A Rake of Weirdos (or the social game)

[sagewolf]

Basically, I'm wondering how we all deal with interacting with people on a daily basis and the social image we try to generate. Do other people think you're weird? Do you downplay it or exaggerate it? Do you just not bother?

When I started in secondary school, I didn't have many friends (I still don't, actually) and I remember thinking that apparently popularity was Good, and why wasn't I Good, in that case. I went to a lot of effort to try and be popular, and I had no idea why it wasn't working. Then we moved again, and I was in a new school. I found new friends, who were really cool and, honestly speaking, a little odd, but everybody still liked them. So I tried being outgoing and funny like them... another train wreck.

Eventually I got sick of it and stopped caring. So I decided that whoever I was, I was, whether people liked me or not, and if I was weird, then so be it. I actually became somewhat proud of being weird, and every now and then I'll just say whatever's on my mind to one of my friends. Just to freak them out. Being me's more fun. (It has since occurred to me that I would not have liked popularity if I had achieved it anyway.) My friends are the people who put up with me. There are a surprising number of them.

 

[NoID10ts]

I'm even a weirdo here among weirdos.


I was never popular in school. I never wore fashionable clothes, because I prefer comfort. I was never interested in the popular styles of the day or the latest fads. I was definitely the weirdo in school. In time, I learned that life was just easier if I conformed to the conventional. Everyone liked me better, my parents were prouder of me, my wife even had an easier time getting along with me.

But now I find it harder to conform. I just can't stomach it anymore. I feel like I must be authentic, but the authentic me has been hidden for so long that no one recognizes it as the real me. They think it is an imposter, and that this is just a phase, not recognizing that socially acceptable me, was the phase. I'm not getting any younger and I just can't spend my life plaing games.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i certainly think that you embrace your inner weirdo, NoID10t's.

what you said resonates with me very much (especially not being popular or caring about having the best clothes and shit during school). i'm not sure if there is really one "authentic" me though. i act differently at work then i do at home, i act differently in social situations then i do by myself and i act differently online then i do offline (mainly, online i'm much more extroverted) but i wouldn't say any of them are less me, they're just different facets of me.

of course, i enjoy being certain facets of me more then i enjoy being other facets (i'd rather be alone then in a social situation).

 

[eudemonia]

I've been through three periods in my life when I've shed my 'false self'. On all those occasions it has been both painful and a profound relief. On all those occasions I have had the support of my husband (we've been together for a long time!) which makes it a lot easier. What amazes me is that each time I shed a layer and feel, this is the real me, I eventually found that what I thought was the real me was just another layer. Its exhausting but a liberating process and I wish I had discovered my truer self earlier in my life. You cannot sustain this false self forever - something has to give.

 

[NoID10ts]

My pastor (that sounds strange to say for an atheist) is always saying that "Your true self is who you are in the dark" or something like that.

Any merit to this?

 

[Agent Intellect]

My pastor (that sounds strange to say for an atheist) is always saying that "Your true self is who you are in the dark" or something like that.

Any merit to this?

i'd say thats true for an introvert. extroverts are probably more their true selves in social situations.

 

[fullerene]

mm... the extroverts that I've heard talk in their lonely moments don't even know which side is their true self.


...I think what your pastor said is oversimplified. What you are in the dark is definitely you... but suppose you were intensely angry at everyone, but decided to only let it out when you were alone. Certainly you're an angry person... but doesn't your commitment not to hurt anyone in your anger also say something about the real you? To drop it down to "you're only yourself in the dark" makes it sound like there's no difference between someone who goes on a school shooting, and someone who holds back their anger in public because they don't want to hurt the people they hate. I feel like motives are a much better judge of who you actually are.

 

[eudemonia]

This is a really interesting conversation! I've got to go however - to an 80th birthday party where much alcohol is due to be consumed!

There is something zen like in this journey but it also resonates with some sayings from Christ ie. Mathew 16:24-25 and Mathew 18:3. Its about denying who you think you are and becoming like children. Letting go of all the desires you accumulate throughout your adolescence and adulthood - desires to fit in, be liked, be successful, be respected, be admired, be powerful, be independent, be useful, be remembered - everything. Having no desires is where you'll find the real you. What desires do you have? What voices do those desires use to speak to you and control you? Out of all the voices in your head, which one is truly you? Probably the one you most fear to acknowledge....? Maybe that's what your pastor means when he says its who you are in the dark.

