adderrall or concerta/ritalin?

[deadpixel]

Which do you prefer and why?

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4UwjemGUVXE
none of the above.

 

[Pizzabeak]

The add/ADHD stuff is mostly horseshit. Anyone can take the drug and have improved concentration. They should have just marketed them as a nootropic.

I'm not even diagnosed but could probably "benefit" from taking Ritalin.

I thought they also recently standardized shyness as a disorder? They're gonna start prescribing cocaine to people, which is basically what Ritalin is

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Interesting etymological detail:
cockaigne.

 

[deadpixel]

Maybe so to all of the above, who knows, but I have a very short attention span and cant seem to learn things that I NEED to learn without medication that increases my attention span.

If you cant relate to the topic please refrain from making any comments, im not looking for why you think ADD doesnt exist or why you think medication is nonsense. Im not trying to sound like a dick but I'm looking for personal experiences that I can relate to as someone who does have ADD.

For those who do have ADD which of these medications do you prefer? Adderrall makes me agitated when I have to deal with other human beings but it gets the job done, and ritalin used to work when I was very young but its been such a long time since Ive tried ritalin.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

It's all bogus, man.
You can do it.

 

[deadpixel]

It's all bogus, man.
You can do it.

When i was in gradeschool/middleschool/highschool I used to try my ass off, my parents got me tutors, sent me to the "best" schools. I would try my hardest to focus and comprehend and absorb material, I knew that if I didn't that I would get the shit beat out of me, so I was always getting the shit beat out of me. Do you think I wanted that as a child? I failed two grades and got sent to boarding school after that, a place where there was 4 hours of mandatory supervised study periods after school and I still failed my first semester. I got taken to a therapist and diagnosed with attention deficit disorder, got put on ritalin, and for the first time in my life was actually an honor student. So please, dont tell me it doesnt exist. I understand how it could sound far-fetched to someone who truly doesnt have it, but it exists, trust me.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I'm usually disappointed with a progress I've made. When it begins I plan on doing this, this, and this but by the end of the day it seems as if I could have worked harder/gotten more done than I actually did. What is that? Is that what ritalin is for? Factors include needing to take breaks for meals and maybe some other random things.

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

Some need a little more exercise, training and attention than others.
But who said that a pill can make good for those?

 

[deadpixel]

I'm usually disappointed with a progress I've made. When it begins I plan on doing this, this, and this but by the end of the day it seems as if I could have worked harder/gotten more done than I actually did. What is that? Is that what ritalin is for? Factors include needing to take breaks for meals and maybe some other random things.

-ADD is trying your hardest to understand what your teacher is trying to teach and not absorbing ANY of it.

-ADD is when you are called on to read aloud and you dont even know what page the rest of the class is on.

-ADD is having your parents spend hours trying to help you with homework and you arent learning anything.

-ADD is having your parents hire tutors and even professional tutors cant teach you anything.

-ADD is when you fail two grades when you arent a problematic child or a behavioral problem and have perfect attendance.

-ADD is reading half of a page and then realising you have to start over because you just realised you havent been paying attention to yourself reading, repeat 5 times until you finally get it.

-ADD is having a very hard time following directions.

-ADD is when all of this seems to be cured from taking a pill and then being able to make all of these problems your BITCH.

 

[deadpixel]

Some need a little more exercise, training and attention than others.
But who said that a pill can make good for those?

Everybody is different, medication that increases my attention span works wonders. I only need it when I need to learn something, otherwise I actually hate ADD medication altogether. I see a lot of people say that ADD medication makes the feel "high" or "euphoric", I've never experienced this before, not even once. I honestly dont even like it, but it helps me to focus in situations when I have to.

