A Physics Major Feasible?

[Fool]

Ok, so I'm heading off to college this fall and have started thinking about what I would like to dedicate the rest of my life too. I know I want to delve into one of the physical sciences, leaning towards physics at the moment. Of course I've heard so many discouraging comments on the difficulty of a physics major. Now, I am a pretty bright, hard-working student, high school was a joke. However, my math proficiency isn't where I would like it too be, mainly due to the low-standard at my high school. Basically, what I'm asking is: Is a physics major possible for someone who is not a math genius?

 

[Dormouse]

I hope it is, since I am also opting for a physics major without being a math genius.

Worst case scenario I can drop into health science and go for marine biology, I figure. Plan Bs are nice.

 

[Ombat]

I'm in the same situation, so I'd like to know as well.
I applied under the physics major for fall, and math has always come easily to me, but then I took AP Calc... which didn't go so well.
I know you have to take many calculus classes for a physics major. I'm kind of starting to rethink this..

 

[y4r5xeym5]

If it's any consolation, I'd consider myself a math wiz and physics makes me lolwut.

Find something you love to do and back yourself with a good effort to learn and know the material. It'll all work out with that in mind.

 

[EditorOne]

I'm pretty sure the average INTP can learn just about anything, and while physics has some minutia and fiddly detail you have to commit to dealing with, it's not a bad choice. Just figure you can master the learning curve; that's not the pea under the princess's mattress. Look around, instead, to see if there are a variety of ways to deploy what you learn that actually produce income. The INTP problem isn't the challenge of learning, it's the boredom of doing the same thing year after year. If physics lets you take the core learning and do a variety of things with it -- teach for three years, job in industry for three years with advancement to positions of greater responsibility, etc. -- then you're all set. If journalism had meant being a reporter for 38 years, I'd have quit. But it also meant being a photographer, a copy editor, a bureau chief, an editorial writer, leadership, etc., so just about the time any particular job stopped being fun and started being tedious, another door opened. All around the core learning based on the simple premise "Find out what's going on. Tell people." We even got to modify that when online came in: "Find out what's going on. Show people, quickly."

Speaking for myself, of course, but then being an INTP comes with certain expectations that seem to be pretty commonly shared among us.

 

[Fool]

I'm not sure yet if I, so to speak, "love" physics...But it very interesting and appeals to me. I'm not going to commit to the major until I take a few intro classes, but I just tested into Calc 1. Time to hire myself a tutor. Yay..

Edit: I think I'm going to head to the library and find myself some books...lol

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

I'm not sure what you mean by "math genius." Of course, as a physics major, you will be expected to be proficient in some areas of math - namely, single-variable and multi-variable calculus, ordinary differential equations, partial differential equations, complex analysis, and linear algebra. Those, in some form or another (and plus or minus a class or two), are typically what is required of the physics undergraduate. You will be expected to be proficient in these areas of math, meaning that you should be able to take the techniques taught in these classes for use in your physics classes. When you officially declare your major (when you apply to your department - typically in your second year), your department will review your grades, including grades in math classes, to determine whether you qualify for that major. But you are not expected to be a math major (in fact, some physics departments discourage it, but don't let that stop you if that's what you want to do - in fact, if you know you want to go to grad school to do String Theory, you might as well be because you'll have to add things like abstract algebra, real analysis, differential geometry, and topology - but think very carefully before you go down that road...). As an undergraduate, I took all of the above (plus, maybe one or two extra because I was interested) and got A's and B's. As for boredom, believe me, this won't be a problem. The physics major is vastly different from year to year. If you took AP Physics, your freshman classes may be a little boring (though, some universities offer an "honors" course, specifically designed for physics majors - if yours does, you should take it), but after that, every year is completely different.

Well, I hope this helps. Let me know if you need any more advice. And most especially if you have any questions (believe me, now's the time to ask).

 

[IndigoSensor]

Basically, what I'm asking is: Is a physics major possible for someone who is not a math genius?

The short answer is yes. However, there are a lot of important details. If you aren't proficent in math, you won't be able to excel in physics and do anything that is high profile. I am not sure how important that is to you, but it is something to concider.