 

[fullerene]

Before this gets too off-topic, I'd better respond to the OP before he gets ticked off at the thread-jacking:

I'm certainly considered weird, by just about everyone. When I was in high school my friends joked about whether I was a computer or not, because they'd never seen anything phase me, joking about whether I got the blue-screen error or not. In college I got some crap for all the ridiculous things I would say in my sleep (I must have been an entertaining roommate ), staring at blank walls or sitting, wide awake, in dark rooms while things ran through my head, and eating off by myself rather than with everyone else. It didn't help when I decided, on a few random occasions, that I just didn't feel like wearing shoes and walked around the city barefoot instead. I would argue that I don't exaggerate or downplay it and just don't care... but I get the feeling that other people think I exaggerate it sometimes. Truly I'm not sure of my subconscious motivations, but I don't consciously do either.

I kind of feel like you do, that my friends are the people who put up with me. I've been slowly pushing away from everyone this year, quite a bit, which I think is hurting some feelings... but I'm constantly dying for time alone, which is impossible to come by in a city. I think it's much better, though, to live neutrally towards people and say what's on your mind than any other alternative... either hiding your thoughts for--well, I can't think of any good reason to do that--or wasting all your energy acting like someone you're not. At least this way there's a much better chance of attracting the attention of other people who would make truly good friends with you, rather than making them think you're some other normal person.

 

[eudemonia]

Basically, I'm wondering how we all deal with interacting with people on a daily basis and the social image we try to generate. Do other people think you're weird? Do you downplay it or exaggerate it? Do you just not bother?

True, yes back to the topic.

I had a real problem fitting in at school. Basically the school was a dump and was full of kids who didn't give a damn about learning. I came from a working class background but didn't ever feel like the others in the school. So I separated myself from everyone and became a complete isolated mess. But I couldn't mix with them anyway as I was too different from everyone. At university it was pretty much the same; everyone there was from very upper class backgrounds and I hated them and everthing they stood for! I met my husband at uni and we've been together ever since.

I think I have gained my sanity via my relationship with him. I just tell him everything and confide in him totally. Without him, I suspect I would have gone mad.

I think over the years I have not compromised and never tried to fit in (I had other drivers that pushed me off beam) but there are costs to that and they include loneliness. The benefits are that I have now collected a group of friends who know me as I am and accept me as such. Still, most of them don't know the me who is on this forum - which is probably me at my most open and extrovert. Just speaking as the thoughts come into my head - what a rush!

I think you have to be yourself but its a lot easier if you are in an environment where there are at least some people whose values are similar to your own.

 

[fullerene]

fuck... I do need to find myself a girl, then. I'm never gonna let that happen, though. unless.....

...you have a daughter, don't you nia?

 

[Agent Intellect]

best bet is to find someone even more weird then you are. it works out well for me.

 

[Chronomar]

Many times I am forced to repeat what I've just said in many different ways for other people to understand it. Maybe I have poor communication skills, maybe my brain runs on a different language. All I know is it really is annoying when I write analytical english papers and the teacher says something to the effect that, "You have a really insightful and well done argument, but you made this infinantly more complicated than it had to be... A-"

I think that they're just annoyed at having to read a 6 page analysis of one piece of symbolism in a short story. I don't know, maybe I would be too, but if they can't take it, then they shouldn't assign english papers to me. Then we would all be happy, .

 

[Fordy]

I went to high school with a fair few friends, but after a while most of us drifted apart and, whilst still staying friendly with each other, simply because we just became different people. It took me quite a while to find new friends.

At high school there were all these "social cliques" and I didn't really feel at ease in any of them. I often seemed to make good friends with a few people from each sort of group - so I found it hard to hang around with them because I never felt like changing how I acted purely to fit in around their friends.

Eventually I found a group of friends that more than accepted me for who I am, though I tried to stay friends with as many people as I could (not too many, but enough). I never felt like I could host a large social get together, because if you put all my friends in a room there'd be some huge clashes.