 

[Pizzabeak]

Most of that is probably the SJ oriented school system sucking. Not knowing what page the class is on happens sometimes, if you're intp it's probably normal enough from speculating on personal curricula or going off on a tangent, depending on the class you're in I guess. Even if it's something you really like the teacher could suck.
Even when I do extracurricular reading sometimes re-reading is necessary probably for the same reasons listed above ^
probably just read later and do something more conducive for the moment or convince yourself to have discipline and get the thing done

everyone has add

I've always wanted to try it once just to see how different I'd operate

 

[Ex-User (9062)]

the thing is, it also destroys your brain.

 

[deadpixel]

the thing is, it also destroys your brain.

Yeah drugs tend to do that.

 

[pjoa09]

Yeah drugs tend to do that.

i just binge on redbull and cigs before exams.

 

[Variform]

The add/ADHD stuff is mostly horseshit. Anyone can take the drug and have improved concentration. They should have just marketed them as a nootropic.

So you are saying there is no dopamine regulatory issue in some people's brains?

I'm not even diagnosed but could probably "benefit" from taking Ritalin.

I thought they also recently standardized shyness as a disorder? They're gonna start prescribing cocaine to people, which is basically what Ritalin is

Methylfenidate has been on the market for over 40 years. So we can't really say it is a hype. ADHD has been known a long time, back to the 1930's.

This medicine works as a re-uptake inhibitor for dopamine. Yes, methylfenidate will give anyone a boost, that is why it is popular on the market to take for tests and exams.

I can't wait to try it.

 

[Variform]

Maybe so to all of the above, who knows, but I have a very short attention span and cant seem to learn things that I NEED to learn without medication that increases my attention span.

I have exactly the same issue and I have come to realize this after more than a decade of therapy. The talks are helpful to gain insight in emotional problems. But it does not help me gain focus, attention, motivation and concentration to perform tasks.

I do things, but it takes so much out of me it is like running on empty. E.g. I re-paved a terrace, but where normal people do it in a week, taking a day off in between because the tiles are very heavy, I do it in months, because in between the work I have no motivation. Also can't lay more than 5 tiles at a time. See?

That is why I am awaiting a diagnostic procedure for ADD. So I have no xp with any medication yet. But I am dying to try.

There are kids on YT that say 'it is as if a light comes on in my head' or 'it is like a fist is clearing up.' I have no idea if I have this fog, but I do know I just cannot...seem...to...get...the...fuck...going.

If you cant relate to the topic please refrain from making any comments, im not looking for why you think ADD doesnt exist or why you think medication is nonsense. Im not trying to sound like a dick but I'm looking for personal experiences that I can relate to as someone who does have ADD.

The antipsychiatry people and add-ons always come out when ADD is mentioned.

For those who do have ADD which of these medications do you prefer? Adderrall makes me agitated when I have to deal with other human beings but it gets the job done, and ritalin used to work when I was very young but its been such a long time since Ive tried ritalin.

I understand that many people like the long lasting versions of Ritalin and Concerta although it is not paid for ny health insurance over here. Only the short lasting Ritalin is. And that is what I would prefer to try first. For kids going to school this is not handy, but to me it sounds good enough, that when I need to do stuff around the house I can take it and ride the short wave.

Or when I want to write which I really like to be able to do in a more structured, organized target oriented way than writing posts on a forum like this one.

I am getting tired of waiting for the hospital to invite me for the procedure. I have great hope for Ritalin. The short version works 2 to 4 hours. Medikinet CR (6-8 hours) and Concerta work 7-10 hours. Equasym as well.

I can use the methylfenidate sideeffect of losing appetite.

 

[Variform]

Most of that is probably the SJ oriented school system sucking. Not knowing what page the class is on happens sometimes, if you're intp it's probably normal enough from speculating on personal curricula or going off on a tangent, depending on the class you're in I guess. Even if it's something you really like the teacher could suck.

No man. That is not what it is about. All you do is parrot someone else it seems.

