me.

On topic though, as long as I feel comfortable then I don't care what I wearing. I'll make an effort to look presentable, and if I have an interview, smart, but for day to day living I just want to be comfortable so that I can get on with whats important to me, and not have to be constantly worrying about if what I'm wearing is correct, or looks good.

Besides, surely fashion (as with any design) is in the eye of the individual. Why should I let someone I don't know dictate to me what I must wear this "season".

 

[Trebuchet]

If they gave you those pockets to point you didn't need the purse you would be spending less. By making the pockets ridiculously small they kind of force you to also buy a bag/purse to be able to carry stuff. More money for them.

That's certainly possible, and not beyond them to be so sneaky. My guess is that fashion designers like to design for tall skinny women, and they like to accentuate the tall skinniness. They don't like to design bulges, so they treat pockets like decorations instead of functional containers. I seriously doubt that they consider the convenience of the wearer at all. It is all about looking good, and staying skinny. Anyway, most women carry a purse as a fashion accessory, like high-heel shoes. Even if women had decent pockets, I think most women would still carry them.

(This is not an argument against decent pockets for women. I'd like better pockets instead of a purse, too.)

 

[ShipwreckSilence]

That's certainly possible, and not beyond them to be so sneaky. My guess is that fashion designers like to design for tall skinny women, and they like to accentuate the tall skinniness. They don't like to design bulges, so they treat pockets like decorations instead of functional containers. I seriously doubt that they consider the convenience of the wearer at all. It is all about looking good, and staying skinny. Anyway, most women carry a purse as a fashion accessory, like high-heel shoes. Even if women had decent pockets, I think most women would still carry them.

(This is not an argument against decent pockets for women. I'd like better pockets instead of a purse, too.)

I'd have to agree with the pockets as decorations idea. Half the time girls slacks have fake pocket openings but no actual pocket. All to avoid bulge. I know if I get a pair of perfect fitting jeans with flaps on the pockets or something I often cut them off because the flaps curl up in the wash and i don't want to iron them.

I definitely had a thing for pockets when I was younger but somewhere along the line I became obsessed with the slim/smooth profile thing. I'm guessing body/self-image issues superseded personal inclinations in my case? Now the idea of more than the standard 4 pockets makes me cringe. Also shirts with sleeve pockets drive me nuts. I love hoodies with the big kangaroo type front pockets though.

 

[Trebuchet]

I know if I get a pair of perfect fitting jeans with flaps on the pockets or something I often cut them off because the flaps curl up in the wash and i don't want to iron them.

So, if you don't like bulge, where do you keep your wallet and keys and so on?

I am starting to think my daughter may be a fashion-obsessed INTP. I'm not sure she's INTP (though the signs are there), but fashion is the one thing she has always had control over in her life. That's a big deal when you are six. Since I'm not interested/knowledgable about fashion, I decided she was on her own. She started at age 2 wearing mixed shoes, or rhinestone shorts with a plaid shirt and a winter coat, plus maybe a spider-shaped barrette. Even I knew it wasn't fashionable but I didn't say anything. You can get away with a lot at age 2, and she began to develop a personal style over the next few years.

I just take her to Target and point her toward whatever is in the front of the store, where the big signs advertise the newest stock. I tell her how many things she can buy (e.g. 2 shirts and 1 dress or long pants, socks if you want them) and set a budget, and she can pick whatever she wants. She gets herself dressed, again however she wants. My only rules are they must be 1) age appropriate, 2) weather appropriate, and 3) sometimes it is a special occasion and a dress is mandatory. She spends a lot of time finding things that match or look good together, making sure the shoes and hairstyle look good with it, and recently she discovered contrast and layers. She talks to her babysitter about it since I can't teach her much. It is all fascinating to me. And she gets a lot of comments that she is always fashionable, so I guess she is getting it right.

 

[Sforza]

So, if you don't like bulge, where do you keep your wallet and keys and so on?

I have a small closet full of bags for that

 

[ShipwreckSilence]

So, if you don't like bulge, where do you keep your wallet and keys and so on?