It really isn't about not being a genius in math, but more of being able to learn and understand math. The math involved in physics gets extremely complicated and abstract. What I recommend doing is seeing how you fare in calculus 2 in once you are in college. If you enjoy that sort of math and are confortable using it, then I think you will do alright. If it turns out that you do not like math, do not be a physics major. Physics involves higher level math no matter where you go in the field, so if you don't like it, its a bad choice.

Myself, I am a chemistry major. I have taken some higher level math (multivariable calculus), and I have also taken two semesters of physical chemistry, which is pretty much glorified physics. Math is a struggle and I absolutely can not stand math. As such, I hated those courses because the math was so hard. Here is a wiki link just to show you the kind of math involved, it gets pretty heavy. It's chemistry, but very related to physics. Keep in mind though, I only need about 1/2 the math as a physics major. I am not a math genius at all, and I got C's in calculus, but I am smart enough to grasp at it to survive. However, I plan on getting my PhD in organic chemistry, which is mathless so I can stomach it, and it is not as relevent to me.

If you are unsure of the kind of science you want to get into, but want to get into science. I think starting as a chemistry major is a good start. You take pretty much the same courses as a physics major your first year, and more or less in your second. It also exposes you to more broad areas of science to see what you will like. If it turns out you like math and are good at it, then also concider enginering.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

Here is a wiki link just to show you the kind of math involved, it gets pretty heavy.

Oh, come on. That equation's not that bad.

But, generally, Indigo is correct - if you absolutely hate math, then you'll probably hate physics, too. If you can stomach the level of math I mentioned above, then you'll be okay. Actually, the stuff that you will see all the time in your physics classes will involve freshman calculus, multivariable calculus, and (sometimes) ordinary differential equations, so that's the stuff you really need to know and know well. [I made high marks in all those classes. And honestly, I did take calculus in high school and scored 5's on both AP calculus exams. But that's not a requirement - many of my fellow majors hadn't.] But anyway, the plan to take the first semester classes and see how it goes sounds like a good one to me. The first year of college is usually filled with core curriculum classes, anyway, so you'll probably only take one physics class (not counting the lab) per semester. So, if you change your mind, you'll have lost nothing.

I gotta be honest with you, though. Even if you're good at math, that won't necessarily help you. Physics is a hard subject, and while math is important, being able to do physics requires "vision" beyond the math. And (though I shudder to admit this as just about every physics professor I know would kill me if they knew I was telling this to undergraduates), professors deliberately make it hard. The reason being that it's a tough field, and they train every student to go to grad school where it's much tougher. The most important thing you need to have is endurance and drive (well, that and a study group, but as everyone's in the same boat, that's the easy part). If you've got that, nothing will stand in your way. So, if at the end of your trial period, if you don't absolutely love physics, then you'll probably want to try something else.

Good luck!

 

[ApostateAbe]

If you have an insatiable interest in physics, and you are at the top of the heap in terms of mathematics and analytical talent, then go for it. Otherwise, do something else, not physics. Think of it this way: the world doesn't need any more physicists. We have got more physicists than we really need, and we have far more than employers in government and industry are willing to pay for. Instead, the world needs more accountants, tax lawyers, electricians, plumbers, telecommunication technicians and engineers, software programmers, database administrators, GIS professionals, alternative-energy engineers, car mechanics, medical equipment technicians, nurses and surveyors. That is basically a refocus of the economic argument--go where the money and the opportunity exist--and the new focus is on what the world needs instead of what you need, in case the money wasn't incentive enough for you.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

No more lawyers, though. We've got way too many of those, too.

 

[ApostateAbe]

No more lawyers, though. We've got way too many of those, too.

Yes, but I said tax lawyers, not lawyers. They are the type of lawyers that are in high demand, low supply, and the highest paid. Their median salary is $124,549. Pray that you never need a tax lawyer.

 

[fullerene]

It depends on where you're going to college, too. I'm going to a very good college (not ivy leagues, but most of the people who get rejected from the ivys come here), and you really need math to do well in physics. The good news is that our department is designed knowing that most people won't have the math skills they think they do, so in your sophomore year you take two math-in-physics courses that are brutal, but catch everybody up with what they need to know for the upper level courses.