I'm always myself. I've seen people change their looks and the way they act purely to conform and it annoys me greatly. If people won't accept you for who are than they aren't your friend, and it would be living a lie to act around them just to fit in. I never cared for being popular. I'd much rather have a few close friends than many friends who I wasn't so close with (though at times in my life, I have seemed to have few friends who I weren't very close too).

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

In college I got some crap for all the ridiculous things I would say in my sleep (I must have been an entertaining roommate ), staring at blank walls or sitting, wide awake, in dark rooms while things ran through my head, and eating off by myself rather than with everyone else. It didn't help when I decided, on a few random occasions, that I just didn't feel like wearing shoes and walked around the city barefoot instead. I would argue that I don't exaggerate or downplay it and just don't care... but I get the feeling that other people think I exaggerate it sometimes. Truly I'm not sure of my subconscious motivations, but I don't consciously do either.

Walking around barefoot is awesome. I wish it wasn't a "weird" thing to do in America. (One of the great reasons to go swimming: social acceptance for walking around barefoot.)

 

[INTPINFP]

Walking around barefoot is awesome. I wish it wasn't a "weird" thing to do in America. (One of the great reasons to go swimming: social acceptance for walking around barefoot.)

i advise you not to do so unless you wish to bestow upon yourself tapeworms or such similarly related ailment

 

[fullerene]

BS. Worms come from poorer countries with bad sewage management. The US used to have that problem in the South, but they're caught up now so that it's safe. I would not, however, do it somewhere like Africa or the Dominican Republic (when I visited).

I've been through all the evidence for why I think barefoot is much better for you twice already in the last 16 hours or so, so I don't feel like doing it again... but every quick one-liner argument I've heard of has a quick one-liner argument back... usually with quite better reasoning behind it. The only "unbalanced" reason to wear shoes that I've seen (unless you're in a really cold climate) is for social acceptance.

 

[INTPINFP]

Well, I don't think most people give a that much of a damn whether or not you wear shoes, lol. But I wouldn't ever want to walk into a mc-donalds barefoot. And wearing shoes protects from insects, poop, sharp objects like glass, nails, etc. Now, I have a question to ask: Do shoes "leech" into your feet?

 

[fullerene]

I feel like if you wanted to be consistent, you may as well wear gloves every time you read a book. You don't want to give yourself a paper-cut, after all, do you? ....or you could just watch where you're stepping, and be careful turning pages. It really doesn't take as much energy as you'd think.

 

[INTPINFP]

I feel like if you wanted to be consistent, you may as well wear gloves every time you read a book. You don't want to give yourself a paper-cut, after all, do you? ....or you could just watch where you're stepping, and be careful turning pages. It really doesn't take as much energy as you'd think.

I think a paper cut is much less serious than tapeworms or a foot amputation. But, be my guest, walk through the grass barefoot-though I feel it is my duty to warn you that glass is especially difficult to spot underneath grass.

 

[fullerene]

lol, you sound like my mother. You'd never get your foot amputated unless you're diabetic (in which case I would not recommend barefoot walking), and tapeworms (assuming you do manage to pick them up, somehow) are quite easily cured.

Also, you never really realize how tough your feet are until you do it for a while. When I first started, I could barely walk half a mile at a time... then that progressed to running a mile or two at a time, then needing a full day to recover. I got some blisters at first, but then they settled down and left my skin tough... but not calloused. It was really weird, but cool feeling. Anyway, after that I went running through the forest, with all the sticks and rocks and whatnot, and didn't have any problem at all.

If our feet were really not equipped to handle walking and running barefoot, natural selection would have picked us off millennia ago.

 

[eudemonia]

fuck... I do need to find myself a girl, then. I'm never gonna let that happen, though. unless.....

...you have a daughter, don't you nia?

Yeah, Cryptonia, are you a lion tamer?

 

[fullerene]

haha well I'm not opposed to breaking out a whip once in a while...

damnit, damnit, sorry... I was just over in the INTPness thread

 

[eudemonia]

As long as you realise that you'd be on the wrong end of it in no time. I haven't yet seen a man/boy get the better of her I'm longing for the day.

 

[fullerene]

"you know, you act just like your mother!"

...you ordered one crushed spirit?