You don't seem to know what psychiatry is. It is about symptoms. And something is only a symptom, not a character trait or a fluke or some sort, when it is persistent and when it makes you struggle in some areas of your life, like school, relationships or at work. Plus there is a time factor. The symptom has to be there for a longer period of time.

What Cooper is saying is that his problems were persistent, invasive and over a long period of time, debilitating him in school and as a result of failing, he got beat up too by his parents, yeah that is just fucking wonderful!

You cannot, CANNOT simply brush it off by saying the school system sucks for INTP's, it is a bad teacher. That is flying in the face of anyone who has these issues and it simply illogiccally denies the facts of the matter.

This is science you know, not a theory of ADD. It is researched and it is a dopamine issue. The brain is physically hampered.

It is real and it can be seen on fMRI scans, it is measurable. Do you research!

Even when I do extracurricular reading sometimes re-reading is necessary probably for the same reasons listed above ^
probably just read later and do something more conducive for the moment or convince yourself to have discipline and get the thing done

No, that is not how it works.

everyone has add

I've always wanted to try it once just to see how different I'd operate

Not everyone had ADD and I find myself getting fucking angry with people like you for your stupidity. It is people like you that help blur the issue for many parents and children, by perpetuating this lie that ADHD is not real.

Listen, I DO NOT LIKE BIG PHARMA either. But that will NOT lead me to think that some disorder is not real. BIG PHARMA didn't invent ADHD. It has been known for a 100 fucking years. Ritalin, the single medicine usually picked out to trash, has been around for over 40 years. It is now a generic medication, can be made by any company. No longer under a patent that can earn shareholders loads of dividend.

I have been personally screwed by GlaxoSmithKline when I took Paxil/Seroxat. I appeared in court because it fucked me up so bad. Don't you think I have a peeve with Big Pharma?

Inform yourself on the real matter or stfu.

 

[Minuend]

Most of that is probably the SJ oriented school system sucking. Not knowing what page the class is on happens sometimes, if you're intp it's probably normal enough from speculating on personal curricula or going off on a tangent, depending on the class you're in I guess. Even if it's something you really like the teacher could suck.
Even when I do extracurricular reading sometimes re-reading is necessary probably for the same reasons listed above ^
probably just read later and do something more conducive for the moment or convince yourself to have discipline and get the thing done

everyone has add

I've always wanted to try it once just to see how different I'd operate

ADHD is a neurological disorder, not a behavioral one.

Yes, most people will sometimes daydream a little, be a bit whimsical, be late etc. For the ADHD this is more chronical in nature. They are unable to be on time, concentrate, stay in a conversation. There is an inability to use discipline, because the parts of the brain that deals with that is "broken".

The Roles of Dopamine and Noradrenaline in the
Pathophysiology and Treatment of Attention-Deficit/
Hyperactivity Disorder

An MRI Study of the Cerebellar Vermis
ADHD is associated with a dysfunction in orbitofrontal cortex
Lower cerebral glucose metabolism

Observed differences in those with ADHD and their siblings that don't meet the criteria (neurotypicals are 0):

Spoiler

Spoiler

From here

 

[Red myst]

Most of that is probably the SJ oriented school system sucking. Not knowing what page the class is on happens sometimes, if you're intp it's probably normal enough from speculating on personal curricula or going off on a tangent, depending on the class you're in I guess. Even if it's something you really like the teacher could suck.
Even when I do extracurricular reading sometimes re-reading is necessary probably for the same reasons listed above ^
probably just read later and do something more conducive for the moment or convince yourself to have discipline and get the thing done

everyone has add

I've always wanted to try it once just to see how different I'd operate

I used to to have the exact same attitude you do about ADD till I saw how meds can change someones life.
I had a friend in school who was a very mild mannered, polite, likable kid. He struggled in school till the 6th grade. He dragged along the bottom as a C, D, student no matter how much effort he put into it. He had tutors, and went to summer school. He spent way more time than others just trying to learn, and was only just scraping by. Even failed a grade. Not a very happy part of his childhood. Once he finally got diagnosed with ADD, he was put on Ritalin. One week later, a teacher call his parents. She did not know he was on meds. She was just beside herself with a sudden change in him. She wanted to know what was different. He was turning in remarkable work and made the first ever A one a test in her class. First time his parents ever got a call from school about how well he was doing as opposed to how he was in danger of failing. He went on to be an honor roll student. That made a believer out of me.

