Absolute Truth

[The Void]

Whatever we percieve directly is always true in some sense.
even a dream or matrix is true.
It does not matter if this keyboard I am using is just electric signal interpreted by brain, or some probability wave observed as a keyboard, but it is still true, it is still something.
If I play a virtual reality game, it does not means the game is false, game is true but as a game.
And this are asbolutely true.
Even if only I am subjectively percieving it, It is then absolutely true that it is my subjective perception.

Spoiler

I don't know if I can get my point accross though, I am not that great of a communicator.

But the problem appears when we start to interpret our perceptions, because most of the time we misinterpret and produce abstract meaningless craps.
From observation, we make up lots of stories to make sense of stuffs, and religions, morality and bla bla and things can go too far away from the observed.
Dream is a truth but with the identity 'dream'.
But we can always potentially misidentify stuff and do things.
Also languages and all that are representations. If we deal with representations, we are just focusing on fingers pointing to the moon not the moon itself.
Most of the time thats what we are doing, living in representations, in abstract worlds made with languages, and stuff, not in the truth.
Dream, reality, where to draw the line, what to do? Who cares?

SO my point is when you just 'be', with complete mental silence, without interpreting anything as anything, : This pure form of perception: Is enlightenment or seeing things as they 'are', and that is the absolute truth. Just the present moment.

As soon as we come to languages and definitions and start intepreting, we go farther from truth. (so by this logic even this post is impure)

Unity, separation, duality, non duality, all true, all false..both and neither.

But the world will not work in this way.

So we set up a conventional system of representation so that everyone can communicate, and bore each other through blabbing and progress or congress

Spoiler

(Con opposite of pro ....) (just a joke, I am out of politics)

SO our best bet is creating a model as close to the observed and as generally applicable as possible, with prediction capabilities, and all that............

And thats what science, philosophy...religions... all try to do in one way or the other.

And then whatever, I am not interested anymore to write.

 

[The Void]

Nothing is true, Everything is permitted.

 

[QuickTwist]

So your saying that if someone believes the sky is red all the time this is an absolute truth for them? I don't see how your argument makes sense.

 

[Vrecknidj]

If I walk into a room and say "It seems cold in here to me," and, in fact, it does seem cold in the room to me, then, yeah, that's true. And, someone else could walk in and say "It seems warm in here to me," and that person is also right.

If I walk into a room and say "It's 15 degrees Celsius in here," whether I'm right or not depends upon empirical verification (because my claim is that sort of claim).

If I walk into a room and say "The purpose of this room is that it's a nursery for my baby," then whether I'm right or not depends upon all kinds of factors, some of which are empirical, some of which are tied up with teleological notions of mine, etc.

A dozen other statements could follow here.

There are relationships between perception and truth, but, much varies.

 

[Black Rose]

Henri Bergson defined metaphysics as the science that dispenses with symbols to grasp the absolute.[1] Hence metaphysics involves an inversion of the habitual modes of thought and is in need of its own method, which he identified as intuition.

Henri Bergson defined intuition as a simple, indivisible experience of sympathy through which one is moved into the inner being of an object to grasp what is unique and ineffable within it. The absolute that is grasped is always perfect in the sense that it is perfectly what it is, and infinite in the sense that it can be grasped as a whole through a simple, indivisible act of intuition, yet lends itself to boundless enumeration when analysed.

 

[The Void]

So your saying that if someone believes the sky is red all the time this is an absolute truth for them? I don't see how your argument makes sense.

I said the opposite.
Red is just the name.
It depends on what convention one uses.
I said absolute truth is the perception without interpretetion.
As soon as one interprets something as red, and starting to believe in it, or misinterpreting stuff (w.r.t to the convention that the one oneself use), one is starting to deal in labels, and representations.
And then things go too far and abstract in some religions and stuff.
I am saying all that are impure or merely subjective truth.
The absolute truth is = perception - interpretation.
Following the same logic whatever I said is not absolutely true.

 

[The Void]

If I walk into a room and say "It seems cold in here to me," and, in fact, it does seem cold in the room to me, then, yeah, that's true. And, someone else could walk in and say "It seems warm in here to me," and that person is also right.

If I walk into a room and say "It's 15 degrees Celsius in here," whether I'm right or not depends upon empirical verification (because my claim is that sort of claim).

If I walk into a room and say "The purpose of this room is that it's a nursery for my baby," then whether I'm right or not depends upon all kinds of factors, some of which are empirical, some of which are tied up with teleological notions of mine, etc.

A dozen other statements could follow here.

There are relationships between perception and truth, but, much varies.

in what basis you say cold.
In what basis you define cold?
You can't.
It is a feeling. A qualia.
You use a model (a convention, be it the language, religion or science) to compare what you percieve( without interpreting) and then soon your mind starts to interpret.

But remember when you interpret you interpret beased on words and language, based on some fragile convention. A alien may use the word red to classify what we call blue. Those are labels. Sometimes we go too far and make stupid stories out of what we percieve directly (before interpreting).