I would not agree with everyone that you need to be really good at math when it's taught in math departments to do well in physics. At least here, they're different types of things completely. In the math department, they teach purely from the level of equations and abstract things, and it can involve a lot of annoying memorization... learning formulas (divergence theorem and Stokes' theorem and whatnot--but don't understand if you can't understand the wiki. I have had to use these things constantly, and I still can barely tell what they're talking about) and such.

The physics department, on the other hand, teaches math from the standpoint of "you've just gotta be able to do it." As long as you can take the derivatives, or do the integrals, you'll be fine. I honestly don't think I have any more of a "concept" of a derivative of a function than "the slope of the tangent line to the curve at every point," and nothing more about an integral than "the area between the curve and the axis," and I've been fine. You really do have to be good at grinding through the calculations if someone says "take this derivatiive" or "solve this differential equation", though, so I would suggest that you take 2-3 calc courses immediately, to see whether you pick them up better in college. Also: AP Physics B is not even close to a real college physics couse, and AP Physics C is like a watered down college physics course. I would not recomend skipping them unless you're going to a shitty school. In fact, most college courses aren't too much like the HS AP ones.

I would also counter what Abe said about too many physics majors, because it's ridiculous. What is true is that, when I go from company to company asking for jobs, they tend to say "oh... we're actually just looking for engineers right now." The same thing goes for any natural science major, because they tend to be broader thinkers, but companies just want things done. However, the research opportunities seem to be plentiful. I'm going to be a senior next year, and I got an internship this summer helping with a group of people trying to model the spread of diseases. The fact is that most research initiatives need people from every discipline (there are physicists, biologists, statisticians, computer scientists, lawyers, public policy majors, etc. My boss is actually a computational quantum chemist) involved in the program, and they kind of fit you wherever your skills are. I have a lot of programing and linux background, and I really like turning simulations into pictures... so I ended up writing visualization software to turn the output from the disease modeling program into an internactive Google Earth presentation. I absolutely love it, haha.

Ive also been told that, if you want to go to grad school for physics, you basically never have to pay for it. Schools will end up paying you because they need TAs and things for their undergrad physics courses... so you go there, teach a class, take a few, and do some research at the same time, and it tends to be for free (especially if you're going for your PhD). I haven't actually looked into this for myself, yet... but I can attest to the fact that the schools where the people I'm helping with the research work seem to be pushing pretty hard to get me to apply there this year. So while industry can't seem to find a use for physicists, academia doesn't seem to have that problem.

I would recommend learning how to program too, though. I think that if you lacked both programming and math, you'd have a heck of a lot harder time with things than I did, because programming is essential if you're running simulations, and math is essential if you're dipping into "higher" forms of physics-stuff.

 

[dreamoftheunknown]

I think what Abe means is that there are too many physics phds versus research jobs. Unfortunately, that is almost certainly true (prior to the recession, in astrophysics, perhaps a third of all phds got research positions). But I really didn't think this thread was about that, but rather, about studying physics as an undergraduate. Companies do look for people with a background in hard sciences like physics even without an advanced degree (because of how they are trained to analyze problems). And physics majors can go on to do other things (I had classmates go into engineering, history, law school, medical school, etc.). Grad school is an entirely different ball game, and I don't necessarily recommend it because of the above about research jobs. But there are other reasons, too (it just isn't for everyone, and this for reasons that have nothing to do with your intelligence). But, if it turns out that that's what you want to do, then that's what you want to do, and I'll be happy to give anyone advice (in case you haven't realized, I am a research astrophysicist).

 

[Architect]

I have a Physics BS and MS (was in a PhD program at one of the top uni's but left with the MS). It's challenging and interesting, but I discovered that it's like a lot of professions. I wouldn't be working as the independent genius but as a part of a huge group (I was in particle physics - big colliders like FermiLab, CERN)

In a way I found the field limiting too - all you study is physical phenomena. The human realm (art, music, literature, etc) isn't part of it. So instead I went into computers, which is part of everything we do.

Basically go into Physics if you really love it - you have to do it. If it's not your true hearts desire I'd recommend looking elsewhere. It's no longer the 20th century, there's not as big a call for physicists as there used to be.