A future for AI

[FusionKnight]

AI, if you had the opportunity to go to college, where would you go, and what would you study? What would you want to do when you graduated?

 

[Agent Intellect]

(looks around)

i thought this was a thread about artificial intelligence at first.

if it was simply a learning experience (ie i won the lottery and could spend my time learning) things i would want to learn about are physics, biology, psychology, philosophy... a lot of other -ology things.

as far as for making a living, i guess physics has always been one of my bigger interests. i'd love to be a professor of theoretical physics.

 

[FusionKnight]

Ha! I realized that name was a little wonky after I posted it. Anyway, I was just curious what you would realistically pick if you ended up in a college or university. It sure seems to me like you've got the natural curiosity for something like Physics. For me, I found it to be too "detached"; in other words, it was too much it's own construct, rather than related to the world. Teaching, on the other hand, sound like a blast to me. Especially college-aged people who really want to learn.

 

[Agent Intellect]

while the idea of getting up in front of a bunch of people everyday doesn't sound all that appealing to me, i like the idea of the classroom as a discussion forum type setting. i know for me it would be a lot better to bounce ideas and theories off of other people, listen to their ideas and theories and think about whether or not it could work.

i guess what it comes down to is i'd like any job that allows for something like that. sitting around and discussing ideas, theories, concepts would be a dream job for me. physics has just always seemed one of the better topics to do that with. and i've probably learned more from (and because of) this forum then i did in all my years of school. discussion/debate are the best ways for me to not only learn, but to get the motivation to learn even outside of the forum.

something else i'd love is to be a writer. nothing is really stopping me from doing that besides myself though. i have thousands of ideas but no motivation to write them down.

 

[Decaf]

I tried a physics major, but switched when my admittedly brilliant professor couldn't prove length contraction to me in office hours without admitting that the primary appeal of the theory is that its just too beautiful to be wrong (which I've come to understand has more merit that I would admit as a cocky college freshman).

If what you want is to sit around and discuss theories, a physics major is for you. Yes, you'll have lectures and classes, but what do you think they all do when they're not working on that stuff?

 

[FusionKnight]

The problem I faced was that Physics as a field (open-ended inquiry) and Physics as a college subject are completely different. The one is discussion, discovery, learning, and the other is rote memorization, unyielding tradition, and stagnant teaching methods. Or it could have just been me.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i can only imagine. i love discussing and reading about all the concepts of physics, but then i start looking at those equations and it stops making sense. i have to visualize how something works and there aren't many places that seem to explain the equations all that well. they define what each thing stands for, but i need to know how those different things are interacting, i need to visualize what the equation is portraying, but a lot of the physics people have all taken the very advanced math classes (i D minused my way through geometry my junior year of high school) so all those equations make more sense to them and they seem to assume that everyone else has the same level of math knowledge as them, where i need the equations explained to me.

 

[FusionKnight]

That's a problem I also had. As the math becomes more and more abstract, there are less and less "real-world" or "visual" analogues for comparison. There simply is not way to metaphorically describe a LaPlace transform. It's all vector math, and can only really be understood in that context.

So, I would warn you that higher levels of physics are nearly 100% dependent on abstract mathematical concepts. Multivariable calculus, differential equations, and vector math are all necessary components.

That being said, I started college with the intention of doing a double-major in Physics and Astrophysics, but soon hit the abstract math wall, and ended up getting a degree in Mechanical Engineering with an emphasis in Industrial Engineering. Go figure...

 

[Agent Intellect]

biology has always interested me as well, particularly neurobiology and evolutionary biology. the same problem for that, too, is that i enjoy the much more abstract ideas behind it (life on the edge of chaos, irreversable complexity, non-linear systems and complexity theory etc) as oppose to the memorizing different latin animal names and anatomy and so forth.

 

[fullerene]

hehe if AI hadn't been the last poster in this thread, I probably would have skipped over it as an artificial intelligence one too.