Lots of time misinterpretion occurs.
Belief systems distorts perceptions.
And lots of stuff can happen.

So you see things as they are only when you just see... in pure mental silence.

 

[The Void]

Even in a dream, anything you percieve is something, it is some happening, somehow it is happening somewhere (perhaps within your mind), it is absolutely true (so what that only you may be experiencing it? It is something, an experience, i until you misjudge the experience. Like if you are in a dream, and you interpret it as reality based on the mainstream convention, then you misinterpreted it based on your mainstream convention and now when you think all the time based on the word 'reality', and interpreting everything based on your subjective misinterpretetion, you live in a world of falsehoods.

When you just 'be' in silence without trying to categorize and judge everything (all thoughts are judgements of some sort), you live in the absolute or atleast out of error because you are not even judging or doing any maths.

 

[The Void]

Henri Bergson defined metaphysics as the science that dispenses with symbols to grasp the absolute.[1] Hence metaphysics involves an inversion of the habitual modes of thought and is in need of its own method, which he identified as intuition.

Henri Bergson defined intuition as a simple, indivisible experience of sympathy through which one is moved into the inner being of an object to grasp what is unique and ineffable within it. The absolute that is grasped is always perfect in the sense that it is perfectly what it is, and infinite in the sense that it can be grasped as a whole through a simple, indivisible act of intuition, yet lends itself to boundless enumeration when analysed.

But since that world will stop spinning if we stop judging and thinking and just 'be', a convention or model is needed for communication and progress or congress.
And that is where science, pseudoscience, religions, and all comes in.

Though they can be always error prone, or potentially impure, our only bet is to make some model as close to the world as possible.

So metaphysics is also trying to do just that.

But even intuition can be error prone. You feel then you suddenly judge, it can just and as soon as you judge an experience or anything, we turn error prone.

Suddenly you intuitively felt intense and you wake up, and claim that this is a dream. And when I asked them to differentiate and define between dream and reality and all that and about my past dream where I woke up thousands of times in a dream thinking now I woke up in reality but I was dreaming the whole time, and all the things when the intuitive feelings decieve.

Sometimes you see a guy and you intuitively feel like he is bad.
But that may be some predujice based judgement,
tHat may be just because some other guy looking like that guy treated you badly.

Intuition like feelinsg can decieve all the time.

Though there may be some real intuition, that is true or something.
But how to know? How to distingusih?

I am just saying there is no real perfect way to judge\interpret. And my last sentence is a judgement of judgement it is also potentially misjudgement or error prone or just subjective opinion.

We enter into the world of subjective abstraction as soon as we start interpreting.

Our best bet is to make a concrete conventional model with language, ways, and stuff...

But it will be no fun if everyone use the same model, and everyone do use different types of models and belief systems, and from that, diversity and variation arise.

 

[Black Rose]

Behind the symbols is meaning only in yourself. We are all monads that do not know we are monads because of the fluidity we feel when we assign meaning to those symbols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monadology

 

[The Void]

Behind the symbols is meaning only in yourself. We are all monads that do not know we are monads because of the fluidity we feel when we assign meaning to those symbols.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monadology

Meaning. what is meaning? What is the meaning of meaning?
When we give meaning to symbol, we just use more symbols most of the timee.
But in the end all symbols and words are direct or indirect representations derived from some qualia or direct experience which has no intrinsic meaning or meaninglessnes or may be have or whatever, but we give them meaning, meaninglessness and everything after interpreting and attaching our symbols for them.

 

[The Void]

Meaning. what is meaning? What is the meaning of meaning?
When we give meaning to symbol, we just use more symbols most of the timee.
But in the end all symbols and words are direct or indirect representations derived from some qualia or direct experience which has no intrinsic meaning or meaninglessnes or may be have or whatever, but we give them meaning, meaninglessness and everything after interpreting and attaching our symbols for them.

Oh my god, I just exposed the meaning of life to myself.
The meaning of life is hidden in the meaning of meaning.
When you understand the meaning of meaning you understand the meaning of life.

 

[Goku]

Oh my god, I just exposed the meaning of life to myself.
The meaning of life is hidden in the meaning of meaning.
When you understand the meaning of meaning you understand the meaning of life.

The meaning of meaning? You just broke my brain

 

[Black Rose]

Justice or Peace is not a qualia its an abstract concept that has meaning apart from concrete symbols which are only singular instances but direct intentionality which can be directed toward what is causal efficacy. Particular vs Universal.

 

[The Void]

Justice or Peace is not a qualia its an abstract concept that has meaning apart from concrete symbols which are only singular instances but direct intentionality which can be directed toward what is causal efficacy. Particular vs Universal.

All symbols and concepts are directly or inderictly derived from the observed reality.
Meaning is nothing but that which is represented through a symbol.
When someone asks what a symbol means, one is just asking what it is representing.

Peace is an abstract concept but it represents a state of mind.
Justice is a concept representing a certain way or method...it depends on the user of the concept.