You know, I don't think you're cold at all.
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OK, it's on.
EyeSeeCold
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I'll look into it, thx
Oh what the hell, why not.
You seem to be missing an 'm' in your username too.
I like the image, but it seems rather large.
Your new avatar is much more appropriate, yes?
I shall now choose for an avatar comparable in disturbing yet cosy wise old man factor.
Noooooo! I miss your comfortable good-humoured man in a chair avatar. TheGopher also deleted his recently ):
Did that conversation really just happen?
Having a wacom tablet isn't cheating!
You just made me feel bad about myself.
You would know Socionics boy. Take it easy Muchacho.
I am a Zai'nyy who is very in touch with their unconscious other, the Zyy'nai. That is why I seem like an ENTJ, and so different you. I have learned to use and be comfortable/confident with a side of my psyche that is still very alien and very unconscious to you. However when a Zai'nyy does not inhibit themselves from growing, that is the direction they will naturally go.
I've said it once and I will say it again, we did not get it wrong, Jung got it wrong.
Also, I want them to see this discussion. They should see it.
(Cont.)
So Eyeseecold. What happens when your Socionics is publicly defeated? That is where things are going. Are you going to cling onto Jung like a bible beater holding onto creationism? Or will you evolve. Will you let go of Socionics as it is no longer the strongest position in the game, and open your eyes to what else is out there?
That's your call. Until then, I am going to continue my story, I am going to continue my will to shine. See you on the other side.
I've been saying it all along, you want to win. And there is nothing wrong with that, it is human. I want to win to, and I will see to it that I do. However winning requires more than simply believing you are right. You have to SEE that you are right, physically see it, it must be your reality. This is where my confidence comes from, this is why I know that I am right, it is not faith, it is not stubbornness, I am no more stubborn about Pod'lair than you are stubborn about the belief that the sun will rise tomorrow. I see it, it is reality.
(Cont.)
Not only am I the Villain in your story because I champion a position that you have deemed imperfect, but I am getting recognized as a hero for it. That is why we have always but heads, that is why I inspire this desire to defeat me in you. You envy what I have. You want what I have, and the only way to have it is to defeat me and take it, show the world that you clearly have the stronger position, because you have defeated me.
(Cont.)
It bothers you when I talk down to you as if you had no understanding of what you are talking about doesn't it? I know it does. I don't take our arguments seriously, and you don't like that either do you? You absolutely hate being treated like your gifts are not worth anything, like you are not strong in the place you most identify with. I know you hate that, because I hate it. I cannot stand when I am treated like I am not as competent as I am, and I usually push to prove myself in response.
(Cont.)
You have no qualms about my popularity? Well, that is just not true now is it? You see your problem is... You're not being recognized as the hero. I am. In your little story, you are supposed to be the hero, you are supposed to be validated for your competence, not me. I am being respected and validated for the very thing you desire to be commended for, competence, clarity of mind, strong and accurate understanding. But that is not happening.
You are actually not so different. From our argument, it actually does sound like you are an INTP, or a Zai'nyy I should say. Of course I would have to read you to confirm that, but it does seem to be the case from this angle. You have that same will to shine that I have, we all have it, that is why you are here. That is why in your mind pointing out the "Flaws" of Pod'lair and MBTI was the heroic thing to do, and you do heroically fight for your cause even at great adversity from myself and many others on this forum. That is actually rather respectable.
(Cont.)
The result has been quite the opposite of insecurity, I have been validated many times in that what I have is very powerful and a very strong helping factor for people. What I can do can change the world for the better, and the more I do what I do, the more I recognize this world needs to be changed. I have never been more secure in my life.
(Cont.)
Oh! Yay, we are playing the Psychoanalyst game! I wanna play too!
There is one thing you are very right about. I seek recognition for my competence. It is very energizing, and it is one of my heroic drives.
This is not because I am insecure and feel unloved, on the contrary I am very close to my colleagues and I feel very loved. It is because we all as humans have an innate will to shine in our natural gifts, my gift is the gift of perfect understanding, and I have an innate drive to share it. It gives me great surges of energy when I see that it is working and that I am helping people with it. It gives me a very strong sense of purpose, this is what drives me to do what I do.
Do you really think I am an ENTJ? Thanks! That's awesome, that is totally what I was going for. Leave it to a Socionist to prove why typing people via forum communication doesn't work at all.
Ohhh I most certainly am buddy.
I'm just not a lame, overzealous, Overly Dimissive, Overly Logical, Blind, Vai overmodulated, version like you are.
So it would sense that you wouldn't see me like you.
My score on Music Euphoria has suspiciously been deleted! EXPLAIN YOURSELF!
Oh wow that is a lot of information and it makes Socionics seem even more viable. I like how they re-label things.