 

[Pyropyro]

I don't know man, the thought of putting children to meds that can scar their mind just so they can get honors... It's just plain wrong.

 

[Methodician]

I'll chime in here... Those of you who deny the existence of ADD/ADHD are off your rocker. Do the research, don't just spout your opinions as though they're facts. If you want to claim it's all a big lie or nonexistent at the very least cite some sources.

I was diagnosed with ADHD as a very young child. I agree that putting young kids on high-dose amphetamines may not be the best approach but it WORKS LIKE MAGIC. Yes, anyone could take amphetamines and gain a performance boost but not everyone suffers from specific neurotransmitter imbalances that magically disappear with the right drugs.

To the OP: I've always favored name-brand Ritalin but maybe just because that's what I was put on when I was like 6. Generic works but can have more side effects and worse focus. In my experience, quick release is best. If you have problems with self control or an addictive personality you may want to steer clear and go for the SR versions (so you don't notice or think about the drug as much) but when you can bump up your concentration just enough at just the right times, you begin to experience more normal performance IMO. People's brains constantly regulate dopamine, neuropinepherine, and seritonin to match their needs. In fact, I generally break my pills into halves or quarters and take those little bits only when a need for focus in the next half hour is anticipated. This way you get better performance at the right times without taking megadoses every day. Mixing low-dose amphetamines with a dash of coffee or tea helps a lot too!

Now, THIS IS THE MOST IMPORTANT THING I HAVE TO SAY:

My ADHD persisted into adulthood, though I went through periods in life where the symptoms seemed to diminish greatly. I finally understand why the symptoms varied so much! Now, I have all but cured it! Believe it or not, ADHD is not 100% genetic. Lifestyle factors play a major role. Optimize your nutrition, eat a low-carb or moderate-carb diet, high in saturated and monounsaturated fats, high in veggies and fruits, eat egg yolks a few times a week, and eat liver 1-2 times per week or supplement with b-complex. Minimize consumption of industrial seed oils (omega 6) and try to get sufficient omega 3 from oily fish and maybe a supplement. Don't eat processed foods because they totally fuck your concentration. Get regular cardiovascular exercise 3-5 times per week. Probably should avoid wheat too...

Recap:

• Low-carb, high-fat diet with plenty of fruits/veggies and optimal micronutrition.
• Try to eat liver, or at least get some B-vitamins. Eat egg yolks (whites are optional) several times a week.
• eat plenty of veggies and a bit of fresh fruit. Avoid sugar and all processed foods.
• EXERCISE no matter your body type. You could look and feel pretty fit while sitting on your ass all day and your brain will suffer.
• gradually reduce your reliance on drugs, consider mixing low-dose ritalin with low-doses of caffeine for optimal results with minimal drug exposure.

This is a dramatic oversimplification of what I've done to overcome my own ADHD but if you follow those steps, you will at least improve significantly if not reap all the benefits I have.

 

[Red myst]

I don't know man, the thought of putting children to meds that can scar their mind just so they can get honors... It's just plain wrong.

I don't think anyone would condone such a thing. I don't think any of the post here reflect that the motivation to take meds was to get honors.

That's like athletes taking steroids to enhance their performance. To me that is an abuse of the drug. But Steroids are helpful in certain situations. My child had asthma for a period of a few years. The doctor put him on something called Vancenase. It was some kind of steroid. We did not like it, but it allowed him to an overall healthier childhood. After a few years he seemed to grow out of needing it.
Anyway, I don't want to derail this thread. So far no one has answered Coopers question.

