7 LEVELS OF INTP

[ZenRaiden]

sure, but the instinct to procreate motivates the impulse

Technically yes.

 

[Black Rose]

Many basic needs keep us alive.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

ON a fun note I found this hilarious.
This is level 99 Ome INTP.

OBRA MAESTRA

 

[fractalwalrus]

㊙️ 道可道 非常道​

LOGICZOMBIE — Today at 6:57 AM​

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level one INTP: when i was a child, i thought i was an idiot - the world didn't make any sense to me, but i was told "you'll understand when you get older" - although i did explore internally, i had every question rebuffed and i figured i'd "try again later" - although, for example, i remember being five years old, standing on a wooden stool in front of the bathroom sink, staring into the mirror, trying to look inside myself, and i came to the realization that i was a robot that looked exactly like a human, and or functionally indistinguishable from a robot who looked exactly like a human

[7:02 AM]​

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level two INTP: as i got older i thought there was some trove of knowledge that every "adult" knew and someday someone would "clue me in" - my family was highly religious, but their religion didn't make any sense to me, i would ask questions like, "if god is all powerful, why does it need worshipers ?" - "especially when it doesn't say anywhere in the bible that you have to go to church every sunday" - and stuff like that, i was expected to take their responses at face-value, like "we worship god out of appreciation, to show respect" but that didn't make any sense to me either - but i figured that was because i was still too young and idiotic

LOGICZOMBIE — Today at 7:41 AM​

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level three INTP: eventually i had my first epiphany - nobody gives a shit about my feelings or my questions, so shut the fuck up and earn money and have fun - this worked amazingly for about ten years - the world generally still didn't make any sense beyond my specific interests, but i still figured that someone would come along at some point and clue me in - or at least one of my friends would figure it all out and let me know

LOGICZOMBIE — Today at 7:53 AM​

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level four INTP: after watching a movie "waking life" i got a little obsessed with a question presented in the film, "do you think more people are motivated by greed or fear ?" - this question kept rattling around for a few months and i started to see greed and fear everywhere, everything seemed so simple, then i met a friend of a friend and for the first time, they answered my questions with MORE QUESTIONS about my questions - and i had answers and they had answers and even though we had just met, i felt like the universe just exploded - we talked until the sun came up - and i thought i had a new best friend - but the next week when i went back to talk some more, they had no comments, it was like they'd reverted back to a "normie" and when i asked my friend, what the hell happened, they told me "oh, you just caught them when they were really really drunk last time and they get really talkative when they're drunk" - anyway - a bunch of stuff happened after that - i had like a hundred epiphanies, maybe two or three a day for weeks on end, culminating in "the event" - which was basically a rebirth - i now "knew what was going on" - finally

[7:59 AM]​

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level five INTP: now that i knew everything, of course, i wanted to tell everyone, and i do mean everyone - but i kept running into roadblocks - so i figured i just needed to organize my thoughts, you know systemize the path, build a bridge from "normie town" to "omverata" - or multiples bridges - like maybe a hundred or two hundred bridges - but of course i needed to start somewhere, so i wrote a seven part "theory of human behavior" - and people liked it, but it didn't have the effect i was expecting - and my closest friends and family members told me i really needed to shut the fuck up because i was scaring people and they thought i was trying to become some kind of cult leader or something - which is basically the opposite of what i was trying to do - but i eventually shut the fuck up

LOGICZOMBIE — Today at 8:40 AM​

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level six INTP: i just waited, reverted back to earn money and have fun - but every once in a while, i'd meet someone who had an idea they thought was interesting, but there was always some limit - i figured out that there were "unspoken rules" to conversation that most people would only mention after they had "reached their limit" - this is where i re-evaluated MBTI - and i identified myself as INTP - and i discovered that INTP and ENTP love to debate and don't generally lean in any particular political or philosophical direction - so i joined debate.org - and learned a lot about formal debate - and the limits and logical contradictions of the format - so i fixed those - but only a few people were interested in fixing formal debate - but i still found a few people interested in informal debate who generally intuitively followed the three rules of civil debate - i thought i had finally "found the others" - but one by one they became "black-pilled" and stopped talking, stopped exploring ideas, at least externally - we'd hit some topic and they'd eject themselves from the interaction - INTPs are "big game", very introspective and very difficult to get talking and even harder to convince of anything because they've usually mapped out their own personal "framework" in great detail (often with inscrutable special language) - and this ejecting from the conversation thing was frustrating, but i still had a small handful of interlocutors - and adjusted my goal to find - one logiczombie per year - and i was meeting that target

