~1/2 an hour

[Chronomar]

Stephen Fry's ramblings. I 'stumbled upon' it and thought it was interesting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pscjBGTr_o&feature=related

 

[snafupants]

Fry's point about power and knowledge, about midway through, was especially canny, and I generally agree that personal progress paradoxically happens through others. The entire talk is brilliant, limpid, sagacious even! Another nice jab was equating Marxism and Christianity as potentially commensurately idiotic and fascist. What type is Stephen Fry? I'll wait to unleash my pronouncement.

 

[Chronomar]

I have no idea what type he is. Probably introverted. Probably intuitive. Could go either way on T/F. I'm a poor judge of P/J, but perhaps he's somewhere mid-way between the two?

 

[emRec]

He is obviously speaking in Ne, bouncing constantly around various big-picture, abstract models of people and the world. He loves intellectual reading, so is probably Ti. He's on the abstract side of the spectrum over the practical, and he's on the logical side over the personal. He's definitely a rationalist. He's not a 'J' rationalist because he has external intuition and internal thinking, so that leaves ENTP or INTP. I don't know enough about him outside of the video to make a call, but I'd lean more towards 'E' due to his preference for breadth over depth.

http://www.celebritytypes.com/entp.php identifies him as ENTP, which may have steered my analysis.

 

[snafupants]

He is obviously speaking in Ne, bouncing constantly around various big-picture, abstract models of people and the world. He loves intellectual reading, so is probably Ti. He's on the abstract side of the spectrum over the practical, and he's on the logical side over the personal. He's definitely a rationalist. He's not a 'J' rationalist because he has external intuition and internal thinking, so that leaves ENTP or INTP. I don't know enough about him outside of the video to make a call, but I'd lean more towards 'E' due to his preference for breadth over depth.

http://www.celebritytypes.com/entp.php identifies him as ENTP, which may have steered my analysis.

Is that really the only, or ideal, deduction that can be made?

 

[Chronomar]

I do agree on the Ne...but then also with snafupants that loving intellectual reading does not necessarily equate Ti (though it is a 'sign')...the reason why I might be getting some Ti is because he often seems to consider and reconsider what he has said, circling back on that same topic. To me it is that introverted thinking that demands the "circling back" to check for logical consistency.

 

[snafupants]

I do agree on the Ne...but then also with snafupants that loving intellectual reading does not necessarily equate Ti (though it is a 'sign')...the reason why I might be getting some Ti is because he often seems to consider and reconsider what he has said, circling back on that same topic. To me it is that introverted thinking that demands the "circling back" to check for logical consistency.

Or introverted sensing, but I generally concur that the "circling back" with the intent of probing for logical consistency is more emblematic of introverted thinking. Does the frequency and proclivity of this behavior reveal which function slot (e.g., first or third) introverted thinking could be in? Shall we just go letter by letter? Assuming intuitive already, that would leave eight types, a few of which could perhaps be offhandedly elided from the stew.

 

[Chronomar]

Or introverted sensing, but I generally concur that the "circling back" with the intent of probing for logical consistency is more emblematic of introverted thinking. Does the frequency of this behavior reveal which function slot introverted thinking could be in? Shall we just go letter by letter, assuming intuitive already. That would leave eight types, a few of which could perhaps be offhandedly elided.

I would say if the circling back behavior is more associated with *facts* being logically consistent that reminds me more of Si, but if it's the over all *idea* then Ti? Perhaps I'm just bullshitting here. I don't know.

Or was Si about the "feel"? Perhaps because INTPs supposedly have both Ti and Si, they're difficult to distinguish.

If anyone had thoughts about what he said those are also welcome. Typing the elusive Fry obviously is as well.

 

[snafupants]

I would say if the circling back behavior is more associated with *facts* being logically consistent that reminds me more of Si, but if it's the over all *idea* then Ti? Perhaps I'm just bullshitting here. I don't know.

Or was Si about the "feel"? Perhaps because INTPs supposedly have both Ti and Si, they're difficult to distinguish.

If anyone had thoughts about what he said those are also welcome. Typing the elusive Fry obviously is as well.

What I meant by circling back in search of logical shortcomings definitely had to do with ideas, which are really internal facts. Normally introverted sensing is excited by something to do with the senses; one might compare a particular sound to another sound heard in childhood, or liken a spicy dish to that entree eaten four months ago while out with Stacy. There's almost an immanent nostalgic theme to introverted sensing, because it primarily has to do with the past and stirring memories. I suppose, especially with MBTI thinkers, it could predominately be about merely amassing facts and details. Your dichotomy between facts and introverted sensing, on one hand, and introverted thinking and ideas basically works.