 

[Methodician]

So far no one has answered Coopers question.

I did attempt to answer it but n=1 isn't always optimal. His neurochemical imbalance may be slightly different from mine. For instance, the "antidepressant" known as Bupropion can be highly effective against ADD in some individuals. I had some success with it, especially where rote memorization is concerned.

 

[Pizzabeak]

^^ not really. It hasn't really been a thing I was ultra interested in to attempt to look more in depth to. Appreciate the links and testimony though. If I did actually read everything and still said the same thing it might be a little different.

 

[Methodician]

^^ not really. It hasn't really been a thing I was ultra interested in to attempt to look more in depth to. Appreciate the links and testimony though. If I did actually read everything and still said the same thing it might be a little different.

Then where do you get off popping right into the thread with this load of opinionated crap:

The add/ADHD stuff is mostly horseshit. Anyone can take the drug and have improved concentration. They should have just marketed them as a nootropic.

I'm not even diagnosed but could probably "benefit" from taking Ritalin.

I thought they also recently standardized shyness as a disorder? They're gonna start prescribing cocaine to people, which is basically what Ritalin is

Just because amphetamines can act as performance enhancers for most people doesn't diminish the validity of a condition such as ADD/ADHD... and people like you make it all the more difficult from those who struggle with this strange condition.

 

[Pizzabeak]

I was trying to get to the root of the concern

 

[Methodician]

I was trying to get to the root of the concern

eh???

 

[deadpixel]

Geez you guys are something else, the thread isnt about whether or not attention deficiency is a myth or not, im asking about which treatment you prefer. An INTP forum for sure to say the least.

 

[Cherry Cola]

Attention deficiency is overdiagnosed and ritalin is a nootropic. Therefore I am afraid it follows that Pissbeak and Salmon are completely justified in being disrespectful cunts who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Scanning through, it doesn't appear that anyone actually addressed the specific meds (if someone has... sorry ).

None of those listed. Strattera is what you want, because it's not a stimulant. Adderall/Ritalin/Concerta et al do cause very real brain damage with long term use.

G'nite folks. Fishin' in the mornin'

 

[Pizzabeak]

I still haven't even read completely into it so I'll withhold my judgments. There was supposed to be another sentence attached to this but I forgot what it was supposed to be...

 

[Variform]

Yeah drugs tend to do that.

Not all drugs. Even now you have DMT in your brain, which is dimethyltriptamine, so in fact you have an illegal substance in your blood. It is the most harmless drugs, because it is metabolized so fast, the trip takes mere minutes.
Other substances have no harmful effects, like heroine in pure form and psilocybine, which is very closely related to brain chemistry. There are others. I don't have a list ready.

 

[Variform]

Attention deficiency is overdiagnosed and ritalin is a nootropic. Therefore I am afraid it follows that Pissbeak and Salmon are completely justified in being disrespectful cunts who don't know what they are talking about.

But over-diagnosis ALSO doesn't negate the fact the condition is real. Is your attitude typical in Sweden, I wonder? Are there more and more people getting this dx?

I have problems with the application of the word nootropic. That implies a neurotypical person that takes a 'smart drug' to get a boost, or enhanced capabilities.

ADHD medication is not used as such. It is not applied to go from a baseline operation to an enhanced operation, but to go from a sub-par operation to a baseline operation or neurotypical standard.

Therefore, ADHD medication, such as methylfenidate, cannot be considered nootropics for people with ADHD and is therefore rightfully labeled a 'medication', not a nootropic.

 

[Variform]

Scanning through, it doesn't appear that anyone actually addressed the specific meds (if someone has... sorry ).

None of those listed. Strattera is what you want, because it's not a stimulant. Adderall/Ritalin/Concerta et al do cause very real brain damage with long term use.