LOGICZOMBIE — Today at 9:05 AM​

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level seven INTP: i figured out that mass communication, a book, a movie, a show, is never going to achieve what i'm looking for - at BEST you end up with a "cult of personality" which might develop into a religion or a quasi-religion - and plenty of people have done that already and it doesn't work - i'm not "the" logiczombie, i'm simply "a" logiczombie - i have no unique or special abilities or talents or status of any kind - i just have an idea - so then i figured out that one-on-one communication is the only option here - and humans can only know, or only have even the slightest chance to "know" maybe four people in their entire lifetime - so, i'd like to find four, and turn that into a four-way-conversation, but first things first, i need to find one - and as a side-note, i now understand why people who reach this level often eject from the conversation - people only value things they "discover" "on their own" "at their own pace" - so i need to follow someone, be receptive, test them gently, and wait

7 LEVELS OF INTP

㊙️ 道可道 非常道

logiczombie.substack.com

7 LEVELS OF INTP — Blurt

㊙️ 道可道 非常道 by logiczombie

blurtlatam.intinte.org

A response to the 7 levels of becoming sentient:

1) Your experience as a child describe similar circumstances to my own. I was raised in a rather strict and hierarchical religion, but said religion (on offshoot of Christianity) definitely has a lot more lore than its peers and tried to answer questions that most did not. Nonetheless, at a young age, a lot of what I was taught set off red flags of logical inconsistency that I guess not everyone has (I even catch myself being logically inconsistent on occasion). You can imagine that my line of questioning at that age of authority figures and their positions did not get me invited to many parties. I would not have gone anyways.

2) This description, is, again, very pertinent to my own experience. I, too, believed that a bunch of adults had access to info I was not privy to which would explain away their odd behaviors. I used to think that everyone knew what they were doing. Needless to say, this turned out not to be true. In Socratic terms, most people, are not living the examined life. They exist without needing adequate answers to deeper questions. Their curiosity tends to be limited in scope, and they tend to think that they are correct.

3) My equivalent epiphany came during a marriage I was once in. Sure I was not valued for what I had to offer in most areas (with the exception of obscure information that helped someone achieve a tangible goal), and this fact held true even with the person who was supposed to have strong feelings for me. I was able to parse out what was wrong with the system, but to actually do something to change things would involve acting against fear, and many are not equipped to do that. I tried in vain to convince others of the conclusions I had reached, but they did not care as much as I did. "Why should I learn something if it doesn't make me money?" was what she said. Many others feel the same. I put my head down and entered a period of intellectual stagnation. Some questions were still there, but I focused on the mundane aspects of simple subsistence. I was a shell.

4) Your observations about people acting out of fear and greed (which is perhaps, at its core an extension of fear since one would likely have to care about death to justify hoarding, unless it is an addictive hedonistic response), are things that, I too, have noticed. To put it in MBTI terminology, that is where the shadow self tended to rear the most in certain rants when things that had been bottled up came to the surface at once. I did identify the root of this frustration as emanating from the adoption of an ethical framework and the failure of the framework to be met by most. A mosquito is simply trying to survive, greedy as it may be. While its actions may be harmful, ranting against it will do no good unless one can convince others of the problems with mosquitoes and how it threatens the ability of others to succeed in their own pursuits of greed (paradox, much?)

5) Again, relatable. I would get into discussions about things and would be told that I was making people uncomfortable, this despite not railing against them directly. Now I have few social contacts left. The more you pursue uncomfortable truths, the more people tend to find you uncomfortable, I suppose. Oh well. I have some people left, but it seems our penchant is for filtering people out of life, not bringing them in. Cult leaders kind of need to do the latter.

6) I've been, admittedly, a bit sloppy in my approach here in regards to formal logic. I've probably even contradicted myself. However, I would very much be interested in formal logic and debate. This does take a great deal of practice though, even for INTPs, because we are not used to communicating with others in the manner of premise, premise, premise, conclusion. Usually we color our language up a bit. I would say, that there is ambiguity in coloring, however, in an arena where precision should be sought. So, while I am here, I will attempt to reform. I was Socratic at the very beginning, because that is generally more thought-provoking and avoids triggering the defense mechanisms of the interlocutor. I'll poke in and discuss things with you in this manner if you would like. Just point me to a topic you have a particular interest in, and I will engage. There are a lot of topics here.