 

[eudemonia]

I'm the crushed spirit!!! You don't know how she talks to me.

Seriously, she is a beautiful, intelligent, witty and extrovert ENTP. She is dangerous and I'm the only one who knows how to manage her - and she needs managing! I've mentioned her antics before. I'm in total awe of her.

 

[fullerene]

ouch... sorry 'bout that. Sometime I'm gonna haveta get the full story from you, if you're willing... cause I know what you've said, but that just makes me wonder what you haven't. I get the feeling my parents' spirits are at the snapping point on my account, too, which makes me wonder even more...

 

[INTPINFP]

jesus christ dood. im not your mother. and i never said we were "meant" to not walk barefoot. Theres a reason for shoes. Glass is not "natural". If you feel like visiting the doctor every day for tapeworms, be my guest. If you want to walk barefoot in the forest, get snake bitten and poop all over your feet, be my guest.

The only thing I'm wondering is do the chemicals shoes are made of "leech" into your feet?

 

[fullerene]

haha ooookay.... you took that way more seriously than I meant it. Sorry about that... I have a problem with not being clear.

and no, as far as I know, no chemicals leech into your feet that way.

edit: well... for the sake of NoID10ts' entertainment... "if you want to cover your foot in a sock and stick it inside of a miniature oven where all the sweat and grime packs up against there all day, be my guest too."

 

[NoID10ts]

**eating popcorn**

This is the most intense "to wear shoes or not to wear shoes" debate I've ever seen!

Carry On!

 

[eudemonia]

another thread hijack. Discipline has gone to pots around here. INTPness has gone wild.

 

[INTPINFP]

haha ooookay.... you took that way more seriously than I meant it. Sorry about that... I have a problem with not being clear.

and no, as far as I know, no chemicals leech into your feet that way.

edit: well... for the sake of NoID10ts' entertainment... "if you want to cover your foot in a sock and stick it inside of a miniature oven where all the sweat and grime packs up against there all day, be my guest too."

I believe the shoe industry has much room for improvement, shoes should have better ventillation. I just think it is infinitely safer to use shoes instead of running barefoot (though, running barefoot has its merits.) Can you put a foot on ONE safety attainable by being barefoot instead of running? (Sweating/ foot fungus doesnt count, you can change your socks lol)

 

[Ermine]

I'm weird and proud of it. And luckily, at each school I've been to, there was always the "odd" clique, so I was just fine. I was still weirder than most of the people in the "odd" clique. I didn't really bother to fit in with anyone else, and fitting in wasn't required in the "odd" clique.

And it's great walking barefoot on concrete in public. It makes me feel freer than everyone else. And that reminds me, that it's weird how many public buildings require shirts and shoes, but they never say anything about pants! Anyone want to experiment on this? jk

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

I just want to point out that books ARE dangerous. I was looking at my friend's very-new mechanical engineer textbook. The first time I turned a page it gave me a cut right between my thumb and my index finger. I was in excruciating pain!


Oh, I also have something of a foot fetish. No, I don't like to lick people's feet. I just think that girls walking around barefoot are incredibly sexy.

 

[INTPINFP]

I'm weird and proud of it. And luckily, at each school I've been to, there was always the "odd" clique, so I was just fine. I was still weirder than most of the people in the "odd" clique. I didn't really bother to fit in with anyone else, and fitting in wasn't required in the "odd" clique.

And it's great walking barefoot on concrete in public. It makes me feel freer than everyone else. And that reminds me, that it's weird how many public buildings require shirts and shoes, but they never say anything about pants! Anyone want to experiment on this? jk

Well back when I was a normal person I didn't look down upon those who trodded barefoot, but they ran the risk of being stepped on. (if your gonna walk barefoot, NEVER do so in a crowded place) but think of all the germs in a macdonalds! fat guys who just went to an outhouse, OUTHOUSE GERMS ARE ON THE FLOOR! would you walk barefoot in an OUTHOUSE??? PORTAPOTIE??? and, what about the fire ants??? tics??? BLACK WIDOW SPIDDERS!!! they aer on the concrete!!!

 

[NoID10ts]

I suspect cryptonia has spectacularly attractive feet and it would be a shame for him to hide them from the world!