I am starting to think my daughter may be a fashion-obsessed INTP. I'm not sure she's INTP (though the signs are there), but fashion is the one thing she has always had control over in her life. That's a big deal when you are six. Since I'm not interested/knowledgable about fashion, I decided she was on her own. She started at age 2 wearing mixed shoes, or rhinestone shorts with a plaid shirt and a winter coat, plus maybe a spider-shaped barrette. Even I knew it wasn't fashionable but I didn't say anything. You can get away with a lot at age 2, and she began to develop a personal style over the next few years.

I just take her to Target and point her toward whatever is in the front of the store, where the big signs advertise the newest stock. I tell her how many things she can buy (e.g. 2 shirts and 1 dress or long pants, socks if you want them) and set a budget, and she can pick whatever she wants. She gets herself dressed, again however she wants. My only rules are they must be 1) age appropriate, 2) weather appropriate, and 3) sometimes it is a special occasion and a dress is mandatory. She spends a lot of time finding things that match or look good together, making sure the shoes and hairstyle look good with it, and recently she discovered contrast and layers. She talks to her babysitter about it since I can't teach her much. It is all fascinating to me. And she gets a lot of comments that she is always fashionable, so I guess she is getting it right.

I generally don't put my keys and phone in my pockets, just carry them in my hands. All my cash and cards are folded up together, maybe with a rubber band or clip so they take up less room and in my back or front right pocket(whichever is less noticeable). If I need more than that I go for a clutch or bag.

I would have LOVED that as a kid. I still cringe when I think of those sweat suits my mother would buy and make me wear. On top of that I had to wear them even after I grew out of them somewhat just because it fit "well enough." I think she'll probably be better for it. The most important thing is probably just to make sure she knows she's pretty. You mention the word "control" and I think that's something to pay attention to. The down side of my "art" being my personal fashion means that when I can't figure out how to get my hair just right or I don't have the right sort of jeans for that day I can get pretty seriously depressed. It's not some shallow materialistic thing, I simply have lost that "control" and it can make me very uncomfortable.

I've actually started to think I may well be an ENTP. I've always gone through these extreme depressive/reclusive phases where I don't want to be around anyone but I think it's related more to the appearance/control thing than to introversion.

 

[Trebuchet]

The most important thing is probably just to make sure she knows she's pretty. You mention the word "control" and I think that's something to pay attention to. The down side of my "art" being my personal fashion means that when I can't figure out how to get my hair just right or I don't have the right sort of jeans for that day I can get pretty seriously depressed.

That's good advice. (I take it you are not a parent? Either way, that's a good instinct.) She is, of course, beautiful (totally objective parent opinion), and likes her own appearance. But it is a fine line to tread.

One problem for girls is the stereotypes about beauty. Beautiful girls are not supposed to have any problems, but in truth, struggling is part of life. I don't want her to think that if she has problems, she must not be pretty! Or that her problems can be solved with makeup or new shoes.

Also, pretty girls are imagined to be dimwitted. I doubt she will pretend to be stupid in order to be pretty - I won't let her fall for that one - but it isn't any fun to have to prove you are smart over and over again. I was reading a frustrating article recently: "Beautiful women face discrimination in certain jobs."

Attractive women were discriminated against when applying for jobs considered "masculine" and for which appearance was not seen as important to the job. Such positions included job titles like manager of research and development, director of finance, mechanical engineer and construction supervisor.

"In these professions being attractive was highly detrimental to women," said Johnson. "In every other kind of job, attractive women were preferred. This wasn't the case with men which shows that there is still a double standard when it comes to gender."​

I don't know what she will face when she gets older. Times change. That will too. But I want her to be able to to handle whatever she finds.

I think if I had to wear unfashionable clothes that I hated as a kid, I would get depressed about my looks from time to time, too. I'm hoping that she'll develop her own style strongly enough that by the time peer pressure kicks in, it won't matter to her. She has far more self confidence than I did at her age, anyway.