 

[Chronomar]

What I meant by circling back in search of logical shortcomings definitely had to do with ideas, which are really internal facts. Normally introverted sensing is excited by something to do with the senses; one might compare a particular sound to another sound heard in childhood, or liken a spicy dish to that entree eaten four months ago while out with Stacy. There's almost an immanent nostalgic theme to introverted sensing, because it primarily has to do with the past and stirring memories. I suppose, especially with MBTI thinkers, it could predominately be about merely amassing facts and details. Your dichotomy between facts and introverted sensing, on one hand, and introverted thinking and ideas basically works.

I actually think I somewhat "get" Si now (thank you ^_^). Though I don't know why, I was always very confused as to how it managed to relate to nostalgia...but that it is the internal construct of collected sensory memories that is constantly updated and referred to mentally now seems clear. (unless I am wrong, in which case it was very very murky and I disavow it )

So it's a particular kind of fact that Si deals with, and different kind of facts/ideas Ti deals with, though they interrelate.

 

[snafupants]

I actually think I somewhat "get" Si now (thank you ^_^). Though I don't know why, I was always very confused as to how it managed to relate to nostalgia...but that it is the internal construct of collected sensory memories that is constantly updated and referred to mentally now seems clear. (unless I am wrong, in which case it was very very murky and I disavow it )

So it's a particular kind of fact that Si deals with, and different kind of facts/ideas Ti deals with, though they interrelate.

Disavowing might prove unnecessary: that looks pretty good. Metaphorically, introverted sensing would be this storehouse of facts whereas introverted thinking might be the tenets of science or the rules of a particular game. The latter, introverted thinking, is more an overarching way to break down data, usually with a reductionistic tinge, rather than data itself. Extraverted thinking is more about making snap judgements, quantifying, and speedily synthesizing information, whereas introverted thinking is a slower process wherein all of the pieces are analyzed, compartmentalized, or subdivided usually with the goal of attaining a more comprehensive understanding. That's why an INTJ, who uses extraverted thinking, would be apt to make a decision relatively quickly and dismiss the topic; contrastingly, an INTP would spend months ruminating on her next pair of speakers, comparing tiny features, and so forth.

 

[emRec]

I'm still new to the framework, but here's my understanding.

If you are willing to pin Fry as Ne, then you have to decide whether his other 1st or 2nd function is Fi or Ti. One would expect an Fi to use emotional or moral arguments. But Fry always seems to come from a place of logic.

My take on Si (-S-JJ is that it's something of a grounding function. It secures people firmly in place within their society. They adopt the customs and world-view of the people around them. They are more likely to be religious and/or traditional.

 

[Chronomar]

I always end up seeing INTPs or INTJs (or on some occasions ENTPs, ENTJs, INFPs, or INFJs) everywhere. Perhaps it's the company I keep, those who I try to type, or maybe well all just reflect back on ourselves, imagining everyone else to be similar.


As to stuff Fry was talking about in the clip, the reminder to quietly get on with my life despite obstacles, pains, etc...while still being engaged with other people, with an open and outward view on their lives...which I now realize will in turn encourage them to do the same for me (thus naturally drawing out what my 'problems' are and more healthily allowing others to help me progress) is exactly the one I usually need.

I don't know about other INTPs, but I can guess: we either "quietly get along" and share nothing (think blank stares and few communications from one's self and from all around)...OR we descend into the madness of an undeveloped Fe, which is that horrible "me me me" shit that actually repels most others (except those that feed off of misfortune and dramatics).

But it can be so different on the "developed" side of functioning as an INTP! More akin to the open enthusiasm for life and others, freely shared kindness, and reasoned living I think Fry is describing.

For the cynics, take it from one of your own, you may not always get back what you give out...but that dynamic (what you put in = what you get out) certainly is a main factor in the workings of human community and behavior.

 

[snafupants]

I'm still new to the framework, but here's my understanding.

If you are willing to pin Fry as Ne, then you have to decide whether his other 1st or 2nd function is Fi or Ti. One would expect an Fi to use emotional or moral arguments. But Fry always seems to come from a place of logic.

My take on Si (-S-JJ is that it's something of a grounding function. It secures people firmly in place within their society. They adopt the customs and world-view of the people around them. They are more likely to be religious and/or traditional.

@emRec

Maybe in an ESFJ but generally that description more concisely fits extraverted feeling. There's usually nothing religious or traditional about an introverted sensing INTP on most days.

 

[Proletar]

I'm not impressed...

 

[snafupants]

I'm not impressed...

Who are you?

 

[emRec]

@emRec

Maybe in an ESFJ but generally that description more concisely fits extraverted feeling. There's usually nothing religious or traditional about an introverted sensing INTP on most days.

You are right, I didn't clarify that I meant "as a dominant or auxiliary function", which it is for all -S-J types. As a 3rd or 4th function, like with us, it seems to manifest itself differently, or be overridden by intuition.