 

[INTPINFP]

I suspect cryptonia has spectacularly attractive feet and it would be a shame for him to hide them from the world!

lol

 

[Reverse Transcriptase]

Well back when I was a normal person I didn't look down upon those who trodded barefoot, but they ran the risk of being stepped on. (if your gonna walk barefoot, NEVER do so in a crowded place) but think of all the germs in a macdonalds! fat guys who just went to an outhouse, OUTHOUSE GERMS ARE ON THE FLOOR! would you walk barefoot in an OUTHOUSE??? PORTAPOTIE??? and, what about the fire ants??? tics??? BLACK WIDOW SPIDDERS!!! they aer on the concrete!!!

Well, I hope that none of us are foolhardy enough to eat at McDonalds. Their fries are delicious, but it's not worth it. :-P

I remember hearing a study about the amount of fecal matter around various parts of the house. There was more in the bathroom (and on all surfaces in the bathroom- like your toothbrush!), but there was also a fairly constant trace level of fecal matter all over the house.

 

[INTPINFP]

Well, I hope that none of us are foolhardy enough to eat at McDonalds. Their fries are delicious, but it's not worth it. :-P

I remember hearing a study about the amount of fecal matter around various parts of the house. There was more in the bathroom (and on all surfaces in the bathroom- like your toothbrush!), but there was also a fairly constant trace level of fecal matter all over the house.

lol well at mcdonalds there are visible amounts of such matters

 

[NoID10ts]

That's just flavor!

**Homer Simpson Drooling Voice**

"Ummm, fecal matter"

 

[fullerene]

haha even I'm not that ballsy.

Can you put a foot on ONE safety attainable by being barefoot instead of running?

eh... I'm noot really sure what you mean by this, but if I had to guess, did you mean list one way where you're safer running barefoot than running in shoes?

In that case, I can think of many. For one, your gait is much different in shoes, because their inflexibility alters it. The other is the fact that you're carrying an extra lb or two on your feet for every step, which is just extra work. As a result you consume about 4% more oxygen when running in shoes as opposed to without them. There's also the fact that, when you're in shoes, you're far more likely to overstride--to take such long steps that your running works against you, pushing you back a little bit with each step--which is bad not only for energy conservation and running, but all the "working against you" when you overstride is a hard "pulse" being sent through your legs, stressing out your knees and stuff. Try overstriding barefoot and you can't do it... you just wont. Your gait is much better at self-correcting outside of shoes.

Then I can tell you just from experience, you're using completely different muscle sets running with and without shoes. With them, your hamstrings get tons of work and tend to tire out fast. Without them, it's more in the ankles and around your achilles tendon. This doesn't affect anything short-term, but I'll tell ya, weak ankles are miserable if you twist one. When I was younger I used to twist my ankle by rolling it playing basketball quite a bit, and the damn injuries never heal. You'll think you're fine, then you do it again a few months later because it's still weakened. Well I did actually roll my ankle once while running barefoot, stepping into some guy's over-edged grassline, and I fell over and hopped right back up and kept running. The muscles in the ankle, which get almost 0 work in shoes, protect you from spraining something when the time comes. I've had to start wearing shoes again because I'm at college (and folded to images and reputation), and after 2 months my ankles are back to their original weakened state again.

And if that weren't enough, check out Nike's new running shoe, "The Nike Free". Top of the line running shoes designed to "simulate running barefoot"! Get that? They're selling a shoe to simulate barefootedness... why?

and finally... I leave you with http://www.unshod.org/pfbc/pfrossi2.htm
and a part of this article (the whole thing isn't worth reading), http://www.barefooters.org/key-works/case_for/3.health.html#3.2 (sections 3.2-3.4)

 

[INTPINFP]

That's just flavor!

**Homer Simpson Drooling Voice**

"Ummm, fecal matter"

rofl

that reminds of the time when i was in summer day care when i was a little kid, "fecal matter on the floor" (drops to the floor) "fecal matter on the floor" everybody dance now

well, there actually was poop on the floor of the main room, more often than not (this was like 2nd-4th grader day care)

 

[fullerene]

my post may have gotten lost... but I didn't get an error message and it looked like it was posted til I tried to edit it to account for the 6 posts that slipped in before me. The last time I did this, it turned up after a day or so... so I'm not gonna rewrite it.