 

[EyeSeeCold]

I've actually started to think I may well be an ENTP. I've always gone through these extreme depressive/reclusive phases where I don't want to be around anyone but I think it's related more to the appearance/control thing than to introversion.

I believe that's just your tertiary Si. ENTPs have a dormant Si, and really have no care for conforming appearances at all (e.g. Cosmo Kramer from Seinfeld).

Introverted sensing controls comfortableness and aesthetic intelligence. I too go through a slight depression if I'm not comfortable with my appearance in the presence of others. Wearing clothes that I find highly comfortable and stylish gives me confidence and I start to express my emotions, i.e. I become happy and giddy.

 

[Malkkev]

I have always been interested in fashion but in this past year it has started to interest me more. My sister (not an INTP, but an I) is very much into fashion and as the younger brother I had to tolerate it growing up as she always had control of the remote.

Now that I am living with her for a time I watch Project runway religiously with here among a few other shows. I think its the competitive nature that has me hooked but I appreciate the artistic beauty that is involved. It has made me want to learn a little more but beyond that my interest wains...

 

[Washington]

I just want to look nice and be comfortable.
I like clothes that fit properly and are comfortable. There's nothing better than an article of clothing that fits well, looks good, and is comfy.
Though a t-shirt, jeans, basic converse or vans with a hoodie is the ultimate comfort wear and I love it.

 

[doncarlzone]

I'm from Scandinavia where everybody seem to dress well, even most nerds know what they are doing. I am sort of culturally damaged because of that, not to mention that older sister never got herself an little sister. This results in me not looking like your "usual" INTP (although if you dig deeper you'll realize I'm not as neat as I may look).

That being said, I really dislike fashion and trends. I find a look and then I go for it. Usually that look involves conveying that I am not your usual "modern fashionable guy". I want the nerdy artistic girls to look after me, that's really what it is about.

I believe that's just your tertiary Si. ENTPs have a dormant Si, and really have no care for conforming appearances at all (e.g. Cosmo Kramer from Seinfeld).

Introverted sensing controls comfortableness and aesthetic intelligence. I too go through a slight depression if I'm not comfortable with my appearance in the presence of others. Wearing clothes that I find highly comfortable and stylish gives me confidence and I start to express my emotions, i.e. I become happy and giddy.

I can really relate to this. I wrote a bit more about this here in relation to beauty:

When you're confident in your looks and feel you get all the right glances, that may be a nice feeling but also a rare one. It doesn't matter if you are Ryan Gosling, you will always feel "ugly" once in a while. You can walk down one street and feel great, walk down another and suddenly feel like shit.

I'm a ginger and have always been very insecure about my looks, despite the fact that I am rationally aware that I'm decent looking. I am constantly trying get that "confident feel", it's like a drug. And I know I am not the only one.

This "rush" of feeling very attractive is something primarily good looking people seek, they just need those "looks" from others every day, otherwise they feel ugly. This, I believe also explains why good looking people, in general dress much better than not so attractive people. In order to get the rush, they need to look perfect and maintain perfection and whatever is perfect now, is never perfect the week after so it is a never ending race.

Just look at celebrities having to change clothes 4 times a day, it is just an extreme obsession.

 

[Architect]

I just want to look nice and be comfortable.
I like clothes that fit properly and are comfortable. There's nothing better than an article of clothing that fits well, looks good, and is comfy.
Though a t-shirt, jeans, basic converse or vans with a hoodie is the ultimate comfort wear and I love it.

Why the thread necro to add nothing new to the long dead conversation?

 

[spectralvision]

I am very interested in being fashionable but don't always present myself as such bc i have low esteem, etc.

Of course, i still don;t know if I'm INTP or INFP.

 

[BloodCountess88]

I lived in the fashion capitals of the world, my high school years were hanging with girls who slipped getting lunch just to go shopping more. I'm like the opposite, I rather have comfort and I tend to wear jeans and t-shirts. I do have a style, definitively a rock star thing going on and I love leather boots and leather mini skirts, and lace. I also do medieval/ Victorian ( I currently live in a Victorian home and city) stuff, it goes with the fact that I have really long hair ( to my tailbone).