G'nite folks. Fishin' in the mornin'

Doesn't Strattera also have sideeffects? And what about the long term use? Strattera affects the liver and may damage it used long term. 1:50.000 chance.

It can cause suicidal thoughts. Also, quick to anger and irritation.

I don'think it is fair to elevate one particular medicine above another.

I also always have this idea that people worry a lot, rightfully so - believe me, I lived it - about the sideefects yet forget that the need for it outweighs the risks.

To live with ADHD and be so debilitated is worse than taking the chance to damage your liver, brain or whatever. It seems to me that there is this notion in critics that you need to preserve your live and brain and what not for future use.

Which is a fair goal. But is it a worthy goal, when in the meantime, as you live your life when you need the assistance of the drug when it matters the most, you preserve your future body by sacrificing the positive results you may have in the here and now?

What is so important about your future liver that you will have a terrible life? At what point would you start taking a potentially harmful medicine? At age 25? 35? After 40? But what wasted years do you leave behind, where your life is a continues struggle for concentration, attention, focus, clarity? Dealing with all the myriad issues that branch of from it, at work, in relationships, in your family and with friends?

If I get liver failure at 75, so be it. In saying that I want to convey the notion that having this disorder requires one to take responsibility for it and accept the bad hand you've been dealt in life. So you get bodily issues later in life perchance. But I would not sacrifice my whole life going without it out of fear of e.g. liver failire.

And certainly not with 1 to 50.000 chance, as per a 2005 UK study.

 

[Cherry Cola]

But over-diagnosis ALSO doesn't negate the fact the condition is real. Is your attitude typical in Sweden, I wonder? Are there more and more people getting this dx?

I have problems with the application of the word nootropic. That implies a neurotypical person that takes a 'smart drug' to get a boost, or enhanced capabilities.

ADHD medication is not used as such. It is not applied to go from a baseline operation to an enhanced operation, but to go from a sub-par operation to a baseline operation or neurotypical standard.

Therefore, ADHD medication, such as methylfenidate, cannot be considered nootropics for people with ADHD and is therefore rightfully labeled a 'medication', not a nootropic.

I was attempting sarcasm with my last post, it is as you say. Though I disagree about ADHD meds not being nootropics for those with ADHD, I see what you mean but one could as well say that people with ADHD have a lower baseline ability. I would also wager that the definition of nootropic includes any increase in mental performance.

Though... Does that mean that alcohol is a nootropic when administered to those suffering withdrawal syndrome?

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Doesn't Strattera also have sideeffects? And what about the long term use? Strattera affects the liver and may damage it used long term. 1:50.000 chance.

It can cause suicidal thoughts. Also, quick to anger and irritation.

I don'think it is fair to elevate one particular medicine above another.

Spoiler

I also always have this idea that people worry a lot, rightfully so - believe me, I lived it - about the sideefects yet forget that the need for it outweighs the risks.

To live with ADHD and be so debilitated is worse than taking the chance to damage your liver, brain or whatever. It seems to me that there is this notion in critics that you need to preserve your live and brain and what not for future use.

Which is a fair goal. But is it a worthy goal, when in the meantime, as you live your life when you need the assistance of the drug when it matters the most, you preserve your future body by sacrificing the positive results you may have in the here and now?

What is so important about your future liver that you will have a terrible life? At what point would you start taking a potentially harmful medicine? At age 25? 35? After 40? But what wasted years do you leave behind, where your life is a continues struggle for concentration, attention, focus, clarity? Dealing with all the myriad issues that branch of from it, at work, in relationships, in your family and with friends?

If I get liver failure at 75, so be it. In saying that I want to convey the notion that having this disorder requires one to take responsibility for it and accept the bad hand you've been dealt in life. So you get bodily issues later in life perchance. But I would not sacrifice my whole life going without it out of fear of e.g. liver failire.

And certainly not with 1 to 50.000 chance, as per a 2005 UK study.