Interesting, so where can I view the long form of functions? I would also assume this is within Socionics and is not workable within MBTI's system.
Ah, oh interesting. So are those 3 the only known patterns? Interesting how the 4th can be attributed to phobias. So that means my Si helps in my fears somehow I would think.
Oh man I can't afford the plane flight.
Well I am glad you were thinking of me. I am thinking of you right now
Oh first time someone ever asked what I meant instead of jumping to conclusion.
Anyhow, there are patterns in everything. With the tertiary functions they have found out what that pattern is. The hidden agenda forms a type of pattern. I guess by patterns I mean that, according to socionics people with Fe in their tertiary functions, which happens to be ENTp and ESTp have a particular hidden agenda.
Now since each function is shared between two different types in each place between dominate and inferior there should be a shared attribute they have that fits them into a pattern.
Yeah the MBTI doesn't seem like it would work in this, so the hidden agenda works off ones tertiary functions. Does socionics have patterns like this for each function?
So what functions create our hidden agenda? You mention Fi for you. Would it be my Fe or another function?(: I'm glad I could aide you in that manner.
I think socionics is right, I just had the realization that they are spot on about quite a bit of things with emphasis on the hidden agenda part. I had never really thought that until I just took a quick look through my childhood. I guess it is like all ideas, there will be truth found somewhere.The poignancy.
Na all good. *plots*"I'm still open to suggestions, but I won't go venturing out into the woods myself."
I liked that.
Yep, crayons, colours are so much more interesting than my black and whites and less mess too.
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Thanks, I am currently working on a new start of a fictional book with third person perspective since I have not really had much experience with third person writing. I have written about 5 chapters for a fairly nice first person narrated story but I have lost my way in it. I am really just an amateur at everything haha.
Oh yeah, my publicly known side was the artist. I am fairly decent at writing, some have gone as far as say I excelled in it, but that was my imagination they were judging I am sure. Just not a good editor, haha. Was really good at drawing, I became really good with crayons in high school, couldn't afford much else colour wise. Lost most of that skill since I have been teaching myself more science than I usually absorb. But the discovery channel doesn't have much and I don't have the science channel anymore so I am falling back to my artistic self. I am hoping this film class with open me into some other arts since I found I will have some odd project.
Yep, after fighting with myself for a month my inner artist finally defeated my inner scientist. Will be sticking with philosophy in the hopes of someday teaching since that is more and more of what I want to do. But I will be taking my science classes, mainly physics for the fun and for bettering my knowledge of the real world.
In the order in which I meet classes: (1) Astronomy: The Solar System. (2) English 2. (3) Films Study.[goes to my art credit] (4) Psychology, Human Potential. (5) Comparative World Religions.
Because I lack movie knowledge, I will probably have the most difficulty in that class oddly enough, first day we did a movie quote quiz and I didn't get any of them.
Now I am sure that you think I am crazy...
Thanks.But what if you were a part of my imagination!*just saying I will assume you are not*
Been getting ready for school. Finally got everything settled. Classes seem very interesting other than them calling it off because we got a ton of snow! Damn I hate that. They felt it was to dangerous or something.
I have an incredibly high tolerance for lameness.. ;p
There are few things that make me irk or crindge, so no worries.
Who is that in your avatar btw? At first I thought it was Einstein, but now I don't know.
Your arch nemesis... o.o
The circle symbolizes the "area of perception". It is determined by the E/I attribute. E = within circle and I= outside circle. "Outside" actually means inside person but "inside person" means outside surrounding area. Memory information versus surrounding detail information. "Ni information"(don't know what to call it. its seen within but it is abstract.) versus surrounding idea information.
How is your model?
I was thinking the formation of the perception was already explained in the first model via legend(?). The rest of the function charts was suppose to follow with an understanding of said initial chart.
The perspective is third-person. The person is the center rectangle. The lines indicate connection in the form of "seeing" information("n" or "s"). (Mere sight is already relationship) It also means one scenario. (Unless one can perceive two things at the same time).
I assumed that iNtuition always required Sensing for its "base". It needs a "reference" or a "relative to". Specifics and General ideas, I assumed, are relative to ones' system of perception. Therefore, connection is always from S-object to N-object. That is, N requires S but S can stand alone. The "detail" of N or S depends on the focus of perception. Inclination towards N generally heightens N-detail and lessens S-detail.
So it may not necessarily be that one is typed wrong, it may just be that MBTI screwed up the functions a lot?
quick question: socionics is not MBTI, i guess thats only about the 16 types. but is socionic's logic at least the same as thinking and socionic's ethics the same as feeling? (they say its based on the jungian functions, so i guess so?)Thank you!
Be safe (: -
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