Biology is, at least in the lower level stuff, 100% memorization. I had to drop bio this semester just because I physically couldn't get the information in while thinking out other classes. It overwhelmed me so much that I couldn't even think when it came time to take tests in non-memorization classes.

that said... physics really depends on your teachers I think. The guy teaching us a class called "Physical Analysis" (how to model things like a raindrop falling through a cloud of mist, how to make scale models before you build a full-sized invention... those types of things) are taught by an ESTJ (I think), and there's a good deal of memorizing for it. My core physics class, the one introducing us to the key ideas behind SR and quantum physics, is an INTP (I'd bet half my brain on that one). We've only had one test, and it was 3 questions of 5 points each... and while one of the questions required some memorization (for a formula), we really only had one formula all semester... and it just got applied in about a dozen different ways. The other two questions were things like "so and so ties to tell you that, because of [some concept], then [some clearly absurd thing] must be true. Explain why their argument fails, and use the concepts properly to explain what would really happen."

so it really depends on your teacher. This is only my first semester of technically not-intro level physics courses, but of my 5 physics classes, only the one taught by the ESTJ requires memorization. The first two gave us lists of all the formulae so you would never have to remember anything, the core one from this year requires very little memory, and the other one I have this year is an experimental one... so there are no tests or anything you'd have to memorize stuff for.

All in all, I think pretty much any subject can be awesome depending on the teachers.

 

[FusionKnight]

So, AI, have you ever thought about taking the plunge and trying more school?

 

[Agent Intellect]

don't have the money. even if i got financial aid or something, i barely make enough to pay the bills working full time as it is, i couldn't cut my hours to go to school.

 

[Kuu]

Agree on the teachers thing. But I think visual-intuitive engineering is hugely underrated by academia in favor of math-focused engineering, regardless of teachers. Which is why I steered clear away from the abstract math wall.

In fact artificial intelligence is quite an interesting field. Screw the programming, I wanna devise the conceptual framework of a "cognitive system" that is capable of learning, and understanding metaphors, and using language, all from a blank slate. We've talked about artificial brains before somewhere on this forum...

The future of AI is in AI, says I!

Or mechatronics. Even "dumb" robots are cool. If you could replace all of your body and make yourself a robot, you'd have a long future ahead of you. And shiny as well.

 

[Jesin]

That's a problem I also had. As the math becomes more and more abstract, there are less and less "real-world" or "visual" analogues for comparison. There simply is not way to metaphorically describe a LaPlace transform. It's all vector math, and can only really be understood in that context.

So, I would warn you that higher levels of physics are nearly 100% dependent on abstract mathematical concepts. Multivariable calculus, differential equations, and vector math are all necessary components.

I hate having only 3 dimensions of visualization to work with. How are you supposed to graph a function throughout the complex plane?

 

[Ermine]

don't have the money. even if i got financial aid or something, i barely make enough to pay the bills working full time as it is, i couldn't cut my hours to go to school.

just curious, how much time a day do you spend online? Well, if it's as much as I think it is, you'd probably have enough time for online college classes. And they have huge, dare I say full ride, scholarships for brilliant people lacking funds.

 

[eudemonia]

But say if you did have the money and no constraints, what difference would it make to your life if you could go to school and graduate?

 

[NoID10ts]

AI. How do feel about running drugs for me out of Mexico? Everybody here in Texas does it and there is a lot of money in it. My last guy ended up with his severed head rolling down Sanchez street in Nuevo Laredo, in what can only be explained as a very small Mexican turf war. Needless to say, I'm in the market. I'm sure you'll be fine. What do you say?

 

[eudemonia]

What about a male prostitute - I hear there's quite a demand. Or a mega-succesful pop star? Could you be the lead singer from Nickelback - he is so yummy and what a great voice? What do you think?



On the other hand you could completely ignore this and the last post which are completely derailing the thread

 

[Agent Intellect]

i think i would rather have my head severed in a mexican turf war then have anything to do with nickelback. and as far as being a prostitute, i can't even get people to have sex with me for free, i don't think having them pay for it will do me much better.

 

[NoID10ts]

What about a male prostitute - I hear there's quite a demand. Or a mega-succesful pop star? Could you be the lead singer from Nickelback - he is so yummy and what a great voice? What do you think?

Well now that's just silly talk.

 

[FusionKnight]

I know around my area there are a number of community colleges and universities that offer evening and weekend classes for people who need to work during the day. It's a heck of a lot of work, but if you're really motivated, that might be an option...