Never said it was perfect. If Strattera fails, there's about 20 other stimulant combos to switch to if he's still feeling the urge to medicate.

Personally, I'll take potential liver damage over almost certain brain damage and altered development caused by stimulants.

Spoiler

Spoiler

http://www.mdpi.com/2076-3425/2/3/375/pdf (<-direct .pdf download)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21812875
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21277315
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2891948/
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/19/21/9579
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14686913
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14579420
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/20/6/2332.full
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/17/21/8491
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15464124
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18675281
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15652869
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15464125
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14675796

 

[Cherry Cola]

Why isn't modafinil being used to tread add that's what I wonder...

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

Why isn't modafinil being used to tread add that's what I wonder...

It is, but... From the modafinil wiki article:

Approval for ADHD in children was rejected in 2006 due primarily to two cases of skin rash, one severe, suspected to have been erythema multiforme or Stevens–Johnson syndrome, among 933 subjects receiving the drug.[10][11][12][13]

Largest population with ADHD diagnoses? The children...

 

[Cherry Cola]

What the fuck just let the kids start out with lower doses, why the hell should a ton of kids have to fuck their brains up with methylphenidate for no reason because a handful happen to be allergic towards modafinil?

Sure I'm on methylphenidate too, but I didn't start poppin til I was me grown an adult, not like it can fuck my brain like it can the brains of little people, and besides I don't intend to be on it for the rest of my life.

They need to start pumping people with modafinil, seriously. My doctor didn't even know what it was, I will never get my hands on it unless the states state that it's the thing.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

You can order it online... from... certain... places... Maybe.

 

[Ex-User (9086)]

You can make it at home, maybe too, or you can accidentally make it and destroy it because you accidentally made it.

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

You can make it at home, maybe too, or you can accidentally make it and destroy it because you accidentally made it.

That's the spirit!

​

 

[Pizzabeak]

Not all drugs. Even now you have DMT in your brain, which is dimethyltriptamine, so in fact you have an illegal substance in your blood. It is the most harmless drugs, because it is metabolized so fast, the trip takes mere minutes.
Other substances have no harmful effects, like heroine in pure form and psilocybine, which is very closely related to brain chemistry. There are others. I don't have a list ready.

Just because it's metabolized so fast doesn't mean it's one of the most harmless drugs. Physically I suppose, it's not on the level of meth addiction for example. MAO inhibitors, of course, could prolong the trip into hours; is it still the same? Some people might be disturbed in either case and not wish to try it again, claiming some slight mental damage. Sure, their skin cells weren't eaten or they didn't get holes in their brain so to speak but they could still have been frightened and overwhelmed, mentally scarred for some amount of time.

Plus a total trip, depending on method of ingestion as well, can take up to 30-90 minutes total, with effects obviously waning at a rate. Still, after the heavy stuff is gone there are still remnants for the remainder, it'll take like 30-90 minutes total to be completely back. It's not like it just takes 10 minutes and then you're regular again.

And there's 5 hydroxy dmt (bufotenine) which people can die from. A too large dose kills, and it's still "dmt", granted not the ideal structure people tend to be interested in. I think there was something about sheep dying from eating a human sized dose of dmt containing grass, wheareas in humans it's more or less harmless.

But over-diagnosis ALSO doesn't negate the fact the condition is real. Is your attitude typical in Sweden, I wonder? Are there more and more people getting this dx?

I have problems with the application of the word nootropic. That implies a neurotypical person that takes a 'smart drug' to get a boost, or enhanced capabilities.

ADHD medication is not used as such. It is not applied to go from a baseline operation to an enhanced operation, but to go from a sub-par operation to a baseline operation or neurotypical standard.

Therefore, ADHD medication, such as methylfenidate, cannot be considered nootropics for people with ADHD and is therefore rightfully labeled a 'medication', not a nootropic.

