A story of Fe vs. Fi

[briangriffin32]

Hi all,

I'm going to try to avoid demonizing Fe. Instead I'll give an illustration drawn from a real life story involving me: an INTP, someone else with strong Fe, and an ESFP with Fi. Sorry if this seems long, but I'll try to keep this as succinct as possible:

A few months ago a joined a track club. Before I joined, I told the coach (strong Fe) that I was running at around 8 MPH on my own, which he said was kind of at the slower end, but fast enough to run with the group.

For the first month or so, he usually paired me up with someone who could run the same speed as I did. If he couldn't find one, he'd ask me to run with someone faster and see how long I could keep up with them, since that's the only way I could run faster.

There was an ESFP there that was one of the faster runners. Sometimes he'd chat with me during warmups and ask me how I thought of the group etc. Despite the fact that he could run circles around me, he believed in my potential. I once told him that my goal was to run a 10K in under 40 minutes (a 9.5 MPH pace). He said "I've seen you run. You could definitely do that...no problem".

Shortly after the first month of training, my brother died. I wasn't feeling well, so I told the coach about it, and that I'd drop out of participating in a 10K race he signed me up for. I returned to the club sporadically for a month after that, but I didn't feel like being around people so I decided to run on my own. I was a lot shier, and tried my best to avoid others around the club.

Fortunately the ESFP didn't give up on me. He approached me a couple times when I must have seemed grumpy and didn't feel like talking to anyone. He asked me how I was doing etc, which made me feel better. He even stayed with me once when I had a panic attack after a run, and wouldn't leave until I was alright. He encouraged me to run with the group again when I was feeling better.

When I was feeling better, I noticed that the coach was giving me the cold shoulder. I asked him if I did something wrong, and he muttered something that I had been acting "very unapproachable".

So I continued running on my own until I found I was running at a 9 MPH pace (which was the average pace of runners at the club). I even kept logs of my training days and informed the coach of how well I was doing. When I called him once and said I was ready to run with the group again, he said "I don't know if I can find someone that slow for you to run with."

I didn't show to him that I was angry, but I really was. I mean I increased my speed by 1.5 MPH in a month, which was a lot. He never had problems finding me someone to run with when I was a lot slower. It seemed like a slight because he thought I was being rude for not talking to people, when I specifically told him that I was grieving the loss of a close family member.

Again, not to demonize Fe but they seem overly concerned about the group atmosphere. And even when they don't seem to get any concrete feedback from the group, they seem to make assumptions based on how they themselves feel towards the potentially offending party.

I mean the ESFP encouraged me to run with the group, and congratulated my progress and he is the most popular runner there. Whenever I ask the Fe coach if the group has expressed any problems with the way I was acting, he just avoids the issue.

In a nutshell it seems that Fe = positive emotional expression above all, Fi = moral ethics above all, doing the right thing even if it risks negative emotion.

The ESFP was so kind towards me in such a depressing time, that I just want to hug him. But I'm still afraid of expressing how I felt about his kind actions, in case I get too emotional and embarrass him.

Damn, despite my unfeeling INTP ways, I really find myself drawn towards Fi types sometimes. I guess that's why Socionics says that Fi = INTP's hidden agenda.

Again, sorry for the long story. But has anyone had any similar experiences with Fe's and Fi's?

 

[intpz]

If INTPs are Fe types... Well, I'm real grumpy all the time, I'm rarely positive or optimistic about anything. I look at things realistically, and I talk about them realistically (unless of course I've another agenda), independent of the consequences (negative reactions), which would mean Fi instead, according to you description. Realism is "the right thing" according to me, and in fact, overly optimistic or overly pessimistic people annoy me.

 

[nedenom]

I just have to say your couch is an immature asshole for treating you like that, given the fact that he was aware of your personal tragedy. And I think you should express your gratitude to the ESFP in some way, it will help you develop your own Fe.

 

[intpz]

Obviously the coach doesn't give a shit and respects rules a lot, which would rate him as ST, and since he's a couch, I'd say he should be ESTJ. I'd hate him.