 

[kvothe27]

Fashion strikes me as mostly a waste of time in American during a time when most Americans are overweight-to-obese. Want to look better than other people? Simply go to the gym and maintain a healthy body weight. The bar really isn't set that high, imo.

But, perhaps the pretty packaging is sufficient for socializing purposes. It may also be wise to maintain a good girth to let people know you're up for one of our favorite traditions: eating ridiculous amounts of food at restaurants while making noises at each other.

 

[Slacker_Assassin]

Short answer to this old thread: no, you are not.

As I've gotten older, I've grown thoroughly interested in fashion. As a means to express myself, to see how people express themselves. It's an interesting thing to study.

Gabi Gregg sparked my interest in fashion. From there, just finding a plethora of fashion blogs, looking for things on the outskirts of what is considered cool in magazines.
I love thinking of fashion as a method for marginalized/misfits to express themselves. Gabi Gregg is plus-sized for example. I love Advanced Style because it showcases elderly folks looking amazing. My latest obsession is The Stranger; an introverted, intellectual young woman told in her younger years that she was "troublesome" for not being a normal girl. Also, Faintly Masculine, because she's the cutest thing ever.

Several of the general characteristic given to INTPs don't fit a lot of people. When I stumbled on how INTPs tend to not care about fashion, I balked. Surely that was me to some level in high school, but since senior year I've grown to appreciate nice, sophisticated style. Does that mean I'm into every single trend? No, of course not. I find what I like, observe trends and pick and choose, and am slowly trying to develop a style of my own.

 

[kvothe27]

Am I the only one who isn't effected by someone's clothing, excepting extreme cases? To me, something is fashionable because good looking, charismatic people are wearing it. I'm of the opinion that it's mostly the person that makes the clothing work or look good, not the other way around. Clothing can make someone look slightly better, but, imo, it usually doesn't produce a drastic change. Perhaps it makes a difference to people with a strong sense of Se, but I see right through it.

In the first link in the above post, all I see are unhealthy, overweight women wearing various kinds of clothing. Sure, they might look a little worse if they were just wearing yoga pants with a sports bra, but why waste time on fashion, when they could just set three-to-five months aside to become healthy? Is it really that hard to count calories and follow an exercise regime?

I find it a little disturbing actually. About 70 % of the adult American population is overweight-to-obese, and overweight-to-obese people are spending their time on fashion? I realize the aesthetics of it are subjective, but it's an objectively unhealthy lifestyle.

Whatever. I guess this is something, as well as people racking up large amounts of consumer debt to buy a lot of stupid shit, that will continue to vex me until I jump ship on this country.

 

[Slacker_Assassin]

And *appearing* to be fit would be better? Someone can *look* healthy and be rather unhealthy.
And if a person does dedicate three to five months to getting to your version of healthy, do they have to abandon all sense of style during that period of time?

Neither someone's weight nor their fashion choices ultimately affect you, so I cannot understand how you are so frustrated with the former but apathetic toward the latter.

 

[Spirit]

Am I the only one who isn't effected by someone's clothing, excepting extreme cases? To me, something is fashionable because good looking, charismatic people are wearing it. I'm of the opinion that it's mostly the person that makes the clothing work or look good, not the other way around. Clothing can make someone look slightly better, but, imo, it usually doesn't produce a drastic change. Perhaps it makes a difference to people with a strong sense of Se, but I see right through it.

In the first link in the above post, all I see are unhealthy, overweight women wearing various kinds of clothing. Sure, they might look a little worse if they were just wearing yoga pants with a sports bra, but why waste time on fashion, when they could just set three-to-five months aside to become healthy? Is it really that hard to count calories and follow an exercise regime?

I find it a little disturbing actually. About 70 % of the adult American population is overweight-to-obese, and overweight-to-obese people are spending their time on fashion? I realize the aesthetics of it are subjective, but it's an objectively unhealthy lifestyle.