For those people the "sub par" is the standard, and the medication takes them to enhanced operation in every sense of the words. The baseline spectrum spans that far, the limit being somewhere near where 'enhanced operation' can begin. ... Could someone's enhanced state be equivalent to another person's default condition?

 

[Duxwing]

I once had ADD. I took Concerta for a few months, got somewhat angry and hungry, grew a pair of man-boobs, and stopped. My ADD was cured!

-Duxwing

 

[Cherry Cola]

I once had ADD. I took Concerta for a few months, got somewhat angry and hungry, grew a pair of man-boobs, and stopped. My ADD was cured!

-Duxwing

How did you manage to gain weight by taking a medicine which accelerates your metabolism and decreases hunger? :S

 

[Ex-User (5841)]

I once had ADD. I took Concerta for a few months, got somewhat angry and hungry, grew a pair of man-boobs, and stopped. My ADD was cured!

-Duxwing

How did you manage to gain weight by taking a medicine which accelerates your metabolism and decreases hunger? :S

^This. Risperdal at the same time? If so, that's probably the source of the boobage.

 

[Duxwing]

^This. Risperdal at the same time? If so, that's probably the source of the boobage.

Ah, right! I forgot I was on that, too.

-Duxwing

 

[Kuu]

They need to start pumping people with modafinil, seriously. My doctor didn't even know what it was, I will never get my hands on it unless the states state that it's the thing.

+1 for modafinil

Like THD said you could get it from... places, if one were so inclined.

Actually where I live it's not really controlled as far as I noticed, I've bought it off the counter about a dozen times with no prescription and no questions asked (then again I live in the land of lawlessness). I still have some lying about, in fact. If only I had discovered that stuff sooner...

Wether cooperbrown needs it or wants some enhancement, I'd say it's worth investigating.

 

[Variform]

I was attempting sarcasm with my last post, it is as you say. Though I disagree about ADHD meds not being nootropics for those with ADHD, I see what you mean but one could as well say that people with ADHD have a lower baseline ability. I would also wager that the definition of nootropic includes any increase in mental performance.

Though... Does that mean that alcohol is a nootropic when administered to those suffering withdrawal syndrome?

Well, I have been on a mailing list for nootropics back in the 90's and I think we need to sort out our definitions then. They are enhancers for memory, neuro-enhancers, cognitive and intelligence enhancers.

Neurotypical means when a person has no deficiencies. It is the control group in scientific studies. No impairments.

ADHD people have an impairment. So in a way, taking a medicine that improves their functioning, can be considered a nootropic because it inf act 'enhances' the impaired ability to a neurotypical baseline or standard.

But the word is not rightly applied because medicine is medicine because it makes something function better, from a position of impairment. Nootropics are a separate group of substances, that may be medicines, but are set aside from medicines to enhance a baseline operation or functioning to a higher level, meaning above neurotypical.


Alcohol is never a nootropic because it enhances nothing, rather, it lowers functioning below the baselines neurotypical functioning. Apart from the fact that alcohol is a very serious poison to humans, the working rather diminishes the brain instead of boosting it.

Things like becoming a dick after using alcohol, loose lipped and get tunnel vision and from there on, liver failure and coma I would not describe as a result from a 'smart drug'.

Also, you put its use against withdrawal of the same substance, alcohol. I don't see the reasoning here? So a heroine addict in withdrawal stages of his addiction, when given heroine, that heroine would be a nootropic? I don't think so! His functioning is lowered. Anything to get back to baseline, save the reason of the impairment, will be medication and any functioning improved after reaching neurotypical status, might be a nootropic.

Even with medication an ADHD sufferer may stay below par. E.g. when I would take methylfenidate, I would benefit only for those hours it is active in my body, then it is metabolized and gone and I revert back to my sub-par state. For me to reach neurotypical functioning I would need to permeate myself constantly, so methylfenidate that works for 6 to 8 hours or maybe Strattera. Which works like lithium, you need a blood saturation that builds up over two weeks or so.