 

[briangriffin32]

I just have to say your couch is an immature asshole for treating you like that, given the fact that he was aware of your personal tragedy. And I think you should express your gratitude to the ESFP in some way, it will help you develop your own Fe.

It may be a little more nuanced than that. The problem with the coach is that he's not one to really "push" the newbies that hard. It's always "just do what you can". Saying that he couldn't find anyone in the group to run with is just his way of being patronizing. He's trying to tell me: "don't go crazy trying to catch up so soon after you were such a wreck over your brother's death".

As for the ESFP, my feelings towards him are a bit more complicated. If I expressed my gratitude, I'd like to go briefly into specifics about what he did and what it meant, without being gushy or emotional. It beats a "thanks for being cool" because he may not be consciously aware of the impact re: what he did himself. With someone like him, I get the hunch he did it just on instinct.

However, I'd have to get the ESFP alone. If I told him in front of others, he might feel a little embarrassed. Also, he's good in person, but not always great at responding to e-mails, so if I let him know in writing I might be waiting a long time in anguish for a response.

Plus, yeah I'm kind of attracted to the ESFP. We're both openly gay but "guy's guy" gay, not effeminate or "flaming" gay. (Not that there's anything wrong about that) In other words, we're both pretty modest about it.

Hence, I don't want to seem like I'm coming on strong, especially in front of others at the club who might tease him for it. He may interpret it as a hit, and my be anxious about rebuffing me after I was in mourning for so long.

I had caught him staring at me a couple times a couple months before, always with this doe-eyed expression and half-smile on his face. The kind of face you'd have if you were looking at a cute puppy. If I looked away, he'd quickly become distracted and start talking to someone.

Also, sometimes we'd talk in the change room or in the lounge area and I noticed that if he was really engaged in what I was saying, he'd encroach closer into my personal space. Sometimes, if I got nervous and backed away he looked a little pissed and would cut the conversation short.

I wasn't sure too much to make of these incidents, as I'm very bad at interpreting "signals". I usually won't respond to "signals" unless someone flirts in a painfully obvious fashion i.e. "You're hot...wanna make out?".

Any thoughts?

 

[nedenom]

Maybe I misunderstood the couch situation, since you said he was giving you a cold shoulder I just thought he was a dick. I agree that you should tell the ESFP alone, in front of others would probably just be weird. From what you describe, I think he is attracted to you in some way or another. Being an INTP, you are probably modest about signals to begin with, so if you notice some (by intuition), chances are good that you are right.

 

[briangriffin32]

Maybe I misunderstood the couch situation, since you said he was giving you a cold shoulder I just thought he was a dick. I agree that you should tell the ESFP alone, in front of others would probably just be weird. From what you describe, I think he is attracted to you in some way or another. Being an INTP, you are probably modest about signals to begin with, so if you notice some (by intuition), chances are good that you are right.

Sounds like a plan.

Hopefully this ESFP isn't too influenced by what one Fe coach thinks.

As an INTP I always pride myself on keeping a cool head. However, my pet peeve is when someone (especially a Fe) will accuse me of being "unapproachable", "brooding" or, in one previous case, "too emotional" for seeming quiet and apart from the group.

I mean what does "unapproachable" even mean? By my definition, that would mean I implied to anyone who tried approaching me to "F***K off". The only person who has tried to approach me is this ESFP gentleman. And although I tried to ignore him for a while, I eventually gave in to his attempts to engage me.

And I know that with what I've been going through I've been feeling emotional, although it's hard to tell if I've been showing it.

From what I've read, inferior Fe with INTPS is a tricky thing. Since it's so weak, sometimes it can come out in one big outburst if it's been repressed for too long.

In my opinion, that's why it's good to have someone more confident with feeling, preferably someone smart with strong Fi to make us comfortable, without demagoguing us for not being filled with glee whenever we're in a crowd, like a Fe instantly would.

Would anyone else here agree?