Whatever. I guess this is something, as well as people racking up large amounts of consumer debt to buy a lot of stupid shit, that will continue to vex me until I jump ship on this country.

It is cheaper and less energy for an obese person to have outward changes by focusing on their fashion than by losing the weight.


There is also the loose skin factor...

 

[Slacker_Assassin]

Cheaper? You haven't seen a lot plus-size clothing prices...

 

[kvothe27]

And *appearing* to be fit would be better? Someone can *look* healthy and be rather unhealthy.

Yes, but this is just the exception, so I'll disregard it. Amazingly, appearing fit strongly correlates with actually being fit.

And if a person does dedicate three to five months to getting to your version of healthy, do they have to abandon all sense of style during that period of time?

Not necessarily my version of healthy -- they could be in accordance with some measure or whatever, such as the BMI or some body fat percentage or doctor recommendations. I'm not asking everyone to look like fitness models.

No. The two are not mutually exclusive obviously. It just doesn't make any sense to me to spend so much time on fashion, which is meant to improve appearance, and apparently little-to-none on physical fitness, which also improves appearance. This is in accordance with my subjective values, obviously, but I believe if people more widely adopted such values, people would be healthier overall. Do you believe health to be more valuable than fashion?

Also, to make my assumption explicit, I do not believe it to be a wild assumption to believe that most people who appear to be borderline-obese-to-obese to be unhealthy.

Neither someone's weight nor their fashion choices ultimately affect you, so I cannot understand how you are so frustrated with the former but apathetic toward the latter.

Obesity will likely effect my insurance premiums, so weight likely will ultimately effect me. I also believe the obesity epidemic to be another symptom of the decadence in this country.

I'm apathetic to the latter because I view it as possessing little substance. Physical fitness, on the other hand, and exercise in general, has benefits that go beyond just improving appearance. It improves brain functioning and ameliorates many mental health problems. It improves academic performance as well. I don't believe it to be a panacea, but a very important step in the right direction.

If you are interested in reading more, read the following book:

Amazon.com: Spark: The Revolutionary New Science of Exercise and the Brain (9780316113519): John J. Ratey, Eric Hagerman: Books@@AMEPARAM@@http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51CbFW49qrL.@@AMEPARAM@@51CbFW49qrL

Yes, people are capable of doing fashion and working fitness at the same time, but I don't see this happening. I just see the obesity epidemic getting worse and worse. As such, I view the promotion of plus sized fashion as a symptom of people just giving up on maintaining a healthy body weight.

 

[Spirit]

Cheaper? You haven't seen a lot plus-size clothing prices...

Plastic Surgery $4000+

Loose weight and be firm... 15-24 months in the gym

 

[kvothe27]

It is cheaper and less energy for an obese person to have outward changes by focusing on their fashion than by losing the weight.


There is also the loose skin factor...

Not for me. Shopping is exhausting for me. Jogging is much more energizing than shopping for clothing with fluorescent lighting everywhere *shudders*.

 

[BloodCountess88]

It is cheaper and less energy for an obese person to have outward changes by focusing on their fashion than by losing the weight.


There is also the loose skin factor...

I lost 80lbs after having twins. No loose skin. I sarted almost a year after I had kids, my kids are 3 and I'm a size 2-4. No plastic surgery, only loose skin is on my stomach and it's not even that noticeable.

BTW, I did it all with hernias (which I'm getting fixed this year, along with the severe muscle separation which causes a lot of issues). It sucked, it was slow, but replacing my wardrobe would have been way more expensive, so was enlarging an expensive engagement right and wedding band.


Add that with a list of health issues (meds for hypertension and feeling lethargic and miserable) and the fact that eating a base of fruit and vegetables is cheaper than processed foods (rice and beans for 4 is about 7 bucks, 10 if you add veggies. My fish and salad meal today was about 5 for the fish and 5 for the tomatoes and lettuce that I still have left over). I have no gym membership.