7) Ah, well, yes. On this point of personal discovery being a necessary component of avoiding ejection from conversation, this is why the Socratic method can be effective, as well as directing people to information (as has been done with me). If one is truly seeking objectivity and the ever-elusive truth, one cannot be stuck to one way of thinking. There are other methods than the Socratic that can be used to tease apart the truth, and sometimes that method gets boring anyways.

 

[fractalwalrus]

I just had to create such a model to incorporate the directions of Extraversion and Introversion

perhaps my model is over-simplified

I vs E - - I = more internal self-worth - - E = more external self-worth

N vs S - - N = prefers exploring ideas - - S = prefers exploring people and places

T vs F - - T = prefers logic - - F = prefers "common sense" and e.motion

P vs J - - P = prefers exploring all ideas - - J = follows a preset or prevailing rule

Look into the cognitive functional stack in the deeper anals of MBTI lore if you want more complexity (though more complexity does not always equal better nor more accurate). To go even further down that rabbit hole, check out Socionics: https://wikisocion.github.io/en/index.html#Theory . This field takes MBTI to an even greater degree of depth and even incorporates intertype dynamice into the equation, as well as the concept of information metabolism, which may actually correlate to how strong various quadrants of our brains our and why we process information in different manners. For the INTP, the ideal dual under that system according to its theoretical framework is the ESFJ. The conflictor would be the ESFP.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

even incorporates intertype dynamice into the equation,

i've figured out that everyone, even people who type themselves as INTP look like ESFJ from my vantage point

so, that sort of "levels the playing-field" a bit

 

[fractalwalrus]

"Brains......"

even incorporates intertype dynamice into the equation,

i've figured out that everyone, even people who type themselves as INTP look like ESFJ from my vantage point

so, that sort of "levels the playing-field" a bit

Brains......

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Brains......

except for a very few, like maybe

 

[fractalwalrus]

Brains......

except for a very few, like maybe

Will that brain be listened to by those with the power to prevent this from occurring, or will market forces (which have an excellent track record for respecting human rights, after all) prevail? Perhaps the outcome is inevitable given our current mode of production and social structure. I'll outline what I am saying here with in premise, conclusion form.

P1: We are currently living in an economic and social system that has selected for the greediest among us to rule. (their greed levels can be shown to have virtually no limits since they have not put an end to their hoarding of resources no matter what the size of this pile is (see Elon Musk's wealth which has not stopped accruing, for example)). Greed and CEOs: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/05/150515083230.htm.

P2: A greedy individual whose greed cannot be satiated will tend to favor outcomes that will allow them to continue accumulating more. (Thus the manifestation of a pattern of continually greedy actions)

P3: Labor is a major part of costs that a greedy individual would seek to cut if they could, and they would likely eliminate the cost to themselves altogether if possible. https://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2022/05/01/the-biggest-cost-of-doing-business.html

P4: AI can be used to eliminate most labor-oriented tasks, but there may still remain some tasks that cannot be fully automated without giving AI the freedom to make complex decisions and change its own parameters. (This would necessitate Strong AI: https://www.ibm.com/topics/strong-ai)

P5: An AI developer who offers such an unfettered AI product to a greedy individual would likely be favored by said greedy individual if said developer properly persuaded the greedy individual of its advantages. (I cannot provide specific evidence on this point, but it follows from the above).

C: Given all of these premises, it is reasonable to conclude that the development of Strong AI is inevitable given no intervention in the current state of affairs.

 

[Puffy]

ON a fun note I found this hilarious.
This is level 99 Ome INTP.

Everyone has a shadow or darkness inside them, people like this are usually spiritually bypassing.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

C: Given all of these premises, it is reasonable to conclude that the development of Strong AI is inevitable given no intervention in the current state of affairs.

probably

 

[i_like_my_cage]

"omverata"

what does this mean?

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

what does this mean?

"all-truth" "universal-truth" "everything-is-true" "wholistic-truth"

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

- - added the missing 34 seconds at the end

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

㊙️ 道可道 非常道

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Everyone has a shadow or darkness inside them, people like this are usually spiritually bypassing.

or integra.ted

 

[fractalwalrus]

Everyone has a shadow or darkness inside them, people like this are usually spiritually bypassing.

or integra.ted

Yeah well, le RIddler is a great illustration of what could go wrong in le INTP if the "darkness" dominates, though this would probably not occur to as extreme a degree in most of us.

 

[Puffy]

Everyone has a shadow or darkness inside them, people like this are usually spiritually bypassing.

or integra.ted

Nah, def spiritually bypassing in this example.

 

[LOGICZOMBIE]

Nah, def spiritually bypassing in this example.

still probably more productive than going full "dark-side"