Just wanted to add...

I remember hearing a study about the amount of fecal matter around various parts of the house. There was more in the bathroom (and on all surfaces in the bathroom- like your toothbrush!), but there was also a fairly constant trace level of fecal matter all over the house.

I saw the physics on that, although it was 4 years ago now, so I don't remember it. Let's just say, if you don't close the toilet seat when you flush it... you're asking for trouble. haha it gets caught in little air bubbles and explodes out the top with tremendous force. Toothbrushes beware!

 

[Agent Intellect]

i've been brushing my teeth with my own shit for years, then. does that make me crazy?

 

[Chronomar]

Walking around barefoot is awesome. I wish it wasn't a "weird" thing to do in America. (One of the great reasons to go swimming: social acceptance for walking around barefoot.)

I walk around barefoot also, especially in my backyard (a mini 1 acre forest, complete with squishy mud, moss, and leaves). My sister screams, "ohmygodyou're soooo strange" when she sees me doing this. I never got how it was strange at all. I mean really, the idea of shoes in warm weather is strange to me, unless there's glass or something on the ground. Even then, I have some pretty leather-like feet bottoms (probably from all that walking around barefoot) and so it doesn't bother me.

It's sort of strange in itself how many insignificant details of my life, which I have in common with very few to no people, I have found in common with people on this forum.

 

[fullerene]

mmhmm.

^ oh good, my post came through ^
(just drawing attention to it cause it posted at the same time I actually posted it, even though it showed up later. Didn't want INI[stuff] to miss it... first one at the top of this page)

 

[sagewolf]

My mom would kill me if I didn't wear shoes outside: our entire yard is squishy mud. And she does not want it on the floor. I don't like cleaning it up, so I put up with the shoes. Maybe in college I'll ditch them for a while: you've put a lot of thought into why you walk around barefoot. (I assume you've been asked, though. xD)

...I'm not even going to complain about the bizarre topic change. My question was 'are you all comfortable with your weirdness and do you reveal it to others, or do you play for social acceptance.' It has been answered (if in a left-handed kind of way).

Definitively.

 

[fullerene]

tee hee, it's what I do.

Do you make it a point to take off your shoes before walking around inside? Because then it makes sense. I laughed cause my family at first thought I would be tracking dirt all around... but realistically you don't track any more than if you wore your shoes on inside the house, too--it's just more of that "appearance of" tracking dirt around.

God I hate appearance-judgments...

It struck me, a few months ago, just how amazing skin really is. Stuff doesn't come off of it without soap and water, but as soon as you soap up it washes clean of almost everything. I actually stopped using tissues, too, because every time I blow my nose, I'm right near a sink. Skin is so much less harsh on the nose, and you can just wash your hands immediately after! It's such a fantastic material...

 

[sagewolf]

Yes: all our shoes are in a big pile next to the wardrobe just inside the door, unless they get really muddy. Then they're left outside until the mud dries, so we can brush it off. A huge pile of shoes. ...It wouldn't be very comfortable to take off our feet (but Jack gets away with bare feet, and he tracks twice as much as we would: he has twice as many feet! Dumb dog!).

Skin is great! It's porous, but nigh-on-impenetrable to germs, and it heals itself if you cut it, and it constantly renews itself! And it's flexible and keeps our organs in and stuff. (Where I like them, personally.) I kinda wish the skin on my face wasn't such a pain in the butt, though... It's both oily and dry. Somehow. O.o

God I hate appearance-judgments...

Hahah, I was asked once if I was a boy or a girl. Right on the street. If the kid had been any older, I'd have said 'androgynous' or 'hermaphrodite', depending on which I felt like that day, but he was like... eight. So I just told him, yeah, I'm a girl, have a nice day. I'm proud of being a weirdo, though, so I didn't mind.

 

[fullerene]

lol... I've never gotten that, but I did get a double take from a friend I hadn't seen in a while when I had long hair and decided to wear pink to a party.

...what? I've never heard someone say a guy looks bad in pink... and haircuts are a hassle. I can only make myself go out and get one when washing it every day becomes more of a hassle than the haircut itself would. Still... last time I gave that a shot.