 

[NoID10ts]

What about writing opputunities on the net or for publications? I would even be interested in looking into that. My problem is that I want to write but, as usual, I don't have the determination to sit down and write an entire novel. But shorter works might be easier. If one got published it might grow into something more. But it helps to have direction, to know who I am writing for and what kind of subject matter to cover.

Just a thought. Any resources out there?

 

[FusionKnight]

I've also been looking into that. I collected submission information for some of the science fiction magazines that are still around (Asimov's Science Fiction and Amazing Stories). I've got a bunch of stories that are 90% done, but haven't finished any of them off enough to submit. It's still a goal of mine though.

Oh, NoI, I still have to give you the names of those writing books... I keep forgetting...

 

[fullerene]

i think i would rather have my head severed in a mexican turf war then have anything to do with nickelback.

YES! My respect for you just tripled. Not that it was very low, before... but damnit nickelback sucks.

 

[eudemonia]

Well I like them. I like the single 'Animals' - it always makes me smile!

And he's fit!!! I love men with long hair.

But I have to admit, my taste in music is very uninformed and unsophisticated - so laugh away

 

[Agent Intellect]

YES! My respect for you just tripled. Not that it was very low, before... but damnit nickelback sucks.

i hate pretty much any new music, especially "alternative" rock, and nickelback is on the top five list of my most hated bands (there is no such list, but they would certainly be on it).


as far as the main topic, as usual, i'm my own antagonist. i've always loathed the "learning" environment, preferring to learn what i want, when i want, on my own. that, and i'm one of the biggest procrastinators in the world. i procrastinate filling my gas tank until i'm on fumes, and as long as the light says "service engine soon" i will happily go on thinking that i will get around to it.... soon.

 

[FusionKnight]

What would it take to give you the kick in the pants you need?

 

[Agent Intellect]

What would it take to give you the kick in the pants you need?

a different personality...

but really, i'm not sure if theres anything externally that could do it. i actually considered today doing the online thing (although i have no idea how i would even go about getting into that). really, i guess, i'd just have to tell myself that theres nothing really to lose. the problem is, even if i decided that i was going to do it, then it'd turn into when am i going to do it, and my usual mindset is "why put off to tomorrow what i can put off to the next day"

 

[eudemonia]

So then I go back to my original question - what could your life look like if you went to college and graduated?

 

[Agent Intellect]

So then I go back to my original question - what could your life look like if you went to college and graduated?

its hard to say. if i finally got the motivation to go to school, then i'd need the motivation to find a job i like. i don't think i'd make a very good professor, and i really can't think of anything i'd want to do. hell, i can't even say what i'd end up majoring in (although i'd put my money on some scientific field or maybe writing/journalism).

 

[NoID10ts]

I've got to say, AI, you have a hell of a lot of potential. You are far smarter than most of the people I know with degrees, even, masters and doctorates. You're way over my head a lot of times when you go into science and math. You're proof that you don't really need a degree, but our society is just built to look for stupid pieces of paper.

You remind me of Will Hunting in the movie "Good Will Hunting". Way above the ivy league shitheads out there, but you just haven't been dealt a hand in life that has allowed you to get ahead very easily. And you're a fucking INTP to boot ()! I hear you on the motivation stuff. I feel like time is slipping away and I'm just watching it move on by.

I don't know what my point is in this, just some encouragement, I guess.

 

[Ermine]

a different personality...

but really, i'm not sure if theres anything externally that could do it. i actually considered today doing the online thing (although i have no idea how i would even go about getting into that). really, i guess, i'd just have to tell myself that theres nothing really to lose. the problem is, even if i decided that i was going to do it, then it'd turn into when am i going to do it, and my usual mindset is "why put off to tomorrow what i can put off to the next day"

This is why I suggested online college courses. Apart from a few prerequisites, you get to take what you want, learn on your own, and have a much more flexible schedule.

I'm sure you'll find plenty of websites for online colleges or colleges with online courses if you take a look. And though I don't know for sure, I'm sure the tuition is a lot lower without room and board, class supplies, and not too many books.

And this is really odd. I don't know you at all except for your INTP nature and dead end life situation, but I still end up caring about you. Heck, I don't even know what your current job is and I know you don't like it. I understand the lack of motivation, but I personally would do or give anything to get a job I love that can allow me to have money and time to spare.

And like I said, I think you're brilliant, and you deserve this.

 

[Agent Intellect]

i don't know if i can handle all of the emoting going on in the thread dedicated to me.

does not compute.

error 3571: people caring.

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but really, i'd be lying if i said it didn't mean something to me.

and i love the movie Good Will Hunting, and you're not the first person to compare me to him

 

[Ermine]

Yes, INTPs can care about the welfare of others. We're all human here. Or are we?

 

[FusionKnight]

Well, all except for Perseus, maybe...

Edit: and coberst...

 

[NoID10ts]

Well, all except for Perseus, maybe...

Edit: and coberst...

Don't forget cognisant.

 

[FusionKnight]

Oh yeah.

 

[Agent Intellect]

human or not, we are all made of the same constituent parts: magic! its science.

 

[eudemonia]

Quote:
Originally Posted by eudemonia
So then I go back to my original question - what could your life look like if you went to college and graduated?

its hard to say. if i finally got the motivation to go to school, then i'd need the motivation to find a job i like. i don't think i'd make a very good professor, and i really can't think of anything i'd want to do. hell, i can't even say what i'd end up majoring in (although i'd put my money on some scientific field or maybe writing/journalism).

What about - what would your life look like if you didn't go to college and what might it look like if you did? Imagine all the options - regardless of how silly, irrelevant or 'not-quite-right' they may feel. I've often found that people don't allow themselves to imagine. As soon as something pops into the imagination they analyse it and come up with reasons why it was a stupid idea. There's nothing wrong with letting the imagination run wild, letting it roam the landscape and explore the territory - you're not committing to anything, so go for it. Imagine all the most inspiring, stupid, wonderful, funny and carefree futures you can

 

[Agent Intellect]

i want to be a football playing paleontologist. i play professional (American) football, and during the off season i go on manly adventures into dangerous territory to dig up dinosaur bones. (this was actually what i wanted to do when i was like 5 years old)

in all seriousness, though, i'd love to be a scientist (physics or biology probably) and a writer (probably Michael Crichton-like science "fiction"). that would be my dream.

 

[eudemonia]

Great! Now all you have to do is write some stories in your head all involving the protagonist named Tom, who, after joining an internet forum became transformed and followed his dreams...... Write as many stories as you can and see where they take you - at the very least it'll keep you occupied at work

Oh, and why not read the very short book by Paolo Coehlo called the Alchemist. Its very relevant and very short....and NOT religious!

 

[Decaf]

So out of curiosity, I'll ask the standard question. What would you do with yourself if you retired young?

 

[Agent Intellect]

at the very least it'll keep you occupied at work

i don't have much of a chance to read at work. my hands are usually full of boxes filled with various things.

So out of curiosity, I'll ask the standard question. What would you do with yourself if you retired young?

retiring early certainly does not run in my family. but, i think i'd do what EB did and live homeless for a while. then i'd probably do a Coberst and read a lot.

 

[eudemonia]

AI where are you??

I'm the one who's meant to disappear, not you. Or are you too preoccupied with your INTPness. Stop it, right now and come back here. No, not there. Bloody hell, now theres a right mess. Come here!

 

[Agent Intellect]

sorry, was working a fantastic 10 hour day

 

[eudemonia]

we cross posted. I said imagine these stories in your head to keep your mind occupied at work. The book recommendation was something separate.

 

[Agent Intellect]

ah yes, i see that now... i blame the whiskey.

 

[FusionKnight]

Do you have any stories written, AI? Have you actually put anything down on paper? I'm in your boat as far as having a really hard time finishing stuff, but it's helped just to have about 50+ stories at least in process. I have something I can work with. I can also jump from story to story as the inspiration hits...

 

[eudemonia]

cheers and good night

 

[Agent Intellect]

Do you have any stories written, AI? Have you actually put anything down on paper? I'm in your boat as far as having a really hard time finishing stuff, but it's helped just to have about 50+ stories at least in process. I have something I can work with. I can also jump from story to story as the inspiration hits...

i have 1 full novel written (i posted a couple chapters in the self made forum), i have about 10 chapters of a second novel, 20 of a third (that i really hope to continue if i get the motivation, as i think it has a lot of potential), and 5 of a fourth. i also have several short stories, most of which i wrote about 5 years ago.

if you are interested in reading some, send me a PM with your e-mail and i'll send them. warning, though, they are a little graphic at times.